Jehovah, Pagan Gods and Blood Sacrifi...

Jehovah, Pagan Gods and Blood Sacrifice........

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JJJ

Australia

#1 Jul 9, 2010
Even though people differ in religious belief in many cases they still have doctrines in common.

For example Jws share many of the same doctrinal beliefs as do Born Again Christians. So too did the Hebrew religion have doctrines in common with those nations surrounding them that we call pagan.

The god of the Hebrews, Jehovah and the gods of the ‘pagans’ were the same in one regard.

They all required blood sacrifice.

They each required that life be sacrificed to appease them. In the case of the Hebrews animal life, in the case of the other nations some took it further and beside animal sacrifice even practiced human sacrifice.

Why is though, that orthodox Jews today no longer practice blood sacrifice? We cannot say because Christ fulfilled the law……..because they don’t recognise Christ as the messiah.

So why has the Hebrew religion ceased practicing animal sacrifice?

They have stopped because man is more enlightened and we have come to our conclusion that blood sacrifice is barbaric, it is ignorant and ungodly.

In fact if we heard of any group practicing animal sacrifice today who do we immediately associate them with?

The OCCULT…….......the black arts, Satanic religion still practice anial sacrifice.

As a society of human beings we have become sufficiently conscious and enlightened enough to realise that blood sacrifice is ignorant, it is barbaric, it is savage and in mist lands even outlawed as criminal.

It is so wicked and evil that we without exception associate animal sacrifice today with the black arts of the occult.

And yet if Jehovah is your god, or any other version of the Old Testament god is your god………then you have to reconcile the fact that your god once required under the law that you all recognise as being of divine origin………… he requied, no commanded animal blood sacrifice.


Tens of thousands of animals were sacrificed at the temple inauguration alone to appease Jehovah…….and over the history of the Jews the count would have run into the millions of animals slaughtered to appease the god Jehovah.

You also have to accept……………that in this the OT god was no different to the gods of the nations surrounding the Jews of that time.

The only justification we can offer………. is that the Hebrews claimed that their god was the true god and the other gods false.

Since: Dec 07

Melbourne, Australia

#2 Jul 10, 2010
JJJ of Narellan,

You need to read archaeological books which show the relationship between the gods of Israel and those of their neighbours.

If you need some book titles, just ask.

The Israelites borrowed much from their neighbours, with the rural populace taking Asherah, the wife of the supreme god EL and handing her to their god YHWH as his wife. They worshiped YHWH and Asherah alongside one another.

The Israelites recognised the existence of numerous gods, and worshiped them (Jer 11:12-13). The Yahwists at Jerusalem simply said, "you must not have any other god before me", because they recognised that other gods existed.

Some Judahite monarchs sacrificed their own children; Manasseh stands so accused.

Regarding the slaughter at the temple, a lot of this was due to the requirement that all slaughtering for food was to be done there. With the noise and smell of animals, and the free flowing of blood, it was much like a butcher's shop. At that time, their diet was not as reliant on animal protein, of course.

The rural people had High Places where they conducted their slaughtering and sacrifices, but the priests and scribes sought absolute power, and they demanded the monarchs to destroy the High Places and to command all slaughtering and sacrifices to be conducted at their seat of power, Jerusalem. The monarchs who refused were called evil by the scribes; the monarchs who bowed to the Yahwists' demands were recorded as "good".

Today, we only read the records made by these scribes.

Doug of Victoria, Oz

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#3 Jul 10, 2010
The reason that the Jews no longer practice animal sacrifice is that Jehovah destroyed their temple and their priestly class making pure Mosaic worship forever impossible.

The Mosaic Law demanded sacrifices in the "place where Jehovah commanded". This was the temple bearing his name in the place of HIS choosing.

Currently the Arabs have a religious building in the "place of Jehovah's choosing" which is what all the problems in the middle east are being caused by.

That and the fact that most Jews are not particularly religious.

It is simply IMPOSSIBLE to live by the Mosaic Law since Jehovah's having his temple with all the genealogical records destroyed in 70CE.
twotoned

Rosedale, MD

#4 Jul 10, 2010
Gareth wrote:
The reason that the Jews no longer practice animal sacrifice is that Jehovah destroyed their temple and their priestly class making pure Mosaic worship forever impossible.
The Mosaic Law demanded sacrifices in the "place where Jehovah commanded". This was the temple bearing his name in the place of HIS choosing.
Currently the Arabs have a religious building in the "place of Jehovah's choosing" which is what all the problems in the middle east are being caused by.
That and the fact that most Jews are not particularly religious.
It is simply IMPOSSIBLE to live by the Mosaic Law since Jehovah's having his temple with all the genealogical records destroyed in 70CE.
Good morning Mr Un-Wise/Brilliant,

Do you have an deep understandings to share with us today or just half-truths?
If not, would you be your always modest self, and keep your mouth shut lest you be a fool, which in your case would be better off.
Thanks.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#5 Jul 10, 2010
Gareth wrote:
The reason that the Jews no longer practice animal sacrifice is that Jehovah destroyed their temple and their priestly class making pure Mosaic worship forever impossible.
The Mosaic Law demanded sacrifices in the "place where Jehovah commanded". This was the temple bearing his name in the place of HIS choosing.
Currently the Arabs have a religious building in the "place of Jehovah's choosing" which is what all the problems in the middle east are being caused by.
That and the fact that most Jews are not particularly religious.
It is simply IMPOSSIBLE to live by the Mosaic Law since Jehovah's having his temple with all the genealogical records destroyed in 70CE.
Hi there Wibbles and Garrets

Today in the 20th century it is the men behind the Watchtower Society that practice human sacrifices, not animals but their members, brothers, sisters and their children as martyr at their doctrinal alters as described in Jeremiah 8:8

8 How do ye say, We [are] wise, and the law of the LORD [is] with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he [it]; the pen of the scribes [is] in vain.

Furtermore the result of doctrines in the past as decsribed in Jeremiah 7:31

31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which [is] in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded [them] not, neither came it into my heart.

The cover of the May 22, 1994 Awake! magazine showing photos of 26 children, with the caption: "Youths Who Put God First." Inside the magazine glorifies Witness children who died supporting WTS policy.

The Watchtower Society have sacrificed thousands and other thousands as described in their Magazines, silently at hospitals around the world, at their doctrinal alters.....
meci bokoo

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#6 Jul 10, 2010
JJJ wrote:
Even though people differ in religious belief in many cases they still have doctrines in common.
For example Jws share many of the same doctrinal beliefs as do Born Again Christians. So too did the Hebrew religion have doctrines in common with those nations surrounding them that we call pagan.
The god of the Hebrews, Jehovah and the gods of the ‘pagans’ were the same in one regard.
They all required blood sacrifice.
They each required that life be sacrificed to appease them. In the case of the Hebrews animal life, in the case of the other nations some took it further and beside animal sacrifice even practiced human sacrifice.
Why is though, that orthodox Jews today no longer practice blood sacrifice? We cannot say because Christ fulfilled the law……..because they don’t recognise Christ as the messiah.
So why has the Hebrew religion ceased practicing animal sacrifice?
They have stopped because man is more enlightened and we have come to our conclusion that blood sacrifice is barbaric, it is ignorant and ungodly.
In fact if we heard of any group practicing animal sacrifice today who do we immediately associate them with?
The OCCULT…….......the black arts, Satanic religion still practice anial sacrifice.
As a society of human beings we have become sufficiently conscious and enlightened enough to realise that blood sacrifice is ignorant, it is barbaric, it is savage and in mist lands even outlawed as criminal.
It is so wicked and evil that we without exception associate animal sacrifice today with the black arts of the occult.
And yet if Jehovah is your god, or any other version of the Old Testament god is your god………then you have to reconcile the fact that your god once required under the law that you all recognise as being of divine origin………… he requied, no commanded animal blood sacrifice.
Tens of thousands of animals were sacrificed at the temple inauguration alone to appease Jehovah…….and over the history of the Jews the count would have run into the millions of animals slaughtered to appease the god Jehovah.
You also have to accept……………that in this the OT god was no different to the gods of the nations surrounding the Jews of that time.
The only justification we can offer………. is that the Hebrews claimed that their god was the true god and the other gods false.
are you saved mr jjj? if so you do not need to worry that you will burn in hell. you can believe anything as long as jesus says it.
there are many opinions in the churches if you are saved everything is ok, no burning in hell
meci bokoo

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#7 Jul 10, 2010
twotoned wrote:
<quoted text>
Good morning Mr Un-Wise/Brilliant,
Do you have an deep understandings to share with us today or just half-truths?
If not, would you be your always modest self, and keep your mouth shut lest you be a fool, which in your case would be better off.
Thanks.
ms twotoned are you saved? if so you will not be among those who are going to burn in hell forever.
meci bokoo

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#8 Jul 10, 2010
Veritas 69 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi there Wibbles and Garrets
Today in the 20th century it is the men behind the Watchtower Society that practice human sacrifices, not animals but their members, brothers, sisters and their children as martyr at their doctrinal alters as described in Jeremiah 8:8
8 How do ye say, We [are] wise, and the law of the LORD [is] with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he [it]; the pen of the scribes [is] in vain.
Furtermore the result of doctrines in the past as decsribed in Jeremiah 7:31
31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which [is] in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded [them] not, neither came it into my heart.
The cover of the May 22, 1994 Awake! magazine showing photos of 26 children, with the caption: "Youths Who Put God First." Inside the magazine glorifies Witness children who died supporting WTS policy.
The Watchtower Society have sacrificed thousands and other thousands as described in their Magazines, silently at hospitals around the world, at their doctrinal alters.....
veritas no need to worry if you are saved, you will not be like others who will go to hell
kjw47

Gansevoort, NY

#9 Jul 10, 2010
meci bokoo wrote:
<quoted text>
veritas no need to worry if you are saved, you will not be like others who will go to hell
Hi Mr. Booko== Anyone who understands Gods word knows that this is the bottom line of being saved-- Those who endure till the end will be saved.-- You are asking all these people if they are saved- they cannot possibly know until they endure till the end. If any man tells you that you are saved, they have no understanding of Gods truth. Gods word teaches that-- the heart is treacherous and desperate, who can know it-- We can all stand and say that we will endure till the end, but God knows better. There is a whole bible not just a few lines to apply. No one knows what they might have to endure to stand up for God. Can we say we can take what Job took and stand? The hearts and minds of men are sick. For example, those that were on earth after the apostles died- what if the romans had you and your family and said to you, we are going to throw your 3 young children in with the lions to be ripped apart as a public spectacle, but if you deny Christ we will spare them- What would our choice be??? No one knows what they might endure especially if they live to see Harmageddon. Because the world will raise up against Gods true people as the romans did.
meci bokoo

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#10 Jul 10, 2010
kjw47 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Mr. Booko== Anyone who understands Gods word knows that this is the bottom line of being saved-- Those who endure till the end will be saved.-- You are asking all these people if they are saved- they cannot possibly know until they endure till the end. If any man tells you that you are saved, they have no understanding of Gods truth. Gods word teaches that-- the heart is treacherous and desperate, who can know it-- We can all stand and say that we will endure till the end, but God knows better. There is a whole bible not just a few lines to apply. No one knows what they might have to endure to stand up for God. Can we say we can take what Job took and stand? The hearts and minds of men are sick. For example, those that were on earth after the apostles died- what if the romans had you and your family and said to you, we are going to throw your 3 young children in with the lions to be ripped apart as a public spectacle, but if you deny Christ we will spare them- What would our choice be??? No one knows what they might endure especially if they live to see Harmageddon. Because the world will raise up against Gods true people as the romans did.
mr kjw47 my sister says same as you. many here claim to be saved that is my thing wondering how do they know. i am beginning to think jws may be right. also they think jws are not saved if they join. the once saved always believe they are not going to burn in hell but say jws will burn in hell. that means the always saved will be with molesters that cannot help themselves someone said that if they do not deliberately sin same as adulterers and gay people. if they are once saved always it means that everything they say and do is forgiven no matter what. i see the bible says you must endure to the end i see jude says same thing but others say no, not true, and they know because they are saved and have the truth from jesus, my church people will be yelling at me.
twotoned

Rosedale, MD

#11 Jul 10, 2010
meci bokoo wrote:
<quoted text>
ms twotoned are you saved? if so you will not be among those who are going to burn in hell forever.
Have you blessed the Lord today? If not, why not?
kjw47

Gansevoort, NY

#12 Jul 10, 2010
meci bokoo wrote:
<quoted text>
mr kjw47 my sister says same as you. many here claim to be saved that is my thing wondering how do they know. i am beginning to think jws may be right. also they think jws are not saved if they join. the once saved always believe they are not going to burn in hell but say jws will burn in hell. that means the always saved will be with molesters that cannot help themselves someone said that if they do not deliberately sin same as adulterers and gay people. if they are once saved always it means that everything they say and do is forgiven no matter what. i see the bible says you must endure to the end i see jude says same thing but others say no, not true, and they know because they are saved and have the truth from jesus, my church people will be yelling at me.
If Gods word teaches one must endure till the end, it is exactly what Jesus would be teaching through his true religion as well. The only way a mortal can tell another that they are saved is if they can read the true heart ( they cannot ) or if they have seen the book of life ( they have not ) they have no right to tell another that they are saved. You are right it opens the door for them to practice sin and will here these words from Jesus- Matt 7:21-23- workers of iniquity are practicers of sin. every human has their own demons to battle everyday- some give in some do not. Its an ear tickleing thing to be told your saved. How easy that would be. Satan made it the hardest thing a human can possibly accomplish in this world. He showed us with Job.
meci bokoo

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#13 Jul 10, 2010
twotoned wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you blessed the Lord today? If not, why not?
if you are saved there is nothing you can do or say to ruin your salvation, if that were not so you could go to hell
JJJ

Australia

#14 Jul 11, 2010
Just as Jws can glaze over and ignore stuff when it conflicts with their beliefs...... so do we all when it comes religion.

While Doug Mason is right with the history and that the nation of Israel borrowed from their neighbours and yes I knew that they did eat the meat that was slaughtered

But no one has addressed the main point and its implication of my post which was:

That if yu believe in the OT god then you have to accept that just like the gods that christians refer to as 'pagan' your biblical god requird blood sacrifcie as well.

But mnore important.....is the fact that we as a society of human beings have come to the conclusion that animal sacrifice is barbaric and ignorant and in fact we associate it as evil so evil in fact that we associate with satanic religions.

So the implication of this is.....which everyone has 'chosen' to ignore....

That you worship a god that at one time required an act that we now hold to be evil, ignorant and barbaric.....

How can you reconcile that? How can humans decide that an act that their god once required as part of 'worship' is now wicked and ignorant and of no spiritual benefit.

Cognitive Dissonance.
JJJ

Australia

#15 Jul 11, 2010
Gareth wrote:
The reason that the Jews no longer practice animal sacrifice is that Jehovah destroyed their temple and their priestly class making pure Mosaic worship forever impossible.
The Mosaic Law demanded sacrifices in the "place where Jehovah commanded". This was the temple bearing his name in the place of HIS choosing.
Currently the Arabs have a religious building in the "place of Jehovah's choosing" which is what all the problems in the middle east are being caused by.
That and the fact that most Jews are not particularly religious.
It is simply IMPOSSIBLE to live by the Mosaic Law since Jehovah's having his temple with all the genealogical records destroyed in 70CE.
Gareth....why don't you run along and go and play with all the other pretend JWs.

You believe what you want...... but if the Jews somehow miraculosuly found all their records or that they rebuilt the temple..... you actually wish to contend that would rcommence the mass slaugher of animals again.

And why is it that we assoicate animal sacrifice with the occult?

You just can't accept the fact that your god jehovah....at least in regard to animal sacrifice is no better or different to the gods of those so called pagan nations.

A fact that you don't even attempt to address in your reply..... but instead yu actually reiterate the point that your god required the same sacrifice as the so called pagan nations did.
Gareth wrote:
The reason that the Jews no longer practice animal sacrifice is that Jehovah destroyed their temple and their priestly class making pure Mosaic worship forever impossible.
The Mosaic Law demanded sacrifices in the "place where Jehovah commanded". This was the temple bearing his name in the place of HIS choosing.Currently the Arabs have a religious building in the "place of Jehovah's choosing" 70CE.
What a peice of work you are.... How do you think that the Jewish nation would be viewed today if they rebuilt the temple and then as in Solomon's day sacrificed 20,000 head of cattle and 120,000 head of sheep so that their god.......the same one that you worship today could be satisified with the aroma of the 'fatty pieces'

“There is no fear in love”

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#16 Jul 11, 2010
Hi JJJ,

Another "very difficult to answer question". Let me try a shot.

Actually, God of the OT DID NOT enjoy animal sacrifice. It is shown by scriptures as "You must not boil a kid in its mother’s milk." (Exodus 23:19), "You must not muzzle a bull while it is threshing" (Deut 25:4), "Yet not one of [sparrow] will fall to the ground without YOUR Father’s [knowledge]." (Matt 10:29), and one more I forget exactly but something like you must love your domestic animals.

But what God did with building the temple, instituting the animal sacrifices, etc, was what we discussed before -- Leading Israelite to Christ, a "a shadow of the heavenly things" (Hebrews 8:5)

So animal sacrifice is explained in Hebrew 9:11-14 as Jesus "not with the blood of goats and of young bulls, but with his own blood, once for all time into the holy place and obtained an everlasting deliverance [for us]"

To conclude, animal sacrifices was NOT what God desired initially. But because of the need for Jesus' sacrifice, He instituted it so that Israelite (and us today) can appreciate the value of Jesus' sacrificial death.

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#17 Jul 12, 2010
JJJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Gareth....why don't you run along and go and play with all the other pretend JWs.
You believe what you want...... but if the Jews somehow miraculosuly found all their records or that they rebuilt the temple..... you actually wish to contend that would rcommence the mass slaugher of animals again.
And why is it that we assoicate animal sacrifice with the occult?
You just can't accept the fact that your god jehovah....at least in regard to animal sacrifice is no better or different to the gods of those so called pagan nations.
A fact that you don't even attempt to address in your reply..... but instead yu actually reiterate the point that your god required the same sacrifice as the so called pagan nations did.
<quoted text>
What a peice of work you are.... How do you think that the Jewish nation would be viewed today if they rebuilt the temple and then as in Solomon's day sacrificed 20,000 head of cattle and 120,000 head of sheep so that their god.......the same one that you worship today could be satisified with the aroma of the 'fatty pieces'
I fail to see how what pagan nations do affects what Jehovah does in any way.

So what if pagans sacrifice animals to their gods? What does that prove? Nothing whatsoever.
The coven stalks people

Mission Viejo, CA

#18 Jul 12, 2010
Gareth wrote:
The reason that the Jews no longer practice animal sacrifice is that Jehovah destroyed their temple and their priestly class making pure Mosaic worship forever impossible.
The Mosaic Law demanded sacrifices in the "place where Jehovah commanded". This was the temple bearing his name in the place of HIS choosing.
Currently the Arabs have a religious building in the "place of Jehovah's choosing" which is what all the problems in the middle east are being caused by.
That and the fact that most Jews are not particularly religious.
It is simply IMPOSSIBLE to live by the Mosaic Law since Jehovah's having his temple with all the genealogical records destroyed in 70CE.
You are up on the latest going on over in Jerusalem?
Guess not.
They have everything ready to go, for the new temple, down to the last detail. Even the priests have been taught once again how to perform animal sacrifices for the temple. They only lack the temple at this moment but watch and wait....they are planning ways to attain that also.
They have made even the robes and instruments for sacrifice.
And they are very determined to make sure it happen one way or another.
The coven stalks people

Mission Viejo, CA

#19 Jul 12, 2010
Gareth wrote:
<quoted text>
I fail to see how what pagan nations do affects what Jehovah does in any way.
So what if pagans sacrifice animals to their gods? What does that prove? Nothing whatsoever.
It will not be pagan nations doing this, it will be Israel and their priests that do it.
They ARE doing it!
The coven stalks people

Mission Viejo, CA

#20 Jul 12, 2010
Watch and see if there isn't a large problem over that temple mount in the very near future.
Do you not keep up to date with world events? They have been discussing this for a long time now. And they have been ready to go since last year.

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