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#1036
Feb 13, 2013
 
Was wondering; if the soul/spirit really does live on after death, then why does God view spiritism as a wicked act? Like when my grandmother passed, if there was a way to communicate with her and to make sure she was ok, or to help me past the grief, then why would God disallow that?

Is it that there's no way to connect to a "good" spirit/does it open a doorway to demons?

“Gods love ... poured out”

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Sacramento

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#1037
Feb 13, 2013
 

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Michael2010 wrote:
Was wondering; if the soul/spirit really does live on after death, then why does God view spiritism as a wicked act? Like when my grandmother passed, if there was a way to communicate with her and to make sure she was ok, or to help me past the grief, then why would God disallow that?
Is it that there's no way to connect to a "good" spirit/does it open a doorway to demons?
Just my 2.

If God forbids humans to contact spirits He surly must have the same restrictions on the spirits. So, both sides would be breaking God's rule.

I would think/guess that God does not want us to know what it is like after death, for some good reasons. People complain that if there was life after death, Lazarus would have told everyone all about it, I would think, probably, Jesus told Lazarus, as He told others, "tell no one", again for the reasons only God knows.
dee lightful

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#1038
Feb 13, 2013
 
humble wrote:
THE spirit creature called Michael is not mentioned often in the Bible. However, when he is referred to, he is in action. In the book of Daniel, Michael is battling wicked angels; in the letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in Revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons. By defending Jehovah’s rulership and fighting God’s enemies, Michael lives up to the meaning of his name—“Who Is Like God?” But who is Michael?
At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon.(Genesis 49:1, 2; Matthew 10:2) Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth. Let us consider Scriptural reasons for drawing that conclusion.
Archangel. God’s Word refers to Michael “the archangel.”(Jude 9) This term means “chief angel.” Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term “archangel” occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states:“The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice.” Thus the voice of Jesus is described as p. 219being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.
Army Leader. The Bible states that “Michael and his angels battled with the dragon ... and its angels.”(Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels.(Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.”(2 Thessalonians 1:7) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.”(Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.*
When someone is mentioned in the bible as having another name it so stated with no doubt as to who it is. There is no scripture saying that jesus is Michael ...so there is no scriptural reason for assuming any such thing.
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Jesus is the Word. Jesus is the physical manifestation of God the Father,therefore not an angel but God in a physical form.
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NOTE how you ignore the fact that scriptures says Michael is one of several princes and although Michael is the only angel called an archangel in the bible, saying there are more like him implies there are more archangels.It is stated that Michael is the archangel that watches over Israel there is no reason not to believe there are other archangels that watch over others.Even the Jews believe there are more than one archangel.
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NOTE if Michael is one of SEVERAL PRINCES then he is not unique and cannot be the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God for to be an ONLY ONE is unique.
.

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#1039
Feb 13, 2013
 
PVA wrote:
<quoted text>
Dave47,
the bible states Elijah went up in a chariot of fire to heaven
and Enoch was taken by GOD..
dave47 tells me this is not true that they went to heaven
so i find myself in a strait between the two, believe dave47 or
believe the scripture...??? sound familiar???
i will try to be brief..
Moses has recorded the following ....
gen 5 11 enosh lived 905 years then HE DIED
gen 5 14 kenan lived 910 years then HE DIED
gen 5 17 mahalalel lived 895 years then HE DIED
gen 5 20 jared lived 962 years then HE DIED
gen 5 :23 ENOCH lived 365 years then HE??????????
gen 5 :24 GOD took him....
gen 5 27 methuselah lived 969 years the HE DIED
gen 5 31 lamech lived 777 years then HE DIED..
THERE IS NO RECORD OF THE DEATH FOR ENOCH, GOD TOOK HIM
Moses has given us reason to believe ENOCH did not die..
Hebrews 11:5 by faith Enoch was taken from this life so that he did not experience DEATH he could not be found because GOD had taken him away for before he was taken he was commended as one who pleased GOD......
at post 954 to HR your reasoning to your belief that Elijah did not go to heaven was and i quote you "Elijah resurfaced as this letter to jehoram shows at chron 21 12 ..
first i ask did Elijah resurface or a letter?
you said this letter spoke of past and future events...
was he not a prophet???
who can prove Elijah even wrote it ??? when was it written??
this kind of reasoning is defeated...agree?
you used John 13:3 to prove your case. do you have understanding
of what JESUS said in this passage???
in closing this post i will remind of this...never have i nor
scripture conveyed or implied that these men
Enoch and Elijah are not subject to judgment ....
you have presumed this, but how can you prove this,, we have
no idea when or how but one thing is CLEAR the scriptures make
NO assumptions that these men have already been judged...
It may help some to research the Jewish "Passover Seder".

You may have to google it with Elijah attached.

Matthew 17:10-13
King James Version (KJV)

10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

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#1040
Feb 13, 2013
 
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
ihv.. i bet most jws dont realize that the wt even went so far as to bascially call the apostles liars.. YEP and here is the proof.
1/15/08 Watchtower pp.27
"The disciples evidently got the message that he referred to his fleshly body as the Temple of God, and supposed that our Lords prediction was fulfilled three days after his crucifixion . But we cannot so view the matter."
OHH WAIT I KNOW thats old stuff.. we no longer abide by that.. but then they were correect<<<, typical of wt response.. and here it comes folks
i am a liar,, i took it out of context.. i got this off an apostate site... and maybe even more
will
Yup, it is true, whatever changes are made, we respect that, because we know that humans learn progressively. Only God is perfect.:-)

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#1041
Feb 13, 2013
 
Prime wrote:
<quoted text>Why is it you keep asking these ridiculously asinine questions?
Do you not know that God can heal! Everyone of your arguments limits the ability of God, it's not the other way around like you want to believe!
How is it a ridiculous question? Before you even go into the same body business, you have to answer if the soul fits into the same body, lol.(If it will come out of purgatory, heaven or hell.) Furthermore, that God 'heals' a body that has completely corrupted, shows that it is not the same body! God's power is beyond understanding to bring the person, body and soul <smile> back to life! But in order to really believe that same-body theory, you'd have to believe that God brings back the same body, lol, and fits the soul into that body, isn't that right, according to you?

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#1042
Feb 13, 2013
 
Michael2010 wrote:
Was wondering; if the soul/spirit really does live on after death, then why does God view spiritism as a wicked act? Like when my grandmother passed, if there was a way to communicate with her and to make sure she was ok, or to help me past the grief, then why would God disallow that?
Is it that there's no way to connect to a "good" spirit/does it open a doorway to demons?
I hope you will get various answers, Michael2010. Intelligent question. But the Jews were to pray, or communicate with Jehovah only. He did outline an approach to Him, through various means, including the priests, and ways of worship as authorized in the Mosaic Law and Levitical priesthood. Many religions teach that it is OK to pray to the dead, or fear them, when, in fact, the dead do not communicate with the living, and takes away from the worship of Jehovah God, who is a jealous God, and has a certain way of worship that is acceptable to Him (that includes morals and ways of dealing with others).

Since: Mar 12

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#1043
Feb 13, 2013
 
Luke 16:26-31
King James Version (KJV)

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

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#1044
Feb 13, 2013
 
humble wrote:
THE spirit creature called Michael is not mentioned often in the Bible. However, when he is referred to, he is in action. In the book of Daniel, Michael is battling wicked angels; in the letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in Revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons. By defending Jehovah’s rulership and fighting God’s enemies, Michael lives up to the meaning of his name—“Who Is Like God?” But who is Michael?
At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon.(Genesis 49:1, 2; Matthew 10:2) Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth. Let us consider Scriptural reasons for drawing that conclusion.
Archangel. God’s Word refers to Michael “the archangel.”(Jude 9) This term means “chief angel.” Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term “archangel” occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states:“The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice.” Thus the voice of Jesus is described as p. 219being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.
Army Leader. The Bible states that “Michael and his angels battled with the dragon ... and its angels.”(Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels.(Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.”(2 Thessalonians 1:7) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.”(Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.*
As I read more about this, I see that Jesus was elevated in station when he was resurrected.

Philippians 2
" being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,

10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father."

So we can see here that Jesus was exalted to the highest place after his resurrection. Before Jesus came to the earth as a human, Michael the archangel argued with the Devil, also he fought in behalf of God's people. But later, after Jesus' resurrection, Michael was triumphant, and the great prince stood up for God's people. Revelation 12:7 Again, linking it together, we can see that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ.

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#1045
Feb 13, 2013
 
Kevin 321 wrote:
Luke 16:26-31
King James Version (KJV)
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
So this convinces you that it's ok to talk with the dead? Or to pray to those you think are alive in the spirit realm or whatever, but are not God?

“email at ihveit@aol.com ”

Since: Dec 07

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#1046
Feb 13, 2013
 
PVA wrote:
<quoted text>
Dave47,
the bible states Elijah went up in a chariot of fire to heaven
and Enoch was taken by GOD..
dave47 tells me this is not true that they went to heaven
so i find myself in a strait between the two, believe dave47 or
believe the scripture...??? sound familiar???
i will try to be brief..
Moses has recorded the following ....
gen 5 11 enosh lived 905 years then HE DIED
gen 5 14 kenan lived 910 years then HE DIED
gen 5 17 mahalalel lived 895 years then HE DIED
gen 5 20 jared lived 962 years then HE DIED
gen 5 :23 ENOCH lived 365 years then HE??????????
gen 5 :24 GOD took him....
gen 5 27 methuselah lived 969 years the HE DIED
gen 5 31 lamech lived 777 years then HE DIED..
THERE IS NO RECORD OF THE DEATH FOR ENOCH, GOD TOOK HIM
ihv there is a lots of misconception about enoch.. actully here is what that verse really means:
It seems reasonable that Enoch never saw anyone die; because Paul testifies that Enoch did not see death."
OHHH WAIT i DIDNT SAY THAT LOL.. i meant "Thus God translated Enoch, or put him in a trance ....that is, God let Enoch's life expire peaceably. He felt no pangs of death; he did not see or realize he was dying..... so Enoch "died in faith", and his body his enemies were never able to find....God disposed of his body."
I FEEL this could also be an explanation:
God could have removed him off the scene and terminated his present life so that Enoch was not aware of dying."
all this sounds reasonable?
will
Moses has given us reason to believe ENOCH did not die..
Hebrews 11:5 by faith Enoch was taken from this life so that he did not experience DEATH he could not be found because GOD had taken him away for before he was taken he was commended as one who pleased GOD......
at post 954 to HR your reasoning to your belief that Elijah did not go to heaven was and i quote you "Elijah resurfaced as this letter to jehoram shows at chron 21 12 ..
first i ask did Elijah resurface or a letter?
you said this letter spoke of past and future events...
was he not a prophet???
who can prove Elijah even wrote it ??? when was it written??
this kind of reasoning is defeated...agree?
you used John 13:3 to prove your case. do you have understanding
of what JESUS said in this passage???
in closing this post i will remind of this...never have i nor
scripture conveyed or implied that these men
Enoch and Elijah are not subject to judgment ....
you have presumed this, but how can you prove this,, we have
no idea when or how but one thing is CLEAR the scriptures make
NO assumptions that these men have already been judged...
IHV ahahahahahahahahh ALL THE ABOVE i said aobut enoch is not my beliefs.. IT ALL CAME FROM WT EXCUSE MAGS
WILL
ROFL LOLOLOLO

“email at ihveit@aol.com ”

Since: Dec 07

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#1047
Feb 13, 2013
 
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
So this convinces you that it's ok to talk with the dead? Or to pray to those you think are alive in the spirit realm or whatever, but are not God?
ihv and i am sure you have a much better explanation for luke 16? why dont you give us the wt version since we all need a really good laugh
will
dee lightful

Easley, SC

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#1048
Feb 13, 2013
 
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>How is it a ridiculous question? Before you even go into the same body business, you have to answer if the soul fits into the same body, lol.(If it will come out of purgatory, heaven or hell.) Furthermore, that God 'heals' a body that has completely corrupted, shows that it is not the same body! God's power is beyond understanding to bring the person, body and soul <smile> back to life! But in order to really believe that same-body theory, you'd have to believe that God brings back the same body, lol, and fits the soul into that body, isn't that right, according to you?

When you are ill and then healed do you have the same body? When you have surgery and recovery do you still retain the same body? The difference is that it is healed but the body is the same as the one that was ill.
.
Your confusion is painful to see and so great and down right infantile you need to forget everything you think you have learned from men and start over with the basics. Forget the man made and start with the scriptures alone and learn to read in context.That is the only way you will replace all your confusion with truth.

“email at ihveit@aol.com ”

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#1049
Feb 13, 2013
 
borgfree wrote:
<quoted text>
Just my 2.
If God forbids humans to contact spirits He surly must have the same restrictions on the spirits. So, both sides would be breaking God's rule.
I would think/guess that God does not want us to know what it is like after death, for some good reasons. People complain that if there was life after death, Lazarus would have told everyone all about it, I would think, probably, Jesus told Lazarus, as He told others, "tell no one", again for the reasons only God knows.
ihv i totally agree.. tradtion tells us that after lazarus was raised the never smiled again..
will

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#1050
Feb 13, 2013
 

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miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
So this convinces you that it's ok to talk with the dead? Or to pray to those you think are alive in the spirit realm or whatever, but are not God?
I dont know what you read, but that was nothing at all in the verses I posted.

In those verses it is clear that "we" CAN NOT communicate with the dead.

God put in a safe guard to protect us from evil spirits(not dead humans).

He said, "Dont talk to them"!
fds

Swansea, UK

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#1051
Feb 13, 2013
 

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dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> LOL OF course you do as I do , as many others do,as a nurse ,I know how the body works.
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Miseracord is a fine example of the WT teaching that education is not desired in order to be a follower of false teachers and false prophets.
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It is sad that they don't use all their zeal to preach the Good News instead of a cult of men and thereby lose their everlasting life because they don't read and believe scriptures alone.
Hi
Presuming to know the accademic ability of others can make you look a fool, as i think Miseracord must be feeling right now. People like you and I can have a good laugh really, So glad your another person like myself.
Prime

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#1052
Feb 13, 2013
 

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miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>How is it a ridiculous question? Before you even go into the same body business, you have to answer if the soul fits into the same body, lol.(If it will come out of purgatory, heaven or hell.) Furthermore, that God 'heals' a body that has completely corrupted, shows that it is not the same body! God's power is beyond understanding to bring the person, body and soul <smile> back to life! But in order to really believe that same-body theory, you'd have to believe that God brings back the same body, lol, and fits the soul into that body, isn't that right, according to you?
LOL! Yep, that's right! I guess it's beyond reason to you that the soul wouldn't fit back into the body it came out of because it what expands to much when it leaves or grows perhaps?

Do you have any more perfectly reasonable remarks or questions?
dee lightful

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#1053
Feb 13, 2013
 
fds wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi
Presuming to know the accademic ability of others can make you look a fool, as i think Miseracord must be feeling right now. People like you and I can have a good laugh really, So glad your another person like myself.
It make me wonder just how old miseracord really is as she comes out with the most foolish things I have ever heard.
BTW, I do so very much enjoy your intelligent posts.It is so good to heard some intelligent responses rather than the robotic repetition of flip flopping men that JW's believe is gospel even when it contradicts the scriptures.It is no wonder JW's are confused about so many things.

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#1054
Feb 13, 2013
 
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
ihv and i am sure you have a much better explanation for luke 16? why dont you give us the wt version since we all need a really good laugh
will
As soon as you give your expert opinion about enoch, how about that?

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#1055
Feb 13, 2013
 

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Prime wrote:
<quoted text>LOL! Yep, that's right! I guess it's beyond reason to you that the soul wouldn't fit back into the body it came out of because it what expands to much when it leaves or grows perhaps?
Do you have any more perfectly reasonable remarks or questions?
ROFLOL! Yes, I do. How about taking someone out of purgatory and putting them in a body. Oh, but wait! How can they appear for a judgment if they've been exhumed from purgatory? lolol.

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