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art

London, UK

#1 Nov 8, 2013
If all this paradise earth is a myth with no real substance other than wishful thinking.
what is the point of all the door to door preaching ?
Its all for nothing. if paradise is just a childish belief Then they may as well be preaching little red riding hood.
if they are able to make up phoney dates for the end coming as they have many times Why is it so difficult to believe that the whole paradise thing is not also a tall tale concocted To sucker people into a senseless hope
Mumple

Milton, PA

#2 Nov 9, 2013
art wrote:
If all this paradise earth is a myth with no real substance other than wishful thinking.
what is the point of all the door to door preaching ?
Its all for nothing. if paradise is just a childish belief Then they may as well be preaching little red riding hood.
if they are able to make up phoney dates for the end coming as they have many times Why is it so difficult to believe that the whole paradise thing is not also a tall tale concocted To sucker people into a senseless hope
The idea of a paradise earth has it's source in the book of Genesis. Men have made a mockery of it. Jehovah's Witnesses are no exception, as you are mocking them now, in a sense. As far as your internal questionings, that is for you and each one to determine.

Since: Aug 09

Bedfordshire, England

#3 Nov 9, 2013
If the paradise was something true and tangible it would be spelt out in the scriptures very clearly. Just think how many times the kingdom of heaven or heavenly hope is mentioned in the scriptures, and yet JWs have to pull out a scripture from Psalms and an unclear reference in the model prayer of Jesus to show there will be a paradise earth, affecting not just 144000, but millions upon millions of people.
Mumple

Milton, PA

#4 Nov 9, 2013
aadriver wrote:
If the paradise was something true and tangible it would be spelt out in the scriptures very clearly. Just think how many times the kingdom of heaven or heavenly hope is mentioned in the scriptures, and yet JWs have to pull out a scripture from Psalms and an unclear reference in the model prayer of Jesus to show there will be a paradise earth, affecting not just 144000, but millions upon millions of people.
It is spelled out in the scriptures very clearly.....
28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them:“Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.
If that doesn't show God's intention for the earth, what does? The verse I posted was at the end of Genesis chapter 1. If you continue reading in chapter 2 it continues the same theme, and even mentions a paradise of pleasure. That is what Eden means. The incidentals can be argued over, God's intentions cannot, as they are clearly stated.
jace

Clinton, MD

#5 Nov 9, 2013
Mumple wrote:
<quoted text>
It is spelled out in the scriptures very clearly.....
28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them:“Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.
If that doesn't show God's intention for the earth, what does? The verse I posted was at the end of Genesis chapter 1. If you continue reading in chapter 2 it continues the same theme, and even mentions a paradise of pleasure. That is what Eden means. The incidentals can be argued over, God's intentions cannot, as they are clearly stated.
not the adam and eve story

where one man caused 20billion to have to suffer - are you trying to say that was the best God could come up with to setttle a bet with the devil

or where you got folks having to marry their Sisters and commit incest

come on now

“King of Kings”

Since: Jul 08

US Bible belt

#6 Nov 9, 2013
art wrote:
If all this paradise earth is a myth with no real substance other than wishful thinking.
what is the point of all the door to door preaching ?
Its all for nothing. if paradise is just a childish belief Then they may as well be preaching little red riding hood.
if they are able to make up phoney dates for the end coming as they have many times Why is it so difficult to believe that the whole paradise thing is not also a tall tale concocted To sucker people into a senseless hope
Paradise earth is what I was built and trained to create. No one knows the time of my coming, I am like a thief in the night who has been hiding in the clouds. When the JW's are willing to listen I am ready to appear and teach them the truth about every question and problem they ever had. Do everything my way and you will see progress and efficiency with minimal complaints in a different light. I used to manage the largest, fastest, most productive and reliable high speed bakeries in the world. Incredibly Joe Cocker figured me out 9 years before I started working for Wonder Bread. Only Jesus could perform what I accomplished.

Mumple

Milton, PA

#7 Nov 9, 2013
jace wrote:
<quoted text>
not the adam and eve story
where one man caused 20billion to have to suffer - are you trying to say that was the best God could come up with to setttle a bet with the devil
or where you got folks having to marry their Sisters and commit incest
come on now
If you don't accept the bible as an accurate record of God's dealings with mankind, I sure can't convince you otherwise. I won't even try. But, that being said, I've accurately posted what's in the bible.

I don't know why you hold it against the rest of the Witnesses, because you were dumb enough to buy into their spiel. It is you that was stupid. They were culpable, no doubt, but you were foolish enough to buy it. They didn't force you. That is why you get so vehement. Your realization that it was your own fault. You can't legitimately blame it on anyone else, so you hate. Not psycho-babble, just an estimate of the posts you've made since I started posting here.
jace

Brooklyn, NY

#8 Nov 9, 2013
Mumple wrote:
<quoted text>If you don't accept the bible as an accurate record of God's dealings with mankind, I sure can't convince you otherwise. I won't even try. But, that being said, I've accurately posted what's in the bible.

I don't know why you hold it against the rest of the Witnesses, because you were dumb enough to buy into their spiel. It is you that was stupid. They were culpable, no doubt, but you were foolish enough to buy it. They didn't force you. That is why you get so vehement. Your realization that it was your own fault. You can't legitimately blame it on anyone else, so you hate. Not psycho-babble, just an estimate of the posts you've made since I started posting here.
One simple question

Have you ever been one of jw as a child

One simple question
Mumple

Milton, PA

#9 Nov 9, 2013
jace wrote:
<quoted text>
One simple question
Have you ever been one of jw as a child
One simple question
did you grow up? If you had a love for God, and not yourself, you could have discovered soon enough that they were not any more legit than any other religion. Probably you should hate your family for exposing you to them.
Thirdwitness

Oklahoma City, OK

#10 Nov 9, 2013
jace wrote:
<quoted text>
not the adam and eve story
where one man caused 20billion to have to suffer - are you trying to say that was the best God could come up with to setttle a bet with the devil
or where you got folks having to marry their Sisters and commit incest
come on now
Jace is so all wise and always has a way better than God's way. Maybe next time Jace can be the Almighty rather than a lil Shitzhu hiding under the porch.

Are not my ways higher than God's.--Essentially Jace.

And whoever said apostates think too much of themselves?

Since: Aug 09

Bedfordshire, England

#11 Nov 10, 2013
Mumple wrote:
<quoted text>
did you grow up? If you had a love for God, and not yourself, you could have discovered soon enough that they were not any more legit than any other religion. Probably you should hate your family for exposing you to them.
If a child is totally exposed and indoctrinated into any religion it is going to be very, very hard to escape it when your whole world is wrapped around those people. It was hard enough for me and I got hooked when I was 18. Yes it was my fault that I got into the religion, but not everyone is able to question and check everything they are told and especially in the days before the internet.

Since: Aug 09

Bedfordshire, England

#12 Nov 10, 2013
Mumple wrote:
<quoted text>
It is spelled out in the scriptures very clearly.....
28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them:“Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.
If that doesn't show God's intention for the earth, what does? The verse I posted was at the end of Genesis chapter 1. If you continue reading in chapter 2 it continues the same theme, and even mentions a paradise of pleasure. That is what Eden means. The incidentals can be argued over, God's intentions cannot, as they are clearly stated.
All that scripture shows is that the first pair had a good start in life. Nowhere do we read that the reward for obeying God will be life in a paradise earth. Genesis 1:30 speaks of the wild beasts of the earth and verse 31 says that God saw that everything he had made was very good. Wild beasts in all the earth does not sound very paradasaic does it?
FutureMan

Brisbane, Australia

#13 Nov 10, 2013
art wrote:
If all this paradise earth is a myth with no real substance other than wishful thinking.
Hi Art, no I do not believe the proposed "Paradise on earth" to be a pipe dream.
I believe with the help of the "Kingdom of God" it can be a reality.
However It is up to the human race ultimately to achieved this, hence the teachings of the "Kingdom of God".

Of course as the way things are we are going to need a little bit of help as our "overlords" the world's elite unfortunately do not want to relinquish control of the planet.

Also unfortunately we may not be the only inhabitants on this planet, from information I have processed of late, that's if it is accurate of course.

Apparently they lay claim to our planet as well, since they were around long before we were.
Of course I personally have never seen any of them, so I cannot prove it one way or another, but then neither have I seen any of Jesus or God's angels either.
But I do believe that they are in constant contact with the various governments of this world, hence the ultra secrecy surrounding UFO sightings as most of them probably come from our own planet, but not from the human race, except for a few reversed engineered crafts.

Finding the real truth of things is like finding a needle in a haystack as there is a lot of dis-info out there in the virtual world.

Anyway apparently we do have friends who are part of the "Kingdom of the heavens" who are just itching to help us.

What I mean is those who are aligned with the Kingdom of God and who are not from here but are from other worlds.

More than one race apparently, part of a collective or confederation of sorts with a council to govern the goings on.

Anyway I cannot personally prove any of this except what I have gleaned from research of the Internet.

The Urantia book, describes how there are indeed many inhabited planets out their in our own backyard of the Milky way Galaxy and apparently we are on the outer fringes of it and so like an outpost if you like, but still part of a Galactic community, except for a few, most of us do not know yet.

The more we head into the center of the Milky way Galaxy, the more densely populated it is with populated worlds of various densities, or levels of material existence.

For instance from what I know we are 3rd density going into a fourth density level existence and of knowledge and technology and understanding of things.

It is also changing our DNA material structure somewhat, but not that it is really observed by us except that more people now have extra sensory abilities, such as Intuitives who can somewhat see things ahead. But not as in fortune telling but still they can see things on the horizon that others cannot at this stage.
They can also sense presences of higher form beings who maybe around in the vicinity at certain times and maybe even in contact with them telepathically in a limited sense. Some also receiving visions and such.

Most of you have by now heard of the Annunaki.
I believe these are the same beings who are referred to in the Bible as the "sons of God" and who are also referred to as the "fallen ones", who also were said to have mated with the women on this planet and produced hybrid offspring.

That is not the whole story however as it does seem that they were directly involved in altering genetically the DNA of the evolving species of humans here on the earth and as a result we are the product of their creation of sorts. There is considerable evidence for this.

And we can also find support for this in the Genesis account as well as the older accounts found in the Sumerian writings.
Genesis 1,
26 ¶ And God said, let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
Genesis 3,
22 ¶ And Jehovah God said, Behold! The man has become as one of Us, to know good and evil.[LITV]
Mumple

Milton, PA

#14 Nov 10, 2013
aadriver wrote:
<quoted text>
If a child is totally exposed and indoctrinated into any religion it is going to be very, very hard to escape it when your whole world is wrapped around those people. It was hard enough for me and I got hooked when I was 18. Yes it was my fault that I got into the religion, but not everyone is able to question and check everything they are told and especially in the days before the internet.
What is your point? Is it that you have a firm grasp of the obvious? It surely isn't the Watchtower's fault that he fell hook line and sinker for their program. I'm sure he didn't go along and apply himself to their ministry because he believed in God. If that was so he would have a much different attitude now. He wanted to get ahead in the organization. A very self centered goal. You don't go to Bethel because you love Jehovah. You go there to please those around you, or to please yourself. Man pleasing is man pleasing. No one put a gun to his head. If it was Jehovah he wished to please, he would have seen through phoniness of the organization's duplicity. The Watchtower Society is no more vile than any other religious organization. They are just more individual and family involvement oriented than most. The others are only interested in appearances and money, the Watchtower also wants personal commitment to the organization. They are an easy target for misplaced hatred. Don't get me wrong, they are a vile and God defaming organization. There are lots of choices, and directions to go in life. If you've made the wrong choice, or it was made for you to some extent, being happy that you're out of it now, instead of living a life of hatred, is the better choice.
Mumple

Milton, PA

#15 Nov 10, 2013
aadriver wrote:
<quoted text>
All that scripture shows is that the first pair had a good start in life. Nowhere do we read that the reward for obeying God will be life in a paradise earth. Genesis 1:30 speaks of the wild beasts of the earth and verse 31 says that God saw that everything he had made was very good. Wild beasts in all the earth does not sound very paradasaic does it?
People see what they want to. God's original intent was stated clearly. What makes you think it has changed?

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#16 Nov 10, 2013
aadriver wrote:
If the paradise was something true and tangible it would be spelt out in the scriptures very clearly.
*** Mat 6:10 Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.

Clear enough for you?
Tao itness

Hollywood, FL

#17 Nov 10, 2013
"Paradise earth" is a key phrase in Watchtower literature, appearing over 1,000 times on the Watchtower CD Library. However, the term never appears in the Bible. Neither is resurrection onto earth specifically discussed.

The word paradise is used only four times in the New World Translation of the Bible and each passage discussing a location refers to heaven.(Song of Solomon 4:13; Luke 23:39-43; 2 Corinthians 12:1-7; Revelation 2:5-7)
Tao itness

Hollywood, FL

#18 Nov 10, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
*** Mat 6:10 Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.
Clear enough for you?
The Bible also says that God wishes that none will be destroyed, but this does not mean that his will will be accomplished in this manner. In this prayer we also asked that we not be lead into temptation, this does not mean that this will not happen. Of course all that God wills will eventually be accomplished! And his will is being done and his childrens lives on this earth every day! But this prayer does not say how this will be done or that he is going to make the earth into a paradise. All references to paradise in the Bible refer to heaven.
Tao itness

Hollywood, FL

#19 Nov 10, 2013
The Watchtower identifies this as heaven;

"Eating in "the Paradise of God." Revelation 2:7 mentions a "tree of life" in "the paradise of God" and that eating from it would be the privilege of the one "that conquers." Since other promises given in this section of Revelation to such conquering ones clearly relate to their gaining a heavenly inheritance (Re 2:26-28; 3:12, 21), it seems evident that "the paradise of God" in this case is a heavenly one." Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2 p.576 Paradise

2 Corinthians 12:2-4 "I know a man in union with Christ who, fourteen years ago-whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know; God knows-was caught away as such to the third heaven. 3 Yes, I know such a man-whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know, God knows- 4 that he was caught away into paradise and heard unutterable words which it is not lawful for a man to speak."

Luke 23:42-43 is the only occasion that the Watchtower claims the word paradise refers to the earth. The context indicates otherwise and it is generally accepted that this scripture refers to heaven.

"And he went on to say: "Jesus, remember me when you get into your kingdom." 43 And he said to him: "Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.""

The Watchtower attempts to explain that Luke refers to an earthly paradise.

"To such ones who had the hope of being received into heaven, Christ promised: "To him that conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God." (Revelation 2:7; John 16:33; 1 John 5:4) This figurative "paradise of God" is in the invisible heavens. However, is it correct to assume that heaven is the only paradise set before all of Jesus' followers? Since the sympathetic evildoer did not conquer the world by pursuing a course of faithfulness to God but was justly being put to death for his wicked deeds, what Paradise did Christ promise him? Indeed, the Bible does promise an earthly Paradise!" Watchtower 1983 Oct 15 p.4 Does the Bible Promise and Earthly Paradise

The quoted article shows that the Revelation reference to paradise is heavenly and provides no evidence that Luke 23 refers to earth. The Watchtower reasoning given is simply that it supports their doctrine. As the paradise of God is in heaven and Jesus specifically states that the man on the cross will be "with him" it follows that this would be in heaven.
Tao itness

Hollywood, FL

#20 Nov 10, 2013
Here is another scripture describing a paradisaic heaven in the Book of Enoch. Even though the Catholics did not make this part of the Bible cannon, it was part of the scrolls that the religious leaders in Jesus day accepted as part of the cannon and was part of the Greek Septuagint version which was carried in all synagogues including the one Jesus read from the book of Isaiah. The most are claimed evidence is that the Book of Enoch is quoted in The Book of Jude which is inspired of God.
2 Enoch 8:1-6 And those men took me thence, and led me up on to the third heaven, and placed me there; and I looked downwards, and saw the produce of these places, such as has never been known for goodness. And I saw all the sweet-flowering trees and beheld their fruits, which were sweet-smelling, and all the foods borne by them bubbling with fragrant exhalation. And in the midst of the trees that of life, in that place whereon the Lord rests, when he goes up into paradise; and this tree is of ineffable goodness and fragrance, and adorned more than every existing thing; and on all sides it is in form gold-looking and vermilion and fire-like and covers all, and it has produce from all fruits. Its root is in the garden at the earth's end. And paradise is between corruptibility and incorruptibility. And two springs come out which send forth honey and milk, and their springs send forth oil and wine, and they separate into four parts, and go round with quiet course, and go down into the PARADISE OF EDEN, between corruptibility and incorruptibility.

Testament of Abraham Chapter 20 "For Death deceived Abraham, and he took his right hand, and straightway his soul adhered to the hand of Death. And immediately the archangel Michael came with a multitude of angels and took up his precious soul in his hands in a divinely woven linen cloth, and they tended the body of the just Abraham with divine ointments and perfumes until the third day after his death, and buried him in the land of promise, the oak of Mamre, but the angels received his precious soul, and ascended into heaven, singing the hymn of "thrice holy" to the Lord the God of all, and they set it there to worship the God and Father. And after great praise and glory had been given to the Lord, and Abraham bowed down to worship, there came the undefiled voice of the God and Father saying thus, Take therefore my friend Abraham into Paradise, where are the tabernacles of my righteous ones, and the abodes of my saints Isaac and Jacob in his bosom, where there is no trouble, nor grief, nor sighing, but peace and rejoicing and life unending."

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