big difference between KJV and NWT
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Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#21 Nov 13, 2012
Lemmy wrote:
<quoted text>Why did the early Watchtower mags have Masonic emblems on them,if you think the NIV is a poor translation then the NWT must be as well because they are so similar.
Hi Lemmy,

The NIV is a run of the mill modern translation, and is most of the time accurate, until it comes to a verse that deals with the their biased thinking that Jesus is God.

In these types of verses, they fail to translate, and will always put forth their interpretation. Most all translations render Col 1:15 as "the firstborn of all creation".

But the NIV and a few others insist on interpretating this verse as "the firstborn over all creation". They in this case fail to just translate, and resort to interpretation. There is absolutely no basis for such a rendering from the Greek text. It is purely interpretation and fails as translation.
Truth of Christ

Mesquite, NV

#22 Nov 13, 2012
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Lemmy,
The NIV is a run of the mill modern translation, and is most of the time accurate, until it comes to a verse that deals with the their biased thinking that Jesus is God.
In these types of verses, they fail to translate, and will always put forth their interpretation. Most all translations render Col 1:15 as "the firstborn of all creation".
But the NIV and a few others insist on interpretating this verse as "the firstborn over all creation". They in this case fail to just translate, and resort to interpretation. There is absolutely no basis for such a rendering from the Greek text. It is purely interpretation and fails as translation.
Firstborn of creation is a statement of title and authority. It is not about birthday the way JW religion dishonestly teaches. So NIV translation of this passage is accurate.
Lemmy

Kellyville, Australia

#23 Nov 13, 2012
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Lemmy,
The NIV is a run of the mill modern translation, and is most of the time accurate, until it comes to a verse that deals with the their biased thinking that Jesus is God.
In these types of verses, they fail to translate, and will always put forth their interpretation. Most all translations render Col 1:15 as "the firstborn of all creation".
But the NIV and a few others insist on interpretating this verse as "the firstborn over all creation". They in this case fail to just translate, and resort to interpretation. There is absolutely no basis for such a rendering from the Greek text. It is purely interpretation and fails as translation.
The NIV was written with the input of many different Christian groups,each trying not to offend the others while trying to have their own points addressed,remember too many cooks spoil the broth.You did'nt answer about the early watchtower mags having masonic emblems on them,i really would like your opinion.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#24 Nov 13, 2012
Truth of Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
Firstborn of creation is a statement of title and authority. It is not about birthday the way JW religion dishonestly teaches. So NIV translation of this passage is accurate.
"Firstborn of creation", is exactly what it says, the first creation that God accopmplshed, His only begotten Son, eons of time before any of the other spirit creatures or the physical creation was ever started.

This isn't about the day Jesus was born as a human child, and has nothing to do with birthdays.

It has to do with the very first creation by God Almighty, the "only begotten Son", as that is what this term means. All of the rest of the creation was created through "The Word of God" as the following verses show.

Col 1:16-20 (NASB) 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

The "firstborn from the dead" is literally stating that Jesus is the first one to be resurrected to heavenly life.

The "firstborn of creation", literally means the first creation.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#25 Nov 13, 2012
Lemmy wrote:
<quoted text>The NIV was written with the input of many different Christian groups,each trying not to offend the others while trying to have their own points addressed,remember too many cooks spoil the broth.You did'nt answer about the early watchtower mags having masonic emblems on them,i really would like your opinion.
There were some things that had to be cleansed out of the faith, in those early days. Back then the brothers did some things that we now know were wrong, and those things were corrected many many decades ago.

What ever symbols you might be thinking of have no bearing on the brothers today.
Truth of Christ

Mesquite, NV

#26 Nov 13, 2012
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
"Firstborn of creation", is exactly what it says
Yes, it is a statement of title and authority. It has nothing to do with birthday which is obvious since the divine Jesus was never born.

It is not meant to imply Jesus was created since he was not. JW organization claims are not relevant.

So the NIV translation of this verse is accurate.
Truth of Christ

Mesquite, NV

#27 Nov 13, 2012
John 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Jesus could not have been created. If he was then John 1:3 would mean he created himself.

JW organization claims violate scripture and are not relevant.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#28 Nov 14, 2012
Truth of Christ wrote:
John 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jesus could not have been created. If he was then John 1:3 would mean he created himself.
JW organization claims violate scripture and are not relevant.

What does "Through him" actually mean?

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Your opinions don't have Scriptural backing. We exist through Jesus, because of the Father "from whom are all things", including His only begotten Son.

God is working through His Son to bring about the restroation of mankind back to perfection, as He originally purposed in the beginning. When Jesus has accomplished all that His Father has assigned him to do, then he will turn over restored mankind, back to his God and Father.

1 Corinthians 15:24-28
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27 For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says,“All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

You have been sold a falsehood, that God has given up and is going to abandon on his original purpose for the earth, and bring all good people to heaven, burn up the earth, and all of the bad people go to hell.
Truth of Christ

Mesquite, NV

#29 Nov 14, 2012
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
What does "Through him" actually mean?
Its meaning does not change the fact that Jesus was not created.

John 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Jesus could not have been created. If he was then John 1:3 would mean he created himself.

JW organization claims violate scripture and are not relevant.

Since: Mar 09

United States

#30 Nov 14, 2012
The KJV used to be the main one we used, for many years. I still use it some. The NWT just changes from the Old German Dialect using such words as Thou, Thine, etc, into modern language that means the same...but easier to understand.
meho wrote:
Why can't JW's see any difference between what the King James Version says and what the New World Translation says? So many JW's tell me they have compared them and that they teach the same thing.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#31 Nov 14, 2012
Truth of Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
Its meaning does not change the fact that Jesus was not created.
John 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jesus could not have been created. If he was then John 1:3 would mean he created himself.
JW organization claims violate scripture and are not relevant.
Making the same statement over and over does not make it a fact. You offer no proof that Jesus isn’t “of creation”, the very first thing created.

1 Corinthians 8:6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Paul states,“from whom (God the Father) are all things”, and that is including His Son, in his pre-human role as the Word of God. This doesn’t make him God, but the “Word of God”, or the “Son of God”.

Jesus declares that his God, is the same as Mary’s God. If Jesus sees his Father as his God, he cannot possibly be God, because someone that has one as his God, is also a worshiper of his God.

John 20:17
Jesus said to her,“Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”

John over and over sees Jesus not as God, but the “Lamb of God”.(John 1:36)

Or as the Messiah, which means “one that has been anointed”. If Jesus was God, why would he need to be anointed? Who would have to anoint him?(John 1:41)

If Jesus was God, why did he have to receive power from God to do healing?

Luke 5:17 (CEV)
One day some Pharisees and experts in the Law of Moses sat listening to Jesus teach. They had come from every village in Galilee and Judea and from Jerusalem. God had given Jesus the power to heal the sick,

If Jesus is God, why does he have to inherit things?

If Jesus is God, why does he have to wait at God’s right hand?

If Jesus is God, why did he have to pray for help in the garden, and why did he need strengthening from an angel?

When Jesus was exalted to a higher position, who exalted him if he is God?

Jesus has been given all authority in heaven and earth. If Jesus is God, who had to give him that authority?

I could go on and on, but this won't help you understand, unless you just accept what the Scriptures teach regarding Jesus' role as the Son of God.
Lemmy

Baulkham Hills, Australia

#32 Nov 15, 2012
If you tell a big enough lie and keep repeating it sooner or later people will believe it!

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#33 Nov 15, 2012
Lemmy wrote:
If you tell a big enough lie and keep repeating it sooner or later people will believe it!
You are speaking of the big lie, the Trinity theory/doctrine?

Since: Mar 09

United States

#34 Nov 25, 2012
I am glad the KJV is going to add Jehovah GOD's name where it belongs. I see that as a good thing.
Reality

Tucker, GA

#35 Nov 25, 2012
Crystal Chanda Cassadine wrote:
<quoted text>
The KJV was used before the NWT was printed. The same message, the same truth, and Jehovah's purpose was and still is all there.
Not True.

Since: Mar 09

United States

#36 Nov 25, 2012
It is true. We used the KJV for many years before the NWT. We taught just the same as we do today.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#37 Nov 26, 2012
Reality wrote:
<quoted text>
Not True.
Not true?

Then why does my KJV Bible say that it was published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society inside the front cover?

I also have an Americal Standard Version, of 1901, that was published by the Watchtower.

Did you know that they are the largest publisher in the world? They print and distribute Bibles and Bible literature in over 500 languages.

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#38 Nov 28, 2012
The major reason for the creation of the New World Translation was to have a tool to teach of a god other than the OMNIPRESENT GOD of Israel that is at the core of the teachings of the historical Jesus.

If you examine the many scriptures in both the Hebrew Scriptures and the Greek scriptures in the bible that deal with the OMNIPRESENT nature of GOD and our place in GOD, you will find all of these critical scriptures have been modified in the New World Translation to point towards the organization and it's god instead of the OMNIPRESENT GOD of Israel.

Some of these scriptures have been modified to deny the triune god of the Roman form of Christianity, but all in all, the New World translation has been specifically modified to fit this god:

http://www.seanet.com/~raines/jehovah.html

We all need to get informed as to the evil nature of the Roman hoax of Christianity and it's many derivatives, such as the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, that deny the Jewish GOD and the Jewish Jesus, and get involved in restoring true Christianity based on the OMNIPRESENT GOD of Israel to humanity that is even now being found to be in accord with the latest scientific findings concerning the nature of the Cosmos!

GOD is LOVE. WE are ALL ONE WITH GOD, even the unloving!

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