Salvation by Jace or Not
Flame

Washington, DC

#86 Jan 24, 2014
FutureMan wrote:
Actually from what I can understand of what he is trying to say, yes.
If we put faith in Jesus and his teachings and observe them that will raise our spirituality to a level that will be more than necessary for personality survival, but not eternal life in the immediate sense as this is dependent on our own spiritual perfection, that is how I understand it in any-case.
As for not accepting Jesus and his teachings when taught this, whether this will result in our not receiving a resurrection, well I would not presume to say so, accept that there could be extenuating factors and circumstances that might be involved here and so it would not be wise for anyone to say yay or nay in this regard as this is solely the prerogative of those who will be judging us once we die, as to personality survival.
Really!!!?? Yes? No? No sure?
It shouldn't be to hard for a Christian to answer this question. Didn't Jesus say 'I am the way to salvation'?
Thirdwitness

United States

#87 Jan 24, 2014
One opinion, belief, or claim is fact and one is fiction.

Opinion 1. We need to come to know the true God and his true Son in order to gain eternal life.

Opinion 2. We need not come to know the true God and his true Son in order to gain eternal life.

Jace will argue that since both are opinions then neither is true. This is his folly. Opinions, beliefs, and claims can be true or false. In this case, one is true and one is false. One is fact and one is fiction.

Jace: oh its just an opinion therefore you won't perish for not listening.

Jace cannot comprehend that beliefs, opinions, claims can be true and factual. Therefore rather than dismiss everything by saying,'that is opinion', wouldn't the wise thing to do be to examine if the opinion, belief, or claim is true or not.

Jace has come up with some absurd goofy reasoning essentially saying,'it doesn't matter what we believe, you will still be ok'.

Such foolishness! And we can't make this stuff up folks. Only the likes of Jace could do that!
Flame

Washington, DC

#88 Jan 24, 2014
Thirdwitness wrote:
Aneirin wrote something that applies here as well.
READERS I hope you appreciate what is happening in this thread.
People who claim to be Christians are refusing to say what a person needs to do for salvation and they are refusing to say what the consequences will be for those who do not do what is required.
Well, if you read the Bible, you would realize that it is one of the primary functions of a Christian to tell people these things.
Jesus told his disciples to teach people ll the things that he commanded.
It was Jesus who said that faith in him was required for everlasting life and it was Jesus who said we would be "cut off" if we did not put faith in him.
And none of the so-called "Christians" in this thread will pass on that basic teaching of Jesus, only Jehovah's Witnesses being true Christians will.
And guess what? For telling people what Jesus said, that people will die if they do not accept Jesus, Jehovah's Witnesses are criticized!!!
This post needs to be repeated. In a nutshell, it summarize this whole thread.
Flame

Washington, DC

#89 Jan 24, 2014
Aneirin wrote:
Jesus: "Whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me."
Jehovah's Witness: "Whoever rejects Jesus rejects God."
Topix Preacher: "Whoever rejects Jesus may or may not be rejecting God, I'm not sure. Why ask me? I have only opinions! You don't want to put too much store in what I have to say anyway. Oh but don't talk to the Jehovah's Witness!"
Need to be reposted as well

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#90 Jan 24, 2014
I have a confession to make. Part of why I come here is Aneirin and Thirdwitness. lol

Since: Aug 12

Aberdeen, UK

#91 Jan 24, 2014
Thirdwitness wrote:
Aneirin wrote something that applies here as well.
READERS I hope you appreciate what is happening in this thread.
People who claim to be Christians are refusing to say what a person needs to do for salvation and they are refusing to say what the consequences will be for those who do not do what is required.
Well, if you read the Bible, you would realize that it is one of the primary functions of a Christian to tell people these things.
Jesus told his disciples to teach people ll the things that he commanded.
It was Jesus who said that faith in him was required for everlasting life and it was Jesus who said we would be "cut off" if we did not put faith in him.
And none of the so-called "Christians" in this thread will pass on that basic teaching of Jesus, only Jehovah's Witnesses being true Christians will.
And guess what? For telling people what Jesus said, that people will die if they do not accept Jesus, Jehovah's Witnesses are criticized!!!
This goes for Aneirin's comment too; that is not the argument ^^^

As usual it's been twisted and fabricated. The question is not about accepting Jesus per ce - it's about WHICH Jesus (I.e. which sect + what it teaches about him). You like to blur the line between your own sect and purely 'Jesusonian' teachings (as if they were one and the same). Sadly some people are very slow at grasping this basic point.

Since: Aug 12

Aberdeen, UK

#92 Jan 24, 2014
Duh-boy wrote:
I have a confession to make. Part of why I come here is Aneirin and Thirdwitness. lol
Being a JW is more about being in a club than anything else. So long as your team members help to cement faith in your religion (dampen the doubts) no matter how illogical or even immoral and unethical, then you will continue to cheer on your gang...feeling secure warm + fuzzy now that the cognitive dissonance has dissipated for a while.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#93 Jan 24, 2014
Brother P wrote:
The question is not about accepting Jesus per ce - it's about WHICH Jesus (I.e. which sect + what it teaches about him).
So NOW your argument is that you don't even know WHICH Jesus to endorse? This just gets better and better.

Jehovah's Witnesses, on the other hand, will make no bones about letting people know WHICH Jesus will save them through their applied faith.

Since: Aug 12

Aberdeen, UK

#94 Jan 24, 2014
JWs are conditioned into caring more about protecting their 'system' over and above the truth or the individual. In fact, the whole system is far more important than the individual to the degree where there is no personal religion! You are merely a tiny cog in the machine.

That's how you know it's not from Jesus because he brought God directly to the individual (not a gang on earth). Jesus revolutionised religion in that he rid the middle man (stranglehold of a priesthood) and personalized it! God is not a God of the nation, but rather to the individual.

Since: Aug 12

Aberdeen, UK

#95 Jan 24, 2014
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
So NOW your argument is that you don't even know WHICH Jesus to endorse? This just gets better and better.
Jehovah's Witnesses, on the other hand, will make no bones about letting people know WHICH Jesus will save them through their applied faith.
JW leadership obviously need to figure out which Jesus is which when they keep coming out with new light. Heck they took 100+ years trying to figure out who THEY ARE.

Lol

That's the kind of thing I was implying and how opinions and discovery is subjective and progressive (not exclusively applicable to JWs).

Since: Aug 12

Aberdeen, UK

#96 Jan 24, 2014
To give you an example; one religion teaches that Jesus is small minded, harsh and shows favouritism.

Another teaches that he is kind, considerat and merciful.

There you have two Jesus's
Thirdwitness

United States

#97 Jan 24, 2014
BrerP,

Deflecting and diverting and dancing trying to hide Jace's cowardness.

Why are you not defending the words of the Christ who said you will perish or be cut off if you do not accept Jesus as savior?

Has anti-JWism at all cost really caused you to sink so low as to defend Jace before Jesus?

Very sad what happens to people who abandon the true God and his true people. It should be a big lesson for all of us who want to maintain our logical reasoning faculties.

Jace over Jesus!

Absolutely pathetic.
Thirdwitness

United States

#98 Jan 24, 2014
I just got a mental picture of what it would've been like being with Jace on 911 in the towers.

Fireman: The tower is going to fall and we need to get out and away from it so we don't die.

Jace: That is just your opinion. You don't get to call down dearth on those that don't listen to your opinion.

Poor fellow. He don't understand that all opinions, claims, or beliefs are not false. Some are true.

And if life is in the balance we would do well to examine diligently to determine which is true.
UNchained

Kingsport, TN

#99 Jan 24, 2014
If a person does not accept Christ before they die do Jehovah's Witnesses teach that they will have their chance to accept Him in the resurrection?

Yes or No?
Thirdwitness

United States

#100 Jan 24, 2014
UNchained wrote:
If a person does not accept Christ before they die do Jehovah's Witnesses teach that they will have their chance to accept Him in the resurrection?
Yes or No?
Generally speaking, YES.

But each case is different and we cannot say in the case of each individual. Jehovah is the judge. He knows who had an adequate opportunity or not. We don't.

Then if they are resurrected they will have to accept Jesus or receive everlasting cutting off.

Now see how easy it is to answer questions honestly and straightforwardly!
FutureMan

Australia

#103 Jan 24, 2014
Thirdwitness wrote:
<quoted text>
Love the mumbo jumbo used here to divert and deflect such a simple question.
First the guy said it is the observing of Jesus teachings that lead us to the path of eternal life.
Now he's not so sure.
You guys are so ridiculous!
Such a simple question but so difficult for cowards to answer.
If we do not accept Jesus, will we perish?
Look, you are twisting my words to make me appear as a fool to all those that would read this and I am sure this is your purpose in the way that you word things here.

I already had stated that having faith in Jesus and observing his teachings will put us on the path to life, but you are not satisfied, are you?

You JWs have to be always right don't you?

Me well I am humble enough to admit that I am not always right, and still have very much to learn about spiritual matters and the universe at large, in fact a hell of a lot to learn.

And I do not know all there is to know about what is involved in our own individual salvation, but I am learning as I go along through life on this planet.

But you guys know everything there is to know about the truth, don't you? Just like that group of pharisee-like men who are in charge at the top of the organization, who proclaim proudly that they know what the "truth" is for sure, then change it afterwards and call past truths "old light" and new truths "New light".
Oh I forgot that is now not what they say as they now have changed this statement to "increasing light".
jace

Clinton, MD

#104 Jan 24, 2014
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>So NOW your argument is that you don't even know WHICH Jesus to endorse? This just gets better and better.

Jehovah's Witnesses, on the other hand, will make no bones about letting people know WHICH Jesus will save them through their applied faith.
And is it not THEIR opinion?
red blood relative

United States

#105 Jan 24, 2014
did jace really claim jesus returned already, and somehow appointed him to rule as god's exclusive mouthpiece?
i thought it was mr third and the jw gov body who did that.
Tao itness

Philadelphia, PA

#106 Jan 24, 2014
Why are so many here confused,witnesses and nonwitnesses alike? because we are too busy looking at the splinter in our brothers eye instead of looking at the rafter and are own! Jesus words are meant for each and everyone of us personally! They are not written so that we can point the fingers at others and say, you are not doing this like Jesus said or you are not doing that! Because when we do this we are disobeying Jesus in the first place by judging others! God and Jesus can do whatever they want, they are the only ones that can see the heart of the individual.
jace

Clinton, MD

#107 Jan 24, 2014
FutureMan wrote:
<quoted text>Look, you are twisting my words to make me appear as a fool to all those that would read this and I am sure this is your purpose in the way that you word things here.

".
They have no choice.

They can not defend one if their core teachings

This is why I listed it as the hardest teaching a jw can try to defend

But it's funny how they fail to grasp I gave an opinion
You ether agree or disagree but at no time does that now entitle you to declare death

DENOMNATIONS really have no choice

That is their foundation

We speak for god

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