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Since: Feb 10

La Marque, TX

#1 Jun 4, 2014
Just saw an interesting question posed on another site and thought you guys could chime in on it.

"WHY CANT SCRIPTURES BE USED TO ENCOURAGE SOMEONE WHO IS

DISFELLOWSHIPPED?"

What scriptures support this logic?

ready, set....GO!

“EXPOSING CHURCHianity!”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#2 Jun 4, 2014
They can and SHOULD be.
I do.

Why? Still have those over-sized Judge's Robes on?

Since: Feb 10

La Marque, TX

#3 Jun 4, 2014
the Mad JW wrote:
They can and SHOULD be.
I do.
Why? Still have those over-sized Judge's Robes on?
You know, Mad....I thought it was actually a great question. Anyone who is or who has ever been a Jehovah's Witness knows that using scriptures with someone who is disfellowshiped is a no-no. But I have never stopped to ask why? Where is the scriptural support for such a stand? Im afraid there isn't any.
little lamb

South Yarra, Australia

#4 Jun 4, 2014
Proverbs 12:18

'The words of the reckless pierce like swords, but the tongue of the wise brings healing.'

“EXPOSING CHURCHianity!”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#5 Jun 4, 2014
Rules of man.
Every group has 'em- even US, Icaris.

“BIBLE TRUTHS *NEVER* CHANGE”

Since: Aug 09

LET GO AND LET GOD

#6 Jun 7, 2014
Icaris wrote:
<quoted text>
You know, Mad....I thought it was actually a great question. Anyone who is or who has ever been a Jehovah's Witness knows that using scriptures with someone who is disfellowshiped is a no-no. But I have never stopped to ask why? Where is the scriptural support for such a stand? Im afraid there isn't any.
True....it has always been accepted by those following the WT leaders.....that when speaking with DFed ones about "important family matters"....that NO scriptures or bible references are allowed.

Wouldn't you think that IF the DFed one is so disposed.....that hearing scripture may very well help him to return to the WT fold? Isn't this the aim of every JW in good standing? I never stopped to think about this before....but you have made a very good point.
Gold Dust Women

Wausau, WI

#7 Jun 9, 2014
Excellent post....
keep them comin..

Since: Feb 10

La Marque, TX

#8 Jun 17, 2014
Another thing that accured to me is....If the disfellowshipped individual requested an elder to pray over him....it would be denied. Again....what would be the scriptural principal for this?

These are things that I am desturbed about

where...[WHY] is this being done?

Show me the scriptures that support such claousness and harshness?

I can understand if the dis'fed requested NO SCRIPTURES TO BE READ/ NO PRAYERS OFFERED....but from my understanding, even if they were to request and seek such help, it would be denied them. This is horrible.

Are there any Witnesses on site that can answer these questions. Im unable to find the scriptures that would justify the elders taking such harsh actions against one that is spiritually sick?

Since: Feb 10

La Marque, TX

#9 Jun 17, 2014
pushing this thread to the top...its certainly worthy of descussion.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#10 Jun 17, 2014
little lamb wrote:
Proverbs 12:18
'The words of the reckless pierce like swords, but the tongue of the wise brings healing.'
. We are to incite to love and fine works.. yes.... your scripture is true... What comes out of some mouths.. are insults ..innuendos.. unfounded accusations.. These things are the reckless ... none thought out words that bring people down.. Not just those that they were said to ..but those that hear them.. having Empathy for others..can be a detriment to a person himself..[ as Jesus took on the sins of the world.. We to ..carry the pain and anguish of others ]

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#11 Jun 17, 2014
If a person is df, but inclined to return, how are they supposed to regain their strength if they can't disucss anything spiritually or have an elder pray for them?
It is like telling a person that you have been starving to get up and walk on his own, when he is too weak to do so.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#12 Jun 17, 2014
The disfellowshipping process is sold as discipline from Jehovah when I actuality it is a punishment process.

Like if a prison inmate misbehaves he is thrown into solitary confinement. Disfellowshipping is a form of solitary confinement. The punished one is forced to miss having any human contact, knowing that jw's are not allowed to to have any worldly associations, so the punished one ends up very lonely and will work to become reinstated. The elders can't have witnesses witnessing to this one because then they wouldn't be so lonely.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#13 Jun 17, 2014
Icaris wrote:
Just saw an interesting question posed on another site and thought you guys could chime in on it.
"WHY CANT SCRIPTURES BE USED TO ENCOURAGE SOMEONE WHO IS
DISFELLOWSHIPPED?"
What scriptures support this logic?
ready, set....GO!
The reason we use the word DISFELLOWSHIPPED is because it best describes what the Bible instructs us to do with unrepentant sinners:

*** Rom 16:17 Now I beg you, brothers, look out for those who are causing the divisions and occasions of stumbling, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and turn away from them.

*** 2 Th 3:6 Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother who walks in rebellion, and not after the tradition which they received from us.

*** Titus 3:10,11 Avoid a factious man after a first and second warning; knowing that such a one is perverted, and sins, being self-condemned.

*** 1 Cor 5:11-13 But as it is, I wrote to you not to associate with anyone who is called a brother who is a sexual sinner, or covetous, or an idolater, or a slanderer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner. Do not even eat with such a person. For what have I to do with also judging those who are outside? Do you not judge those who are within? But those who are outside, God judges. "Put away the wicked man from among yourselves."

Perhaps you think the Bible is wrong?

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#14 Jun 17, 2014
Icaris wrote:
Another thing that accured to me is....If the disfellowshipped individual requested an elder to pray over him....it would be denied. Again....what would be the scriptural principal for this?
These are things that I am desturbed about
where...[WHY] is this being done?
Show me the scriptures that support such claousness and harshness?
I can understand if the dis'fed requested NO SCRIPTURES TO BE READ/ NO PRAYERS OFFERED....but from my understanding, even if they were to request and seek such help, it would be denied them. This is horrible.
Are there any Witnesses on site that can answer these questions. Im unable to find the scriptures that would justify the elders taking such harsh actions against one that is spiritually sick?
.
. first off.. there are people who do things that are wrongs...(So to speak) Not things in the list of things that GOD abhors .. Yet.. things that they need to know..( be disciplined for ) These things are subject to repentance and forgiveness..
I believe the so call disfellowshiping ..the putting the person..out of the Congregation.. So to speak and handing them over to Satan as the bible states.. Is not a repentant ..forgivable sin..as GOD ..abhors it.. AND scripture says... Those people knew it was wrong...but chose to spit in God's face ..and do it anyway.. These people.. Made their choice.. It wasn't a mistake... And these are the people the bible says to not even share a meal with.. In the past.. people were disfellowshipped for a good many ..trumped up reasons... The Church may have cut down on that a bit... don't know ..nor do I care...
It is my believe that those that have spit in God's face... Should not be allowed back into the cong...and YET ... they have been...
it is an observable thing.that the Church.. cow tows to the law of the land in some of those situations.. YET! they continually tell their members they must obey God as ruler..rather then men.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#15 Jun 17, 2014
But I will ad that I made my decision to deal with the disassociation over 20 years ago. So the jw's I knew back then, they will give me a friendly hello and such. New jw's I meet through family are willing to converse with me and such. It's been explained to me that enough time has passed that I refuse to be a jw that I am now considered to have never been a jw at all, so it's ok to talk to me. Although I did have one jw invite me to the pagan ritual a couple years ago, but he didn't know me that much back then.

Since: Feb 10

La Marque, TX

#16 Jun 18, 2014
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>

*** Rom 16:17 Now I beg you, brothers, look out for those who are causing the divisions and occasions of stumbling, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and turn away from them
Greetings Aneirin, heres how the commentary bible words it:

"And now I make one more appeal, my dear brothers and sisters. Watch out for people who cause
[divisions and upset people's faith]-
[by teaching things contrary to what you have been taugh.]
Stay away from them."

This scripture is speaking of apostates who teach a different doctrin other than the one that was taught by the Apostals, followers of Jesus christ. In no way do this scripture apply to those who have been disfellowshipped for being spiritually weak.
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>*** 2 Th 3:6 Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother who walks in rebellion, and not after the tradition which they received from us.
This scripture is interesting. Heres how the American standard bible puts it:

Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us.

This scripture speaks of those who actively and stubronly persue a life that is against the moral code of God's word the bible. Not of those who are repentant...and forced to demonstrate such repentence by showing up repeatedly to every single meeting being looked down upon by those who call themselves "brothers." In fact...an unrepentant individual wouldn't even attend the hall in the first place.
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>*** Titus 3:10,11 Avoid a factious man after a first and second warning; knowing that such a one is perverted, and sins, being self-condemned.
The standard bible: As for a person who[ stirs up division], after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, 11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

What does that scripture have to do with the repentant sinner?
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>*** 1 Cor 5:11-13 But as it is, I wrote to you not to associate with anyone who is called a brother who is a sexual sinner, or covetous, or an idolater, or a slanderer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner. Do not even eat with such a person. For what have I to do with also judging those who are outside? Do you not judge those who are within? But those who are outside, God judges. "Put away the wicked man from among yourselves."
Perhaps you think the Bible is wrong?
Dont misunderstand me....I agree with the act of disfellowshipping an individual who deleberately chooses to continue to walk in the path of sin after being warned numerous times regarding the danger of his course. But that does not mean that we should [ NO LONGER] encourage that person to return to God as well as express our deep desire to see him correct his course. Not treat such an individual ass though they are "Dead".

There is a fine line between discipline a person...and simply getting rid them entirely. I've noticed that many brothers and sisters are quick to quote 1cor 5: 11-13.

Yet conviently forget about 2Cor 2:6-8.

"6 The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient. 7 Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. 8 I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him."
(((perhaps you think the bible is wrong?)))

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#17 Jun 18, 2014
Icaris wrote:
Just saw an interesting question posed on another site and thought you guys could chime in on it.
"WHY CANT SCRIPTURES BE USED TO ENCOURAGE SOMEONE WHO IS
DISFELLOWSHIPPED?"
What scriptures support this logic?
ready, set....GO!
My reasoning would be they have been handed over to satan. Anyone who has been disfellowshipped has already had ample encouragement from the bible, they didn't listen or rejected it.
(1 Timothy 1:19, 20).&#8239;.&#8239;.ho lding faith and a good conscience, which some have thrust aside and have experienced shipwreck concerning [their] faith. 20&#8239;Hy·me·nae&#82 42;us and Alexander belong to these, and I have handed them over to Satan that they may be taught by discipline not to blaspheme.
Eloise

Lexington, KY

#18 Jun 18, 2014
Duh-boy wrote:
<quoted text>
My reasoning would be they have been handed over to satan. Anyone who has been disfellowshipped has already had ample encouragement from the bible, they didn't listen or rejected it.
(1 Timothy 1:19, 20).&#8239;.&#8239;.ho lding faith and a good conscience, which some have thrust aside and have experienced shipwreck concerning [their] faith. 20&#8239;Hy·me·nae&#82 42;us and Alexander belong to these, and I have handed them over to Satan that they may be taught by discipline not to blaspheme.
Disagree with their false teachings and you will get handed over to Satan.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#19 Jun 18, 2014
Eloise wrote:
<quoted text>
Disagree with their false teachings and you will get handed over to Satan.
I'm pretty sure Hy·me·naeus and Alexander thought they were disagreeing with false teachings as well. Plus you have to do a lot more than simply disagree. How would anyone know you disagree unless you start flapping your mouth!? That's when you are on the verge if not already causing division.

Since: Feb 07

RI

#20 Jun 18, 2014
emmaswish wrote:
If a person is df, but inclined to return, how are they supposed to regain their strength if they can't disucss anything spiritually or have an elder pray for them?
It is like telling a person that you have been starving to get up and walk on his own, when he is too weak to do so.
That is always the way it has been, hasn't it? When a person is down and needs the most help and support, that's when the JWs turn their backs on that person and tell them that they need to "fix themselves" before they are allowed any support or help.

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