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“Christmas ONLY for Christians!”

Since: Sep 12

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#1 Sep 25, 2012
From a discussion in CULT workbooks...

Just as Luke 2 says angels and shepherds celebrated Christ’s birthday, Christmas has always been used by Christians to honor Christ, not some ancient sun god such as the Saturnalia. So for most Christians, it is definitely Christian NOT pagan in origin. It is not darkness mixed with light but light overcoming any darkness. Ironically, although the Watchtower Society tells Jehovah’s Witnesses to oppose Christmas, they let Jehovah’s Witnesses use the names of the days of the week that are derived from paganism, such as the Scandinavian god name Thor from which “Thursday” which means Thor’s Day originated. They also use the names of months such as June that was derived from the name of the god “Juno.” For that matter, wedding rings and money also came from pagans as well, but are used with no objection by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Although some pagans have worshipped trees, the origin of the Christmas tree is not from ancient tree worship. Researchers have found notes in Medieval manuscripts which state that the tree began as the Tree of Life in early church plays about the Garden of Eden. Similarly, Santa Claus did not originate from a pagan god like Odin, a wizard of the Siberian north, or an ancient Chinese god who came down chimneys. Records prove that the original source for Santa Claus was Saint Nicholas. He headed a church at Smyrna, now in modern Turkey and wore the color red and carried a miter stick. He was famous for secretly leaving small bags with gold that poor girls used as dowry money so that they could marry instead of being sold as a slave or a concubine. After he died, his tradition of gift giving was adopted by other people. In Holland the name of Saint Nicholas became Sinter Claus, from which comes the English name Santa Claus.

There is a historical basis for the December 25th date of Christ’s birth. Justin Martyr (100-165 A.D.) wrote Marcus Aurelius that Jesus was born at Bethlehem ‘‘as you can ascertain also from the registers of the taxing.”(Apologia I, 34). Tertullian (160-250) noted “the census of Augustus—that most faithful witness of the Lord’s nativity, kept in the archives of Rome”(Against Marcion, Bk. 4, 7). Cyril of Jerusalem (348-386) asked Julius to assign Christ’s birth date “from census documents brought by Titus to Rome” from which Julius assigned the date of December 25th. Likewise, John Chrysostom who lived about 347-407 wrote that Christ’s December 25th birthday was supported by the tax or census records still existing in his day that showed their registration at Bethlehem.
Although the Watchtower Society delights in pointing out that many encyclopedias suggest that Christmas may have come from the non-Christian Saturnalia, others say it may have come from the Jewish celebration of Hanukkah. The date of Hanukkah is December 25th but that date has varied yearly since it is based on the moon. John 10:22 says that in the winter, Christ himself a Jewish rabbi, was at the Feast of Dedication, another term for Hanukkah. It is also called the Festival of Lights because it has Menorah lights, special foods, and gifts.

Regardless, the December date is attacked because of the weather. Since Luke 2:8 says shepherds were in fields at Christ’s birth, some assume Christ wasn’t born in December. However, this objection is without merit as the Jewish Mishnah Seqal. 7:4 confirms flocks were kept in fields near Bethlehem even in the winter. Israel is not extremely cold and snow is very unlikely due to the warm Mediterranean current, although it has occurred occasionally over the years. Sheep wear natural wool that keeps them warm so they can walk about even in Israel’s rare snowfalls.

Since: Aug 12

Montréal, Canada

#2 Sep 25, 2012
Please don't make another thread on a subject that was already discussed in a thread prior...

“Christmas ONLY for Christians!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#3 Sep 25, 2012
Finally, Colossians 2:16 says: “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.” ** The Bible is telling us that as Christians, we are not to be judged over holidays. Christmas celebrates Christ’s birthday and with its coming in winter, it is excellent for breaking winter blues or depression. Its happy memories are in line with the fruits of love and joy (Galatians 5:22). Happy memories are needed to help build happy families. So, if you are a Jehovah’s Witness or an Ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses, you can feel Scripturally and morally free to celebrate Christmas along with the rest of the Christian community.

“Christmas ONLY for Christians!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#4 Sep 25, 2012
MakesTheTruthHisOwn wrote:
Please don't make another thread on a subject that was already discussed in a thread prior...
There's at least 300 threads that would apply to this request.

Get real!

Since: Aug 12

Montréal, Canada

#5 Sep 25, 2012
Bite My Jehovah wrote:
<quoted text>
There's at least 300 threads that would apply to this request.
Get real!
This is exactly my point. You get real; There's no need to begin another thread when there are so many other more recent ones that are already made.

Since: Aug 12

Montréal, Canada

#6 Sep 25, 2012
Your information is pertinent but would be more applicable if applied to the other thread on the subject is all I'm saying.

“Christmas ONLY for Christians!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#7 Sep 25, 2012
MakesTheTruthHisOwn wrote:
Your information is pertinent but would be more applicable if applied to the other thread on the subject is all I'm saying.
While you are entitled to your opinion.

I don't think so.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#8 Sep 25, 2012
Christmas is a collection of pagan rituals, that were created for false gods, performed in the name of Jesus.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#9 Sep 25, 2012
MakesTheTruthHisOwn wrote:
<quoted text>
This is exactly my point. You get real; There's no need to begin another thread when there are so many other more recent ones that are already made.
.
. the words ( Don't tell me..what to do ) float through my brain.. in other words.. they are free to Post on any subject they choose.. If it isn't to your liking ..OH WELL!!

Since: Aug 12

Montréal, Canada

#10 Sep 25, 2012
unfortunately there aren't any forum moderators here to clean up the refuse.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#11 Sep 25, 2012
*** Deut 18:9 When you have come into the land which Jehovah your God gives you, you shall not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.

Does God enjoy celebrations he did not ask for that contain PAGAN elements?

*** Exod 32:4 He received what they handed him, and fashioned it with an engraving tool, and made it a molten calf; and they said, "These are your gods, Israel, which brought you up out of the land of Egypt."

Remember this? But ah! you cry!! That was a celebration to false gods you cry!!

Indeed Jehovah saw it as EXACTLY that but did Aaron and the people of Israel call it a pagan celebration? Or did they say they were celebrating Jehovah?

Who did Aaron dedicate the celebration to?

*** Exod 32:5 hen Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made a proclamation, and said, "Tomorrow shall be a feast to Jehovah."

It was a celebration to Jehovah their God!! It was pagan in origin but they REDEDICATED the pagan practice and put Jehovah's name on it!

Was Jehovah pleased at their desire to celebrate him in this new way using old, pagan methods?

Let's take a look:

*** Exod 32:10 Now therefore leave me alone, that my wrath may burn hot against them, and that I may consume them; " ...

Hmmmm, not too pleased....

No. God does not like unasked for celebrations in pagan clothing.

That means do not celebrate Jesus with an evergreen tree brought into the house.
That means do not celebrate Jesus with gift giving and overindulgence (taken from the pagan Saturnalia).
That means do not celebrate Jesus in December 25th (replacing celebration of the rebirth of the sun god on that day)
That means do not celebrate Jesus with mistletoe, holly or ivy.
That means do not celebrate Jesus with pretty much ANY of the Christmas traditions.

Because 99% of them are worshipful celebrations to pagan gods, performed in the name of Jesus.
dr of religion

Winnetka, IL

#12 Sep 25, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
Christmas is a collection of pagan rituals, that were created for false gods, performed in the name of Jesus.
Like weddings,wedding rings,wedding anniverserys, days of the week are all pagan yet jw's use them why?

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#13 Sep 25, 2012
dr of religion wrote:
Like weddings,wedding rings,wedding anniverserys, days of the week are all pagan yet jw's use them why?
None of those things are worshipful pagan celebrations to false gods.

There is nothing wrong with something just because it is pagan. It is pagan worship to false gods that you need to avoid.

Wearing a wedding ring is no different from wearing shoe laces. They are both worn by pagans. So what?

Just because shoelaces are worn by pagans that is no reason why a Christian can't wear shoelaces.

Same with wedding rings.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#14 Sep 25, 2012
MakesTheTruthHisOwn wrote:
unfortunately there aren't any forum moderators here to clean up the refuse.
.
. Meaning.. no GB to tell you what to think... say and do..?
.
. When one has a conversation with another.. You should not expect that you will agree on everything.. Nor should you expect them to change their mind ..on the subject.. First off ..we were to do our own discerning.. And ..that is generally not done when one thinks they ...and only they... have it all figured out and stamp it as truth.. And it would be a rather boring conversation ..redundant indeed .. if everyone was always in total agreement.. Amazingly .. We all bring stuff to the table.. And often..we take away something that we were not aware of.. to research...

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#15 Sep 25, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
None of those things are worshipful pagan celebrations to false gods.
There is nothing wrong with something just because it is pagan. It is pagan worship to false gods that you need to avoid.
Wearing a wedding ring is no different from wearing shoe laces. They are both worn by pagans. So what?
Just because shoelaces are worn by pagans that is no reason why a Christian can't wear shoelaces.
Same with wedding rings.
.
. Well.. you've figured that out.. Stangely .. you still have a long way to go.. As what may in your mind ..be wrong and pagan .. means..that for you ...example.. Don't eat meat.. only vegetables..
But. you know what?? WE all have to do what we feel is right.. maybe someone does look at a day as being more important then another.. THAT ..is his right.. And WE ..aren't to judge it..
dr of religion

Winnetka, IL

#16 Sep 25, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
None of those things are worshipful pagan celebrations to false gods.
There is nothing wrong with something just because it is pagan. It is pagan worship to false gods that you need to avoid.
Wearing a wedding ring is no different from wearing shoe laces. They are both worn by pagans. So what?
Just because shoelaces are worn by pagans that is no reason why a Christian can't wear shoelaces.
Same with wedding rings.
Days of the week are all pagan gods.Weddings are pagan traditions. Yet you say christmss is evil? Your first president charlie russel celebrated christmass,easter and birthdays happily.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#17 Sep 25, 2012
Maravilla wrote:
But. you know what?? WE all have to do what we feel is right..
We all have to do what God feels is right because we have a tendency towards sin.

The only thing stopping you people seeing Christmas as wrong in God's eyes is that you don't want to give it up. You are 'addicted' to Christmas. Giving it up is awkward and you like the illusion of comfort it provides.

Its like asking a child to give up candy. The child will complain and argue and cry, but the candy is still does nothing good for the child.

When you look at Christmas for what it is though, it is clearly unacceptable for a Christian to get involved.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#18 Sep 25, 2012
dr of religion wrote:
Days of the week are all pagan gods.
So? We don't celebrate days of the week as an act of worship to God.
dr of religion wrote:
Weddings are pagan traditions.
So?

Weddings are not acts of worship to God.
dr of religion wrote:
Yet you say christmss is evil?
Christmas is a collection of rituals that were created to be performed for pagan gods that are now performed in Christ's name.

Of course that is the product of evil.
dr of religion wrote:
Your first president charlie russel celebrated christmass,easter and birthdays happily.
Yes. But with knowledge comes responsibility. God does not punish us for sinning, he punishes us for sinning WILLFULLY.

Now we all KNOW what Christmas is. Now we have no excuse.
dr of religion

Winnetka, IL

#19 Sep 25, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
So? We don't celebrate days of the week as an act of worship to God.
<quoted text>
So?
Weddings are not acts of worship to God.
<quoted text>
Christmas is a collection of rituals that were created to be performed for pagan gods that are now performed in Christ's name.
Of course that is the product of evil.
<quoted text>
Yes. But with knowledge comes responsibility. God does not punish us for sinning, he punishes us for sinning WILLFULLY.
Now we all KNOW what Christmas is. Now we have no excuse.
Well gareth,back then charlie said jesus came down invisibly and approved all charlie was doing at that time which was celebrating all holidays,having a cross on all his book covers.Did jesus change his mind or did your second president old drunken joe rutherford?

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#20 Sep 25, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
We all have to do what God feels is right because we have a tendency towards sin.
The only thing stopping you people seeing Christmas as wrong in God's eyes is that you don't want to give it up. You are 'addicted' to Christmas. Giving it up is awkward and you like the illusion of comfort it provides.
Its like asking a child to give up candy. The child will complain and argue and cry, but the candy is still does nothing good for the child.
When you look at Christmas for what it is though, it is clearly unacceptable for a Christian to get involved.
.
. Guess what garth.. I.. don't celebrated Christmas.. But I can see the Pro..and Cons.. And I have observed others that do.. And I've seen a rather diversified manner in which it is done.. Some people go all out with the decorating.. And some get lugged off with the buying of material things.. but you know what.. It's their business.. Others like the concerts and music.. it makes then feel good.. Witnesses on the other hand...complain about it.. And the fact that the stores get decorated long before December.. OR they go out and buy presents and give then befor or after.. I'm surprized that they don't do the same with wedding presents.. Personally.. There are things that are needed for the winter season.. And I buy them.. but.. Fuel is an expense of the winter season and to me .that... takes priority over non.necessary gifts.. This season..at the present time fuel is going for around $4.00 a gal..here.. No telling what it might get up to..

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