Another Jehovah's Witnesses sex scandal

Another Jehovah's Witnesses sex scandal

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smoke

Durham, UK

#3 Dec 14, 2006
Why is it that sex scandals attract themselves to Jehovah's Witnesses especially child abuse. What do you know about Monarch programming or MK-Ultra?

Christian peper if you have any further articles about scandals and mind control by either JW and their counsins mormons please give me their links.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#4 Dec 14, 2006
The JW's love to boast that they throw such ones out of the "clean" organization.
What JW's do not seem to understand is that these pedophiles and child abusers along with those who have defrauded others (like the 2 elders in Montana who bilked a sister out of her huge ranch) and all the pioneers who are DF'd for immorality did these acts while they were IN the organization.

So mmuch for the JW's being a "clean" religion, huh.
David - New York - NY

Brooklyn, NY

#5 Dec 14, 2006
Setfree wrote:
The JW's love to boast that they throw such ones out of the "clean" organization.
What JW's do not seem to understand is that these pedophiles and child abusers along with those who have defrauded others (like the 2 elders in Montana who bilked a sister out of her huge ranch) and all the pioneers who are DF'd for immorality did these acts while they were IN the organization.
So mmuch for the JW's being a "clean" religion, huh.
But the fact is that those individuals are now disfellowshiped, excommunicated from the congregation, therefore, the "leaven" has been taken out. Compare with other churches. Well-known Pentecostal pastor that have been practicing homosexuality for years. Yet since "they are still saved anyway" they cannot be expelled from the churches. What about the priests the confessed to molesting children multiple times. They were merely transfered from parish to parish so that they can abuse other children. If a Witness elder were to admit that he abused children, who would be removed from his position, most likely be expelled, and will not be protected by the congregation from criminal prosecution. The BTK mass murderer was a highly respected evangelical Lutheran church leader who speak with such glee in the court hearing, describing how he murdered his victims. He is still considered a member of the church. The difference between the Witnesses and the other churches, is that the Witnesses get rid of the unrepentant contaminators, while most of the churches do nothing.
Christian Peper

United States

#6 Dec 14, 2006
GOD I HATE THE GOV!!!!!!!!!! Our government is still involved in mind control. The Mk ultra program in the 60’s and 70’s is still practiced but now it is far more secret. Both the jw cult and the Mormons are satanic cults that practice mind control. Our CIA uses both cults to insert spies into foreign countries. Our gov still also uses mind control on the people but is far more sophisticated now. The two cults and our gov now work together. They are the same beast system.
David - New York - NY

Brooklyn, NY

#7 Dec 14, 2006
But the fact is that those individuals are now disfellowshiped, excommunicated from the congregation, therefore, the "leaven" has been taken out. Compare with other churches. Well-known Pentecostal pastors that have been practicing homosexuality for years. Yet since "they are still saved anyway" they cannot be expelled from the churches. What about the priests that confessed to molesting children multiple times. They were merely transfered from parish to parish so that they can abuse other children. If a Witness elder were to admit that he abused children, he would be immediately removed from his position, most likely be expelled, and will not be protected by the congregation from criminal prosecution. The BTK mass murderer was a highly respected evangelical Lutheran church leader who spoke with such glee in the court hearing, describing how he murdered his victims. He is still considered a member of the church. The difference between the Witnesses and the other churches, is that the Witnesses get rid of the unrepentant contaminators, while most of the churches do nothing.
Moishe

AOL

#8 Dec 15, 2006
"If a Witness elder were to admit that he abused children, he would be immediately removed from his position, most likely be expelled, and will not be protected by the congregation from criminal prosecution."

David, That assumes a JW tells the truth about an accusation of sexual molestation. By these crimes are done with no witnesses other than the victim and perpetrator. Who do the elders want to believe - a 9 year old kid or one of their own? Fact is, they are being protected. Parents are told to not go to the police and to wait on Jehovah to fix things. Meanwhile these sick perverts move to another KH and molest new children all over again. It is obvious that the God of the KH does not have the ability to warn their leaders about secret pedophiles hdiding in their congregations.
RedhorseWoman

United States

#9 Dec 15, 2006
David, as Moishe pointed out, the key issue within the JW organization is that the accused molester must CONFESS that he has molested children for any action to be taken against him....and THAT is the problem.

Most molesters will proclaim innocence, and, by doing so, they retain full privileges within the congregation and their victims are warned not to "slander" this poor innocent man or THEY could face disfellowshipping.

One JW ministerial servant from my home congregation was finally brought to justice by two of his victims who had left the JW organization. He had been before the elders multiple times for accusations of molestation, but each time he proclaimed his innocence.

His molesting of JW children went on for almost 40 years, and he maintained his position as ministerial servant in several congregations.

The JWs are no more "clean" than any other group, and now that the problem has been brought to light, they are spending most of their time denying that there IS a problem.
David - New York - NY

Brooklyn, NY

#10 Dec 15, 2006
Moishe wrote:
"If a Witness elder were to admit that he abused children, he would be immediately removed from his position, most likely be expelled, and will not be protected by the congregation from criminal prosecution."
David, That assumes a JW tells the truth about an accusation of sexual molestation. By these crimes are done with no witnesses other than the victim and perpetrator. Who do the elders want to believe - a 9 year old kid or one of their own? Fact is, they are being protected. Parents are told to not go to the police and to wait on Jehovah to fix things. Meanwhile these sick perverts move to another KH and molest new children all over again. It is obvious that the God of the KH does not have the ability to warn their leaders about secret pedophiles hdiding in their congregations.
The e January 22, 1985 issue of Awake! says the flwg.:

"First, the child and other children too MUST BE PROTECTED FROM ANY FURTHER ABUSE. This must be done, whatever the cost. In many cases the accused molester will have to be confronted. But whatever it takes, it is important that the child should feel confident that the molester will never be able to get at her (or him) again.
Second, the child must be given a lot of love and emotional support. Parents must make it very clear that the little victim is not to blame. The crime and anything that happens as a result of it EVEN IF A CLOSE RELATIVE GOES TO PRISON is not her (or his) fault. But that reassurance will have to be given many times, so that the victim comes to believe it and to believe that the parents believe it too!" (Emphasis mine) The October 8th 1993 issue of Awake! says "Tragically, adult society often unwittingly collaborates with child abusers. How so? By refusing to be aware of this danger, by fostering a hush-hush attitude about it, by believing oft-repeated myths. Ignorance, misinformation, and silence give safe haven to abusers, not their victims.
However, Time noted that this conspiracy is crumbling at last. Why? In a word, education. It is as Asiaweek magazine put it:'All experts agree that the best defence against child abuse is public awareness'. To defend their children, parents must understand the realities of the threat. DON'T BE LEFT IN THE DARK BY MISCONCEPTIONS THAT PROTECT CHILD ABUSERS AND NOT THE CHILDREN.
SOME LEGAL EXPERTS ADIVSE REPORT THE ABUSE TO THE AUTHORITIES AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. In some lands the legal system may require this. But in other places the legal system may offer little hope of successful prosecution." (Emphasis mine) And the January 1, 1997 Watchtower ((pages 26-29)says:
"Depending on the law of the land where he lives, the molester may well have to serve a prison term or face other sanctions from the State. THE CONGREGATION [OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES] WILL NOT PROTECT HIM FROM THIS." (Again, emphasis is mine)

Those journals, published by the Christian publishing arm of Jehovah's Witnesses, clearly state their position. Also, even if one denies being an abuser, the victims have every right to report for the police, and elders do strongly encourage parents to do so as soon as possible. Elders themselves can report to the authorities, whether or not it is required in the jurisdiction they reside in. Additionaly, if evidence such as DNA or physical evidence, or medical evidence indicate that one has abused a child, then that will be used as a 2nd witness, and the elder or individual involved in abusing children will most likely face expulsion from the congregation. If one was an elder, he will never again be allowed to serve as an elder in the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses. Witnesses, in fact, were the first Christian group to disqualify anyone a pastoral or eldership if he is a pedophile.

David - New York - NY

Brooklyn, NY

#11 Dec 15, 2006
Moishe

The e January 22, 1985 issue of Awake! says the flwg.:

"First, the child and other children too MUST BE PROTECTED FROM ANY FURTHER ABUSE. This must be done, whatever the cost. In many cases the accused molester will have to be confronted. But whatever it takes, it is important that the child should feel confident that the molester will never be able to get at her (or him) again.
Second, the child must be given a lot of love and emotional support. Parents must make it very clear that the little victim is not to blame. The crime and anything that happens as a result of it EVEN IF A CLOSE RELATIVE GOES TO PRISON is not her (or his) fault. But that reassurance will have to be given many times, so that the victim comes to believe it and to believe that the parents believe it too!" (Emphasis mine) The October 8th 1993 issue of Awake! says "Tragically, adult society often unwittingly collaborates with child abusers. How so? By refusing to be aware of this danger, by fostering a hush-hush attitude about it, by believing oft-repeated myths. Ignorance, misinformation, and silence give safe haven to abusers, not their victims.
However, Time noted that this conspiracy is crumbling at last. Why? In a word, education. It is as Asiaweek magazine put it:'All experts agree that the best defence against child abuse is public awareness'. To defend their children, parents must understand the realities of the threat. DON'T BE LEFT IN THE DARK BY MISCONCEPTIONS THAT PROTECT CHILD ABUSERS AND NOT THE CHILDREN.
SOME LEGAL EXPERTS ADIVSE REPORT THE ABUSE TO THE AUTHORITIES AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. In some lands the legal system may require this. But in other places the legal system may offer little hope of successful prosecution." (Emphasis mine) And the January 1, 1997 Watchtower ((pages 26-29)says:
"Depending on the law of the land where he lives, the molester may well have to serve a prison term or face other sanctions from the State. THE CONGREGATION [OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES] WILL NOT PROTECT HIM FROM THIS." (Again, emphasis is mine)

Those journals, published by the Christian publishing arm of Jehovah's Witnesses, clearly state their position. Also, even if one denies being an abuser, the victims have every right to report for the police, and elders do strongly encourage parents to do so as soon as possible. Elders themselves can report to the authorities, whether or not it is required in the jurisdiction they reside in. Additionaly, if evidence such as DNA or physical evidence, or medical evidence indicate that one has abused a child, then that will be used as a 2nd witness, and the elder or individual involved in abusing children will most likely face expulsion from the congregation. If one was an elder, he will never again be allowed to serve as an elder in the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses. Witnesses, in fact, were the first Christian group to disqualify anyone a pastoral or eldership if he is a pedophile.

RedhorseWoman

Providence, RI

#12 Dec 15, 2006
Quoting an article from the Awake! magazine, that is produced for public consumption and that is referring to molestation in OTHER venues in no way indicates what the official Watchtower policy states.

You know as well as I that JWs are taught to ALWAYS go to the elders FIRST when there is a problem. They have ALWAYS been taught that going to worldly authorities is NOT the best option because the elders are led by Holy Spirit and God's organization and THEY can handle congregation matters (and any other matters much better than any worldly authority.)

If, however, the molester is a non-JW, then, of course, the JW will most likely go to a worldly authority, also, but NOT when the issue involves a fellow JW.

According to the OFFICIAL Watchtower policy, elders MIGHT have to report the matter IF it is required by law in that state. If reporting is not mandated by law, then the elders are under no obligation to do anything...and they usually don't.

It has been shown time and time again that JW molesters are reported to the congregation elders, who question the molester, who then assures them that he is innocent, and the matter goes no further.

The WTS is very good at pointing fingers at other groups, but their own record is abysmal as far as handling pedophiles.
David - New York - NY

Brooklyn, NY

#13 Dec 15, 2006
RedhorseWoman wrote:
Quoting an article from the Awake! magazine, that is produced for public consumption and that is referring to molestation in OTHER venues in no way indicates what the official Watchtower policy states.
You know as well as I that JWs are taught to ALWAYS go to the elders FIRST when there is a problem. They have ALWAYS been taught that going to worldly authorities is NOT the best option because the elders are led by Holy Spirit and God's organization and THEY can handle congregation matters (and any other matters much better than any worldly authority.)
If, however, the molester is a non-JW, then, of course, the JW will most likely go to a worldly authority, also, but NOT when the issue involves a fellow JW.
According to the OFFICIAL Watchtower policy, elders MIGHT have to report the matter IF it is required by law in that state. If reporting is not mandated by law, then the elders are under no obligation to do anything...and they usually don't.
It has been shown time and time again that JW molesters are reported to the congregation elders, who question the molester, who then assures them that he is innocent, and the matter goes no further.
The WTS is very good at pointing fingers at other groups, but their own record is abysmal as far as handling pedophiles.
It is not true that Witnesses are taught the going to only the elders is the best option. As Christians they believe that secular authorities must be obeyed (as long as it does not conflict with
God's laws), and this includes reporting crime, including alleged child abuse to parent. Articles written in the WT and Awake! are not just for public consumption. Any reading those magazines know that they are considered "spiritual food" provided by the faithful and discreet servant. I cannot imagine any Witness parent that has read the many articles written by the Watchtower and then not feel compelled to report it the proper authorities. One of the articles clearly stated that the congregation (meaning Jehovah's Witnesses) would not protect a pedophile from criminal prosecution. As far as I know, Witnesses are the only Christian group that disfellowships individuals that are pedophiles. And, unlike other churches, they have a policy of never allowing a pedophile to become an elder. Compared to the Catholic Church, which knowlingly transfered pedophiles for one parish to another,
Witnesses have a far better record. In a book call Brother Tony's Boys, a confessed pedophile that was an evangelical pastor, associated with a pentecostal group was allowed to continue preaching, because they liked the way he preached. The result was he molested hundreds of boys. The book show that there were numerous pastor and preachers involved in sharing and molesting boys. If only just 1 member of the church reported him, he would not have ruined the lives of hundreds of boys. In constrast, if an elder admited to that immoral behavior, he would be removed, and the congregation would report it the authorities. So, no, I don't agree with you. I see a clear difference between the Witnesses and the other churches when in comes to protecting children from abusers.
RedhorseWoman

Providence, RI

#15 Dec 16, 2006
David - New York - NY wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not true that Witnesses are taught the going to only the elders is the best option. As Christians they believe that secular authorities must be obeyed (as long as it does not conflict with
God's laws), and this includes reporting crime, including alleged child abuse to parent.
Come on, David! I was a JW for 30 years and I know what I was taught, and it was that elders were the first ones that a JW should go to for ANYTHING so that they could get the proper "scriptural" perspective on a matter.

ANY time another JW was involved, the matter was to go before the elders so that there would be no reproach brought upon the congregation and upon Jehovah.

NEVER was I taught to go FIRST to "worldly" authorities and bypass the congregation elders unless the issue involved a non-JW...THEN the JW would certainly go to the authorities first because JW elders would have no jurisdiction over a worldly person.
Articles written in the WT and Awake! are not just for public consumption.
I didn't say they were JUST for public consumption, but they are geared to present the JWs properly to the public.
Any reading those magazines know that they are considered "spiritual food" provided by the faithful and discreet servant.
Ah, yes, including the spiritual food about how to paper train your puppy.
I cannot imagine any Witness parent that has read the many articles written by the Watchtower and then not feel compelled to report it the proper authorities.
I can. Any "mature Christian" Witness that I have EVER known would know that the FIRST thing to be done is to present the matter to the elders because the elders are guided by Holy Spirit and they will be able to advise the JWs on what Jehovah wants done in the matter.

JWs are taught that they should not bring their brother to court and that congregation matters should be kept within the congregation...and this includes allegations of sexual misconduct.
One of the articles clearly stated that the congregation (meaning Jehovah's Witnesses) would not protect a pedophile from criminal prosecution.
And your point is? Most JW pedophiles never see a court of law if they declare their innocence to the elders and the victims are told that they should not bring reproach on the congregation by taking the matter any further since the elders, guided by Holy Spirit, have declared the man innocent.
As far as I know, Witnesses are the only Christian group that disfellowships individuals that are pedophiles.
Wrong. JWs disfellowhip individuals that are CONFESSES and/or CONVICTED pedophiles. There are many pedophiles within the organization that have denied doing anything wrong (lying, of course) who are NEVER disfellowshipped and who continue to molest with the full knowledge of the elders for decades....and no one in the congregation (except for the victims) knows that they have a predator in their midst.
RedhorseWoman

Providence, RI

#16 Dec 16, 2006
And, unlike other churches, they have a policy of never allowing a pedophile to become an elder. Compared to the Catholic Church, which knowlingly transfered pedophiles for one parish to another,
Witnesses have a far better record.
HA!! Again, the pedophile must have either CONFESSED to the crime or been CONVICTED of the crime for this to occur.

As an example, a pedophile from my home congregation was finally brought up on criminal charges by two of his victims who had left the JWs and were able to file charges against him.
At the time that they filed charges, he was serving as a ministerial servant in his newest congregation, and had been serving as a ministerial servant in several other congregations before that.

Turns out that there were multiple accusations brought against him by numerous victims over a period of almost 40 years and nothing was ever done to him....AND he continued to serve in a position of responsibility all that time.
In a book call Brother Tony's Boys, a confessed pedophile that was an evangelical pastor, associated with a pentecostal group was allowed to continue preaching, because they liked the way he preached. The result was he molested hundreds of boys. The book show that there were numerous pastor and preachers involved in sharing and molesting boys. If only just 1 member of the church reported him, he would not have ruined the lives of hundreds of boys. In constrast, if an elder admited to that immoral behavior, he would be removed, and the congregation would report it the authorities.
Again, IF he admitted it....which most pedophiles DON'T do. They lie, and they know that absolutely NOTHING will be done to them and that their victims will be told that THEY could be disfellowshipped if they say anything because it will be considered slander against an innocent man.

Too many "ifs" for your arguments to hold water.
So, no, I don't agree with you. I see a clear difference between the Witnesses and the other churches when in comes to protecting children from abusers.
Sorry, but from personal experience and from hearing numerous accounts from victims who state that their cases were totally mishandled (and I don't believe, as most JWs state, that any victim who comes forward is automatically a liar) I have to disagree with your assessment.

JWs have just as much problem as any other group and they make it worse by denying that this is a problem.

The Watchtower policy is extremely weak, and there are WAY too many coverups within the congregation. But...then again....if you choose to hide your head in the sand and put your children at risk merely to make a religious publishing company look good, then that is your decision. I pray that your children remain safe from Brother Hands.
RedhorseWoman

Providence, RI

#17 Dec 16, 2006
Just thinking of some other examples of the manner in which JWs deal with criminal activity, which is NOT to go first to the worldly authorities as has been claimed.

Sister Abused is beaten frequently by her JW husband. Does she get him arrested and have a restraining order served against him? No, she goes to the elders, who counsel her that she needs to be more submissive as a good, Christian wife...and she continues to be beaten.

Brother Lightfingers is seen going into the bedroom where other brothers have placed their coats at a JW gathering. Later, several brothers realize that items are missing that they had in their coat pockets.

Do they call the police and have Brother Lightfingers arrested? No, they go to the elders, who ask Brother Lightfingers if he took the items. If there happened to be TWO witnesses to his going through the coats, it's possible that the elders would take action against him, but they certainly wouldn't rush right out and turn him over to worldly authorities. That, after all, would bring reproach on Jehovah.

The children of Brother and Sister Bashemup frequently sport bruises on their arms and cheeks when they come to the Hall. Do the good JWs rush out to report the Bashemups to Child Protective Services, or do they go to the elders with their suspicions? I think that the elders would be the first choice, don't you?

Short of seeing another JW commit murder, I don't know of any other time that a "mature Christian" JW would go FIRST to worldly authorities.
David - New York - NY

Brooklyn, NY

#18 Dec 25, 2006
RedhorseWomen,
It is extremely difficult to get into an intelligent conversation with you, because all you do is argue. It is clear from the WT publications I cited earlier, and there are numerous others, that the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses do WILL NOT PROTECT pedophiles from prosecution, which clearly means they must be reported to the proper authorities. You keep alluding that an elder/MS must confess in order for him to be reported to the authorities. However, as I mentioned before in prior posts, elders are required to report abuse allegations, even if their are not 2 witnesses to the case. Even though one claiming to be innocent is not immediately disfellowshipped, once a case is reported and a more thorough investigation is done by secular authorites,including DNA testing, medical testing, etc, the elders can then determine if one was lying, if a "2nd witness" such as DNA or physical evidence proves he lying. So, elders, who are generally not trained to conduct DNA tests or examine physical and medical evidence, will use that evidence against one accussed as "2nd witness". It simply just not true that one who denies he is guilty is scott free. The congregation will take the necessary measures needed to protect the children and congregation. And I find it extremely difficult to believe that an individual that was accused by more than 1 child was allowed was not reported to the authorities and allowed to remain a member of the congregation. Unlike other churches, if one is accused by more than 1 child, then the 2nd child is considered to be the 2nd witness. In cases of numerous accusations, he would be expelled, and will most likely face jail time, depending on the jurisdiction that he lives in. There was 1 case in a London, UK case, in which 2 young girls reported abuse to the congregation. The UK congregation did nothing in that case. It was report by the girls and the parents to the proper authorities. The man involved was convicted and received a jail sentence. When the WT society verified that the elders of the London congregation knew of the 2 incidents, and did not follow both proper and normal moral procedures, the entire body of elders in that London congregation was removed, and replaced by elders from another congregation. So Witnesses do take very seriously the protection of children, and the immediate removal of the pedophile from the congregation.
David - New York - NY

Brooklyn, NY

#19 Dec 25, 2006
RedhorseWomen,

The cases that I know personally heard of: one father that attended the English speaking congregation of the KH my mother and sisters attended. He was reported to the police and disfellowshipped, and everyone in the congregation knew to keep their children away from him. In spite of being reported to the police, he had what I think was a relatively lite sentence of just a few months. This is in the mid-1980's, and perhaps the sentences were not as harsher (as they should be) as they are now. There was also a case I was told about, also in the mid-1980's, about a 21-year old pioneer sister who was supposed to be giving Bible lessons to a 13 and 14 year-old boys, and instead gave them sex lessons. She, of course, was expelled, and the parents reported it to the police. Unfortanately, from what I was told, the criminal judge in the case was extremely lenient toward the abuser. I learned about this case because my uncle and aunt, who had just converted to the truth around 1984, had shared the same KH of the congregation in which the case occured.
And as far as I know, those abused and/or parents can report the abuse to the authorities before reporting it to the elders. Some parents may choose to go the elders first, perhaps getting a forced confession from the pedophile. To be honest, I just don't know how any Witness parent reading the excellent counsel given in the WT magazines, repeated throughout the years, would not go to the police and report it. It just does not make any sense.
Also, the Jehovah's Witnesses are the only Christian group that make a child molester ineligble to serve as an elder or ministerial servant in the congegation, even if the criminal act took place years ago, or even if the act was done prior to the individual becoming a Witness. This has been the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses' policy for over 15 years, long before some of the other churches started to look and adjust their own policies. I know there is alot of anonymous "testimonies" on the Internet, but they are unverifiable, for the simple fact that they are anonymous. What I do know is that there are clear and numerous articles written by the WTS, throughout the years, even before SilentLambs started, that clearly stated any kind of child abuse, sexual or otherwise, must be reported to the proper authorities, and that the clear policy of the Christian congregation is not to protect child abusers from prosecution. So no, Redhorsewomen, I cannot agree with what you're saying.
Right now, I don't have any children. But when I do in the future, I would feel safer bringing them to a Christian congregation, than in the other churches. I do honestly believe that Witness policy of not protecting child molesters from prosection, of making them ineligible from becoming a elder or MS, of exposing by disfellowshipping them, that my kids would have a considerable less chance of facing that type of abuse, than attending other churches.(I thank Jehovah God, my mother never let me be an altar boy when I was a kid, and I am so glad she did not sign the permission slip to attend an Assembly of God summer camp, when I was kid.) And, God, forbid, if anything were to happen to one of my children, I would beat the hell of the accused (repent later), report him to the police, and then go to the elders.
David - New York - NY

Brooklyn, NY

#20 Dec 25, 2006
RedhorseWomen,

The cases that I know personally heard of: one father that attended the English speaking congregation of the KH my mother and sisters attended. He was reported to the police and disfellowshipped, and everyone in the congregation knew to keep their children away from him. In spite of being reported to the police, he had what I think was a relatively lite sentence of just a few months. This is in the mid-1980's, and perhaps the sentences were not as harsher (as they should be) as they are now. There was also a case I was told about, also in the mid-1980's, about a 21-year old pioneer sister who was supposed to be giving Bible lessons to a 13 and 14 year-old boys, and instead gave them sex lessons. She, of course, was expelled, and the parents reported it to the police. Unfortanately, from what I was told, the criminal judge in the case was extremely lenient toward the abuser. I learned about this case because my uncle and aunt, who had just converted to the truth around 1984, had shared the same KH of the congregation in which the case occured.
And as far as I know, those abused and/or parents can report the abuse to the authorities before reporting it to the elders. Some parents may choose to go the elders first, perhaps getting a forced confession from the pedophile. To be honest, I just don't know how any Witness parent reading the excellent counsel given in the WT magazines, repeated throughout the years, would not go to the police and report it. It just does not make any sense.
Also, the Jehovah's Witnesses are the only Christian group that make a child molester ineligble to serve as an elder or ministerial servant in the congegation, even if the criminal act took place years ago, or even if the act was done prior to the individual becoming a Witness. This has been the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses' policy for over 15 years, long before some of the other churches started to look and adjust their own policies. I know there is alot of anonymous "testimonies" on the Internet, but they are unverifiable, for the simple fact that they are anonymous. What I do know is that there are clear and numerous articles written by the WTS, throughout the years, even before SilentLambs started, that clearly stated any kind of child abuse, sexual or otherwise, must be reported to the proper authorities, and that the clear policy of the Christian congregation is not to protect child abusers from prosecution. So no, Redhorsewomen, I cannot agree with what you're saying.
Right now, I don't have any children. But when I do in the future, I would feel safer bringing them to a Christian congregation, than in the other churches. I do honestly believe that Witness policy of not protecting child molesters from prosection, of making them ineligible from becoming a elder or MS, of exposing by disfellowshipping them, that my kids would have a considerable less chance of facing that type of abuse, than attending other churches.(I thank Jehovah God, my mother never let me be an altar boy when I was a kid; and when I stopped attending the Catholic Church, and I am so glad she did not sign the permission slip for me to attend an Assembly of God summer camp, when I was kid.) And, God, forbid, if anything were to happen to one of my children, I would beat the hell of the accused (repent later), report him to the police, and then go to the elders.
Christian Peper

Columbia, MO

#22 Dec 26, 2006
Sexual repression leads to child rape.

Since: Dec 06

Kittery, Maine

#23 Dec 26, 2006
David - New York - NY wrote:
<quoted text>
What about the priests the confessed to molesting children multiple times. They were merely transfered from parish to parish so that they can abuse other children. If a Witness elder were to admit that he abused children, who would be removed from his position, most likely be expelled, and will not be protected by the congregation from criminal prosecution.
While this is now true, it was not always so. I'm sure the recent disclosures of the coverups of pedophiles in the JW organization had much to do with the fairly recent change in policy.

In my old congregation, it was found that an elder had molested a young girl, a close relative. He was announced as having stepped down and he moved to a neighboring congregation. He was not disfellowshipped not even publically reproved. I never knew what had happened until I was appointed as an elder and a couple of the other elders told me the real truth.
RedhorseWoman

Providence, RI

#24 Dec 26, 2006
David - New York - NY wrote:
RedhorseWomen,
It is extremely difficult to get into an intelligent conversation with you, because all you do is argue.
Excuse me? All I do is argue? David, I disagree with some of the supposed "facts" that you bring out and tell you that this is not what I have either read on my own or experienced. This is NOT arguing.
It is clear from the WT publications I cited earlier, and there are numerous others, that the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses do WILL NOT PROTECT pedophiles from prosecution, which clearly means they must be reported to the proper authorities.
No, David, it doesn't mean that. What it means is that IF the victims DO wish to file criminal charges, the WTS won't stop them.

In case after case, however, what has happened is that the WTS sends in their lawyers to defend the pedophile, as, for instance, in the Berry case in NH. So, despite what the WTS CLAIMS, they DO try to protect the pedophile if they feel it is in their best interests to do so.

NOWHERE in that official policy does it state that ELDERS are REQUIRED to report anything.

If you feel I'm mistaken in this, please give the exact quote from the official WTS policy wherein it states that any allegations of molestation MUST BE reported BY THE ELDERS in the congregation.
You keep alluding that an elder/MS must confess in order for him to be reported to the authorities. However, as I mentioned before in prior posts, elders are required to report abuse allegations, even if their are not 2 witnesses to the case. Even though one claiming to be innocent is not immediately disfellowshipped, once a case is reported and a more thorough investigation is done by secular authorites,including DNA testing, medical testing, etc, the elders can then determine if one was lying, if a "2nd witness" such as DNA or physical evidence proves he lying. So, elders, who are generally not trained to conduct DNA tests or examine physical and medical evidence, will use that evidence against one accussed as "2nd witness". It simply just not true that one who denies he is guilty is scott free. The congregation will take the necessary measures needed to protect the children and congregation.
I'm sure that you believe this to be true, David, but it is not. I have read the WT policy on this, and it states NOTHING that you are claiming.

In fact, numerous examples have been cited on the Silentlambs site wherein nothing was done if the pedophile claimed innocence.

I also know from personal experience that the pedophile in my home congregation claimed innocence and molested numerous victims over a period of almost 4 decades and NOTHING was done to him by the elders.

They kept records of all of the allegations, and several of his victims brought criminal charges against him when records of the judicial committee meetings were sent to them by the State of Massachusetts after the state required that all churches turn over any reports of molestation to the state. There were numerous victims, but nothing had ever been done by the elders in at least three congregations.

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