Matthew 10:28- the REAL meaning

Matthew 10:28- the REAL meaning

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“Church Dogma - Coprolite.”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#1 Jan 7, 2013
Matt 10:28- And do not be afraid of those who kill [Gk "apokteino"] the body but cannot kill [Gk "apokteino"]
the soul; but rather be afraid of Him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

Gk "apokteino" has two similar, but DIFFERENT meanings:

Strong's: from kteino (to slay). Definition: to kill in any way whatever to destroy, to allow to perish , and is used by religion in metaphors.

"do not be afraid of those who (kill, or destroy) the body"
"but cannot (kill or destroy) the soul"

Which meaning that's chosen is based on what you believe.
The SAME WORD means either to kill OR to destroy- two similar but DIFFERENT things!

Man can and DOES kill another soul - as shown MANY times in the Bible.

The Soul is us as a person- men kill us, but only God can DESTROY us (Lake of Fire).

That's why Jesus referred to the dead as "SLEEPING"- since he knew he would be resurrecting them at God's Appointed Time.

REMEMBER- even HERE we're shown the soul is NOT 'immortal', since God CAN destroy it!

CONCLUSION: Jesus's words SHOULD read: "but cannot DESTROY the soul"- for Only God can do THAT, while showing man DOES "kill" it throughout the Bible!

Since: Aug 12

Montréal, Canada

#2 Jan 7, 2013
You forgot a few pieces of information....

1) to kill in any way whatever
a) to destroy, to allow to perish
2) metaph. to extinguish, abolish
a) to inflict mortal death
>>>>b) to deprive of spiritual life and procure eternal misery in hell<<<<<

You are created as a physical man. The body(flesh, blood, and mind) is your temple. The soul however is a possession in difference to the body. You can live without a soul, you cannot live without a body in your physical existence.

The soul is your spiritual life therefore if you don't feed the soul it doesn't exist and if you live a life contrary to the divine nature of the soul then it can be taken away from you ie: "to deprive of spiritual life".

The body cannot enter into heaven, only the soul therefore if you don't develop the soul or it's taken away from you then you cannot enter into the Kingdom therefore when you die there is no coming back.

Since: Aug 12

Montréal, Canada

#3 Jan 7, 2013
thus the soul can be immortal but it can be taken away from you if you don't deserve it. Without the soul there is no life after death.

“Church Dogma - Coprolite.”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#4 Jan 7, 2013
No- the metaphors are religion- not the word meaning.

The soul is the living being, whether spirit or human, and is sometimes used in reference to the life itself.

The Bible OFTEN tells of souls killing souls.(Men killing men)

“Church Dogma - Coprolite.”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#5 Jan 7, 2013
As in "Ol' King Cole was a merry ol' soul..."

"Soul" was Old English "person".

Since: Aug 12

Montréal, Canada

#6 Jan 8, 2013
the Mad JW wrote:
No- the metaphors are religion- not the word meaning.
The soul is the living being, whether spirit or human, and is sometimes used in reference to the life itself.
The Bible OFTEN tells of souls killing souls.(Men killing men)
Metaphors are grammar and the Hebrew language uses these constructs to convey a meaning. Or are you saying that the OT has no metaphor constructs?

When God breathed into Adam he became a "living soul" therefore prior to the breath Adam was a "dead soul". Therefore the spirit is obviously not connected to the soul but actuates the body.

Now Here we have the body, blood, mind(conciousness). Is your position that the word soul constitutes one of these, all of these or something different?

Indeed some scriptures use the word soul to indicate that man killed man. This is understandable because the language use of the word can constitute the life of a person. Especially since the writers didn't have much prior knowledge of all the components that made up a human being both physical and spiritual.

But other texts use the word soul differently as in 1st Kings of the resurrection of the boy. So the word spans across different meanings and yes, even metaphors of the base meaning itself.

Since: Aug 12

Montréal, Canada

#7 Jan 8, 2013
Otherwise lets do some word substitute here:

1Kings 17:22
"And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived."

Can it read?
"And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the "spirit?" of the child came into him again, and he revived."

Can it read?
"And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the "body?" of the child came into him again, and he revived."

Can it read?
"And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the "blood?" of the child came into him again, and he revived."

Can it read?
"And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the "mind?" of the child came into him again, and he revived."

Can it read?
"And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the "personality?" of the child came into him again, and he revived."

Can it read?
"And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the "will?" of the child came into him again, and he revived."

Can it read?
"And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the "person?" of the child came into him again, and he revived."

what say you?

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#8 Jan 8, 2013
MakesTheTruthHisOwn wrote:
Otherwise lets do some word substitute here:
1Kings 17:22
"And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived."
Can it read?
"And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the "spirit?" of the child came into him again, and he revived."
Can it read?
"And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the "body?" of the child came into him again, and he revived."
Can it read?
"And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the "blood?" of the child came into him again, and he revived."
Can it read?
"And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the "mind?" of the child came into him again, and he revived."
Can it read?
"And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the "personality?" of the child came into him again, and he revived."
Can it read?
"And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the "will?" of the child came into him again, and he revived."
Can it read?
"And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the "person?" of the child came into him again, and he revived."
what say you?
Word substitutes don't always work, do they? No, of course not. Now, when the 'soul' of the child came back in him, does it mean that the ('his') soul was a separate entity, thinking and feeling, or thinking and not feeling by fleshly nerves and brain connected tissue, waiting around to go somewhere after it 'left' the child since it came into him again? My answer -- no, it does not mean that. Now what say you about that?

“Church Dogma - Coprolite.”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#9 Jan 8, 2013
The metaphors don't over-ride the actual meaning of the word, and Jesus said man can't (kill/destroy) the soul. That it's not immortal is shown when he says God CAN destroy it.

Man CAN'T, even tho the Bible refers to how men (souls) are always killing OTHER men (souls).

That would be more apparent if translations were as honest as the New World Translation- and would consistantly render the Hebrew and greek words as "soul" , instead of a "soul, person, man, woman, child, animal, etc"...

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#10 Jan 8, 2013
Lets look at the parallel verse.

Luke 12:4-5
King James Version (KJV)

4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

According to these passages,(men) can NOT put you in Hell. If Hell was ONLY the grave, well, men put other men in the grave daily.

Tell us exactly what it is that Jehovah puts in Hell?

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#11 Jan 8, 2013
Hows about this one?

2 Peter 2:4
King James Version (KJV)

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

“Church Dogma - Coprolite.”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#12 Jan 8, 2013
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahhah!
Parallel verses?
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

DDCs certainly have GOTTEN what they've paid for!

“Church Dogma - Coprolite.”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#13 Jan 8, 2013
(One unrelated parable, and one unrelated, and poorly translated reference to angels)

Since: Aug 12

Montréal, Canada

#14 Jan 8, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
Word substitutes don't always work, do they? No, of course not. Now, when the 'soul' of the child came back in him, does it mean that the ('his') soul was a separate entity, thinking and feeling, or thinking and not feeling by fleshly nerves and brain connected tissue, waiting around to go somewhere after it 'left' the child since it came into him again? My answer -- no, it does not mean that. Now what say you about that?
It's a little bit more complicated than that. I apologize I'm neck deep in resource management right now and my phone is ringing off the hook. I'll get back to this asap.

“Church Dogma - Coprolite.”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#15 Jan 8, 2013
Look forward to it. But- its NOT!
Watchman

London, KY

#16 Jan 8, 2013
the Mad JW wrote:
Matt 10:28- And do not be afraid of those who kill [Gk "apokteino"] the body but cannot kill [Gk "apokteino"]
the soul; but rather be afraid of Him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
Gk "apokteino" has two similar, but DIFFERENT meanings:
Strong's: from kteino (to slay). Definition: to kill in any way whatever to destroy, to allow to perish , and is used by religion in metaphors.
"do not be afraid of those who (kill, or destroy) the body"
"but cannot (kill or destroy) the soul"
Which meaning that's chosen is based on what you believe.
The SAME WORD means either to kill OR to destroy- two similar but DIFFERENT things!
Man can and DOES kill another soul - as shown MANY times in the Bible.
The Soul is us as a person- men kill us, but only God can DESTROY us (Lake of Fire).
That's why Jesus referred to the dead as "SLEEPING"- since he knew he would be resurrecting them at God's Appointed Time.
REMEMBER- even HERE we're shown the soul is NOT 'immortal', since God CAN destroy it!
CONCLUSION: Jesus's words SHOULD read: "but cannot DESTROY the soul"- for Only God can do THAT, while showing man DOES "kill" it throughout the Bible!
And in Rev. 20:14 God tells us exactly what the SECOND DEATH is.
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH."

Since: Aug 12

Ottawa, Canada

#17 Jan 9, 2013
Watchman wrote:
<quoted text>
And in Rev. 20:14 God tells us exactly what the SECOND DEATH is.
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH."
wow I never read it that way but that makes all kinds of sense.
little lamb

Australia

#18 Jan 9, 2013
Scripture is quite clear..

God loved the world so much he sent his only begotten son, that whomsoever exercises faith in him, shall not PERISH but have everlasting life."

Perishing is what happens to a man who doesn't have Christ in HIM..He PERISHES like a piece of fruit perishes from within comes the seeds of destruction.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#19 Jan 9, 2013
MakesTheTruthHisOwn wrote:
thus the soul can be immortal but it can be taken away from you if you don't deserve it. Without the soul there is no life after death.
The soul is the life of the individual. It is false teachings that want to tell us that a conscious, sentient (or not, depending on outlook) being that lives inside a body leaves the body after death. The Bible, God's word, tells me upon careful study (and help from the WTBTS) that the word for soul means life, closely connected with "breather," or breathing thing.

Animals are souls. I doubt they will attain to immortality, however. I say that facetiously, of course. I also doubt they will be resurrected and have to think about whether or not they're going to the "second death."
Watchman

London, KY

#20 Jan 9, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
The soul is the life of the individual. It is false teachings that want to tell us that a conscious, sentient (or not, depending on outlook) being that lives inside a body leaves the body after death. The Bible, God's word, tells me upon careful study (and help from the WTBTS) that the word for soul means life, closely connected with "breather," or breathing thing.
Animals are souls. I doubt they will attain to immortality, however. I say that facetiously, of course. I also doubt they will be resurrected and have to think about whether or not they're going to the "second death."
Bible states it thus: "Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS the second death." Now let us turn this around for clarity. "The second death- IS death and hell cast into the lake of fire." Therefore we have exactly the same meaning either way it is stated. What is the second death? It is the first death and hell cast into the lake of fire! This fact is very IMPORTANT.
The second death is not merely the lake of fire. The second death is not men being tortured forever in the lake of fire. The Holy Spirit has made it very simple and plain.

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