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#364
Jan 15, 2014
 

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RedhorseWoman wrote:
<quoted text>
What you need to do is try to ignore the JW apologists here. Their standard mantra if anything is posted that shows any aspect of the JW organization in a negative light is "liar." Those of us who have been here for awhile know that the "liar" label will come out constantly--especially if any of us post about a personal experience that doesn't make the JW organization look good.
What is really rather funny is that El Cacique isn't even a JW. He supposedly is married to a JW and was brought up as a JW, but he never got baptized and, when called out on it, refers to himself as merely an "interested person."
He probably will never become a JW since he seems to love his worldly pleasures to a greater degree than he loves the religion he claims to believe is the "Truth." He also tends to be the most vile and disgusting poster this board has ever seen when he gets riled up, and that tends to be quite frequently.
So, take what he says with a huge grain of salt. Vent as you need to and take whatever seems to be of benefit to you and ignore the rest.
RHW is telling you the truth. Don't let him get to you.:)
El Cacique

New York, NY

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#365
Jan 15, 2014
 

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RedhorseWoman wrote:
<quoted text>
What you need to do is try to ignore the JW apologists here. Their standard mantra if anything is posted that shows any aspect of the JW organization in a negative light is "liar." Those of us who have been here for awhile know that the "liar" label will come out constantly--especially if any of us post about a personal experience that doesn't make the JW organization look good.
What is really rather funny is that El Cacique isn't even a JW. He supposedly is married to a JW and was brought up as a JW, but he never got baptized and, when called out on it, refers to himself as merely an "interested person."
He probably will never become a JW since he seems to love his worldly pleasures to a greater degree than he loves the religion he claims to believe is the "Truth." He also tends to be the most vile and disgusting poster this board has ever seen when he gets riled up, and that tends to be quite frequently.
So, take what he says with a huge grain of salt. Vent as you need to and take whatever seems to be of benefit to you and ignore the rest.
You're lying, Gail. Period.

You don't know me nor anything of my life other than what i CHOOSE to share here.

My faith walk is MY walk alone. It's much the same with everybody else.

Again.....You're lying on me and exaggerating.......What else is new with you, Gail?.

You will believe anything if it has an anti-witness bent to it.

In fact....I wouldn't at all be surprised if this was just another one of your buddies trying to stir the pot for some excitement....In all fairness, perhaps, you don't even know about it.

It surely wouldn't be the first time nor will it be the last.
El Cacique

New York, NY

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#366
Jan 15, 2014
 

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TrippinToni wrote:
<quoted text>
He says he was not having relations. Look, I just found out about the other woman last weekend and I will admit, to my shame, that I went through his cell phone while he was sleeping and although the message was deleted, it was still in the history. I listened to it, woke him up and confronted him, he said it was nothing although it certainly didn't sound like "nothing" to me. This woman never attended meetings with him, I was there so how could the elders have known. We did not live together so I did not know what he was up to every night even though the message I listened to referred to a daytime meeting. Should I have gathered more information prior to our getting married? Hell yes. 20 20 hindsight. I thought I was doing the right thing. I had not been widowed that long. I made a mistake and I am paying for it. What else can I say? What I don't understand is why anyone would think I am making this up. What do I possibly have to gain. This is the outlet I have because I am too humiliated to go to my family with this.
IF what you are saying is true....Then, perhaps,you should look into getting an annulment if you were married under false pretenses. Although, you getting an annulment may pose a problem for him if he wants to get married again...But that would be HIS problem. Not yours.

But, you as a non-witness can simply go on with your life and decide to marry again if that's what you wish.

I say do it.....You don't sound happy....And IF he was truly being deceitful while he was going out with you as you ALLEGE....Then why on earth would you even bother staying married to this guy?. I mean what's the point??...You are not even crazy about his religion.

I am a big believer in the marriage arrangement.... But, if i were you in the emotional state that YOU SAY you are presently in.

I say "cut your losses" get an annulment and keep it moving.

However, as i stated from the beginning of this thread and I WILL SAY IT AGAIN.

He should not have married you if he was planning on getting reinstated.

You should make it a priority to see a therapist along with a marriage counselor, if he is willing to go, PRONTO...And set a timetable to make those critical decisions within a reasonable amount of time before more of your life passes you by.

Good luck!

Since: Oct 13

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#368
Jan 15, 2014
 
Tragic. So sorry to read this....it's painful.

My hope is that he will leave that crazy organization. Please get him to do research.

www.leavingjehovahswitnesses.org

Since: Feb 07

RI

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#369
Jan 15, 2014
 

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El Cacique wrote:
<quoted text> You're lying, Gail. Period.
You don't know me nor anything of my life other than what i CHOOSE to share here.
My faith walk is MY walk alone. It's much the same with everybody else.
Again.....You're lying on me and exaggerating.......What else is new with you, Gail?.
You will believe anything if it has an anti-witness bent to it.
In fact....I wouldn't at all be surprised if this was just another one of your buddies trying to stir the pot for some excitement....In all fairness, perhaps, you don't even know about it.
It surely wouldn't be the first time nor will it be the last.
Case in point--out came the "liar" label. LOL What, exactly, are you claiming I'm lying about?

All I've done is relate what you have CHOSEN to share here. Did you not say that you were raised as a JW? Why, yes, you did. Did you not say that you are married to a JW? Why, yes, again.

Did you not say that you are not baptized, but that you are considered to be "an interested one"? Yes, again. Do you not post about politics and how you have so many responsibilities that you really can't do much as far as the JWs are concerned, along with your mentioning being involved in boxing and other worldly pursuits? Again, yes.

Have you not posted some of the most disgusting things ever placed on this forum? Why, yes, again. I don't know anyone else who has told other posters to go lick their mother's genitalia (said, of course, in the most crude way possible.) And that's just one of your little gems that you brush off as being of no consequence, since, of course, you are merely "an interested one" and you "have a temper" and don't hesitate to vilify those you don't like in the most crude manner possible.

And I have exaggerated nothing. Please point out my "lies" and any place where I "exaggerated" anything whatsoever. Be my guest. We are waiting. Show Toni what a wonderful example of how the JW religion has shaped YOUR life.

Since: Dec 12

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#370
Jan 15, 2014
 

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RedhorseWoman wrote:
<quoted text>
Case in point--out came the "liar" label. LOL What, exactly, are you claiming I'm lying about?
All I've done is relate what you have CHOSEN to share here. Did you not say that you were raised as a JW? Why, yes, you did. Did you not say that you are married to a JW? Why, yes, again.
Did you not say that you are not baptized, but that you are considered to be "an interested one"? Yes, again. Do you not post about politics and how you have so many responsibilities that you really can't do much as far as the JWs are concerned, along with your mentioning being involved in boxing and other worldly pursuits? Again, yes.
Have you not posted some of the most disgusting things ever placed on this forum? Why, yes, again. I don't know anyone else who has told other posters to go lick their mother's genitalia (said, of course, in the most crude way possible.) And that's just one of your little gems that you brush off as being of no consequence, since, of course, you are merely "an interested one" and you "have a temper" and don't hesitate to vilify those you don't like in the most crude manner possible.
And I have exaggerated nothing. Please point out my "lies" and any place where I "exaggerated" anything whatsoever. Be my guest. We are waiting. Show Toni what a wonderful example of how the JW religion has shaped YOUR life.
Frankly.... I couldn't care less what Toni thinks. You mentioned my name and i defended myself by answering your slanderous accusation.

==========

You have lied and made up outrageous stories against my person time and time again. All of these lies, wild stories and accusations you have engaged in with the sole purpose of slandering me.

I'm not doing the tit-for-tat posting with you. Actually, i very much refrain from engaging in that form of posting anymore with most of your gang.

So...Let's end this right here and right now this round.

I actually have a life to attend too and posting with you is simply a huge waste of my time. If i have learned nothing else productive from listening to you chronic complainers then i have done well.

Gail.......You're an apostate today and you will certainly be an apostate tomorrow and so on......

Enjoy your evening, Gail.

==========

Go ahead, knock yourself out and have the last word...... But, i won't be listening.
Jorge

San Juan, Puerto Rico

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#371
Jan 15, 2014
 

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El cacique wrote:
<quoted text> Frankly.... I couldn't care less what Toni thinks. You mentioned my name and i defended myself by answering your slanderous accusation.
==========
You have lied and made up outrageous stories against my person time and time again. All of these lies, wild stories and accusations you have engaged in with the sole purpose of slandering me.
I'm not doing the tit-for-tat posting with you. Actually, i very much refrain from engaging in that form of posting anymore with most of your gang.
So...Let's end this right here and right now this round.
I actually have a life to attend too and posting with you is simply a huge waste of my time. If i have learned nothing else productive from listening to you chronic complainers then i have done well.
Gail.......You're an apostate today and you will certainly be an apostate tomorrow and so on......
Enjoy your evening, Gail.
==========
Go ahead, knock yourself out and have the last word...... But, i won't be listening.
Sure you will.

Since: Feb 07

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#372
Jan 15, 2014
 

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El cacique wrote:
<quoted text> Frankly.... I couldn't care less what Toni thinks. You mentioned my name and i defended myself by answering your slanderous accusation.
==========
You have lied and made up outrageous stories against my person time and time again. All of these lies, wild stories and accusations you have engaged in with the sole purpose of slandering me.
I'm not doing the tit-for-tat posting with you. Actually, i very much refrain from engaging in that form of posting anymore with most of your gang.
So...Let's end this right here and right now this round.
I actually have a life to attend too and posting with you is simply a huge waste of my time. If i have learned nothing else productive from listening to you chronic complainers then i have done well.
Gail.......You're an apostate today and you will certainly be an apostate tomorrow and so on......
Enjoy your evening, Gail.
==========
Go ahead, knock yourself out and have the last word...... But, i won't be listening.
Slanderous accusations? Such as? Name them. Lies, exaggerations? Like what? Name them and show the exact quotes.

(Now watch...he will pull out the old "I don't save posts" (although he does post private emails when he's trying to skewer somebody) or he will claim that he doesn't have time to look anything up and will probably finish off with "everybody knows about the lies you've told about me" but he will list NOTHING simply because he is the one lying.)

Perhaps Toni can now get a glimpse of the real you and notice that the other JW apologists stay mum while you rant and foam at the mouth. You are just too easy...really...you are. LOL

Oh, and I did NOT mention your "name," but I notice that you immediately mentioned mine. Are you now going to say horrible things about my family while declaring that your family is off limits? Such a thin veneer of "Christian" on you...so thin...but the real you oozes out very quickly and it's not pretty.

Since: Aug 12

Aberdeen, UK

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#373
Jan 16, 2014
 
El Cacique wrote:
<quoted text> IF what you are saying is true....Then, perhaps,you should look into getting an annulment if you were married under false pretenses. Although, you getting an annulment may pose a problem for him if he wants to get married again...But that would be HIS problem. Not yours.
But, you as a non-witness can simply go on with your life and decide to marry again if that's what you wish.
I say do it.....You don't sound happy....And IF he was truly being deceitful while he was going out with you as you ALLEGE....Then why on earth would you even bother staying married to this guy?. I mean what's the point??...You are not even crazy about his religion.
I am a big believer in the marriage arrangement.... But, if i were you in the emotional state that YOU SAY you are presently in.
I say "cut your losses" get an annulment and keep it moving.
However, as i stated from the beginning of this thread and I WILL SAY IT AGAIN.
He should not have married you if he was planning on getting reinstated.
You should make it a priority to see a therapist along with a marriage counselor, if he is willing to go, PRONTO...And set a timetable to make those critical decisions within a reasonable amount of time before more of your life passes you by.
Good luck!
I'm sorry but advising someone ***over the internet*** to get an annulment is about as reckless as you can get. This world is full enough of dysfunction and broken homes/families without people giving advise like that. It's nobody's business for one thing, but the fact that Toni came here as a last resort looking for an outlet of the complicated problems in her life shows that she wants to help the situation, not give up and run. Nothing is beyond repair, and you always have to make effort to make a marriage work (it's not just natural and as fundamentally romantic as some people like to imagine).

We all make mistakes, and the initial stages of a relationship can be like a roller-coaster. God only knows the crap I put my wife through when we first met (she too was emotional and confused). I lost count of the amount of times we were "going to split up". Real love is founded upon getting to know each other, not just some fuzzy feeling (although the 2 go hand in hand when the right things are prioritized). The better stuff comes later, so long as you don't take each other for granted.

In my opinion, if you really can't make a marriage work (unless you're just with the biggest and most selfish *sswhole in the world) then likely the problem resides with YOU and your inability to compromise/sympathize/put the other person first. You don't have a problem with marriage, it's relationships with people period (and that's what you need to work on, not working alongside the opposite sex).

Since: Jan 13

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#374
Jan 16, 2014
 
El Cacique wrote:
<quoted text> IF what you are saying is true....Then, perhaps,you should look into getting an annulment if you were married under false pretenses. Although, you getting an annulment may pose a problem for him if he wants to get married again...But that would be HIS problem. Not yours.
But, you as a non-witness can simply go on with your life and decide to marry again if that's what you wish.
I say do it.....You don't sound happy....And IF he was truly being deceitful while he was going out with you as you ALLEGE....Then why on earth would you even bother staying married to this guy?. I mean what's the point??...You are not even crazy about his religion.
I am a big believer in the marriage arrangement.... But, if i were you in the emotional state that YOU SAY you are presently in.
I say "cut your losses" get an annulment and keep it moving.
However, as i stated from the beginning of this thread and I WILL SAY IT AGAIN.
He should not have married you if he was planning on getting reinstated.
You should make it a priority to see a therapist along with a marriage counselor, if he is willing to go, PRONTO...And set a timetable to make those critical decisions within a reasonable amount of time before more of your life passes you by.
Good luck!
You are correct. I do have a therapist though. I guess he shouldn't have married me or I him, but we ARE married and although we may not stay married, I do not want to jeopardize his chance of remarrying within the organization some day. Gosh, he is 64, but I guess that could still happen. I know he does not want to live a life without a mate. It is extremely important to him to be a part of the congregation and he is 100% sincere in his devotion to Jehovah.

Since: Jan 13

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#375
Jan 16, 2014
 
I am not sure how you all know so much about each other, but I guess I am guilty of providing too much information myself. I want everyone who has responded to any of my questions or concerns that I REALLY do appreciate it. Both the positive and negative have given me food for thought. It would have been easy to rely solely on JW. org, which I spend a lot of time on, or go to a site where everyone is against Jehovah's Witnesses, but the banter and energy on this board is like being a part of an ongoing conversation. I am extremely pleased that I have not heard a word bashing Jehovah or Jesus Christ and that most of the negativity, aside that amongst yourselves, seems to center around the Governing Body or the Watchtower Organization. Every single Witness I have ever met has been very, very cordial to me and seemed only interested in my well being even though I was dating one who was disfellowshipped. I truly believe that if the entire human race followed the principles the Witnesses do, we would live in a much more peaceful world.

Since: Dec 12

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#376
Jan 16, 2014
 
Brother P wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry but advising someone ***over the internet*** to get an annulment is about as reckless as you can get. This world is full enough of dysfunction and broken homes/families without people giving advise like that. It's nobody's business for one thing, but the fact that Toni came here as a last resort looking for an outlet of the complicated problems in her life shows that she wants to help the situation, not give up and run. Nothing is beyond repair, and you always have to make effort to make a marriage work (it's not just natural and as fundamentally romantic as some people like to imagine).
We all make mistakes, and the initial stages of a relationship can be like a roller-coaster. God only knows the crap I put my wife through when we first met (she too was emotional and confused). I lost count of the amount of times we were "going to split up". Real love is founded upon getting to know each other, not just some fuzzy feeling (although the 2 go hand in hand when the right things are prioritized). The better stuff comes later, so long as you don't take each other for granted.
In my opinion, if you really can't make a marriage work (unless you're just with the biggest and most selfish *sswhole in the world) then likely the problem resides with YOU and your inability to compromise/sympathize/put the other person first. You don't have a problem with marriage, it's relationships with people period (and that's what you need to work on, not working alongside the opposite sex).
Perhaps, you should state this to Toni. not me,.

Toni was the one who came here and drudged up all her personal business in front of strangers. I duly warned her not to.

It was I who told her she was making a mistake in coming to this extremely dysfunctional site to air her grievances. It's all there right at the beginning of this thread.

YES. I believe an annulment is a very good possibility if she married him under false pretenses.

Didn't she say that she married him without knowing that he was seeing another women on the side?... This was all the while he was trying to get reinstated.

I don't know what to believe but the story stinks either way.

It is MY OPINION and i will continue to hold onto MY OPINION.

Since: Dec 12

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#377
Jan 16, 2014
 
RedhorseWoman wrote:
<quoted text>
Slanderous accusations? Such as? Name them. Lies, exaggerations? Like what? Name them and show the exact quotes.
(Now watch...he will pull out the old "I don't save posts" (although he does post private emails when he's trying to skewer somebody) or he will claim that he doesn't have time to look anything up and will probably finish off with "everybody knows about the lies you've told about me" but he will list NOTHING simply because he is the one lying.)
Perhaps Toni can now get a glimpse of the real you and notice that the other JW apologists stay mum while you rant and foam at the mouth. You are just too easy...really...you are. LOL
Oh, and I did NOT mention your "name," but I notice that you immediately mentioned mine. Are you now going to say horrible things about my family while declaring that your family is off limits? Such a thin veneer of "Christian" on you...so thin...but the real you oozes out very quickly and it's not pretty.
(((YAWN))))

Since: Dec 12

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#378
Jan 16, 2014
 

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TrippinToni wrote:
<quoted text>
You are correct. I do have a therapist though. I guess he shouldn't have married me or I him, but we ARE married and although we may not stay married, I do not want to jeopardize his chance of remarrying within the organization some day. Gosh, he is 64, but I guess that could still happen. I know he does not want to live a life without a mate. It is extremely important to him to be a part of the congregation and he is 100% sincere in his devotion to Jehovah.
What do you care?.....If you are not happy being married and have plenty of questions about the witnesses. Life for him will not get any easier.... Believe you me... Already, you are on these sites and the atmosphere WILL only get worse as time goes on and you will get revved up listening to these oppossers.

You will be doing him a favor in the long run by divorcing him. He can work things out on his own.

Truly.....This is the wrong place to be to be airing your grievances.

Are you saying that he was your actual therapist or are you speaking in a figurative sense since you are married to him?.

Since: Aug 12

Aberdeen, UK

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#379
Jan 16, 2014
 
El cacique wrote:
<quoted text> Perhaps, you should state this to Toni. not me,.
Toni was the one who came here and drudged up all her personal business in front of strangers. I duly warned her not to.
It was I who told her she was making a mistake in coming to this extremely dysfunctional site to air her grievances. It's all there right at the beginning of this thread.
YES. I believe an annulment is a very good possibility if she married him under false pretenses.
Didn't she say that she married him without knowing that he was seeing another women on the side?... This was all the while he was trying to get reinstated.
I don't know what to believe but the story stinks either way.
It is MY OPINION and i will continue to hold onto MY OPINION.
It wouldn't be my first choice of seeking help on a matter like this (i.e. internet forum), but what's done is done. I just don't think it's a good idea to give absolute/conclusive advise on something as personal and unsubstantial as this (especially a one-sided story). For one thing (correct me if I'm wrong), but it's not even been established if Toni's husband actually physically cheated? Not downplaying the wrong either way, but details like this makes quite a difference.

Put yourself in the husband's shoes, if you had made some silly mistakes and someone who doesn't know the situation at all advised her to separate because of it...how would you feel?

It just doesn't make sense to me why the husband would marry if very unsure about his feelings - it would have been far easier to cut the ties and get re-instated than it would have been to marry someone he didn't love. Either way you look at it, he's a pretty immature guy IMO, JW or not. Surely by 64 you've had enough time to get your act together? lol

Since: Jan 13

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#380
Jan 16, 2014
 
El cacique wrote:
<quoted text> What do you care?.....If you are not happy being married and have plenty of questions about the witnesses. Life for him will not get any easier.... Believe you me... Already, you are on these sites and the atmosphere WILL only get worse as time goes on and you will get revved up listening to these oppossers.
You will be doing him a favor in the long run by divorcing him. He can work things out on his own.
Truly.....This is the wrong place to be to be airing your grievances.
Are you saying that he was your actual therapist or are you speaking in a figurative sense since you are married to him?.
I have a therapist for the last three years and I do care. I love him. I just do not know if I can live his lifestyle. While he was disfellowshipped it was different. He seems like a totally different man since we married. I really do not understand why you are so angry with me. We are all on this site for a reason even though that reason is different for each of us. I mean no harm to you or anyone.

Since: Jan 13

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#381
Jan 16, 2014
 
El cacique wrote:
<quoted text> What do you care?.....If you are not happy being married and have plenty of questions about the witnesses. Life for him will not get any easier.... Believe you me... Already, you are on these sites and the atmosphere WILL only get worse as time goes on and you will get revved up listening to these oppossers.
You will be doing him a favor in the long run by divorcing him. He can work things out on his own.
Truly.....This is the wrong place to be to be airing your grievances.
Are you saying that he was your actual therapist or are you speaking in a figurative sense since you are married to him?.
And actually, I can live his lifestyle. There is nothing about the JW's I don't like. I even like the meetings although I think the songs are awful. And I know this is not the right place to air grievances. As I said, my husband knows how I feel and is concerned but will not engage in conversation about it . It is too frustrating for him. I do not want my children to worry and my therapist is a woman who gives me Joyce Meyers CDs. I can assure you this is not my only source of information but it us one with a dialogue.

Since: Aug 12

Aberdeen, UK

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#382
Jan 16, 2014
 
TrippinToni wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a therapist for the last three years and I do care. I love him. I just do not know if I can live his lifestyle. While he was disfellowshipped it was different. He seems like a totally different man since we married. I really do not understand why you are so angry with me. We are all on this site for a reason even though that reason is different for each of us. I mean no harm to you or anyone.
When I got re-instated I changed towards my wife too - became pushy (for my wife to "progress within the religion"). I was also very preoccupied with myself (getting "privileges" back within the congregation). I was touchy, and argumentative. My wife felt left out because my attention was taken from her towards the religion - the brothers and sisters etc. She felt disrespected, like I cared more about the religion/brotherhood than her. I began to distance myself to her family/friends (non JWs), it was almost "embarrassing" to me because I saw them as a hindrance and something holding me back in my "progress". I wanted to escape, or almost "quarantine" myself.

Needless to say all these things put huge burdens on both of us (made us distant). Sometimes, when under pressure, people seek a release in some way, which can lead to stupid mistakes (i.e. what your husband did).

You should understand that this is relatively "normal" for these kind of situations. Hopefully this will be reassuring somewhat...

Since: Jan 13

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#383
Jan 16, 2014
 
Brother P wrote:
<quoted text>
When I got re-instated I changed towards my wife too - became pushy (for my wife to "progress within the religion"). I was also very preoccupied with myself (getting "privileges" back within the congregation). I was touchy, and argumentative. My wife felt left out because my attention was taken from her towards the religion - the brothers and sisters etc. She felt disrespected, like I cared more about the religion/brotherhood than her. I began to distance myself to her family/friends (non JWs), it was almost "embarrassing" to me because I saw them as a hindrance and something holding me back in my "progress". I wanted to escape, or almost "quarantine" myself.
Needless to say all these things put huge burdens on both of us (made us distant). Sometimes, when under pressure, people seek a release in some way, which can lead to stupid mistakes (i.e. what your husband did).
You should understand that this is relatively "normal" for these kind of situations. Hopefully this will be reassuring somewhat...
It is, somewhat. Thank you

Since: Dec 12

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#384
Jan 16, 2014
 

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TrippinToni wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a therapist for the last three years and I do care. I love him. I just do not know if I can live his lifestyle. While he was disfellowshipped it was different. He seems like a totally different man since we married. I really do not understand why you are so angry with me. We are all on this site for a reason even though that reason is different for each of us. I mean no harm to you or anyone.
I am not angry with you, Toni.... I don't personally have anything invested in this to be angry about anything.

But, if you are not happy and he mislead you, then you should consult a divorce attorney and see what your options are. You may be able to get an annulment. The point that i really took issue with is you casually saying that you found out that he was dating other females while he was dating you all the while he was trying to get reinstated in the process.

That sure made the situation a lot more complicated.....Did the elders know of this?.

Again....This is not the forum for that.. Forget about the fact that he is a witness. Would you be want to be with someone who misled you into marriage under false pretense?.

It is all so very messy ACCORDING to what YOU have stated so far.

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