Mandating "Voluntary" Recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance: Christians v. Atheists in Massachus...

Sep 5, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Quebec Chronicle-Telegraph

Atheists and Christians are fighting again over reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools - this time in Massachusetts.

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Remnant143999

Rio Rancho, NM

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#1
Sep 5, 2013
 
Why are jw's against standing for the pledge of allegence or saluting the US flag? Would the wtbts disfellowship young unbaptised jw children for doing this?

Since: Jun 13

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#2
Sep 5, 2013
 
They believe no one should 'pledge allegiance to anyone other than Jehovah god and the watchtower bible and tract society.(a person cannot pledge their allegiance to Jehovah without at first pledging allegiance to the watchtower).

The reason why you should not do the pledge is because Satan the devil is the ruler of the united state government, so pledging allegiance to the U.S. would be satan worship. Also the flag is a idol of satan so pledging allegiance to the flag is an act of idol worship.

As with most aspects of the jw's, they have invented their own 'pledge of allegiance'. That is when they are baptized. When they are baptized they pledge their very souls to doing the will of the watchtower bible and tract society, aka Jehovah. Leaving the watchtower bible and tract is society is tatamount to treason and therefore the defector is executed(disfellowshipped) from the NATION of the jehovahs witnesses.

But personally aside from the jw's, I agree with the atheist view, there is a growing number of people who pledge to support our country, but don't pledge to support a god. But that's a whole different topic.
little lamb

Melbourne, Australia

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#3
Sep 5, 2013
 
Yes ..the Apostles state ' we should obey God as ruler rather then men'

Men were placed in authority to be servants of God and minister to Gods people ..

Some where along the line they forgot their position of 'servant' and started to demand the loyalty that belongs to God.
Dr Shrink

Baltimore, MD

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#4
Sep 5, 2013
 
I agree with JW stand

obedience to only god and His laws doesn't allow to pledge allgence to governments,churches, flags,militaries,or work for governments,or vote,

anyway
JW should also not pledge allegence and obedience to their leaders,
GOD RESIDE IN HEAVEN NOT WATCHTOWER SOCIETY BUNCH OF DECEIVED LEADERS, THAT WAY BAPTISM,AND LOYALITY,AND OBEDIENCE TO THEM IS SAME TRANSGRESSION-SIN
wages for sin is death.Rom 6;23

JW organizations is not God organization,and any shun,disfallowship or remover oposer from JW doesn't have any value,any effect or any removing someone from PERSONAL GODS GRACE EPH 2;8-9

from biblical point JW organization are same damned by GOD like whole satanic wicked christianity

if those leaders idiots believe that it is something different,
FOR SURE VERY SOON THEY WILL EXPERIENCE HORRIBLE DISAPOINTMENT-and will start weep and gnash teeth(if they have any left natural teeth)
UNchained

Loudon, TN

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#5
Sep 5, 2013
 
Exactly how does saying the U.S. pledge of allegiance make a person an enemy of God?

UNITED STATES PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE:

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
**********

Exactly how does saying the Jamaican pledge of allegiance make a person an enemy of God?

JAMAICA PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE

Before God and All mankind.
I pledge the love and loyalty of my heart
The wisdom and courage of my mind,
The strength and vigour of my body
in the service of my fellow citizens.

I promise to stand up for justice,
Brotherhood and Peace, to work diligently and creatively,
to think generously and honestly,

So that Jamaica may, under God,
increase in beauty, fellowship and prosperity, and play her part in advancing the welfare
of the whole human race.
little lamb

Melbourne, Australia

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#6
Sep 5, 2013
 
Let your 'yes' mean 'yes' and your 'no' mean 'no', anything in excess of these is from the devil...

Proverbs 11:15
Whoever puts up security for a stranger will surely suffer, but whoever refuses to shake hands in pledge is safe.
UNchained

Loudon, TN

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#7
Sep 5, 2013
 
little lamb wrote:
Let your 'yes' mean 'yes' and your 'no' mean 'no', anything in excess of these is from the devil...
Proverbs 11:15
Whoever puts up security for a stranger will surely suffer, but whoever refuses to shake hands in pledge is safe.
Do you believe that a person who says, believes and does the following words is going to suffer or is from the devil?...

Before God and All mankind.
I pledge the love and loyalty of my heart
The wisdom and courage of my mind,
The strength and vigour of my body
in the service of my fellow citizens.

I promise to stand up for justice,
Brotherhood and Peace, to work diligently and creatively, to think generously and honestly,

So that Jamaica may, under God,
increase in beauty, fellowship and prosperity, and play her part in advancing the welfare
of the whole human race.
little lamb

Melbourne, Australia

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#8
Sep 5, 2013
 
UNchained wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you believe that a person who says, believes and does the following words is going to suffer or is from the devil?...
Before God and All mankind.
I pledge the love and loyalty of my heart
The wisdom and courage of my mind,
The strength and vigour of my body
in the service of my fellow citizens.
I promise to stand up for justice,
Brotherhood and Peace, to work diligently and creatively, to think generously and honestly,
So that Jamaica may, under God,
increase in beauty, fellowship and prosperity, and play her part in advancing the welfare
of the whole human race.
Jesus tells us to love God and to love our fellowman...why is what Jesus teaches not enough for you?

why do you need to make great pledges to do so...?

Isn't your dedication to God, benefiting to others??
UNchained

Loudon, TN

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#9
Sep 5, 2013
 
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus tells us to love God and to love our fellowman...why is what Jesus teaches not enough for you?
why do you need to make great pledges to do so...?
Isn't your dedication to God, benefiting to others??
You are sidestepping.

Do you believe that a person who says, believes and does the following words is going to suffer or is from the devil?...

Before God and All mankind.
I pledge the love and loyalty of my heart
The wisdom and courage of my mind,
The strength and vigour of my body
in the service of my fellow citizens.

I promise to stand up for justice,
Brotherhood and Peace, to work diligently and creatively, to think generously and honestly,

So that Jamaica may, under God,
increase in beauty, fellowship and prosperity, and play her part in advancing the welfare
of the whole human race.
little lamb

Melbourne, Australia

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#10
Sep 5, 2013
 

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UNchained wrote:
<quoted text>
You are sidestepping.
Do you believe that a person who says, believes and does the following words is going to suffer or is from the devil?...
Before God and All mankind.
I pledge the love and loyalty of my heart
The wisdom and courage of my mind,
The strength and vigour of my body
in the service of my fellow citizens.
I promise to stand up for justice,
Brotherhood and Peace, to work diligently and creatively, to think generously and honestly,
So that Jamaica may, under God,
increase in beauty, fellowship and prosperity, and play her part in advancing the welfare
of the whole human race.
Not side stepping..in baptism..there is a pledge made to god to do his WILL
UNchained

Loudon, TN

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#11
Sep 5, 2013
 
Do anyone believe that a person who says, believes and does the following words is going to suffer or is from the devil?...

Before God and All mankind.
I pledge the love and loyalty of my heart
The wisdom and courage of my mind,
The strength and vigour of my body
in the service of my fellow citizens.

I promise to stand up for justice,
Brotherhood and Peace, to work diligently and creatively, to think generously and honestly,

So that Jamaica may, under God,
increase in beauty, fellowship and prosperity, and play her part in advancing the welfare
of the whole human race.
UNchained

Loudon, TN

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#12
Sep 5, 2013
 

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little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Not side stepping..in baptism..there is a pledge made to god to do his WILL
No matter how a person tries to justify or deny it,
if they were baptised by Jehovah's Witnesses they made a pledge to an organisation instead of to God.

Many will vehemently deny it but that doesn't change the facts.

Every JW I know who left the JW 's and became a born again Christian realised their baptism as a JW was wrong so they underwent Christian baptism.
elwood

Baton Rouge, LA

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#13
Sep 5, 2013
 
little lamb wrote:
Let your 'yes' mean 'yes' and your 'no' mean 'no', anything in excess of these is from the devil...
Proverbs 11:15
Whoever puts up security for a stranger will surely suffer, but whoever refuses to shake hands in pledge is safe.
Sounds like you should boycott everything the government does for you and go live in a tent in the middle of a desert somewhere. That way you won't participate or touch anything evil like roads, schools, police and fire protection etc. etc.

You could just be a self-righteous holy person all by yourself.

Don't worry, I'm sure you are protected under Australian law even though the Australian government is a servant of God and you lack any appreciation of that.
little lamb

Melbourne, Australia

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#14
Sep 5, 2013
 
elwood wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds like you should boycott everything the government does for you and go live in a tent in the middle of a desert somewhere. That way you won't participate or touch anything evil like roads, schools, police and fire protection etc. etc.
You could just be a self-righteous holy person all by yourself.
Don't worry, I'm sure you are protected under Australian law even though the Australian government is a servant of God and you lack any appreciation of that.
Ignorance is no excuse for bowing before men as a god..

" You were brought with a price stop becoming the slaves of men.'

Authorities are 'servants' for God to 'minister' to Gods people.

I appreciate the fact that God provides for us...they never created the earth and the resources in it..

if they are fulfilling their commission to God for our benefits then i praise Jehovah who makes sure we get the sort of 'authority' we need ..either to teach us a lesson or to bless us..

That is why I pray for ' gods kingdom to come'

by the way its your money in taxes that the authorities are managing things by...they didn't produce the cash themselves..you know..they reward themselves handsomely with your money for their services..don't worry about that.
little lamb

Melbourne, Australia

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#15
Sep 5, 2013
 

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By the way calling others 'self-righteous' usually comes from people whose heart is not right with god..

They are men pleasers scraping and bowing before men, hoping to get something from them

Proverbs 29 [26] Many are those seeking the face of a ruler , but the judgment of a man is from Jehovah."
Remnant143999

Rio Rancho, NM

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#16
Sep 6, 2013
 
Dr Shrink wrote:
I agree with JW stand
obedience to only god and His laws doesn't allow to pledge allgence to governments,churches, flags,militaries,or work for governments,or vote,
anyway
JW should also not pledge allegence and obedience to their leaders,
GOD RESIDE IN HEAVEN NOT WATCHTOWER SOCIETY BUNCH OF DECEIVED LEADERS, THAT WAY BAPTISM,AND LOYALITY,AND OBEDIENCE TO THEM IS SAME TRANSGRESSION-SIN
wages for sin is death.Rom 6;23
JW organizations is not God organization,and any shun,disfallowship or remover oposer from JW doesn't have any value,any effect or any removing someone from PERSONAL GODS GRACE EPH 2;8-9
from biblical point JW organization are same damned by GOD like whole satanic wicked christianity
if those leaders idiots believe that it is something different,
FOR SURE VERY SOON THEY WILL EXPERIENCE HORRIBLE DISAPOINTMENT-and will start weep and gnash teeth(if they have any left natural teeth)
I asked if an UN-BAPTISED child would be disfellowshipped fo reciting the US pledge of allegence? Where is it written in jw publications that one would be disfellowshiped for voting,or joining the US Armed Forces?
elwood

Baton Rouge, LA

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#17
Sep 6, 2013
 
little lamb wrote:
By the way calling others 'self-righteous' usually comes from people whose heart is not right with god..
They are men pleasers scraping and bowing before men, hoping to get something from them
Proverbs 29 [26] Many are those seeking the face of a ruler , but the judgment of a man is from Jehovah."
Is this "calling someone self-righteous" some kind of rule that you made up? Or is it another "clear bible command" like you call the blood transfusion ban?

Romans 13:
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.
4 For the one in authority is Godís servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are Godís servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are Godís servants, who give their full time to governing.
7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

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#18
Sep 6, 2013
 

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Matt9969 wrote:
They believe no one should 'pledge allegiance to anyone other than Jehovah god and the watchtower bible and tract society.(a person cannot pledge their allegiance to Jehovah without at first pledging allegiance to the watchtower).
Jehovah's Witnesses do not pledge allegiance to the Watchtower Society.

READERS if you want ACCURATE information about Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs and practices you need to go to Jehovah's Witnesses.

Listening to all the made up nonsense that the anti-JW fanatics invent won't tell you anything useful.

Jehovah's Witnesses:
http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/

Jehovah's Witnesses' publications:
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/

Jehovah's Witnesses' Bible teachings:
http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/

“Paradise Earth”

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#19
Sep 6, 2013
 
Remnant143999 wrote:
Why are jw's against standing for the pledge of allegence or saluting the US flag?
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102008085...
Remnant143999 wrote:
Would the wtbts disfellowship young unbaptised jw children for doing this?
No. Unbaptized people can not be disfellowshipped.

“Believe & Salvation is yours”

Since: Dec 12

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#20
Sep 6, 2013
 

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Remnant143999 wrote:
Why are jw's against standing for the pledge of allegence or saluting the US flag? Would the wtbts disfellowship young unbaptised jw children for doing this?
Do a little research on Passports. Fred Franz and Nathan Knorr, and most like a slew of others traveled overseas. On the passports there is the Pledge of Allegiance with signatures under it.

So why is it okay to sign a document pledging allegiance but verbally it is wrong?

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