Can someone explain this to me...

[Same Sophie]

I'm I reading this correctly? Does it seem that they are making blaming the victim?

W 02/152012, page 29

"Selma recalls a lesson she learned from the Witness who studied with her.“On one particular day,” says Selma,“I didn’t want to have a Bible study. The night before, Steve had hit me as I had tried to prove a point, and I was feeling sad and sorry for myself. After I told the sister what had happened and how I felt, she asked me to read 1 Corinthians 13:4-7. As I did, I began to reason,‘Steve never does any of these loving things for me.’ But the sister made me think differently by asking,‘How many of those acts of love do you show toward your husband?’ My an- swer was,‘None, for he is so difficult to live with.’ The sister softly said,‘Selma, who is trying to be a Christian here? You or Steve?’ Realizing that I needed to adjust my thinking, I prayed to Jehovah to help me be more loving toward Steve. Slowly, things started to change.” After 17 years, Steve accepted the truth."

[JesusMyKing]

I've seen this article on here before.

That's exactly what's happening. They are blaming the victim.

[Jacob Tambly]

Looks like the JWS support spousal abuse and blames the woman. Sickening.

[sidgi]

Same Sophie wrote:

I'm I reading this correctly? Does it seem that they are making blaming the victim?
W 02/152012, page 29
"Selma recalls a lesson she learned from the Witness who studied with her.“On one particular day,” says Selma,“I didn’t want to have a Bible study. The night before, Steve had hit me as I had tried to prove a point, and I was feeling sad and sorry for myself. After I told the sister what had happened and how I felt, she asked me to read 1 Corinthians 13:4-7. As I did, I began to reason,‘Steve never does any of these loving things for me.’ But the sister made me think differently by asking,‘How many of those acts of love do you show toward your husband?’ My an- swer was,‘None, for he is so difficult to live with.’ The sister softly said,‘Selma, who is trying to be a Christian here? You or Steve?’ Realizing that I needed to adjust my thinking, I prayed to Jehovah to help me be more loving toward Steve. Slowly, things started to change.” After 17 years, Steve accepted the truth."

I don't see it that way. I've seen that particular scenario in witness publications before. there are several of them that have a similar moral. Blaming the victim is not the intent. Whether it is sensitive to the victim or not, is a subjective thing. The intent of the illustration is objective, meant for self examination.

sidgi

[Jacob Tambly]

sidgi wrote:

<quoted text>I don't see it that way. I've seen that particular scenario in witness publications before. there are several of them that have a similar moral. Blaming the victim is not the intent. Whether it is sensitive to the victim or not, is a subjective thing. The intent of the illustration is objective, meant for self examination.

sidgi

"Realizing that I needed to adjust my thinking, I prayed to Jehovah to help me be more loving toward Steve. Slowly, things started to change"

How is that placing the blame?

[sidgi]

Jacob Tambly wrote:

<quoted text>
"Realizing that I needed to adjust my thinking, I prayed to Jehovah to help me be more loving toward Steve. Slowly, things started to change"
How is that placing the blame?

Well, I think you mean, how is that "not" placing the blame?

Just because she tried to save her marriage, in the illustration, doesn't mean she was to blame to begin with. Remember, it was Steve who had the change of heart. If you wish to find fault, you will. If you wish to actually think about it, you won't have a knee-jerk assessment. It wasn't suggested that she was at fault, only that perhaps she could make a positive contribution. I think it wasn't a realistic presentation. That being said, it wasn't blaming the victim, either.

sidgi

[Same Sophie]

sidgi wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, I think you mean, how is that "not" placing the blame?
Just because she tried to save her marriage, in the illustration, doesn't mean she was to blame to begin with. Remember, it was Steve who had the change of heart. If you wish to find fault, you will. If you wish to actually think about it, you won't have a knee-jerk assessment. It wasn't suggested that she was at fault, only that perhaps she could make a positive contribution. I think it wasn't a realistic presentation. That being said, it wasn't blaming the victim, either.
sidgi

"After I told the sister what had happened and how I felt, she asked me to read 1 Corinthians 13:4-7. As I did, I began to reason,‘Steve never does any of these loving things for me.’ But the sister made me think differently by asking,‘How many of those acts of love do you show toward your husband?’ My an- swer was,‘None, for he is so difficult to live with.’ The sister softly said,‘Selma, who is trying to be a Christian here? You or Steve?’"

Sorry I just think that the last question is implying that...this just doesn't seem to be a realistic view anyways. Its the wrong approach on behalf of the one giving advice...

[sidgi]

Same Sophie wrote:

<quoted text>
"After I told the sister what had happened and how I felt, she asked me to read 1 Corinthians 13:4-7. As I did, I began to reason,‘Steve never does any of these loving things for me.’ But the sister made me think differently by asking,‘How many of those acts of love do you show toward your husband?’ My an- swer was,‘None, for he is so difficult to live with.’ The sister softly said,‘Selma, who is trying to be a Christian here? You or Steve?’"
Sorry I just think that the last question is implying that...this just doesn't seem to be a realistic view anyways. Its the wrong approach on behalf of the one giving advice...

Well, of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And intent is more important than biased perception. Unless of course you worry about political correctness, or have a very good lawyer.

sidgi

[unlisted]

if he hit her once she should walk away and not look back!!! and the sister? is she a counselor educated in domestic abuse to say this? and what if he did hit her again as she said he is so difficult??? what if sister came to visit and found out this woman was in the hospital or worse?

sorry a man puts hand on a woman it will happen again unless she throws him out and he has extensive counseling.

[little lamb]

Same Sophie wrote:

I'm I reading this correctly? Does it seem that they are making blaming the victim?
W 02/152012, page 29
"Selma recalls a lesson she learned from the Witness who studied with her.“On one particular day,” says Selma,“I didn’t want to have a Bible study. The night before, Steve had hit me as I had tried to prove a point, and I was feeling sad and sorry for myself. After I told the sister what had happened and how I felt, she asked me to read 1 Corinthians 13:4-7. As I did, I began to reason,‘Steve never does any of these loving things for me.’ But the sister made me think differently by asking,‘How many of those acts of love do you show toward your husband?’ My an- swer was,‘None, for he is so difficult to live with.’ The sister softly said,‘Selma, who is trying to be a Christian here? You or Steve?’ Realizing that I needed to adjust my thinking, I prayed to Jehovah to help me be more loving toward Steve. Slowly, things started to change.” After 17 years, Steve accepted the truth."

First of all the glory belongs to Jehovah as he communicates through his Holy Word .

Jesus teaches us " Why do you look at the splinter in your brothers eye, when there is a log in your own eye"

" first remove the log from your own eyes and then you will see how to remove the splinter from your brothers"

So in removing the log from our own eyes, it means being responsible for our own behavior before God , as we learn Gods righteous requirement for ourselves we begin to see we need constant readjustment and we begin to see how hard it is to be 'good'

This makes us more compassionate towards others as we realize how much effort and how hard it is to turn the other cheek...So then one can love the other person with UNDERSTANDING..and LOVE has a way of melting another's heart.

[Same Sophie]

little lamb wrote:

<quoted text>
First of all the glory belongs to Jehovah as he communicates through his Holy Word .
Jesus teaches us " Why do you look at the splinter in your brothers eye, when there is a log in your own eye"
" first remove the log from your own eyes and then you will see how to remove the splinter from your brothers"
So in removing the log from our own eyes, it means being responsible for our own behavior before God , as we learn Gods righteous requirement for ourselves we begin to see we need constant readjustment and we begin to see how hard it is to be 'good'
This makes us more compassionate towards others as we realize how much effort and how hard it is to turn the other cheek...So then one can love the other person with UNDERSTANDING..and LOVE has a way of melting another's heart.

Actually most studies show that an abusive spouse very rarely changes...even worst is knowing that women in an abusive relationship tend to go back to their abusive spouses an average of 9 times before finally leaving completely...

Nobody should encourage another to persist in an abusive relationship, specially in a physically abusive one...there is really no excuse for violence...

I do want to point out that nowhere is it stated whether the relationship was abusive or not...it's just hard for me to imagine telling anybody in that situation to turn the other cheek....

[little lamb]

Same Sophie wrote:

<quoted text>
Actually most studies show that an abusive spouse very rarely changes...even worst is knowing that women in an abusive relationship tend to go back to their abusive spouses an average of 9 times before finally leaving completely...
Nobody should encourage another to persist in an abusive relationship, specially in a physically abusive one...there is really no excuse for violence...
I do want to point out that nowhere is it stated whether the relationship was abusive or not...it's just hard for me to imagine telling anybody in that situation to turn the other cheek....

I just have to look at Jesus Sophie ..to answer you

He came to us whilst we were all sinners..and he took the slaps in the face, the spit and the humiliation things..and I know that it was because of him and his willing not to use violence in retaliation AT THAT STAGE..that he conquered and brought many people to God.

So we are not won to God through violent means, we are won to God through passive resistance and LOVE..we are called to be disciples of God in the world

So thats why Jesus tells you to sit down and weigh up the cost of being a disciple of his..because it means picking up your cross and following him..and we are promised God will never tempt us beyond what we can bear..

Its the husband in this case that is the one in the precarious position..because Jehovah defends his own " vengeance is mine says Jehovah I WILL REPAY"

[jace]

unlisted wrote:

if he hit her once she should walk away and not look back!!! and the sister? is she a counselor educated in domestic abuse to say this? and what if he did hit her again as she said he is so difficult??? what if sister came to visit and found out this woman was in the hospital or worse?
sorry a man puts hand on a woman it will happen again unless she throws him out and he has extensive counseling.

in bottomline terms the jw lade was asking , "Girl what did you do to deserve this A^$%$ Whipping"

and taking the bible she pointed out to the lady ALL THE THINGS SHE failed to do that has lead to this A#$# Whipping so in the future she needed to change in order to avoid it

see regardless of what the lady did OR DID NOT DO, bing nice or kind to her husband or not, none of it should be presented as a reason to be beaten

at the end of the day , the man was wrong and the woman did NOTHING TO DESERVE IT

wt always tries to blame folks for OTHER FOLKS ACTIONS

JW HAVE NO TRAINING IN this area of abuse beyond what they read in the wt - putting folks lives in danger all the time

[jace]

Same Sophie wrote:

<quoted text>
I do want to point out that nowhere is it stated whether the relationship was abusive or not...

it said:

"The night before, Steve had hit me"

[Same Sophie]

jace wrote:

<quoted text>
it said:
"The night before, Steve had hit me"

Just meant that a pattern of abusive behavior wasn't specifically mentioned, but I completely agree with you, even once is too many...

[Same Sophie]

jace wrote:

<quoted text>
wt always tries to blame folks for OTHER FOLKS ACTIONS

This is actually another red flag to identify an abusive partner...

[little lamb]

" What God has put together let NO MAN put asunder"

That means that the system is geared up towards DEATH..even DEATH of a marriage

Jesus has come to give us LIFE and LIFE in ABUNDANCE

That means Jesus has said there is only one reason for DIVORCE..ADULTERY

Its really lack of FAITH in Gods ability to handle any sort of persecution or violence ,a disciple of Jesus goes through

Unless people are saying women make a lesser disciple for Christ then a man can.

Because its the will of God for a man and woman to be ONE FLESH..its his will..

Once a woman comes to Christ, she is no longer alone

"I will never leave you nor desert you..says Jehovah God."

The woman who is reconciled to God through Jesus Christ has now a powerful helper on her side..the Holy Spirit..

God says his name gives us protection into which the righteous one flees..

Of course a woman who is not declared 'righteous' due to Faith in Christ, has nowhere to flee but to other humans for protection and of course "cursed in the able bodied man that makes flesh his arm"..they are cursed because men can only set up systems doomed to DEATH to a marriage.

Death rules as King ..

[Jacob Tambly]

Jacob Tambly wrote:

<quoted text>"Realizing that I needed to adjust my thinking, I prayed to Jehovah to help me be more loving toward Steve. Slowly, things started to change"

How is that placing the blame?

Childish ti the 3rd degree.

[Jacob Tambly]

sidgi wrote:

<quoted text>Well, I think you mean, how is that "not" placing the blame?

Just because she tried to save her marriage, in the illustration, doesn't mean she was to blame to begin with. Remember, it was Steve who had the change of heart. If you wish to find fault, you will. If you wish to actually think about it, you won't have a knee-jerk assessment. It wasn't suggested that she was at fault, only that perhaps she could make a positive contribution. I think it wasn't a realistic presentation. That being said, it wasn't blaming the victim, either.

sidgi

I meant not, my bad

[Same Sophie]

little lamb wrote:

" What God has put together let NO MAN put asunder"
That means that the system is geared up towards DEATH..even DEATH of a marriage
Jesus has come to give us LIFE and LIFE in ABUNDANCE
That means Jesus has said there is only one reason for DIVORCE..ADULTERY
Its really lack of FAITH in Gods ability to handle any sort of persecution or violence ,a disciple of Jesus goes through
Unless people are saying women make a lesser disciple for Christ then a man can.
Because its the will of God for a man and woman to be ONE FLESH..its his will..
Once a woman comes to Christ, she is no longer alone
"I will never leave you nor desert you..says Jehovah God."
The woman who is reconciled to God through Jesus Christ has now a powerful helper on her side..the Holy Spirit..
God says his name gives us protection into which the righteous one flees..
Of course a woman who is not declared 'righteous' due to Faith in Christ, has nowhere to flee but to other humans for protection and of course "cursed in the able bodied man that makes flesh his arm"..they are cursed because men can only set up systems doomed to DEATH to a marriage.
Death rules as King ..

Are you implying that victims of domestic violence are responsible for the abuse inflicted on them because they lack faith in Christ??? Are you seriously implying that a woman should endure abuse because if she separates from her husband she is going against God's will???...