Who is the man accused of murdering Whitney Heichel?

Oct 24, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: KBCI CBS 2

New details are emerging about the man accused of sexually abusing and then shooting a young woman to death in a crime that has shocked the community.

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Prime

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#233
Nov 12, 2012
 

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eagleeye2 wrote:
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Jonathan Holt pulled a gun on her and forced her to drive him where he wanted her to go.
Yes, after he was in the car but so what?

That doesn't make him any less your JW brother now does it?

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#234
Nov 12, 2012
 

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eagleeye2 wrote:
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It makes no difference to me what kind of pretense Jonathan Holt was putting up or for how long. Even if everybody in that town thought he was a Witness right up to the minute he did this crime, so what? That doesn't change the truth about him at all.
No, it doesn't, does it? It doesn't change the fact that he was a brother in the midst of the congregation who possessed not only multiple handguns which is itself an spiritual offense, but also child pornography, both a spiritual and criminal offense.

But you assert it makes no difference. I say, it *could* have made the difference between life or death. Just how much did his wife, his best friend, and/or responsible ones in the congregation know about him? Did they know about the handguns? Did they know about the child porn?

Because it's easy just to say 'he was irregular and we barely knew him', isn't it? It's less comfortable to have to face up to the possibility that maybe some sign could/should have been (or was?) seen sooner. This is wildly speculative, of course, but maybe this tragedy could even have been avoided.

Of course, there's always going to be room for a complete con artist to weasel their way into the congregation, or for an otherwise normal appearing member to completely flip out and lose their mind, and no amount of shepherding or protecting can account for every possibility. But were there in fact signs? I think it's a fair question for examination.
eagleeye2 wrote:
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There is no fault in anyone who was deceived by him, whether for a long time or for five minutes. The fault is all on him and him alone. If he made himself appear to be something he was not and people took him at face value, they did nothing wrong.
Well of course they didn't, and I can't speak for anyone else but I for one am in no way insinuating that they did! Whitney did no wrong by giving him a ride on the basis of her knowing him as a brother and neighbor, of course not! The Judds did no wrong by offering him a ride later that day on that same basis, either, of course they didn't! I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with this, but I don't think anyone is trying to say that they are in any way wrong. The poor girl was victimized and murdered. She is not to blame.
eagleeye2 wrote:
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I say his word is worthless and that it is highly unlikely that he at some moment in time changed from being a liar and manipulator and predator and became a reliable, truth-telling , straight-up fact giver. Criminals notoriously tell different versions of their crimes at different times and change details for various reasons.
Yes, and most notoriously, criminals in the act of confessing tend to spill their guts about everything if they believe it will earn them any chance at a more favorable outcome. That's from a criminal standpoint. From a spiritual standpoint, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that he might in fact by trying to give a "full confession" in order to back up a future claim of full repentance. And, as it is, he openly confessed to the possession of handguns and child pornography, and confessed to the killing including details that were verifiable based on the evidence found at the various scenes.

So you can choose to ignore all this, of course you can.
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#235
Nov 12, 2012
 

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RedhorseWoman wrote:
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Not until he was IN the car and they had already driven off. Don't twist it, EE. She was NOT threatened initially. She knew him as a JW brother and she had no reason not to trust him.
Exactly, I knew it was just a matter of time before EE tried to twist what was reported!

You know of course EE will say the report is wrong because she knows exactly what really happened, what with all her psychic abilities and all!

Hoodwinked

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#236
Nov 12, 2012
 
You wish wrote:
If my neighbor, a friendly face and a fellow church member, one who was trusted with the keys to my home when I was on vacation, needed a ride in the morning, I would offer it to them also. That is what people do-and I wouldn't need to have an affair with him or in any other way be inappropriately involved.
exactly.
Hoodwinked

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#237
Nov 12, 2012
 

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eagleeye2 wrote:
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You don't know when he pulled the gun. I received a written report from a close relative in the family that stated he pulled the gun on her in the parking lot. The report stated that he had only been to that Kingdom Hall a few times. He may have been regular somewhere else previously. I don't know.
We all got that email EE and unfortunately it doesn't ring true when you read the actual reports on the evidence pulled from the murders car. I don't think someone who only has been to the KH a few times would have a paper with the title "sound dept" with his name as well the the victims husbands. Nice try...

“John 4:23,24”

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#238
Nov 12, 2012
 

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The fact that Jonathan Holt confessed to possessing guns and pornography does not attest to his honesty.

The police got his computers, his backpack full of pornography and his guns. What was left to confess?

He was naked and openly exposed for what he truly was.
Hoodwinked

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#239
Nov 12, 2012
 

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acrobat wrote:
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Once in the car. He simply asked for a ride to get in the car. She gave him the ride because she knew him to be a brother.
You just can't seem to get this thought straight.
EE only accepts truth if it furthers her agenda.

“John 4:23,24”

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#241
Nov 12, 2012
 

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Hoodwinked wrote:
<quoted text> We all got that email EE and unfortunately it doesn't ring true when you read the actual reports on the evidence pulled from the murders car. I don't think someone who only has been to the KH a few times would have a paper with the title "sound dept" with his name as well the the victims husbands. Nice try...
That may prove that at some time Jonathan Holt was in the sound department. What was the date on the paper?

My understanding was that he had been reproved and lost his privileges a year or so before the murder.

“John 4:23,24”

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#242
Nov 12, 2012
 

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Hoodwinked wrote:
<quoted text> EE only accepts truth if it furthers her agenda.
Everyone has the choice to believe Jonathan Holt or believe what Whitney's family says. I choose Whitney's family.
Hoodwinked

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#243
Nov 12, 2012
 

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RedhorseWoman wrote:
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Of course it's his fault and Whitney did nothing wrong.
What I find difficult to understand is why the JWs are falling all over themselves (you included) to try to deny that he was (perhaps still is) a JW in good standing in the congregation.
Whitney was duped into believing that he was a trusted brother and she did something that she most likely would not have done if he were not someone she knew and trusted.
JWs are no different from any other group. Why must JWs always try to pretend that any of their members who commit heinous acts (and there are quite a few) were not "really" JWs?
that's we're the problem is, they are so quick to distance themselves from those who admit wrongdoing and so quick to defend and stand up for those who deny the crimes they commit?
hMMMMMM

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#244
Nov 12, 2012
 

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Hoodwinked wrote:
<quoted text> We all got that email EE and unfortunately it doesn't ring true when you read the actual reports on the evidence pulled from the murders car. I don't think someone who only has been to the KH a few times would have a paper with the title "sound dept" with his name as well the the victims husbands. Nice try...
Jonathan Holt's Kingdumb Hall wedding photos have been posted all over the internet.
ONLY baptized Jehovah's Witnesses can have a kingdumb Hall wedding ceremony
That case is closed,he is a baptized Jehovah's witness period.
Whitney's husband was NOT baptized so no Kingdumb Hall wedding for her.
Jehovah's Witnesses are such amazing judges of character, no??

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#245
Nov 12, 2012
 

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eagleeye2 wrote:
The fact that Jonathan Holt confessed to possessing guns and pornography does not attest to his honesty.
You're being extremely knuckle-headed. Fine, don't speak to the obvious difference in context between the first two interviews and the final one. Speak to the other details he gave which were confirmed by the physical evidence found.

Good grief, it's a good thing you can never be an elder - you'd never reprove anyone, because you'd never believe their confessions! They'd all be instantly disfellowshipped! lol

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#246
Nov 12, 2012
 
There is absolutely no evidence, period, that Clint Heichel is not one of JWs, and ample photographic and documentary evidence that he is very much a member of the congregation.

Stop the foolishness, stick to the facts.
Hoodwinked

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#247
Nov 12, 2012
 
eagleeye2 wrote:
The fact that Jonathan Holt confessed to possessing guns and pornography does not attest to his honesty.
The police got his computers, his backpack full of pornography and his guns. What was left to confess?
He was naked and openly exposed for what he truly was.
how about the evidence EE?
1. The piece of paper with the title "sound Dept" with his name and the victims husbands name.....same congregation.
2. The brother and sister who found the victims SUV and also knew Holt from the congregation they all attended together.

You don't need to take his word for it EE.
Hoodwinked

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#248
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eagleeye2 wrote:
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That may prove that at some time Jonathan Holt was in the sound department. What was the date on the paper?
My understanding was that he had been reproved and lost his privileges a year or so before the murder.
Even if that is true...it doesn't mean he wasn't still active in the congregation. The victim and her husband trusted him enough to give him a key to their house...think about it!
Hoodwinked

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#249
Nov 12, 2012
 

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acrobat wrote:
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You're being extremely knuckle-headed. Fine, don't speak to the obvious difference in context between the first two interviews and the final one. Speak to the other details he gave which were confirmed by the physical evidence found.
Good grief, it's a good thing you can never be an elder - you'd never reprove anyone, because you'd never believe their confessions! They'd all be instantly disfellowshipped! lol
Unless they were on her side, then they could get away with anything.

“John 4:23,24”

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#250
Nov 12, 2012
 
Hoodwinked wrote:
<quoted text> how about the evidence EE?
1. The piece of paper with the title "sound Dept" with his name and the victims husbands name.....same congregation.
2. The brother and sister who found the victims SUV and also knew Holt from the congregation they all attended together.
You don't need to take his word for it EE.
What was the date on the paper? Was he still in the sound department when he murdered Whitney? A piece of paper can remain in the crevices in a car for quite some time.

My understanding was that he was removed from his privileges and responsibilities quite some time before the murder.

Jonathan Holt's wife was a regular attender at the same congregation with Whitney and her husband. The brother who spoke for the congregation said Jonathan Holt was an irregular attender at the time of the murder. I believe the brother who spoke for the congregation.

Anyway, what does it matter? There is no disputing that he had not been disfellowshipped and did attend some meetings and had been given access to Whitney's apartment (along with his wife who was a regular member of the congregation).

As far as the couple picking up Holt, they may have suspected him and may have been helping capture him. I don't know this and have not heard anyone say this, but that is a possibility. They were involved in the search for Whitney at the time they found him wandering and acting strange.

Time will clarify some of these issues. Some will never be known.

I don't know what important point you think you are making.

“John 4:23,24”

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#251
Nov 12, 2012
 

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Hoodwinked wrote:
<quoted text> Even if that is true...it doesn't mean he wasn't still active in the congregation. The victim and her husband trusted him enough to give him a key to their house...think about it!
I would give a key to a sister who was regularly attending meetings if I had no reason to distrust her husband who was not regularly attending. We don't automatically suspect a person of being a criminal just because they become irregular in their meeting attendance.

“Surprised By Love”

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I see what EE is doing. She can no longer pretend Holt wasnt a JW, so now she is insinuating it was the porn that made Holt into a homicidal maniac, it had NOTHING to do with him being a Jehovah's Witness, he would have been perfectly normal if he had just listened to the brothers and not looked at it

Show me a study that proves porn (even child pornography) is capable of turning a normal well adjusted person into a homicidal maniac. Child pornography is evil and normal, well adjusted men do not want to look at it. The fact that Holt did shows that he was not a normal, healthy individual.
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#253
Nov 12, 2012
 

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eagleeye2 wrote:
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As far as the couple picking up Holt, they may have suspected him and may have been helping capture him. I don't know this and have not heard anyone say this, but that is a possibility. They were involved in the search for Whitney at the time they found him wandering and acting strange.
ROTFLMAO! Are you serious? You know I had a feeling you were going to say exactly that, and I'm not even psychic like you EE!

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