Just curiuos to JW's...IF you would h...

Just curiuos to JW's...IF you would have voted, who would you have voted for?

Created by hollieberry on Nov 7, 2012

54 votes

Click on an option to vote

Barack Obama

Mitt Romney

Tom Hoefling

Merlin Miller

Virgil Goode

Dr. Jill Stein

Rocky Anderson

Gary Johnson

Tom Stevens

Or one of the others

Spike

Uniondale, NY

#62 Nov 12, 2012
FH Chandler wrote:
<quoted text>
Says the dishonest person who just posted an outright lie.
Troll: Your only interest on this post is argument.
Reply: Why shouldn't we argue? What you state, beyond being factually bereft, isn't the subject of THIS thread.
Troll: I guess that makes you the troll.
Reply: Okay, and that just because you said so, too.
Troll: If you have anything substantive to offer, as to why voting is to be preferred to not voting...
Reply: I've already offered that; you responded to it with nonsense about your Brooklyn boogeymen and your conspiracy theory about them owning all the KHs - which they don't.
Troll: Tell us what the benefit to an individual is, in their supporting someone to any office.
Reply: If you really need to be told, you're too ignorant to know.
fh chandler, are you afraid of getting disfellowshiped if you get caught posting here??

“Truth is where you find it”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#63 Nov 12, 2012
FH Chandler wrote:
<quoted text>
Says the dishonest person who just posted an outright lie.
Troll: Your only interest on this post is argument.
Reply: Why shouldn't we argue? What you state, beyond being factually bereft, isn't the subject of THIS thread.
Troll: I guess that makes you the troll.
Reply: Okay, and that just because you said so, too.
Troll: If you have anything substantive to offer, as to why voting is to be preferred to not voting...
Reply: I've already offered that; you responded to it with nonsense about your Brooklyn boogeymen and your conspiracy theory about them owning all the KHs - which they don't.
Troll: Tell us what the benefit to an individual is, in their supporting someone to any office.
Reply: If you really need to be told, you're too ignorant to know.
Imagine the French accent....."I laugh at you, huh!!!:-)))

“A VERY BAD MAN”

Since: Dec 06

Republic of Elbonia

#64 Nov 12, 2012
Wow, your cleverness!
Remnant143999

Albuquerque, NM

#65 Nov 13, 2012
sidgi wrote:
<quoted text>
Talking to you is wearisome. You have neither honesty nor honor in your posting. Your only interest on this post is argument. I guess that makes you the troll. If you have anything substantive to offer, as to why voting is to be preferred to not voting, lets see it. Tell us what the benefit to an individual is, in their supporting someone to any office.
sidgi
If a judge in your community respected the jw blood issue or jw zoneing issues, would you vote for that judge or sit a home and wonder what happened when his/her opponent wins and is against jw issues?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#66 Nov 13, 2012
stup wrote:
<quoted text>
Well then, your organization does not know. All end of the world predictions so far have all been wrong, including theirs.
Maybe the end of world scare tactics are used for membership building in attempt to scare people to fall for them and join under a false sense of urgency. Then using coercion of losing friends and family to keep them trapped.
<quoted text>
Seems to me if you want to have your religious freedoms maintained, you should vote.
Also, it seems to me that if you want your religious freedoms protected, you may re-consider defending your country.
<quoted text>
Is the practice of voting the same as not allowing the preaching of the gospel?
Within your own JW religion, your governing body does not allow preaching anything that they have not concocted either.
I am aware that governments did exist that prohibit christianity.
I am aware of governments that do not allow freedom of beliefs.
Mine isn't one of them.
Yes, you support the government that Jesus is going to destroy. Why would you willingly choose to be against Jesus' rulership, and support the government that is clearly shown to be under the direction of Satan and his demons?

Ephesians 6:11-12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Revelation 16:14

14 for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.

Anyone that supports governments under Satan's control, are in opposition to Jesus' Kingdom government.
stup

Mclean, VA

#67 Nov 13, 2012
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, you support the government that Jesus is going to destroy. Why would you willingly choose to be against Jesus' rulership, and support the government that is clearly shown to be under the direction of Satan and his demons?
Again I will cite Romans 13:
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.
4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.
7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
Ephesians 6:11-12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Ephesians 6:
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
2 “Honor your father and mother”—which is the first commandment with a promise—
3 “so that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth.”
4 Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.
5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.
7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people,
8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
Revelation 16:14
14 for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.
Anyone that supports governments under Satan's control, are in opposition to Jesus' Kingdom government.
Right now, I do not believe my government is under the control of Satan. But when good people fail to take action against evil (like not voting a bad official out of office, not voting on causes or amendments) then Satan can take hold of a government.

And remember...
"Evil Prevails when Good Men Fail To Act"

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#68 Nov 13, 2012
stup wrote:
<quoted text>
Again I will cite Romans 13:
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.
4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.
7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
<quoted text>
Ephesians 6:
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
2 “Honor your father and mother”—which is the first commandment with a promise—
3 “so that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth.”
4 Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.
5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.
7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people,
8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.
<quoted text>
Right now, I do not believe my government is under the control of Satan. But when good people fail to take action against evil (like not voting a bad official out of office, not voting on causes or amendments) then Satan can take hold of a government.
And remember...
"Evil Prevails when Good Men Fail To Act"
And you think that evil isn't prevailing right now?

We are subject to the governments that we live under, but their rulership is coming to an end. So our subjection to them is relative and temporary.

Relative subjection means that as long as man's laws don't conflict with God's Laws, we can obey those laws.

The Revelation prophecy regarding the end times, says that the governments of men are going to devestate all religions, Christian and pagan alike. The governments are going to require that we worship their political system, to be able to be able to buy and to sell. Those that recieve the mark of the beast, will be able to do so, but their receiving that mark identifies them as in direct opposition to Jesus incoming rulership. Check out where those with that mark end up.

Revelation 19:20-21 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

The choice is yours to make. Support Jesus' rulership or support man's rulerships.
stup

Mclean, VA

#69 Nov 14, 2012
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
And you think that evil isn't prevailing right now?
We are subject to the governments that we live under, but their rulership is coming to an end. So our subjection to them is relative and temporary.
Relative subjection means that as long as man's laws don't conflict with God's Laws, we can obey those laws.
The Revelation prophecy regarding the end times, says that the governments of men are going to devestate all religions, Christian and pagan alike. The governments are going to require that we worship their political system, to be able to be able to buy and to sell. Those that recieve the mark of the beast, will be able to do so, but their receiving that mark identifies them as in direct opposition to Jesus incoming rulership. Check out where those with that mark end up.
Revelation 19:20-21 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
The choice is yours to make. Support Jesus' rulership or support man's rulerships.
I believe I will let you go ahead and go chase your end of world fantasies without me. So far to date, all end of world prophesies have proven false. Instead of simply accepting God's Word that no man knows the time of the end, they come up with all sorts of ideas that the world is ending and you have to join their organization "before its too late". So go ahead and follow your demons.

Additionally, instead of learning to love your neighbor as yourself and learning to be a productive member of society you try to gather people to follow your own quest to attract members to your JW society with its own set of rules you must obey to stay part of them. You use end of the world fears and an end of the world urgency as a tool to attract a membership based on fear. Then you go so far a to try to demonize my government, a servant of God, so that I would instead obey your un-elected, self appointed society leadership, rather than my own legitimatly elected officials.

FYI:
James 2:
8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture,“Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right.

Romans 2:
23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?
24 As it is written:“God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”

Romans 13:
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.
4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.

Ephesians 6:
5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#70 Nov 14, 2012
stup wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe I will let you go ahead and go chase your end of world fantasies without me. So far to date, all end of world prophesies have proven false. Instead of simply accepting God's Word that no man knows the time of the end, they come up with all sorts of ideas that the world is ending and you have to join their organization "before its too late". So go ahead and follow your demons.
Additionally, instead of learning to love your neighbor as yourself and learning to be a productive member of society you try to gather people to follow your own quest to attract members to your JW society with its own set of rules you must obey to stay part of them. You use end of the world fears and an end of the world urgency as a tool to attract a membership based on fear. Then you go so far a to try to demonize my government, a servant of God, so that I would instead obey your un-elected, self appointed society leadership, rather than my own legitimatly elected officials.
You misapply the Scriptures.

You've been reading hate literature and can't see the truth of Rev 19, that Jesus is about to remove all of man's corrupt governments.

You willingly choose to oppose Jesus by supporting the governments of men, inspired by Satan and the demons.

Good choice.
Hector

Mexico

#71 Nov 14, 2012
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
You misapply the Scriptures.
You've been reading hate literature and can't see the truth of Rev 19, that Jesus is about to remove all of man's corrupt governments.
You willingly choose to oppose Jesus by supporting the governments of men, inspired by Satan and the demons.
Good choice.
I think he's right on the mark in line with scripture (Romans 13).

On the other hand I don't think he listens to idiots.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#72 Nov 14, 2012
Hector wrote:
<quoted text>
I think he's right on the mark in line with scripture (Romans 13).
On the other hand I don't think he listens to idiots.
Hi Hector,

I don't disagree with Romans 13. As law abiding Christians, we are directed to obey the laws of the country of which we are citizens, to pay taxes, and if necessary, directed to help in an emergency or natural disaster by civil authorities in charge.

These agencies are placed in their positions for our good by God's permission.

But the Scriptures also show us that this is a temporary position, and it also shows the Christian, that their position is only relative, as long as man's laws don't conflict with God's direction for us.

The early Christians didn't get involved in the political element of their day, while under the rule of Rome, and any political unrest that the Jews felt under that yoke of Roman rule.

The early Christians were commanded to offer a pinch of insense upon the alter of the Roman rulers of their day, to show their loyalty to the Roman emperor. Their refusal to do this is why they were thrown to the lions, for the entertainment of the Roman citizens.
stup

San Jose, CA

#73 Nov 14, 2012
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
You misapply the Scriptures.
I'm not trying to convert people to follow the corporate heavies of a publishing organization.

Do you believe Romans 13 contradicts Revelations 19?
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
You've been reading hate literature and can't see the truth of Rev 19, that Jesus is about to remove all of man's corrupt governments.
You think Romans 13 is hate literature?

Do you believe that no man knows the time of the end or do you have some kind of secret power?

You say Jesus is about to remove all of man's corrupt governments? I say is will come again to judge the living and the dead but I have no clue when that will be.

Should we be spending all our time predicting and teaching the end of days which we cannot possibly know or should we do and teach as commanded and love our neighbors as ourselves?
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
You willingly choose to oppose Jesus by supporting the governments of men, inspired by Satan and the demons.
Good choice.
Should I listen to you or should I listen to...

Romans 13:
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#74 Nov 14, 2012
stup wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not trying to convert people to follow the corporate heavies of a publishing organization.
Do you believe Romans 13 contradicts Revelations 19?
<quoted text>
You think Romans 13 is hate literature?
Do you believe that no man knows the time of the end or do you have some kind of secret power?
You say Jesus is about to remove all of man's corrupt governments? I say is will come again to judge the living and the dead but I have no clue when that will be.
Should we be spending all our time predicting and teaching the end of days which we cannot possibly know or should we do and teach as commanded and love our neighbors as ourselves?
<quoted text>
Should I listen to you or should I listen to...
Romans 13:
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
You posted this:

"I believe I will let you go ahead and go chase your end of world fantasies without me. So far to date, all end of world prophesies have proven false. Instead of simply accepting God's Word that no man knows the time of the end, they come up with all sorts of ideas that the world is ending and you have to join their organization "before its too late". So go ahead and follow your demons.
Additionally, instead of learning to love your neighbor as yourself and learning to be a productive member of society you try to gather people to follow your own quest to attract members to your JW society with its own set of rules you must obey to stay part of them. You use end of the world fears and an end of the world urgency as a tool to attract a membership based on fear. Then you go so far a to try to demonize my government, a servant of God, so that I would instead obey your un-elected, self appointed society leadership, rather than my own legitimatly elected officials."

This kind of thinking is hate literature and comes from anti-JW sites.

And when your government goes to war against another government, and orders you to kill fellow Christains in that other country, do you think you are going to be showing love for your neighbor?

I don't believe that Romans 13 conflicts with Revelation 19.

As Christians we have to understand what the positions of the world's rulers are, and that they are all lying in the power of the evil one.

1 John 5:19 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

19 We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Your biased viewpoint dictates that you think we are evil, when in reality, the message of Jesus' rulership will free all of mankind of the oppressive rule that Satan now holds over those that support his worldly system of mankind's governments.

Jesus said that his Kingdom is no part of the world. We show that his rulership will bring eternal blessings for all of mankind that choses his rulership over that of man's corrupt systems.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#75 Nov 14, 2012
stup wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe I will let you go ahead and go chase your end of world fantasies without me. So far to date, all end of world prophesies have proven false. Instead of simply accepting God's Word that no man knows the time of the end, they come up with all sorts of ideas that the world is ending and you have to join their organization "before its too late". So go ahead and follow your demons.
Additionally, instead of learning to love your neighbor as yourself and learning to be a productive member of society you try to gather people to follow your own quest to attract members to your JW society with its own set of rules you must obey to stay part of them.
I do not see those that back various political parties showing love of neighbor. Not at all. It is all sectarian, selfish, and divided on many vital issues. The political parties themselves will tell you that (except they won't confess that they are selfish, but that is readily apparent to me and many, many others). Only God's kingdom can solve mankind's problems, and no one can bring the Kingdom in except God by means of his now-ruling Son, Jesus Christ, who is in heaven.
stup

Mclean, VA

#76 Nov 15, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not see those that back various political parties showing love of neighbor. Not at all. It is all sectarian, selfish, and divided on many vital issues. The political parties themselves will tell you that (except they won't confess that they are selfish, but that is readily apparent to me and many, many others). Only God's kingdom can solve mankind's problems, and no one can bring the Kingdom in except God by means of his now-ruling Son, Jesus Christ, who is in heaven.
Here is Romans 13 again. No sense in arguing about it. We can read this for ourselves.

Romans 13:
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.
4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.
7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments,“You shall not commit adultery,”“You shall not murder,”“You shall not steal,”“You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command:“Love your neighbor as yourself.”
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
11 And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed.
12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.
13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.
14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.
stup

Mclean, VA

#77 Nov 15, 2012
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
You posted this:
"I believe I will let you go ahead and go chase your end of world fantasies without me. So far to date, all end of world prophesies have proven false. Instead of simply accepting God's Word that no man knows the time of the end, they come up with all sorts of ideas that the world is ending and you have to join their organization "before its too late". So go ahead and follow your demons.
Additionally, instead of learning to love your neighbor as yourself and learning to be a productive member of society you try to gather people to follow your own quest to attract members to your JW society with its own set of rules you must obey to stay part of them. You use end of the world fears and an end of the world urgency as a tool to attract a membership based on fear. Then you go so far a to try to demonize my government, a servant of God, so that I would instead obey your un-elected, self appointed society leadership, rather than my own legitimatly elected officials."
This kind of thinking is hate literature and comes from anti-JW sites.
And when your government goes to war against another government, and orders you to kill fellow Christains in that other country, do you think you are going to be showing love for your neighbor?
I don't believe that Romans 13 conflicts with Revelation 19.
As Christians we have to understand what the positions of the world's rulers are, and that they are all lying in the power of the evil one.
1 John 5:19 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
19 We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
Your biased viewpoint dictates that you think we are evil, when in reality, the message of Jesus' rulership will free all of mankind of the oppressive rule that Satan now holds over those that support his worldly system of mankind's governments.
Jesus said that his Kingdom is no part of the world. We show that his rulership will bring eternal blessings for all of mankind that choses his rulership over that of man's corrupt systems.
What you said:
"As Christians we have to understand what the positions of the world's rulers are, and that they are all lying in the power of the evil one".

Romans 13:
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

****

I doubt the tyranny of Emperor Nero and the imperfections the US Government it a fair comparison. Besides, it sounds really ridiculous.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#78 Nov 15, 2012
stup wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is Romans 13 again. No sense in arguing about it. We can read this for ourselves.
Romans 13:
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.
4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.
7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments,“You shall not commit adultery,”“You shall not murder,”“You shall not steal,”“You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command:“Love your neighbor as yourself.”
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
11 And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed.
12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.
13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.
14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.
Well, then, according to your interpretation of this scripture, no voting is required especially since God is appointing the authorities. We can't vote God out of office, can we? And He is the One that has absolute authority. Christians are to be in subjection because God appointed the authorities and we are exhorted to be law-abiding. Nothing whatsoever in those scriptures tells Christians to take sides in the political arena. The things pertaining to behavior speak about a Christian's behavior, not how to vote. I am quite sure that many people who vote in elections are voting for their particular interests, and break many of God's commandments, so this scripture becomes null and void when applied to the electoral process. It is pertaining to Christians that we should be good and do good. One reason that I will not vote in a political election in a political election is that Jesus Christ said of his followers:“They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.”(John 17:14)

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#79 Nov 15, 2012
stup wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is Romans 13 again. No sense in arguing about it. We can read this for ourselves.
Romans 13:
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.
4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.
7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments,“You shall not commit adultery,”“You shall not murder,”“You shall not steal,”“You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command:“Love your neighbor as yourself.”
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
11 And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed.
12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.
13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.
14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.
Politically motivated governments are permitted to exist now by God's hand in order to have some stability in the world. But there is really little stability as far as political intrigue goes. In no way does Romans 13 suggest that Christians are to take sides in political warfare and strife. That theory was developed later, after Constantine and others got a foothold as Christianity was watered down. True Christians put their time and effort in serving God and others to understand what the Bible means, and what the true government of God and by God will do for mankind. Jesus Christ, as king of God's kingdom, will ensure lasting happiness, peace and prosperity for all. Every political party "carouses," and falls prey to greed and other bad things. Christians are to avoid these things.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#80 Nov 15, 2012
stup wrote:
<quoted text>
What you said:
"As Christians we have to understand what the positions of the world's rulers are, and that they are all lying in the power of the evil one".
Romans 13:
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
****
I doubt the tyranny of Emperor Nero and the imperfections the US Government it a fair comparison. Besides, it sounds really ridiculous.
And how many Christians died at the hands of Nero, as compared to the mass slaughters of WW1 and WW2, and all of the other conflicts since then? The allied powers rained down fire bombs on the innocent civilian population of the city of Dresden, for the soul purpose to kill civilains, as many as they could.

There is nothing wrong with being in subjection to the superior authorities, to obey their laws, pay taxes, and help people in the local community if in need. We show respect for civil authorities, police, judicial systems, and any other public officials.

It is a completely different matter to support any given nation on their policies on a national level, as most times those policies endanger and destroy the lives of innocent people of other nations.

I had many friends that went to war for the country, being told they were fighting for freedom. But in reality, they found out that the were fighting for the oil industry and the chemical industry, and the arms industry. Wars are fought because of greed, and have nothing to do with serving God.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#81 Nov 15, 2012
Correction: I was thinking of lives lost, but that should have been "sole purpose".

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