The 144 000 and the Large Crowd are the same, and they are one people.

Posted in the Jehovah's Witness Forum

First Prev
of 4
Next Last
LittleLight

La Possession, Reunion

#1 Nov 4, 2012
The 144 000 and the Large Crowd are the same, and they are one people. I have been understood it.

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#2 Nov 9, 2012
Here ya go Miseracord, use this thread. Noone ever posted on it.

Show us biblical proof that the "other flock" are anything but gentile believers.

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#3 Nov 9, 2012
Ephesians 2:11-19
King James Version (KJV)

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
apple pie

Singapore, Singapore

#4 Nov 10, 2012
Other sheep I have - The Gentiles and Samaritans. As if our Lord had said, Do not imagine that I shall lay down my life for the Jews, exclusively of all other people; no: I shall die also for the Gentiles; for by the grace, the merciful design and loving purpose of God, I am to taste death for every man, Hebrews 2:9; and, though they are not of this fold now, those among them that believe shall be united with the believing Jews, and made one fold under one shepherd, Ephesians 2:13-17.
LittleLight

Reunion

#5 Nov 12, 2012
Revelation 7 : 17-16 : And he said to me:“These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.That is why they are before the throne of God; and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them.They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down upon them nor any scorching heat,17because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them, and will guide them to fountains of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”

Only the priests have served in the temple. The large crowd is serving im the temple,(and not in the the courtyard that is outside the temple, the bible do not says that...). The large crowd is priests.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#6 Nov 12, 2012
LittleLight wrote:
The 144 000 and the Large Crowd are the same, and they are one people. I have been understood it.
It looks like two separate groups. One specifically from Israel, and the other comprised of all of the nations.

4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:

9 After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,

sidgi
stup

Anonymous Proxy

#7 Nov 12, 2012
LittleLight wrote:
The 144 000 and the Large Crowd are the same, and they are one people. I have been understood it.
It was a 1930's membership drive during Judge Rutherford's term as head honcho of the WTS. When membership went above 144000 he came up with the 144000 big and little flock so he didn't have to admit his deception.
This was also back in the 1930's when the WTS said they were speaking for God.
OOOPs.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#8 Nov 12, 2012
Regardless of whether or not you believe that the 144,000 are comprised of early Christians and early modern day annointed JWs, it's patently clear that there are two distinct groups referred to in Revelation: the 144,000, and the great multitude. They are not the same, no matter who you want to say represents these two groups today on earth (or heaven).

Since: Feb 09

Raleigh, NC

#9 Nov 12, 2012
LittleLight wrote:
The 144 000 and the Large Crowd are the same, and they are one people. I have been understood it.
It may help you to better understand who exactly the hundred forty four thousand are by looking at some key verses.

Let's begin with the opening of Revelation chapter 7:

1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.
----

From this it sounds like it speaking of the entire globe of the earth. But notice how Young's translates that scripture:

1 And after these things I saw four messengers, standing upon the four corners of the land, holding the four winds of the land, that the wind may not blow upon the land, nor upon the sea, nor upon any tree;
----

It replaces the word 'earth' with 'land' and this more accurately defines the situation since this land is actually the land of Judah or Judea aka the land of Israel.

How do we know this? Because it's the focal point of God's prophecy with regard to Daniel's people in the time of the end. The prophets all pointed to a time of great tribulation in the land of Israel. Even Jesus of this tribulation of the Jews followed by it's destruction by the Wild Beast of the Roman Empire.

The hundred and forty four thousand WERE those chosen and sealed ones living in Israel that would heed Jesus warning and escape to Pella and other places whenever they saw the beast outside Jerusalem. When the beast was not or went away mysteriously, they all escaped. When the beast returned those who had not been chosen and sealed were destroyed by the force of the Romans.

Because of their faith in the Son of God in the face of death, their natural lives were spared the terrible destruction that that many of the other Jews experienced. More importantly it guaranteed their place in heaven with God and Jesus as they neared the end of their biological lives.

Since: Feb 09

Raleigh, NC

#10 Nov 13, 2012
LittleLight wrote:
The 144 000 and the Large Crowd are the same, and they are one people. I have been understood it.
People are often amazed at similarities of the Revelation prophecy with the prophecies of Ezekiel and Daniel. That's because they are in some respects the SAME prophecy! The focal point is always Daniel's people the Jews and what will happen to them in the days after Jesus comes to earth to be born, lived and crucified in behalf of mankind.

Review this information:

http://mikeblume.com/symbrev.htm
Melito of Sadis

Europe

#11 Nov 15, 2012
144 stand with lamb on mt Zion keep following the lamb nomatter where he goes John was one of them yet when askd as to the identity of "great crowd" he didnt know. The 144 and great crowd are 2 groups. As to how the WTS explains these groups and how that differs to certain posters on this site is a matter of whom (thru xperience) you deem to be right

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#12 Nov 15, 2012
CIA Free wrote:
<quoted text>
It may help you to better understand who exactly the hundred forty four thousand are by looking at some key verses.
Let's begin with the opening of Revelation chapter 7:
1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.
----
From this it sounds like it speaking of the entire globe of the earth. But notice how Young's translates that scripture:
1 And after these things I saw four messengers, standing upon the four corners of the land, holding the four winds of the land, that the wind may not blow upon the land, nor upon the sea, nor upon any tree;
----
It replaces the word 'earth' with 'land' and this more accurately defines the situation since this land is actually the land of Judah or Judea aka the land of Israel.
How do we know this? Because it's the focal point of God's prophecy with regard to Daniel's people in the time of the end. The prophets all pointed to a time of great tribulation in the land of Israel. Even Jesus of this tribulation of the Jews followed by it's destruction by the Wild Beast of the Roman Empire.
The hundred and forty four thousand WERE those chosen and sealed ones living in Israel that would heed Jesus warning and escape to Pella and other places whenever they saw the beast outside Jerusalem. When the beast was not or went away mysteriously, they all escaped. When the beast returned those who had not been chosen and sealed were destroyed by the force of the Romans.
Because of their faith in the Son of God in the face of death, their natural lives were spared the terrible destruction that that many of the other Jews experienced. More importantly it guaranteed their place in heaven with God and Jesus as they neared the end of their biological lives.
Your theory doesn't hold up at all.

The Revelation was given to John some thirty years after your supposed events took place. Also, all of the events of the Revelation were things that would take place in the future, not the past.

Revelation 1:1
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Revelation of Jesus Christ
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,

The Revelation is prophecy of the future events, not a history of the past. Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 C.E.

John received the Revelation around 96 to 98 C.E.

Better go back and rethink.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#13 Nov 15, 2012
CIA Free wrote:
<quoted text>
It may help you to better understand who exactly the hundred forty four thousand are by looking at some key verses.
Let's begin with the opening of Revelation chapter 7:
1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.
----
From this it sounds like it speaking of the entire globe of the earth. But notice how Young's translates that scripture:
1 And after these things I saw four messengers, standing upon the four corners of the land, holding the four winds of the land, that the wind may not blow upon the land, nor upon the sea, nor upon any tree;
----
It replaces the word 'earth' with 'land' and this more accurately defines the situation since this land is actually the land of Judah or Judea aka the land of Israel.
How do we know this? Because it's the focal point of God's prophecy with regard to Daniel's people in the time of the end. The prophets all pointed to a time of great tribulation in the land of Israel. Even Jesus of this tribulation of the Jews followed by it's destruction by the Wild Beast of the Roman Empire.
The hundred and forty four thousand WERE those chosen and sealed ones living in Israel that would heed Jesus warning and escape to Pella and other places whenever they saw the beast outside Jerusalem. When the beast was not or went away mysteriously, they all escaped. When the beast returned those who had not been chosen and sealed were destroyed by the force of the Romans.
Because of their faith in the Son of God in the face of death, their natural lives were spared the terrible destruction that that many of the other Jews experienced. More importantly it guaranteed their place in heaven with God and Jesus as they neared the end of their biological lives.
I checked many translations, and they all rendered it as "earth". I even checked a few Jewish translations, and they had "earth" at Rev 7:1

Your theory has little backing.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#14 Nov 15, 2012
LittleLight wrote:
Revelation 7 : 17-16 : And he said to me:“These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.That is why they are before the throne of God; and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them.They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down upon them nor any scorching heat,17because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them, and will guide them to fountains of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”
Only the priests have served in the temple. The large crowd is serving im the temple,(and not in the the courtyard that is outside the temple, the bible do not says that...). The large crowd is priests.
Where are these ones when God spreads "his tent over them"?

Where is the temple when this occurs?

You might want to change your viewpoint.

Since: Feb 09

Raleigh, NC

#15 Nov 15, 2012
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
Your theory doesn't hold up at all.
The Revelation was given to John some thirty years after your supposed events took place. Also, all of the events of the Revelation were things that would take place in the future, not the past.
Revelation 1:1
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Revelation of Jesus Christ
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,
The Revelation is prophecy of the future events, not a history of the past. Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 C.E.
John received the Revelation around 96 to 98 C.E.
Better go back and rethink.
Then show me proof that the Revelation of Jesus Christ was given to John around 96 to 98.

Please respond asap. Thanks.

Since: Feb 09

Raleigh, NC

#16 Nov 15, 2012
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
I checked many translations, and they all rendered it as "earth". I even checked a few Jewish translations, and they had "earth" at Rev 7:1
Your theory has little backing.
Before you get in over your head, let me mention that the apostle John was told to measure the temple in Revelation chapter 11. Which temple is this?

Remember that the first temple was destroyed by the Babylonians. John obviously wasn't told to measure it since it no longer existed. What temple then would John have been told to measure?

If John was told to measure the second temple, that means that John got these orders to do so BEFORE the second temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD!

Are you beginning to get the picture yet? No one today can say for sure when John got the Revelation. But it had to be before the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. Feel free to share this with all your friends.
Dalai Lama

Middletown, NY

#17 Nov 16, 2012
144000 is the first 6 digits of Cayman Islands bank account of the governing body.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#18 Nov 16, 2012
CIA Free wrote:
<quoted text>
Then show me proof that the Revelation of Jesus Christ was given to John around 96 to 98.
Please respond asap. Thanks.
The entire religous community sets the time line of John's receiving the Revelation while he was on the Isle of Patmos at around 96.C.E.

You are the one suggesting a much earlier date, so the burden of proof is upon you.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#19 Nov 16, 2012
CIA Free wrote:
<quoted text>
Before you get in over your head, let me mention that the apostle John was told to measure the temple in Revelation chapter 11. Which temple is this?
Remember that the first temple was destroyed by the Babylonians. John obviously wasn't told to measure it since it no longer existed. What temple then would John have been told to measure?
If John was told to measure the second temple, that means that John got these orders to do so BEFORE the second temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD!
Are you beginning to get the picture yet? No one today can say for sure when John got the Revelation. But it had to be before the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. Feel free to share this with all your friends.
John was on Patmos as he received this Revelation. How could he have measured the actual temple in Jerusalem?

When the angel measures the city in Revelation 21, how large was the city? Was it a literal city, or was this city symbolic in meaning?
religion scholar

Mount Prospect, IL

#20 Nov 16, 2012
Dalai Lama wrote:
144000 is the first 6 digits of Cayman Islands bank account of the governing body.
Thats how many young ladds the GB has molested.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 4
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Jehovah's Witness Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Parroting “abstain from blood” without accurate... 10 min little lamb 3
JW's say that December 25th is a wrong date 10 min pcloadletter 117
HEY Pittsburgh! What Happened?! (Nov '13) 12 min Stingo 884
LOL let's discuss ACTS 20:30 14 min little lamb 5
Will Becoming a JW Lead to Happiness? 19 min little lamb 9
Organ transplant new light explained! Possibly! 25 min Teleologist 219
JW.org opened my eyes to the truth 25 min SOS 152
More Changes Coming 28 min Aneirin 202
Christmas (Nov '13) 1 hr MarcelB 1,808
More from around the web