Finished Mystery (1917)... The book t...

Finished Mystery (1917)... The book that Jesus approved...

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Since: Nov 11

Edwardsville, IL

#1 Nov 11, 2012
If you want to know how Charles Taze Russell, founder and 'inspired' faithful servant of Jehovah God wrote... here is a website which highlights major points, topics and 'facts' from his inspired writings...
Here are just a few. click on the link below for more.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bi...

1.Charles Taze Russell is the faithful and wise servant (p.4)

2.Jesus gave Russell the key to understanding God’s mysteries in the last days (p.6)

3.Jesus is the Alpha and Omega in Revelation 1:8; 21:6 and 22:13 (p.15, p.318, p.336)

4.The Adventist Nelson Barbour showed Russell Biblical proof that Jesus was present since 1874 and Russell found this evidence satisfactory (p. 54)

5.As per Russell, there’s no need to learn the Hebrew or Greek languages to gain a correct understanding of the Bible since the Presbyterians and Methodists have good versions of the Bible at reasonable prices (p. 55)

6.The remnant will be taken to heaven in 1918 (p. 64)

7.The 7 messengers in Revelation are Paul, John, Ario, Waldo, Wycliffe, Luther and Russell (illustration after page 64)

8.The 7 trumpets in Revelation 8:2 are the trumpets of the Lutherans, the Anglicans, the Presbyterians, the Baptists, the Methodists, the Evangelical Alliance and The Bible Students (chart after page 64)

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#2 Nov 11, 2012
You might find this video helpful, Becky. In the following video, Jesus quotes from The Finished Mystery and explains why he chose the Watchtower.

Since: Nov 11

Edwardsville, IL

#4 Nov 14, 2012
Admiral Kolchak wrote:
You might find this video helpful, Becky. In the following video, Jesus quotes from The Finished Mystery and explains why he chose the Watchtower.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =jeSPKydgIzUXX
Yeah I saw that... too humorous, pathetic and sad all at once.

Since: Nov 11

Edwardsville, IL

#5 Nov 14, 2012
YKN0T wrote:
When the 'Finished Mystery' was compiled Russell was already dead....
The primary authors are Clayton Woodworth and George Fisher.
Keep in mind the 1st edition was altered in hopes of appeasing government officials when Rutherford and gang were facing sedition charges.
I believe a copy on archive.org has the 'cut' pages included at the end of the pdf.
Makes no difference, whoever started it and finished show themselves to be delusional and facilitators of delusion in its worst form.
Do you agree with the blasphemous and mentally unstable things he claims in there and which others continued on in the publishing of it? If you do, then you are just as mentally and spiritually messed up as they were.

Since: Nov 11

Edwardsville, IL

#6 Nov 14, 2012
Admiral Kolchak wrote:
You might find this video helpful, Becky. In the following video, Jesus quotes from The Finished Mystery and explains why he chose the Watchtower.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =jeSPKydgIzUXX
I have to ask... Are you in the military as your avatar and name suggests or is that just a symbol for something? Just curious.

“Bustin' Myths”

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#8 Nov 15, 2012
YKN0T wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheist would say the same about all religion and the religious publications they have produced over the period of mankind.....
Blasphemy is subject to interpretation and thus you are entitled to your discernment and others to theirs.
I find it interesting you make personal statements that seek to insult like the non-jw defenders I see on this forum....I guess I don't understand the emotional charge yall seem to get....do you feel it is an effective bait?
Do insults ever create receptive responses?
Maybe it would be better for you to work through and make peace with whatever it is about the JWs that has caused you to be so emotional and quick to insult.....
You didn't answer the question.

"Do you agree with the blasphemous and mentally unstable things he claims in there and which others continued on in the publishing of it?"

I believe you know why people are upset about jws yknot.

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#9 Nov 15, 2012
beckyss wrote:
<quoted text>
I have to ask... Are you in the military as your avatar and name suggests or is that just a symbol for something? Just curious.
Not in the military, Beckyss. However, I've studied a lot of Russian history and read several books about Admiral Kolchak. Thus the choice for my avatar.

Since: Nov 11

Edwardsville, IL

#11 Nov 15, 2012
YKN0T wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheist would say the same about all religion and the religious publications they have produced over the period of mankind.....
Blasphemy is subject to interpretation and thus you are entitled to your discernment and others to theirs.
I find it interesting you make personal statements that seek to insult like the non-jw defenders I see on this forum....I guess I don't understand the emotional charge yall seem to get....do you feel it is an effective bait?
Do insults ever create receptive responses?
Maybe it would be better for you to work through and make peace with whatever it is about the JWs that has caused you to be so emotional and quick to insult.....
First, If I have insulted you personally I extend an apology to you. It is never my intention to insult any person personally. I should have reworded my statement to read...if you believe the these things this unstable man wrote, then you too would be spiritually and mentally unstable too if you believe his writings". This would be more of an observation rather than an insult. I do not consciously insult people on a personal level. I do not however have an issue with pointing out obvious characteristics about a belief system which I see is based on delusions of one man. And it is.
By the way, Why would you use the athiests as an example of who would disagree with all other religions... Their disagreement would be against yours as well as mine based on the fact that we believe in the Same God. They do not understand God as our creator as we do and the quest of His love, salvation and one day to see His Kingdom in heaven whether it be in his heaven or here on this earth. Poor example to use.
Blasphemy is any time a person speaks against God or likens themself to God or Christ... and this is what Russell did in his writings. I suggest you read them. You may get an eye opening you are not prepared for. Do you understand that your organization does not want you to read anything spiritually based which is not of their publications because you might just see that their teachings are false in many areas.

So back to the question... Do you agree and believe his writings?
Simple yes or no will do.

Since: Nov 11

Edwardsville, IL

#12 Nov 15, 2012
Admiral Kolchak wrote:
<quoted text>
Not in the military, Beckyss. However, I've studied a lot of Russian history and read several books about Admiral Kolchak. Thus the choice for my avatar.
Very interesting. I've never heard of this Admiral.. I bet he is interesting.

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#13 Nov 15, 2012
beckyss wrote:
<quoted text>
Very interesting. I've never heard of this Admiral.. I bet he is interesting.
Admiral Kolchak was a leader of the White (anti-Communist) movement during the Russian Civil War (1918-1920). While the Communists ruled the Soviet Union Kolchak was considered the enemy. But after the fall of Communism in Russia, Kolchak is considered a hero to many. In fact they made a film about him titled, ADMIRAL. It is in Russian, but available on DVD with English sub-titles. I purchased a copy of the DVD from Amazon.

There is an excellent biography in English by Peter Fleming titled, THE FATE OF ADMIRAL KOLCHAK. You can also purchase this through Amazon.

Since: Nov 11

Edwardsville, IL

#15 Nov 18, 2012
YKN0T wrote:
<quoted text>
Beckyss,
You started this thread by suggesting Russell wrote the FM….
I asserted that Woodworth and Fisher are the primary authors; which is an accepted fact on the website (JWN) you linked.
I in no way asserted anything personal nor even religious; however you still decided to attempt to create some personal slant and I am not feeling like taking the bait. Why should I? You failed to demonstrate basic understanding of authorship of the FM and were dismissive and self-justifying when it was brought to your attention.
Your re-wording is just as insulting too and I don’t see how it is any different than the ‘with us /against us moral superiority’ tactics occasionally found in the WT publications.
I used the Atheist for the point of showing you that your interpretation isn’t necessarily anymore valid than another’s, that there is always someone who can cast equal assertions against your beliefs too.
I am happy to assure you I am very aware and versed on our history, doctrines, doctrinal development and theocratic practices/politics.
I acknowledge. http://archive.org/details/TheFinishedMystery
The Finished Mystery, first published in 1917. Advertised as the posthumous work of Pastor Charles Taze Russell and published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (now known as Jehovah's Witnesses). Book was actually written by C.J. Woodworth and George Fisher and authorized for publication by J.F. Rutherford, second president of the Watch Tower Society. It was considered as Volume 7 of Studies in the Scriptures by those Bible Students who stayed in fellowship with Rutherford. The Finished Mystery is referenced in modern publications of Jehovah's Witnesses as being a landmark book. Best viewed in PDF format.

You still didn't answer the simple question... so do you believe in the delusional writings of the man/men who wrote/co-wrote this book which many of your doctrines are based on?

Yes or no?

Since: Nov 11

Edwardsville, IL

#16 Nov 18, 2012
Admiral Kolchak wrote:
<quoted text>
Admiral Kolchak was a leader of the White (anti-Communist) movement during the Russian Civil War (1918-1920). While the Communists ruled the Soviet Union Kolchak was considered the enemy. But after the fall of Communism in Russia, Kolchak is considered a hero to many. In fact they made a film about him titled, ADMIRAL. It is in Russian, but available on DVD with English sub-titles. I purchased a copy of the DVD from Amazon.
There is an excellent biography in English by Peter Fleming titled, THE FATE OF ADMIRAL KOLCHAK. You can also purchase this through Amazon.
Thanks for the info:)

Since: Nov 11

Edwardsville, IL

#17 Nov 18, 2012
YKN0T wrote:
<quoted text>
Beckyss,
You started this thread by suggesting Russell wrote the FM….
I asserted that Woodworth and Fisher are the primary authors; which is an accepted fact on the website (JWN) you linked.
I in no way asserted anything personal nor even religious; however you still decided to attempt to create some personal slant and I am not feeling like taking the bait. Why should I? You failed to demonstrate basic understanding of authorship of the FM and were dismissive and self-justifying when it was brought to your attention.
Your re-wording is just as insulting too and I don’t see how it is any different than the ‘with us /against us moral superiority’ tactics occasionally found in the WT publications.
I used the Atheist for the point of showing you that your interpretation isn’t necessarily anymore valid than another’s, that there is always someone who can cast equal assertions against your beliefs too.
I am happy to assure you I am very aware and versed on our history, doctrines, doctrinal development and theocratic practices/politics.
By the Way, Russell did write the 6 first volumes in the set of seven... the other two authors finished the 'summary of the six volumes' which is the seventh. Basically, they summarized the teachings of Russell from the first six into the seventh. So yes, it is the 'writings and teachings' of Russell, just summarized.

Again... do you believe the teachings of any or all?

Since: Nov 11

Edwardsville, IL

#18 Nov 18, 2012
YKN0T wrote:
<quoted text>

Maybe it would be better for you to work through and make peace with whatever it is about the JWs that has caused you to be so emotional and quick to insult.....
this is the kind of thing which causes me to be so emotional and quick to insult a religion which teaches such horrible lies.

Russel claimed all of the following about himself....
He was the messenger of the Laodicean Church
He was the Lord's special servant to give the Household of Faith meat in due season
He was the special messenger to the last Age of the Church
To him the Lord gave the "key"
To him was given the privilege of making clear to the Church in its last years the "Mystery of God"

and yet.....
In His writings, he refers to Jesus as Almighty yet the WTS denies this in today's teachings.

Russel taught that Paul took the place of Judas yet scripture tells us that Mathias did. Act 1;21-26.

These are just two of many.
My whole point to this is that your organization subscribes to the false teachings of this man/men who self-appointed himself as all of the 'messengers and 'holde of keys etc... with God's blessings and inspired truth, yet your organization changes his translations.
So who is wrong... his teachings or the WTS current teachings. Why would anyone believe his teachings to begin with if they are wrong. And how can a group of rational people buy into these teachings and turn around and change them if he is the inspired messenger of God...
Do you see my point?
OH I remember, new light? right? Did it ever occur to you that all this new light which keeps changing is just a facade for a group of men to keep control and dig themselves out of holes they get themselves into when they are proven wrong. If these "inspired" men today were correct to begin with don't you think that God would give them the correct understanding the first time and not need to keep changing all your predictions and doctrines? God doesn't make mistakes, not even the first time.
Have a good day!

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19 Nov 18, 2012
beckyss wrote:
<quoted text>
By the Way, Russell did write the 6 first volumes in the set of seven... the other two authors finished the 'summary of the six volumes' which is the seventh. Basically, they summarized the teachings of Russell from the first six into the seventh. So yes, it is the 'writings and teachings' of Russell, just summarized.
Again... do you believe the teachings of any or all?
Hi Becky. Back in 1998 I was doing research on the Joe Rutherford, the actual founder of the JW religion. During my research I had an opportunity to discuss the matter with a couple of former JWs who at one time worked at Watchtower Publishing Corp. headquarters. They told me that Russell's wife, Maria, actually wrote the first volume of Russell's Studies in the Scriptures, and most likely wrote the remaining five volumes too. They told me if I researched further that I'd find that the 6th Volume, THE NEW CREATION, was first published in 1904 and was actually written before the Russells divorced.

Moreover, Russell didn't write anymore volumes after the couple separated. While Watchtower articles and sermons were credited to him, Russell didn't write anymore books after he lost Maria.

If one wants to make a case, compare the writing style of the first six volumes of Studies in the Scriptures with published works of Maria Russell and one will notice the similarity of the writing style. But there is probably no point in doing this as the JW leadership has recently disowned Russell and has pretty much admitted that Joe Rutherford was their founder.

However, it was Joe Rutherford who promoted the writing of the Finished Mystery and all it's goofy doctrines. And it was the Finished Mystery that Jesus read when he inspected all the world's religions in 1919 and chose the Watchtower to be His representative.

Since: Nov 11

Edwardsville, IL

#21 Nov 19, 2012
Admiral Kolchak wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Becky. Back in 1998 I was doing research on the Joe Rutherford, the actual founder of the JW religion. During my research I had an opportunity to discuss the matter with a couple of former JWs who at one time worked at Watchtower Publishing Corp. headquarters. They told me that Russell's wife, Maria, actually wrote the first volume of Russell's Studies in the Scriptures, and most likely wrote the remaining five volumes too. They told me if I researched further that I'd find that the 6th Volume, THE NEW CREATION, was first published in 1904 and was actually written before the Russells divorced.
Moreover, Russell didn't write anymore volumes after the couple separated. While Watchtower articles and sermons were credited to him, Russell didn't write anymore books after he lost Maria.
If one wants to make a case, compare the writing style of the first six volumes of Studies in the Scriptures with published works of Maria Russell and one will notice the similarity of the writing style. But there is probably no point in doing this as the JW leadership has recently disowned Russell and has pretty much admitted that Joe Rutherford was their founder.
However, it was Joe Rutherford who promoted the writing of the Finished Mystery and all it's goofy doctrines. And it was the Finished Mystery that Jesus read when he inspected all the world's religions in 1919 and chose the Watchtower to be His representative.
Thank you for the information about his wife. I did dig deeper into the history of the book and did discover that at the very least, it was CO-written by both. How much was written by her and him independently is unknown, but it was written by them together and obviously they both believed that he was God's messenger and holds important keys etc and all the other delusional claims, prophecies and interpretations.

And for the WTS to disown Russell as their founder is a moot point to me as well. Their doctrines are based on the fallacies, lies and misinterpretations of the original writings. They may have been changed over time, but they are still incorrect in most grotesque way in that they take the gift of Salvation away from Jesus and put it in the hands of the organization. Jesus' sacrifice was done in vain if all one needs to do is join and believe as the organization tells you to. It's that simple. The organization has taken the role of Christ as the Savior.

Since: Nov 11

Edwardsville, IL

#22 Nov 19, 2012
YKN0T wrote:
Beckyss,
Most of Russell's teachings were jettisoned by Rutherford.
I am curious as to how familiar you are with the site ( www.jehovahs-witness.net or JWN) you linked ?
I also heard a similar (but not exact)story regarding Maria's part in the Studies series as Adm. Kolchak.
Broadly speaking it feels like you are trying to insinuate you are more knowledgeable about my religion than me....which your post reveal you are not.
You need to work on less emotional-demanding-attacking- in-your-face-commentary for a more slowly leading/building commentary like we use in FS (unless of course your point is to offend and just start headbutting JWs to make yourself feel better).
Best to spend a bit more time researching/ discerning JW doctrine, history and culture before attempting to challenge an active JW (especially conscious class JWs)....
Your comments of 'God doesn't make mistakes, not even the first time.' makes me ponder Genesis 6 and 1 Sam 15
I stand corrected. I did dig deeper into the history of the book and did discover that at the very least, it was CO-written by both.
I do not profess to know more about your religion than you do. Of course I don't know about many of the inner workings of your religion. I do however know enough about the doctrines and the history and what they preach today to know that it is not a religion based on honoring Christ. If your doctrines honored Christ, they would not claim that you must come to the organization to find Salvation and come to know the father. Jesus himself stated: John 14:6 I am the way and the truth and the light. No one comes to the father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you would know the father.
And then there is John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him shall never die but have everlasting life...'WHOSEVER" is any one who accepts Christ as his personal savior, repents asks forgiveness and gives his life to Christ and serves God through him. Nowhere in the bible does it state 'whosoever cometh to my organization shall find salvation and the father."
Gen 6 and 1 Sam 15 talk of how God was displeased with man because their hearts had become wicked. They made the mistake, not God. Saul had turned away from God and not followed His instructions. again, God didn't make the mistake, Saul did. Man has free will and sometimes when man exercises that free will, God has to change his plan as in these instances.

You seem to be a very respectful, upstanding level headed person and I do appreciate and respect that in any person. I truly do not attack you personally, nor do I have anything against you. I feel sorry for any person who is a JW because I truly believe that your beliefs will keep you from heaven. I have only met one JW person who I feel is a truly good-hearted person and doesn't look at me as the diseased minded person which the organization teaches you that we are. My parents got divorced because my father rejoined the WTS when I was a teenager after having raised me in a non-JW christian church. He became the most hateful person I had ever met in my life and all in the name of his religion. I know there are many good as well as sin-filled and unrighteous people in all religions, I have just never met as many as I have in the WT organization. I do not have hate for anyone.. just contempt for the lies which the WTS teaches, I want to see all of God's children go to heaven and WE ARE ALL GOD"S CHILDREN...But even God's children will not see heaven if they do not have Christ as their savior, not an organization. I believe it is a cult which controls its members in many ways.

Do you not see that the beliefs which you hold as truth truly deny Christ as the Savior of the world? Can you honestly say that you give Christ full credit for Salvation? or does the WTS share this with him?

If you could see what I see maybe you would understand why I am so passionate about this.

Since: Nov 11

Edwardsville, IL

#23 Nov 19, 2012
YKN0T wrote:
Beckyss,

I am curious as to how familiar you are with the site ( www.jehovahs-witness.net or JWN) you linked ?
I am not familiar with the above site at all. Is it a site which you recommend I check out?

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#24 Nov 19, 2012
YKN0T wrote:
Beckyss,
Most of Russell's teachings were jettisoned by Rutherford.
I am curious as to how familiar you are with the site ( www.jehovahs-witness.net or JWN) you linked ?
I also heard a similar (but not exact)story regarding Maria's part in the Studies series as Adm. Kolchak.
Broadly speaking it feels like you are trying to insinuate you are more knowledgeable about my religion than me....which your post reveal you are not.
You need to work on less emotional-demanding-attacking- in-your-face-commentary for a more slowly leading/building commentary like we use in FS (unless of course your point is to offend and just start headbutting JWs to make yourself feel better).
Best to spend a bit more time researching/ discerning JW doctrine, history and culture before attempting to challenge an active JW (especially conscious class JWs)....
Your comments of 'God doesn't make mistakes, not even the first time.' makes me ponder Genesis 6 and 1 Sam 15
Hi Yknot. As a JW, what have you heard about Maria Russell's authorship of the first 6 volumes of Studies in the Scriptures? Isn't there an admission in an early Watchtower to that effect?

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#27 Nov 21, 2012
YKN0T wrote:
<quoted text>
Back in the day when Phil Donahue was on and JW men were grumbling.....I heard about Maria pushing women's lib and Chuck asserting 1 Tim 2:12 ...
Some older Sisters (read born Bible Students) said privately that Sister Russell was a not only a regular contributor/editor to the WTS, she wrote a hymn book, co-wrote Millennial Dawn 1-4 and was on the board of directors as Sec/Treas.
When I reviewed court transcripts she says the Sec/Treasurer was in name only and that Chuck alone handled everything, the board only met for elections once a year and nothing more in the way of leading/directing the Org.
These same sisters also taught me to discern things in context of the era in which events occurred. They painted a picture of a very intelligent and capable woman (compared her to Louisa May Alcott) and that men then as they were acting now (late 70s/early 80s)were just feeling threatened. One Sister also had a book Maria had written but I don't remember the title (I am sure it is available through Barbara Anderson though)
If I find time over the long weekend I will search my copies of ZWTs for any admissions but until then I did find this little snippet from the WTCD
*** yb75 p. 66 Part 1—United States of America ***
Mrs. Russell was a director of the Watch Tower Society and served as its secretary and treasurer for some years. She also was a regular contributor to the columns of Zion’s Watch Tower and for a time was an associate editor of the journal
*** w55 1/15 p. 46 Part 2—Small Beginnings (1879-1889)***
Furthermore, in that year he was married to Maria Frances Ackley, who had become a colaborer and a contributor of articles to the Watch Tower magazine.
*** w55 2/1 p. 76 Part 3—Expanding the Organization ***
The charter provided for a board of seven directors, three to serve as officers. The original officers were President, C. T. Russell; Vice-President, William I. Mann; Secretary and Treasurer,(Mrs. C. T.) Maria F. Russell.
Hi Yknot. Thanks for helpful post. I also want to say it is nice to have a real JW on the forum. After being subjected to the rants of the "Topix JW" crowd, it is refreshing to read posts by the genuine article. So I hope you stick around and help clear up the misconceptions of the JW church spread by Gareth, Chandler, Topsy, Richardnark, etc. I hope you have a thick skin as they will continue to insult and slander you if you stay.

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