man711

United States

#87 Nov 30, 2012
acrobat wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
It's not easy, waking up in the morning and being greeted along with the morning coffee and bagel with the about verbal diarrhea from FH Chandler.
But then all one must do is remind oneself that these utterings come forth from the mouth of the self avowed apostate cowering behind the psuedonym/mommy's name "FH Chandler" and it all makes sense!:)
Kinda like the sarcastic alleged know it all that cowers behind a name of acrobat, huh?
Spike

Little Falls, NJ

#88 Nov 30, 2012
man711 wrote:
<quoted text>Kinda like the sarcastic alleged know it all that cowers behind a name of acrobat, huh?
well your father abused, molested and beat you up, so when the old man had alzheimers and dementia you di the same back to the old fart

“STOP THAT. It's silly.”

Since: Dec 06

Pittsburgh, PA

#89 Nov 30, 2012
Milquetoastboy wrote:
Well you see it's like this.
It might have been for you. I doubt it, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Milquetoastboy: When one leaves the JW's after being brought up in it for most of one's life, one the goes through a sort of delayed adolescence. You should know this; you're still in it.

Reply: Actually, I wouldn't have any idea of what you speak. I had a pretty enjoyable adolescence, with a pretty diverse group of friends and family members with whom I shared many wonderful times.

Milquetoastboy: So you do all the things you couldn't do in your youth. Women, drink, partying etc.

Reply: It depends what you mean by the terms, "your youth," and "adolescence." If you're using those terms in the general sense, i.e., between puberty and the age of legal adulthood [roughly 12-18], there aren't too many kids "enjoying" drinking OR women and "partying" in the sense to which you refer - i.e., in the manner of people who are generally low class and lacking in morals and responsibility, or people who are so butthurt because they think the grass is greener in their friends' yards and are too short-sighted to realize that their parents are simply trying to keep them from having problems later in life.

Milquetoastboy: The last thing you think about is your education...

Reply: No, the last thing YOU thought about was your education, because you were too busy sticking it to daddy - or, at least, imagining that you were - because you didn't like that daddy was "tough" on you.

Milquetoastboy: Once you've done all the things that most people have done 10 - 15 years earlier...

Reply: I.e., "drinking, women and partying," that your friends were all doing at 15? Sheesh. I know the motherland has a reputation for drinking, but it's seriously "normal" for fifteen-year-olds to be boozing it up? And having their first sexual experiences? And I should say that even someone as dishonest as you understand there's a difference between "partying" as teenagers do, and "partying" as adults do. Shenanigans, I say.

Milquetoastboy:...you then find a mate. You marry, have children. You then work your socks off to keep the wolf from he door. You're now getting into your 40's.

Reply: Or, in other words, you make a horribly irresponsible choice. Gotcha.

Milquetoastboy: So tell me, Oh Great & Wise One, how do I now go to uni and keep a family too??

Reply: Well it's not impossible. Frankly, it's not even "hard." A little tough, but you guys are supposed to be all, "stiff upper lip," right?

That said, when I was an adolescent, my priorities didn't include "drinking, women and partying" [in the manner of an adult. For instance, in HS, as I personally knew a girl who'd gotten pregnant and missed a year of school, I knew I didn't want to end up like that. So where others might have been fooling around, and being unsafe about it, I made a CHOICE not to. I didn't want to be an 18-year-old father. And yes, I was mature enough at the time to understand how much of a problem that would have been. And when I was finished with HS, I immediately went to college. And when I turned 21, and my friends were starting to drink and party as adults, I was a bit more boring, and I focused more on finishing my degree. Which isn't to say I didn't occasionally go out and enjoy a drink, but I clearly didn't enjoy it in the manner that you suggest is normal for "adolescents" [or, people who aren't even legally able to drink]. And sure, that might have made me a little less exciting, but I didn't intend to waste the opportunity my parents gave me by sending me to school.

In short, I had my shit together, whereas you were obviously too obsessed with giving the JWGB the middle finger. Or the middle and pointer finger, as you clowns do it.

“STOP THAT. It's silly.”

Since: Dec 06

Pittsburgh, PA

#90 Nov 30, 2012
Milquetoastboy wrote:
I tell you what we did. The family couldn't survive without my income...
Yeah, yeah, yeah... I understand, old bean, I really do; it's a whole heck of a lot easier to blame someone far away you've never met for your own failures than it is to stand up and take responsibility for your own actions and, more importantly, control over your own life.

I suppose it never occurred to you that perhaps you shouldn't have started having children you weren't capable of caring for without struggling?

On that point, are you one of these people who is real extreme in living vicariously through your children? Do you buy into the silly transcendentalist belief that you're going to be reborn through them, or some such nonsense? Just wondering...

Milquetoastboy: She then progressed and became a uni lecturer herself teaching [Sociology] to adults and English to teens.

[Emphasis added]

Reply: Ah, you mean left-wing, nanny-state, "progressive" bullshit? Now it's making sense.

Milquetoastboy: If it galls you that I criticise JW's for restricting education...

Reply: Based on your story, your failure to obtain higher education had nothing to do with any nonexistent restriction created by your Brooklyn Boogeymen.

“Family comes First”

Since: May 11

Weston super Mare

#91 Nov 30, 2012
>>>>>Would those be the ones to Laslow's hierarchy of needs<<<<<

Reply. No. And it's Maslow. Laslow was a character in Casablanca. I’m referring to the link to my life story. You obviously didn’t bother to read it.

>>>As it is, that wasn't the issue I raised. YOU proposed, among other things, that you were prevented from obtaining a university education specifically because of your JW upbringing. Assuming that such is true - and, given my own personal experience, I know that simply being a JW doesn't prevent anyone from obtaining a university education, I simply asked what it was - other than your own personal incompetence - that kept you from doing it AFTER you left the sect<<<.

Reply. My JW upbringing was all about NOT getting an education. UK education was (and still is in some sectors) split at age 11. Homeworked kids went to Grammar School. The others went to State Secondary. Google 11 plus (UK 11+) if you need to no more. I was pulled from school at age 15.(you could leave school and go to work at 15 back then) I went to work in a factory that made automatic addressing machines.

>>>Apparently you're too blind to see how silly it is for a 66 year old man to profess to the world that the single factor preventing him from obtaining higher education was his association with a sect FORTY YEARS ago.<<<

Reply. Over-statement. Nowhere did I use the term “single factor”. My JW upbringing was a major factor in my lack of a formal education. The passage of time since then is irrelevant.

>>>>>>*****I have a beautiful and kind wife, 3 wonderful sons who have pursued excellent careers following a university education that we did our darndest to pay for, 4 grand-children who are a constant delight, our own home (that my yomping up and down ladders for the last 20 years has provided) and friends by the bucket load. I have a great pub 200 yards from where I live and a enjoy great social life - on most evenings! I've also got a very fast Saab car that I drive with gusto..****

(your)Reply: That's all great.

It has nothing to do with the question asked, but it's all great nonetheless.<<<< <

Reply: Enlightenment, Grasshopper!

>>>>>***** I, however got off my arse and resumed the physical work that you find so amusing, regained my strength, and made myself useful.*****

(your)Reply: It's neither the work, or the people that do it that I find amusing.

I find it amusing that you purport that you were somehow forced into a life of doing manual labor because you grew up a JW.

Maybe you could speak to that, hm?<<<<<

Reply: Over-statement again. A JW upbringing was a contributing factor, even a major one. If you check again you’ll find that I say I don’t mind doing it, which sort of negates you inferring that I claimed to be “forced” into a life of manual labour.

“Family comes First”

Since: May 11

Weston super Mare

#92 Nov 30, 2012
>>>>>Yeah, yeah, yeah... I understand, old bean, I really do; it's a whole heck of a lot easier to blame someone far away you've never met for your own failures than it is to stand up and take responsibility for your own actions and, more importantly, control over your own life.<<<<

Reply: Of course. Life is all about what you make it. Don’t make the mistake of assuming that because I make reference to JW negatives that I’m holding them totally responsible. They are only partially responsible. I’m pointing out major factors that I needed to overcome. Ultimately we all have choices. Unfortunately, a JW upbringing can blind a person to those choices. I shall continue to make people – where possible JW parents – aware of that fact.

>>>>>I suppose it never occurred to you that perhaps you shouldn't have started having children you weren't capable of caring for without struggling?<<<< <

Reply: Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

>>>>>On that point, are you one of these people who is real extreme in living vicariously through your children? Do you buy into the silly transcendentalist belief that you're going to be reborn through them, or some such nonsense? Just wondering..<<<<

Nah. Kids are like farts. Your own are quite nice but other people’s can sometimes stink.

>>>>>***** She then progressed and became a uni lecturer herself teaching [Sociology] to adults and English to teens.*****

[Emphasis added]

Reply: Ah, you mean left-wing, nanny-state, "progressive" bullshit? Now it's making sense.<<<<<<

Nah..Sociology, not socialist. Google again.

>>>>>>*****I f it galls you that I criticise JW's for restricting education...*****

Reply: Based on your story, your failure to obtain higher education had nothing to do with any nonexistent restriction created by your Brooklyn Boogeymen.<<<<< <<

It was a major factor, nothing more.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#93 Nov 30, 2012
Yes, of course they make the BEST parents. They follow the Bible and train their kids. Just go to a Kingdom Hall and listen to the kids make comments on their own. The world has gotten so rotten that they do NOT train their kids. They send them off to school or nursery ASAP so they won't have to train them. LET SOMEBODY ELSE TRAIN THEM. Ever since Dr. Spock wrote that idiotic book about how to train kids, the training has gone downhill. Then people got that stupid idea that you will hold your kids back if you don't give all kids awards they don't earn. Now all kids get the same awards and they have the idea they don't have to do their best, it's that stupid idea, "I'm OK, you're OK.

YES, Jehovah do TRAIN THEIR KIDS and do it well.
hMMMM

Aurora, IL

#94 Nov 30, 2012
Keikihipa wrote:
Yes, of course they make the BEST parents. They follow the Bible and train their kids. Just go to a Kingdom Hall and listen to the kids make comments on their own. The world has gotten so rotten that they do NOT train their kids. They send them off to school or nursery ASAP so they won't have to train them. LET SOMEBODY ELSE TRAIN THEM. Ever since Dr. Spock wrote that idiotic book about how to train kids, the training has gone downhill. Then people got that stupid idea that you will hold your kids back if you don't give all kids awards they don't earn. Now all kids get the same awards and they have the idea they don't have to do their best, it's that stupid idea, "I'm OK, you're OK.
YES, Jehovah do TRAIN THEIR KIDS and do it well.
We can take it your IQ is nowhere near the double digits.
These are the kind of nitwits that Jehovah's Witness parents let have unsupervised access to their children.
At least you support the fact that Jehovah's Witness parents abuse their children and surround them with guilt and negativity and no love.
How dare Dr Spock teach parents that loving discipline is the way to ensure a healthy adult!!
Better to have the WBTS instruct you how abuse your children and have monsters like Nancy Garrido and Jonathan Holt result, and commit heinous crimes against women and children!
A "witness to the world" to what crappy and dangerous parents Jehovah's Witnesses are.

“BIBLE TRUTHS *NEVER* CHANGE”

Since: Aug 09

LET GO AND LET GOD

#95 Nov 30, 2012
emmaswish wrote:
You have both good and bad parents, but JW parents seem to have an agenda of rules, and protocol. And of course of obligation. Sometimes caring and empathy seem to get lost.

As I read in the "Spanking room", the little boys mother was a much better parent before she became a Witness. She seemed to lose all compassion and understanding as she progressed as a Witness.

Parents also get frustrated when their children don't follow the Witness creed and they tend to lash out. It is like being caught between the rock and the hard place--it does take a strong person to be a good parent and a very supportive parent is needed for the witness child.
Speaking from my own experience as a WTS-following parent...it was terribly limiting in raising my children as individuals. It was ALL ABOUT WTS rules and requirements being met and everyone being expected to toe the WTS mark. "Good" WTS-following parents were not allowed to let their youngsters develop their own spiritual paths but the GB's LATEST bible ideas and interpretations were the ONLY things to be considered.

I realized later that the WTS teachings all but eliminated ANY real conversation between JW parent and child....they couldn't ask to have their opinions heard or given ANY thought to, as in a normal and loving household where ones COULD sit down and WERE ABLE to discuss things in a calm manner.

There was NEVER any room for compromise when it came to so many typical disagreements that teens and parents often get into....but it was ALWAYS "what the WTS sez" that had to take precedence or the parent's heads would roll if (gasp!) any other WTS-follower found out. No doubt about it...I KNOW that I would have been a MUCH better parent had I been allowed to treat each of the six children I raised....as individuals with individual needs, desires and questions of their own.

My hands were tied and I resorted to having to deal with them in a rather regimented upbringing; bein obedient to all WTS orders and edicts as the be all and end all in every decision being made. We have only one chance at raising our children...and I deeply regret the way I raised mine for 30 years. I was dead wrong allowing the WTS leaders not only to be given the platform to issue their loveless and godless policies and requirements, but to having these demands take precedence over the common sense that should have been the policy in my home.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#96 Nov 30, 2012
Nedoba wrote:
<quoted text>
Speaking from my own experience as a WTS-following parent...it was terribly limiting in raising my children as individuals. It was ALL ABOUT WTS rules and requirements being met and everyone being expected to toe the WTS mark. "Good" WTS-following parents were not allowed to let their youngsters develop their own spiritual paths but the GB's LATEST bible ideas and interpretations were the ONLY things to be considered.
I realized later that the WTS teachings all but eliminated ANY real conversation between JW parent and child....they couldn't ask to have their opinions heard or given ANY thought to, as in a normal and loving household where ones COULD sit down and WERE ABLE to discuss things in a calm manner.
There was NEVER any room for compromise when it came to so many typical disagreements that teens and parents often get into....but it was ALWAYS "what the WTS sez" that had to take precedence or the parent's heads would roll if (gasp!) any other WTS-follower found out. No doubt about it...I KNOW that I would have been a MUCH better parent had I been allowed to treat each of the six children I raised....as individuals with individual needs, desires and questions of their own.
My hands were tied and I resorted to having to deal with them in a rather regimented upbringing; bein obedient to all WTS orders and edicts as the be all and end all in every decision being made. We have only one chance at raising our children...and I deeply regret the way I raised mine for 30 years. I was dead wrong allowing the WTS leaders not only to be given the platform to issue their loveless and godless policies and requirements, but to having these demands take precedence over the common sense that should have been the policy in my home.
Amen
Hoodwinked

Hemet, CA

#97 Nov 30, 2012
Keikihipa wrote:
Yes, of course they make the BEST parents. They follow the Bible and train their kids. Just go to a Kingdom Hall and listen to the kids make comments on their own. The world has gotten so rotten that they do NOT train their kids. They send them off to school or nursery ASAP so they won't have to train them. LET SOMEBODY ELSE TRAIN THEM. Ever since Dr. Spock wrote that idiotic book about how to train kids, the training has gone downhill. Then people got that stupid idea that you will hold your kids back if you don't give all kids awards they don't earn. Now all kids get the same awards and they have the idea they don't have to do their best, it's that stupid idea, "I'm OK, you're OK.
YES, Jehovah do TRAIN THEIR KIDS and do it well.
Yeah I thought the same thing as a JW.
Truth is I taught them to trust the wrong people and as a result my daughter was molested by an ex elder.

Kids do what their parents want.It's not until they reach young adulthood that they learn to speak their mind.

“John 4:23,24”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#98 Nov 30, 2012
Hoodwinked wrote:
<quoted text> Yeah I thought the same thing as a JW.
Truth is I taught them to trust the wrong people and as a result my daughter was molested by an ex elder.
Kids do what their parents want.It's not until they reach young adulthood that they learn to speak their mind.
You shouldn't have taught your children to trust people who have been removed from their office of oversight for cause. You should have protected them from such people.

That doesn't excuse the sin of the molester, but the fault did not lie with Jehovah's Witnesses.

They had removed the man from his responsibilities and made it public knowledge that he was no longer trusted to lead the congregation. If he was not fit to care for the congregation, why did you allow him to be alone with your daughter?

You made an understandable mistake in deciding to trust someone the elders did not trust, but it was not the fault of Jehovah's Witnesses.

“Surprised By Love”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#99 Nov 30, 2012
Keikihipa wrote:
Yes, of course they make the BEST parents. They follow the Bible and train their kids. Just go to a Kingdom Hall and listen to the kids make comments on their own. The world has gotten so rotten that they do NOT train their kids. They send them off to school or nursery ASAP so they won't have to train them. LET SOMEBODY ELSE TRAIN THEM. Ever since Dr. Spock wrote that idiotic book about how to train kids, the training has gone downhill. Then people got that stupid idea that you will hold your kids back if you don't give all kids awards they don't earn. Now all kids get the same awards and they have the idea they don't have to do their best, it's that stupid idea, "I'm OK, you're OK.
YES, Jehovah do TRAIN THEIR KIDS and do it well.
Then why do Jehovah's Witnesses have the worst retention rate of any religion? Only 65% of Jehovah's Witness children stay in the religion.
hMMMMM

Aurora, IL

#100 Nov 30, 2012
Hoodwinked wrote:
<quoted text> Yeah I thought the same thing as a JW.
Truth is I taught them to trust the wrong people and as a result my daughter was molested by an ex elder.
Kids do what their parents want.It's not until they reach young adulthood that they learn to speak their mind.
You are such a good mom, and an exception to the rule.
Most Jehovah's Witness parents would NOT believe their child who was molested, and instead stand by their "brother".
You are not letting the crime committed on your daughter go by in silence, you are speaking out and informing others what happens when we train our children to be "submissive sheep" as instructed by the WBTS.
Bravo on you mom!!
hMMMMM

Aurora, IL

#101 Nov 30, 2012
much happier now wrote:
<quoted text>
Then why do Jehovah's Witnesses have the worst retention rate of any religion? Only 65% of Jehovah's Witness children stay in the religion.
And that is high.
Many just see themselves as still Jehovah's Witnesses but are not active, not married to another Jehovah'sWitness and not raising their children Jehovah's Witness.
It is only due to the barbaric practice of enforcing shunning that even that meager figure is so high
hMMMMM

Aurora, IL

#102 Nov 30, 2012
eagleeye2 wrote:
<quoted text>
You shouldn't have taught your children to trust people who have been removed from their office of oversight for cause. You should have protected them from such people.
That doesn't excuse the sin of the molester, but the fault did not lie with Jehovah's Witnesses.
They had removed the man from his responsibilities and made it public knowledge that he was no longer trusted to lead the congregation. If he was not fit to care for the congregation, why did you allow him to be alone with your daughter?
You made an understandable mistake in deciding to trust someone the elders did not trust, but it was not the fault of Jehovah's Witnesses.
You are a heartless excuse for a human being.
You are a jehovah's Witness.
No wonder your son killed himself.
The fact you ever bred is beyond a tragedy.

“BIBLE TRUTHS *NEVER* CHANGE”

Since: Aug 09

LET GO AND LET GOD

#103 Nov 30, 2012
hMMMMM wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a heartless excuse for a human being.
You are a jehovah's Witness.
No wonder your son killed himself.
The fact you ever bred is beyond a tragedy.
My heart goes out once again to HW and what her entire family has endured at the hands of the detestable and vile WTS leaders. I am continually astonished by the coldest heart I have ever seen in the posts that EE is responsible for writing. How does ONE mom even THINK ABOUT speaking that way to ANOTHER mom?

It is unnatural, reprehensible and totally lacking in ANY human compassion at all.

((((HW))))...for all that you and yours have gone through...I love you.

EE....not so much.
Hoodwinked

Hemet, CA

#104 Nov 30, 2012
eagleeye2 wrote:
<quoted text>
You shouldn't have taught your children to trust people who have been removed from their office of oversight for cause. You should have protected them from such people.
That doesn't excuse the sin of the molester, but the fault did not lie with Jehovah's Witnesses.
They had removed the man from his responsibilities and made it public knowledge that he was no longer trusted to lead the congregation. If he was not fit to care for the congregation, why did you allow him to be alone with your daughter?
You made an understandable mistake in deciding to trust someone the elders did not trust, but it was not the fault of Jehovah's Witnesses.
You lie! He was a brother in good standing...leading the congregation clean ups as well as having a full share in the meetings and service at the time...nice try, liar!
You know darn well, we all thought he stepped down from his position because his teen son got in trouble. You really are a deceptive witch!!
As for the rest of your speech, time will tell. If in fact they knew of the first victim and never warned us parents so we could protect our children they are at fault for the multiple victims he was convicted for...don't you agree?
Hoodwinked

Hemet, CA

#105 Nov 30, 2012
Nedoba wrote:
<quoted text>
My heart goes out once again to HW and what her entire family has endured at the hands of the detestable and vile WTS leaders. I am continually astonished by the coldest heart I have ever seen in the posts that EE is responsible for writing. How does ONE mom even THINK ABOUT speaking that way to ANOTHER mom?
It is unnatural, reprehensible and totally lacking in ANY human compassion at all.
((((HW))))...for all that you and yours have gone through...I love you.
EE....not so much.
Thank you both.
It's been a few years since I came here with my family's experience. Thankfully, God has been really good to us and has helped lessen the anger and pain we experienced. I think as a mother who prided myself on being a darn good mom..it really hit me the hardest. But I'll tell you, I'm doing much better then I was when I first got here and that's because I really needed to talk about it and this forum has given me that platform :) it does have a good side...which is why I never completely leave.
Cold Wisconsin

Wausau, WI

#106 Nov 30, 2012
man711 wrote:
<quoted text>You said previously there was a small bit posted was that a lie?
There was the NAME of the HUSBAND and his sentenceing for his child abuse crime along WITH HIS INFORMATION ABOUT HIS PROBATION he was on OVER 10 LONG YEARS AGO!

Why would I want to given out ANY personal information to you, a TOTAL STRANGER 1st of all, 2nd of all ITS NONE of your BUISNESS whom this person is , since he PAID THE CRIME WITH THE TIME and since MOVED ON with his life..

I also happen to be VERY VERY CLOSE to TWO of the children in this LONG AGO CASE,since then they have moved on with thier lives and have had children of their own , and YEAH, like I am going to just hand over PRIVATE personal information to you, a loser who is insisting to the point of even "HARASSING"me for peoples PERSONAL INFORMATION..

Like I said before, if you dont beleive me, OH WELL....
Me and God along with this family know the TRUTH...OH yes, the ELDERS AND THEIR WIVES ALSO knew what had been going on and DID ABSOLUTLY NOTHING!!!!!
Go figure...

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