107-year-old Holocaust survivor, Jehovah's Witness is star of 'Ladder in the Lions' Den' documentary

Nov 13, 2012 Full story: LA Daily News 42

12, 2012. The film depicts Engleitner s life as a Jehovah s Witness in Nazi concentration camps.

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jace

Clinton, MD

#1 Nov 13, 2012
This man's amazing story is a part of the sad history of how men can treat one another as shown by Hitler.

I often ask jw when the subject of Concentration camps come up. What it a good thing that my Granddad and many other men went to the Army during WWII and were able to save this man along with many others

and it is interesting to see the Deer in the Headlight look of the avg jw, where he knows it was by folks like my Granddad that anyone got out alive as they risk their own lives and how that if the tables were reversed my grand dad would have died waiting for a JW to get there

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#2 Nov 13, 2012
What a story. Going to watch it for sure.
jace

Clinton, MD

#3 Nov 13, 2012
Hitler did not believe that OTHERS should have the freedom to worship as they pleased without being Denigrated, belittle or called names or advancing the idea that they should Die for being different from him

in many western countries folks like my granddad put their lives on the line so that others who may have believed differently from him growing up in Rural NC could have such freedom.

Yet is it not amazing how NO ONE JW WOULD HAVE RISK THEIR LIFE for him?
little lamb

Australia

#4 Nov 13, 2012
Yeah..was watching the show with Ross Kemp embedded with the American army in Afghanistan.

saw how the fellows were living , getting diarrhea, out breaks , every now and then because of poor sanitary facilities

Watched how they had to wear full battle clothing in 40 degree heat..

Then watched then patrol on land that had killed three of their comrades previous, and for what?

As they paroled along they talked to locals, and the soldier tried to show his friendliness by shaking hands, and the civilian used his left hand only in shaking

The army bloke told Ross thats their Sh't hand..and were insulting the guy whilst smiling at him..calling him by that action a 'piece of sh't'

And as they were paroling through , Ross pointed out the civilians that were sitting there looking and smirking at them , that they were probably some of the Tali ban..

Then there is this big American company doing their patrols in front of their enemy day in and day out ,watching their patrol routes and rhey at least have the sense to camouflage themselves , but not the Americans , there they are with a big cross marked on them.."Shot here" "we are living targets", for you .

And I thought how vulnerable are these guys for allowing any government to make them sitting ducks. for being crippled, killed and set off mentally by the stupidity of it all.

So lets see according to Jace these people are risking their lives to set this Islamic country on its feet, and whilst also providing this country with 'billions' of war machines, to use on who? when Islamics take control by democratic means and not sectarian means..either way the enemy of the west benefits whilst Americans are trying to recover from Sandy..wheres the sense of it all?

Since: Sep 11

Brantford, Canada

#5 Nov 13, 2012
jace wrote:
This man's amazing story is a part of the sad history of how men can treat one another as shown by Hitler.
I often ask jw when the subject of Concentration camps come up. What it a good thing that my Granddad and many other men went to the Army during WWII and were able to save this man along with many others
and it is interesting to see the Deer in the Headlight look of the avg jw, where he knows it was by folks like my Granddad that anyone got out alive as they risk their own lives and how that if the tables were reversed my grand dad would have died waiting for a JW to get there
That's a great question
MAMMON

United States

#6 Nov 13, 2012
I watched the end of Ban of Brothers, the HBO series today. It shows them going into one of the concentration camps. I highly recommend anyone watch it that hasn't seen it

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#7 Nov 13, 2012
For the record, there are/were conscientious objectors to war that refuse on grounds other than "Christian neutrality". I was one of them. I just have always believed that it is wrong to take up a weapon and kill someone on the other side of the world in a war. This was before I was even dedicated or baptized.
jace

Clinton, MD

#8 Nov 13, 2012
Stingo wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a great question
the jw is always put between a rock and a hard place when it comes to jw theology on many issues

and you just feel sorry for them

Since: Sep 11

Brantford, Canada

#9 Nov 13, 2012
acrobat wrote:
For the record, there are/were conscientious objectors to war that refuse on grounds other than "Christian neutrality". I was one of them. I just have always believed that it is wrong to take up a weapon and kill someone on the other side of the world in a war. This was before I was even dedicated or baptized.
I hate war. I hate every aspect of it. It's all about religion, and that makes me ill. In my opinion, getting rid of religion would get rid of war. But when 9/11 hit, I went right to the army and tried to recruit. I would have done anything, and still would to protect our way of life. Sure am glad they talked me out of it though. They said I was too old. Jeez, I was still in my 20's, barely
jace

Clinton, MD

#10 Nov 13, 2012
acrobat wrote:
For the record, there are/were conscientious objectors to war that refuse on grounds other than "Christian neutrality". I was one of them. I just have always believed that it is wrong to take up a weapon and kill someone on the other side of the world in a war. This was before I was even dedicated or baptized.
Question?

Do you condemn those who went to the army as sinning and freed the folks in the concentration camps, like the jw do?
jace

Clinton, MD

#11 Nov 13, 2012
little lamb wrote:
So lets see --------according to Jace these people are risking their lives to set this Islamic country on its feet, and whilst also providing this country with 'billions' of war machines, to use on who? when Islamics take control by democratic means and not sectarian means..either way the enemy of the west benefits whilst Americans are trying to recover from Sandy..wheres the sense of it all?
Quick question- you said:

"So lets see -according to Jace these people are risking their lives to set this Islamic country on its feet"???

#######

Would you be so kind as to point out IN MY post where i was discussing anything about an "islamic country"??

Hitler was not a Muslium to my knowledge- do you have any information that says so otherwise???

, if so please post it I would enjoy reading it

thanks

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#12 Nov 13, 2012
little lamb wrote:
Yeah..was watching the show with Ross Kemp embedded with the American army in Afghanistan.
saw how the fellows were living , getting diarrhea, out breaks , every now and then because of poor sanitary facilities
Watched how they had to wear full battle clothing in 40 degree heat..
Then watched then patrol on land that had killed three of their comrades previous, and for what?
As they paroled along they talked to locals, and the soldier tried to show his friendliness by shaking hands, and the civilian used his left hand only in shaking
The army bloke told Ross thats their Sh't hand..and were insulting the guy whilst smiling at him..calling him by that action a 'piece of sh't'
And as they were paroling through , Ross pointed out the civilians that were sitting there looking and smirking at them , that they were probably some of the Tali ban..
Then there is this big American company doing their patrols in front of their enemy day in and day out ,watching their patrol routes and rhey at least have the sense to camouflage themselves , but not the Americans , there they are with a big cross marked on them.."Shot here" "we are living targets", for you .
And I thought how vulnerable are these guys for allowing any government to make them sitting ducks. for being crippled, killed and set off mentally by the stupidity of it all.
So lets see according to Jace these people are risking their lives to set this Islamic country on its feet, and whilst also providing this country with 'billions' of war machines, to use on who? when Islamics take control by democratic means and not sectarian means..either way the enemy of the west benefits whilst Americans are trying to recover from Sandy..wheres the sense of it all?
you never answered the question. do you think it improper that others risked their lives to free those in concentration camps, do you think God used them to help free the JW, or was it that he parted the gates, and just let them out.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#13 Nov 13, 2012
jace wrote:
<quoted text>
Question?
Do you condemn those who went to the army as sinning and freed the folks in the concentration camps, like the jw do?
I don't recall condemning anyone, do you?

I just wanted you to know that not everyone who has ever objected to war did so because they were of the JW faith. Maybe I didn't need to say it, I guess it's rather obvious.

Having said that though, you do realize that the average male JW in the concentration camp is there because he's a conscientious objector, refusing to join Hitler's military campaign, right?

So it's a bit of a cyclical argument, in a way.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#14 Nov 13, 2012
Stingo wrote:
<quoted text>
I hate war. I hate every aspect of it. It's all about religion, and that makes me ill. In my opinion, getting rid of religion would get rid of war.
You're far off the mark here at all, and I certainly have felt many times that the world would be a much better place without religious differences.
Stingo wrote:
<quoted text>
But when 9/11 hit, I went right to the army and tried to recruit. I would have done anything, and still would to protect our way of life.
I hate to say it but at that particular moment you would have been horribly misguided to do so, and so was every other recruit who enlisted "to protect our way of life". Just my opinion.

Since: Sep 11

Brantford, Canada

#15 Nov 13, 2012
acrobat wrote:
<quoted text>
You're far off the mark here at all, and I certainly have felt many times that the world would be a much better place without differences.
<quoted text>
I hate to say it but at that particular moment you would have been horribly misguided to do so, and so was every other recruit who enlisted "to protect our way of life". Just my opinion.
I took one word out of your reply. That makes me agree with it 100%

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#16 Nov 13, 2012
Correction: I meant to say "You're *not* far off the mark"

Wait, you took out "religious".

You don't think that at the core of pretty much every difference people have one another, is religion? I've very often been of this opinion. Even strife that seems ethnic usually traces back to the religious beliefs those ethnicities hold..

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#17 Nov 13, 2012
Gah, I'm getting tired.

"at the core of pretty much every difference people have *with* one another"

Since: Sep 11

Brantford, Canada

#18 Nov 13, 2012
acrobat wrote:
Correction: I meant to say "You're *not* far off the mark"
Wait, you took out "religious".
You don't think that at the core of pretty much every difference people have one another, is religion? I've very often been of this opinion. Even strife that seems ethnic usually traces back to the religious beliefs those ethnicities hold..
I couldn't agree more
Remnant143999

Rio Rancho, NM

#19 Nov 13, 2012
jace wrote:
This man's amazing story is a part of the sad history of how men can treat one another as shown by Hitler.
I often ask jw when the subject of Concentration camps come up. What it a good thing that my Granddad and many other men went to the Army during WWII and were able to save this man along with many others
and it is interesting to see the Deer in the Headlight look of the avg jw, where he knows it was by folks like my Granddad that anyone got out alive as they risk their own lives and how that if the tables were reversed my grand dad would have died waiting for a JW to get there
You can't believe how men can treat another as shown by Hitler. How about the wtbts treating their own members,you either obey or your out! The wtbts doesnt care if disfellowshiping sends a brother or sister into a deep depresion or loses all their relationship with old friends or relatives or even if it drives them to suicide! Like Hitler it's al about control!
Florida Sunshine

Jacksonville, FL

#20 Nov 14, 2012
Even though I disagree with this dangerous cult, I can't wait to watch this sad story..This looks interesting.

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