Who Degrades & Devalues God's Name Jehovah

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#1655
Nov 11, 2013
 

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Before I go into other subjects, I hope to have an orderly discussion about one question regarding Psalm 146:8 and Hebrews 1:6 and the "worship" of Father and Son.

Psalm 146:8 uses the word praise. Hebrews 1:6 in most translations uses the word worship. How do these two texts show that both Father and Son are to be worshipped, since Psalm 146 says praise and Hebrews 1:6 says worship.
Pat

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#1656
Nov 11, 2013
 
PRAISE AND WORSHIP often used to mean the same thing so I would suppose for someone looking to nit pick the use of the two words can be an arguing point .
The point should be BOTH Father and Son receive worship and we are told the same honor should be given the son as is given that FaTHER .
Pat

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#1657
Nov 11, 2013
 
John 5:23 - All men should honor the Son "just as" they honor the Father. To fail to give this honor to the Son is to fail to properly honor the Father.

Matthew 2:2 “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”

Matthew 2:11 “And when they had come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him.”

Matthew 14:33 “Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, Truly you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 28:9 “And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, Rejoice! And they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him.”

Matthew 28:17 “And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.”

John 9:38 “Then he said,‘Lord, I believe!’ And he worshiped Him.”

Hebrews 1:6 “But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

Testimony of the New Testament is clear: Jesus accepted worship. Luke 24:52

So we can pick on whether praise equals worship all day scriptures tell us Jesus received worship .Praise is a form of worship in the minds of many people others maybe not , however that aside scripture does show Jesus was worshipped .
YOU GRILL PEOPLE THAT IS YOUR PURPOSE HERE , so there is your answer some see praise as a form of worship others may not the question should be did and does Jesus receive worship and HE DOES .Auldsoul 1 MADE SOME GOOD POINTS .
Pat

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#1658
Nov 11, 2013
 

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Schleptik wrote:
Before I go into other subjects, I hope to have an orderly discussion about one question regarding Psalm 146:8 and Hebrews 1:6 and the "worship" of Father and Son.
Psalm 146:8 uses the word praise. Hebrews 1:6 in most translations uses the word worship. How do these two texts show that both Father and Son are to be worshipped, since Psalm 146 says praise and Hebrews 1:6 says worship.
Perhaps that wasn't the best example however when reading the scriptures we do find BOTH are worshipped and that is what is important does scripture back up BOTH RECEVING WORSHIP .
dee lightful

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#1660
Nov 11, 2013
 

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little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Trinity not a word found in scripture
Jehovah's name is recorded in scripture, are you accusing the King james version as being corrupt as well?
As the name Jehovah is found in there as well
By the way the scripture you quote
" For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
I believe what it says ..after all God purposes to bring everything in heaven and earth back into union with Christ
So one would expect unity with all in heaven once Satan was kicked out.
By the way 'trinity' is not mentioned in the scripture and neither is the word God...trying to imply One God from that scripture takes a bit of adding on.
It doesn't matter what you call it for the inspired word of God says,
1 John 5:7 KJV
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
.What would you call it?
.
It's really sad how you continue with the picking and choosing what scriptures you want to believe from a mis=translation of scripture called the NWT.
.
Yes, the KJV made an honest mistake in adding Jehovah to the scriptures but at least they didn't multiple that error hundreds of times because they arrogantly took the name for themselves, they are now correcting that error.
.
The WT says Yahweh is more correct so did they delete Jehovah in their new version and put the more correct Yahweh in stead? Of course they didn't for then they stand with lies all over their face by insisting the name Jehovah is necessary for salvation.
Pat

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#1661
Nov 11, 2013
 
dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> It doesn't matter what you call it for the inspired word of God says,
1 John 5:7 KJV
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
.What would you call it?
.
It's really sad how you continue with the picking and choosing what scriptures you want to believe from a mis=translation of scripture called the NWT.
.
Yes, the KJV made an honest mistake in adding Jehovah to the scriptures but at least they didn't multiple that error hundreds of times because they arrogantly took the name for themselves, they are now correcting that error.
.
The WT says Yahweh is more correct so did they delete Jehovah in their new version and put the more correct Yahweh in stead? Of course they didn't for then they stand with lies all over their face by insisting the name Jehovah is necessary for salvation.
I cannot find any scriptures that say saying Jehovah is necessary for our sakvation or that belonging to a specific denomination is either .Our salvation is in Jesus name and his work ar Calvary we are either saved by the blood of the lamb or we aren't .
dee lightful

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#1662
Nov 11, 2013
 
Schleptik wrote:
<quoted text>
Not vowelized with a "J" in Hebrew nor Greek? Clearly his mother never called him JESUS with a J sound. In any language.
<quoted text>
YHWH are letters transliterated from the Hebrew letters. Vocalization IS agreed when a population decides on the pronunciation of a group of LETTERS that form words. That is why the name JEHOVAH was used for hundreds of years since the King James Version, at Psalm 83:18. "That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth."
<quoted text>
Again you say that the Trinity is not a salvation issue. Great. And you say that it's not necessary to believe that God is a trinity in order to be saved.
You say YHWH cannot be pronounced; it can be pronounced; it has been transliterated in many languages accepted by people, and spoken by millions of trinitarians including the writers and readers of the King James Bible and churchgoers through the ages.
The scriptures show that the tetragrammaton is there. And that it has been written out as JEHOVAH or more recently as YAHWEH in English by scholars for centuries. To use the word LORD there for YHWH is not a truthful translation.
The scriptures say that the most high God's name is JEHOVAH.(Psalm 83:18, King James Version) His SON'S name is JESUS. Jehovah kept the tetragrammaton there so people can see His name, vowel points were not introduced until way after the Bible was completed, and no one today knows for sure the way any word in Hebrew was pronounced back then.
<quoted text>
If you read the BIBLE, including the King James Version, Psalm 83:18 says that the Most High God is JEHOVAH.
"That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth." Psalm 83:18, King James Version.
<quoted text>
"That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth." King James Version.
<quoted text>
So we shall leave it that you are not necessary to say anything, leave it to Jesus, he's higher than you are. And you also say that belief in the trinity is not necessary for salvation.
<quoted text>
Unfortunately you don't understand or admit your own lies. Until then, it is impossible to go on with clarity.
Why does the WT say Jehovah is not correct and Yahweh is closer to the truth?
The answer to that question will put all your misconceptions to rest. Your misconceptions arise because the WT teaches confusion.for the tell you Jehovah is nor correct but to use an incorrect name anyway because man has used that incorrect name since 1270 so it's okay to call God by the wrong name even when their is a more correct name.
Does that really make sense to you who should be interested in only the truth?

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#1663
Nov 11, 2013
 

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Schleptik wrote:
<quoted text>
Is belief in the trinity necessary for salvation? dee says it is not. She also says I shouldn't believe you or her, since she says I should only believe the Bible -- not the word of men -- and I don't see that belief in the Trinity is necessary for salvation as recorded in the BIBLE. Therefore, belief in the made up trinity is not necessary for salvation. In fact -- belief in the made up trinity might ensure that someone is NOT saved.
.
. Is there any biblical proof that one might not be saved if they Perhaps believed in the trinity or hellfire.. People have formed opinions on a lot of things.. that may or may not be founded in truth.. the question is.. why does is become such a judgmental point for those that don't see it as they do?? There is evidence that point to these concepts..Whether you see them or not..
I don't see where the bible speaks of a Church being chosen to replace the so called chosen people of Christ's day.. And no one as of yet..has step forward from your Org..to show how that concept is derived.. YET! the fact is ..you believe it..

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#1664
Nov 11, 2013
 
Schleptik wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean like yourself. God will not do as your religion teaches He will. Does your pastor ever talk about Armageddon and what it means? Does he ever discuss floating in midair, leaving the "sinners" behind? Just curious. You don't even agree with your pastor on some issues, some people here swear by certain things like Christmas, Easter, celebrations, the Bible you use probably has Jehovah's name in it (you say your pastor uses it, and you use it), yet you think you're now in a better place while you keep knocking your former beliefs, siding with those who speak horrendously about the name you and your pastor occasionally use, Jehovah? Just because you obviously didn't understand who Jesus is (and you probably believe he is part of a trinity, too) when you were supposedly one of Jehovah's Witnesses, you think now you have "found Jesus"? I think you have not. But -- you think one way, I think another and God thinks His way.
When you answer the two questions I have ask, I will then respond gladly to your comments. If you do not answer them, I guess we are done.

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#1665
Nov 11, 2013
 

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Pat wrote:
PRAISE AND WORSHIP often used to mean the same thing so I would suppose for someone looking to nit pick the use of the two words can be an arguing point .
I don't think it would be nitpicking, since one translation uses praise of Jehovah, yet when it is repeated in application to the son, not only is praise not used, but worship is -- as applying to the son.

Sorry if you think it's nitpicking, but a good question to keep in mind is why did the translators do that? Obviously you wouldn't want me to believe you without investigating the validity of your statements regarding your summation of what the Bible really means, would you? I say this without ill feeling, but when I hear some things about what I believe or should believe, I sometimes ask questions, going into as much detail as possible.:-) I'm sorry you feel it's nitpicking.

I feel you are glossing over these verses with an unsubstantiated explanation, giving only your word for it. I do not feel it's nitpicking.

One says praise -- why? And the other, claiming to be a direct parallel to psalms, says worship. Why are they so differently phrased in those translations, yet supposedly direct quotations?

American Standard Version says:
Praise ye Jehovah. Praise ye Jehovah from the heavens: Praise him in the heights.

2PRAISE YE HIM, ALL HIS ANGELS: PRAISE YE HIM, ALL HIS HOST.

3Praise ye him, sun and moon: Praise him, all ye stars of light.

4Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, And ye waters that are above the heavens.

5Let them praise the NAME OF JEHOVAH; For he commanded, and they were created.

Hebrews 1 says:(New Living Translation)

And when he brought his supreme Son into the world, God said, "Let all of God's angels worship him."

So many translations -- all so different from one another. And yes, the more I examine those various translations, it seems apparent to me that the translators of the NT, quoting from the OT, greatly changed the words.

If you don't want to go into it more, I am disappointed, but I respect your decision.
Pat wrote:
The point should be BOTH Father and Son receive worship and we are told the same honor should be given the son as is given that FaTHER .
That is your summation. I don't see that yet from those scriptures. I asked you why one says praise, and the other says worship, for starters. Your answer is that they often mean the same thing. Perhaps they do, but why do the translators say praise in the psalm, and most say worship in Hebrews? I must say it saddens me that you believe I should take your word for it as to why it was translated as praise in the psalm and not worship, and why it was not quoted properly from the psalm in the NT. I was willing to hear your viewpoint as to why not one NT translation there has it directly quoted as praise from the OT, but as worship. It seems the popular and major translators didn't quote accurately there. I am willing to hear your viewpoint, but then please expect that if I don't understand it, I will ask you questions.

I could be wrong, but how do you figure they used worship at Hebrews, yet use the word praise at Psalms? Why didn't the translators quote directly and exactly from the psalm? You drew my attention to that, Pat, in your summation and explanation of all three being God, father and son to be worshipped as you say the scriptures say. When I checked it out, I don't see those scriptures say that, yet you offer the explanation that praise can mean worship. That is not how the translators used those scriptures, Pat. Do you know why the translators didn't quote it as written from the psalms?

Those are legitimate questions based on the conversations we're having. If you don't think they are, that's up to you.

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#1666
Nov 11, 2013
 
Maravilla wrote:
<quoted text>
.
. Is there any biblical proof that one might not be saved if they Perhaps believed in the trinity or hellfire.. People have formed opinions on a lot of things.. that may or may not be founded in truth.. the question is.. why does is become such a judgmental point for those that don't see it as they do?? There is evidence that point to these concepts..Whether you see them or not..
I don't see where the bible speaks of a Church being chosen to replace the so called chosen people of Christ's day.. And no one as of yet..has step forward from your Org..to show how that concept is derived.. YET! the fact is ..you believe it..
.
. Apparent there is no proof.. and that gave you indigestion.. As your little icons a proof positive that your toes have been stepped on..

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#1667
Nov 11, 2013
 

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dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> Why does the WT say Jehovah is not correct and Yahweh is closer to the truth?
Hi, dee. If my memory serves me correct, it does not say that, again, I believe you are misrepresenting. If Yahweh is "closer to the truth," as you say the WT says,(which I do not believe it says that) then it's obvious that Yeshua is "closer to the truth," too.

Jehovah IS correct. When a population accepts a word as the right way of saying it, that's the right way for those people. If another group says it's not the right way, they can start their own way of saying it. Such differences make up regional ways of saying things, sometimes to the point of difference that one region does not understand the other after a period of time of evolving from one pronunciation to another. It doesn't mean that the other is "wrong." The King James Version of the Bible has and churches have for centuries said Jehovah. The name can be pronounced, even though some say it cannot be.

Psalm 83:18 "That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth." (King James)

"That they may know that thou alone, whose name is Jehovah, Art the Most High over all the earth." (American Standard)

As for the name Jesus, some English speaking persons do say Yeshua. And some would say 'Yeshua ha-Mashiach' and know what it means. But if a person says Jesus Christ, the recognition is immediate. It's similar to Jehovah. Recognition in a language. That is what language and words are all about.
Tao itness

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#1668
Nov 11, 2013
 

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The Divine Name Brochure p.10, by the Watchtower Society states:

"Even though the modern pronunciation Jehovah might not be exactly the way it was pronounced originally, this in no way detracts from the importance of the name. While many translators favor the pronunciation Yahweh, the New World Translation and also a number of other translations continue the use of the form Jehovah because of people's familiarity with it for centuries."
Tao itness

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#1669
Nov 11, 2013
 
the New Testament was not written in Hebrew. Jesus and His apostles spoke Greek Jesus name is a translation from the Greek Iesous. Pronounced yazoos.
dee lightful

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#1670
Nov 11, 2013
 

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Schleptik wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think it would be nitpicking, since one translation uses praise of Jehovah, yet when it is repeated in application to the son, not only is praise not used, but worship is -- as applying to the son.
Sorry if you think it's nitpicking, but a good question to keep in mind is why did the translators do that? Obviously you wouldn't want me to believe you without investigating the validity of your statements regarding your summation of what the Bible really means, would you? I say this without ill feeling, but when I hear some things about what I believe or should believe, I sometimes ask questions, going into as much detail as possible.:-) I'm sorry you feel it's nitpicking.
I feel you are glossing over these verses with an unsubstantiated explanation, giving only your word for it. I do not feel it's nitpicking.
One says praise -- why? And the other, claiming to be a direct parallel to psalms, says worship. Why are they so differently phrased in those translations, yet supposedly direct quotations?
American Standard Version says:
Praise ye Jehovah. Praise ye Jehovah from the heavens: Praise him in the heights.
2PRAISE YE HIM, ALL HIS ANGELS: PRAISE YE HIM, ALL HIS HOST.
3Praise ye him, sun and moon: Praise him, all ye stars of light.
4Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, And ye waters that are above the heavens.
5Let them praise the NAME OF JEHOVAH; For he commanded, and they were created.
Hebrews 1 says:(New Living Translation)
And when he brought his supreme Son into the world, God said, "Let all of God's angels worship him."
So many translations -- all so different from one another. And yes, the more I examine those various translations, it seems apparent to me that the translators of the NT, quoting from the OT, greatly changed the words.
If you don't want to go into it more, I am disappointed, but I respect your decision.
<quoted text>
That is your summation. I don't see that yet from those scriptures. I asked you why one says praise, and the other says worship, for starters. Your answer is that they often mean the same thing. Perhaps they do, but why do the translators say praise in the psalm, and most say worship in Hebrews? I must say it saddens me that you believe I should take your word for it as to why it was translated as praise in the psalm and not worship, and why it was not quoted properly from the psalm in the NT. I was willing to hear your viewpoint as to why not one NT translation there has it directly quoted as praise from the OT, but as worship. It seems the popular and major translators didn't quote accurately there. I am willing to hear your viewpoint, but then please expect that if I don't understand it, I will ask you questions.
I could be wrong, but how do you figure they used worship at Hebrews, yet use the word praise at Psalms? Why didn't the translators quote directly and exactly from the psalm? You drew my attention to that, Pat, in your summation and explanation of all three being God, father and son to be worshipped as you say the scriptures say. When I checked it out, I don't see those scriptures say that, yet you offer the explanation that praise can mean worship. That is not how the translators used those scriptures, Pat. Do you know why the translators didn't quote it as written from the psalms?
Those are legitimate questions based on the conversations we're having. If you don't think they are, that's up to you.
Most translations are not different at all.
If you bothered to look in the dictionary you would fine that praise is a synonym of worship. You are indeed nip picking because you are trying very hard to make someone look wrong when it only points up your ignorance of not only scriptures but also the meaning of words.

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#1671
Nov 11, 2013
 

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"favor the pronunciation," "not be exactly the way it was pronounced originally," all that sounds reasonable. It doesn't say "closer to the truth." Because the truth is that the sound J does not exist in Hebrew. The truth is that the name Jesus was not said by his mother with a J sound. And the truth is that when a group accepts a way of pronouncing something, that is the truth of recognizing a word.

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#1672
Nov 11, 2013
 

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dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> Most translations are not different at all.
If you bothered to look in the dictionary you would fine that praise is a synonym of worship. You are indeed nip picking because you are trying very hard to make someone look wrong when it only points up your ignorance of not only scriptures but also the meaning of words.
So why didn't they use praise there instead of worship? BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO TRANSLATE THAT WAY, using a SYNONYM? You cannot explain why those very same translators did not repeat the words of the psalm, but inserted another word rather than praise -- that's the truth. Praise is not the same word as worship so why pretend it is, just like Jehovah is not Hebrew, dear, and Ioosus is not sounding like JESUS.
Tao itness

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#1673
Nov 11, 2013
 

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It was not until 1999 that worship of Jesus was finally removed from the Watchtower charter to simply state "arrange for and hold assemblies for religious worship;"

Worship of Jesus Becomes Idolatry

In the 1950's, the Watchtower changed their doctrine on Jesus to coincide with the release of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.

Contrary to most other translations, this new Bible for Jehovah's Witnesses translated the word proskuneo as obeisance rather than worship whenever it referred to Jesus. This is despite the fact that with almost every other occurrence, the New World Translation translates proskuneo as worship. Proskuneo occurs 55 times. Of the 15 times it applies to Jesus, it is translated 15 times as obeisance. Of the remaining 37 times it is translated 34 times as worship regardless of whether it is referring to Jehovah, angels, humans, Satan, demons, the wild beast or idols. Why this unusual stance in connection with Jesus?

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#1674
Nov 11, 2013
 

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I checked the interlinear, now you can say what you want, but the interlinear for Ps 148:2 says PRAISE as translation of the Hebrew there (haluhu)-- nothing about it meaning worship. Praise. Not worship at Ps. 148:2. You can say it means worship, but that is not what the interlinear says. Furthermore, not one English translation says worship at that verse. They all say, every last one of them, praise. So how does this mean that both father and son are to be worshipped, when they simply do not say the same thing about worship?(That's one question.) And the other question is why would a supposed restatement of ps. 148:2 use another word instead of praise there?
Pat

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#1675
Nov 11, 2013
 
dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> Most translations are not different at all.
If you bothered to look in the dictionary you would fine that praise is a synonym of worship. You are indeed nip picking because you are trying very hard to make someone look wrong when it only points up your ignorance of not only scriptures but also the meaning of words.
YES IT IS TRUE MANY PLACE PRAISE AND WORSHIP ON TE SAME LEVEL while I suppose they could mean something different if one was inclined to see it that way .Jesus and the Father both received worship which is clear from other scriptures which I posted and both are praised so while the wording of 2 scriptires where one uses praise the other worship further reading of scriptures show BOTH father and son received worship and that should settle the matter .God bless .

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