Can Rebel Angels Repent?
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Since: May 10

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#1 May 2, 2013
If not-why?
Griffco

Plymouth, MA

#2 Aug 21, 2013
Angels who rebel, rebel against their creator.
Can any justification be warranted for their rebellion? The short answer is NO. So in light of your question, all angels are a creation of God and are perfectfully made, ie, they are created as perfect spiritual life forms. Can they Repent? YES, so the real question is Can their request be acceptable to God the creator? The answer is NO.
Reason being, sin and forgiveness must be redeemed by a higher authority, there is None. Jesus is a higher authority being the "Only Begotten Son" but he is not going to support a rebel angel who sinned against his God and Father.. John 20:17.
Soon all rebel angels along with their leader Satan will be chained and tossed into an abyss at the 2 nd coming of our Lord and Savoir, Jesus, the Christ of God the Father.

Since: Aug 12

Montréal, Canada

#3 Aug 21, 2013
Brainiac2 wrote:
If not-why?
It is quite possible that griffico is correct. However this subject is not simplistic. There are quite a few different categorizations of angel in heaven and there were no defaults within the highest class. All known casualties during the war were made up of a lesser type of angel designated to facilitate the communication between earth and the heavenly government. These were the ones directly in communication and under the leadership of Lucifer during his rebellion and this is why they were the most vulnerable.

Some of them repented and others did not but a 3rd of their number actually did default during the beginning.
Lannymac

Eunice, LA

#4 Aug 21, 2013
Repentence is pointless without redemption.

Unlike in the case of fallen man, fallen angels have no Redeemer, therefore their fallen state is forever.
Mental Health Counselor

Bloomingburg, NY

#5 Aug 21, 2013
Tidy up your immediate surroundings during the next two weeks, especially if you're starting to accumulate a lot of clutter. Get rid of anything you no longer need, or put it in a safe place until you can decide what to do with it. You might also take part in some neighborhood activities, especially if these involve solving a local problem.

Since: Aug 12

Montréal, Canada

#6 Aug 21, 2013
Lannymac wrote:
Repentence is pointless without redemption.
Unlike in the case of fallen man, fallen angels have no Redeemer, therefore their fallen state is forever.
Again, you may be entirely correct here. I'm not aware of any angel(fully spiritual) being that has fallen. Lucifer was a magnificent being, although his ascension had not yet climaxed to being completely spiritual he was well on his way and very advanced on the fact he had been given the sovereignty of a world such as ours. Notwithstanding that he did have a chance during the rebellious event that was extended by Gabriel - he didn't take it. His mind was completely twisted on his own doing that he couldn't bring himself back to a state of acceptance.

Lucifer was the closest being that defaulted that I'm aware of but even then he was not a fully spiritual entity having questioned the existence of the Father outright - Only fully spiritual beings can see the Father - thus he was not an angel.

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#7 Aug 21, 2013
Brainiac2 wrote:
If not-why?
ihv can rebel angels repent is an interesting subject..

would you accept any information from an angel claiming he is repenting?

what is amazing is that in the 30s jw rutherford did a lots of writing on demons and angels..

supporting a book written by some demon inspired woman the title of the book seola

later rutherford wrote his own book titled ANGELS..

in other of his writings he beleived that fallen angels {nephalim} may be repenting and was showing signs of repenting by bringing divine truths to the wt leaders...

and now jws who know nothing about their history is about to call me a liar without any investigation..

but to those who do will see i am right
will
apple

Singapore, Singapore

#8 Aug 22, 2013
if fallen angels can repent, the world is very peaceful.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#9 Aug 22, 2013
Any creature that has free will can repent, otherwise they wouldn't have free will would they?

But there's a difference between willfully sinning knowing all the details, and being mislead.

For example, if "the entire inhabited earth were mislead by Satan", does that make the entire earth wicked? No. It makes them deceived, not cognisant of all the facts. Mislead. Like lying to child about Santa it's not 100% the child's fault.

If an angel upon realising that they were being mislead by Satan repents, then they can turn around.

In the case of willful wickedness (something spurred on by the feeling of self importance to the detriment of others - a continual going against God's will), it is very unlikely that the being would turn around.

Such beings like Satan know full well their course of action, and they have become so consumed within THEMSELVES to even care about anyone else. They bring eventual destruction upon themselves.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#10 Aug 22, 2013
I'd like to give a brief view of the rebellion as described in the urantia book (a very bastardised version...but simple to grasp!):

The being you know as "Satan" contended that mankind were slaves to God. He said that they really didn't have any more glory when they went through the long drawn out process of divine training than when they first started out.

The key issue here is that he didn't start to feel this way (criticize God's plan) until he began to "self reflect". By self reflect, I don't mean contemplate his life (e.g. finding himself), I mean he become too important in his own mind. He thought more of himself than anything else (pride).

He desired to set his universe "free". To speed up the training program for mortals. To assert their own will (self government) instead of God's.

As we know, this "freedom" is false; like Jesus said, "anyone who sins (goes against God's will) becomes a slave". It's the very reason why Jesus kept stressing, "not MY will take place, but YOUR will".

For example, an advanced civilisation where law and order is abided by is more free than the more backwards civilisations where crime and "free will" is expressed to the detriment of others. Free will that is expressed with the disregard of others (against God's will) is false freedom (for the whole).

http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardi...

Going back to the angels subject (rebellion), as MakesTruthHisOwn said, there are different levels of celestial beings (archangels/cherubim/seraphim etc). They all have different roles depending upon their "ranking". Some are leaders, and others are more "hands on". According to the urantia book, the leaders were the ones who joined the devil; they CONSPIRED so therefore are more liable for their actions compared to the ones who were just following (being mislead). The ones who conspired did it out of selfish motives, whereas the ones who followed did it out of ignorance.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#11 Aug 22, 2013
Brainiac2 wrote:
If not-why?
The only reason we have an excuse for sinning is because we were not born perfect but we inherited imperfection from Adam. THAT is what the sacrifice of Jesus Christ covers, our inherited sin.

It doesn't cover willful sin.

Angels are created perfect, like Adam was created perfect. Therefore there is no excuse for their sinning.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#12 Aug 22, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
The only reason we have an excuse for sinning is because we were not born perfect but we inherited imperfection from Adam. THAT is what the sacrifice of Jesus Christ covers, our inherited sin.
It doesn't cover willful sin.
Angels are created perfect, like Adam was created perfect. Therefore there is no excuse for their sinning.
Sin is when you use your free will to go against the will of God, it's not some "disease" you catch.

Are you trying to say that after Jesus' death it was impossible to make the wrong choices in life?

There's no such difference between "accidental sin" and willful sin.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#13 Aug 22, 2013
Brother P wrote:
Sin is when you use your free will to go against the will of God, it's not some "disease" you catch.
I know you don't believe in the Bible. But for those that do:

*** Rom 5:12 Therefore, as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; and so death passed to all men, because all sinned.

We do have a choice about whether or not we obey God. HOWEVER, even if we choose to obey God, the sin we inherited in our flesh prevents us from being successful all the time:

*** Rom 7:17 So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwells in me.

*** Rom 7:18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwells no good thing. For desire is present with me, but to do that which is good is not.

*** Rom 7:19 For the good which I desire, I do not do; but the evil which I do not desire, that I practice.

*** Rom 7:20 But if what I do not desire, that I do, it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwells in me.

What Paul is saying is that as long as we are TRYING not to sin, if we fail then it is a result of the sin we inherited in our flesh. In that case we are not blamed because the blame lies with the sin in our flesh that we inherited from Adam.

However if we WILFULLY sin, then we are not forgiven:

*** Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more a sacrifice for sins,

Christ's sacrifice opens the way to rid us of this sin in our flesh that we inherited from Adam:

*** Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh;
Brother P wrote:
Are you trying to say that after Jesus' death it was impossible to make the wrong choices in life?
No. We will always be able to chose to sin.

But until we are made perfect we have no choice but to keep sinning even if we don't want to because our flesh is "broken" or "damaged" and contains 'sin' inherited from Adam.

After Jesus fixes our flesh, after the 1,000 year reign of Christ, then we won't sin if we don't want to. We will have the power to resist any temptation. All sins will be a result of us CHOOSING to sin.
Brother P wrote:
There's no such difference between "accidental sin" and willful sin.
Our flesh is "broken" in that we can not resist all temptation. Our thoughts are tended towards selfishness etc... in a way that would not happen if we had not inherited sin in our flesh from Adam.

So even if we are trying our best not to sin, our flesh fails us and we do not succeed all the time.

I would not call that "accidental sin" but I would call it "inevitable sin" that is a result of our broken flesh that only Jesus can fix.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#14 Aug 22, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
I know you don't believe in the Bible. But for those that do:
*** Rom 5:12 Therefore, as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; and so death passed to all men, because all sinned.
We do have a choice about whether or not we obey God. HOWEVER, even if we choose to obey God, the sin we inherited in our flesh prevents us from being successful all the time:
*** Rom 7:17 So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwells in me.
*** Rom 7:18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwells no good thing. For desire is present with me, but to do that which is good is not.
*** Rom 7:19 For the good which I desire, I do not do; but the evil which I do not desire, that I practice.
*** Rom 7:20 But if what I do not desire, that I do, it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwells in me.
What Paul is saying is that as long as we are TRYING not to sin, if we fail then it is a result of the sin we inherited in our flesh. In that case we are not blamed because the blame lies with the sin in our flesh that we inherited from Adam.
However if we WILFULLY sin, then we are not forgiven:
*** Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more a sacrifice for sins,
Christ's sacrifice opens the way to rid us of this sin in our flesh that we inherited from Adam:
*** Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh;
<quoted text>
No. We will always be able to chose to sin.
But until we are made perfect we have no choice but to keep sinning even if we don't want to because our flesh is "broken" or "damaged" and contains 'sin' inherited from Adam.
After Jesus fixes our flesh, after the 1,000 year reign of Christ, then we won't sin if we don't want to. We will have the power to resist any temptation. All sins will be a result of us CHOOSING to sin.
<quoted text>
Our flesh is "broken" in that we can not resist all temptation. Our thoughts are tended towards selfishness etc... in a way that would not happen if we had not inherited sin in our flesh from Adam.
So even if we are trying our best not to sin, our flesh fails us and we do not succeed all the time.
I would not call that "accidental sin" but I would call it "inevitable sin" that is a result of our broken flesh that only Jesus can fix.
I believe you've been mislead by some superstitious beliefs that have crept into Jesus' religion. A couple of questions for you;

What's the difference between sin and imperfection? How is sin inherited? Did animals sin, and thus die because of it? What is human perfection?

You say that Jesus fixed this "inherited sin" by his sacrifice right? So Jesus died and poof, like magic everyone's fine again? It takes no moral action on our part? I thought the bible said this:

"This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ." - JOHN 17:3.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#15 Aug 22, 2013
Brother P wrote:
What's the difference between sin and imperfection?
First the word "sin" is used to mean to different but related things.

1) "daily sins", things we do wrong during our daily lives
2) "inherited sin", the damage we inherited from Adam that causes us to do wrong.

So because our flesh is 'broken' or IMPERFECT, we are incapable of living without doing wrong.

So our inherited sin causes us to commit daily sins.

So "imperfection" means that something in our flesh is damaged that Adam and Eve were given. This damaged thing causes us to fail to behave according to our original design.
Brother P wrote:
How is sin inherited?
Probably genetically. All the Bible tells us is that it is passed on from one generation to the next.
Brother P wrote:
Did animals sin, and thus die because of it?
No. Animals were always meant to die. When Adam sinned his offspring became like the animals:

*** Ecc 3:10 I have seen the burden which God has given to the sons of men to be afflicted with.

...

*** Eccl 3:18 I said in my heart, "As for the sons of men, God tests them, so that they may see that they themselves are like animals.

*** Eccl 3:19 For that which happens to the sons of men happens to animals. Even one thing happens to them. As the one dies, so the other dies. Yes, they have all one breath; and man has no advantage over the animals: for all is vanity.

*** Eccl 3:20 All go to one place. All are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Brother P wrote:
What is human perfection?
That is how we were originally designed before Adam 'broke the mold' by sinning.
Brother P wrote:
You say that Jesus fixed this "inherited sin" by his sacrifice right?[/Quote]

No, I said that Jesus opened the way to fix this sin when he died.

*** Rom 8:3 ...[God] condemned sin in the flesh

[QUOTE who="Brother P"]
So Jesus died and poof, like magic everyone's fine again?
No.

The sin in our flesh doesn't actually get fixed until after the resurrection.

*** 1 Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption.
Brother P wrote:
It takes no moral action on our part? I thought the bible said this:
"This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ." - JOHN 17:3.
Jesus opened the way to fix our flesh from inherited sin by his sacrifice. But we can only qualify to benefit from that sacrifice by turning back to God through his son Jesus Christ.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#16 Aug 22, 2013
REFORMAT:
Brother P wrote:
What's the difference between sin and imperfection?
First the word "sin" is used to mean to different but related things.

1) "daily sins", things we do wrong during our daily lives
2) "inherited sin", the damage we inherited from Adam that causes us to do wrong.

So because our flesh is 'broken' or IMPERFECT, we are incapable of living without doing wrong.

So our inherited sin causes us to commit daily sins.

So "imperfection" means that something in our flesh is damaged that Adam and Eve were given. This damaged thing causes us to fail to behave according to our original design.
Brother P wrote:
How is sin inherited?
Probably genetically. All the Bible tells us is that it is passed on from one generation to the next.
Brother P wrote:
Did animals sin, and thus die because of it?
No. Animals were always meant to die. When Adam sinned his offspring became like the animals:

*** Ecc 3:10 I have seen the burden which God has given to the sons of men to be afflicted with.

...

*** Eccl 3:18 I said in my heart, "As for the sons of men, God tests them, so that they may see that they themselves are like animals.

*** Eccl 3:19 For that which happens to the sons of men happens to animals. Even one thing happens to them. As the one dies, so the other dies. Yes, they have all one breath; and man has no advantage over the animals: for all is vanity.

*** Eccl 3:20 All go to one place. All are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Brother P wrote:
What is human perfection?
That is how we were originally designed before Adam 'broke the mold'.
Brother P wrote:
You say that Jesus fixed this "inherited sin" by his sacrifice right?
No, I said that Jesus opened the way to fix this sin when he died.

*** Rom 8:3 ...[God] condemned sin in the flesh
Brother P wrote:
So Jesus died and poof, like magic everyone's fine again?
No.

The sin in our flesh doesn't actually get fixed until after the resurrection.

*** 1 Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption.
Brother P wrote:
It takes no moral action on our part? I thought the bible said this:
"This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ." - JOHN 17:3.
Jesus opened the way to fix our flesh from inherited sin by his sacrifice. But we can only qualify to benefit from that sacrifice by turning back to God through his son Jesus Christ.
jace

Bethesda, MD

#17 Aug 22, 2013
Is the answer God Can't or he Won't

Who wants a God that :"Can't" do whatever he choses to do?

some of the angel go to God and say We sorry and God says -
"ok this time"

what are you going to do. Question God??

why you let them slide God, they ain't got no redeemer. etc and he says

"Cause i can"

at that point- all one can say is

"OK"

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#18 Aug 22, 2013
anerin claimed;

After Jesus fixes our flesh, after the 1,000 year reign of Christ, then we won't sin if we don't want to. We will have the power to resist any temptation. All sins will be a result of us CHOOSING to sin.

ihv WOAH DUDE... ehen i presented evedence that a jw never has eternal life because atere the 1000 year thingy they could sin and be instantly killed..

we have this power you speak of right now if we are born again... we just dont always use it.. what makes you think you will be able to resist sin after the 1000 years?

folks the wt teaches that sin will still be around in the new heavens and earth.. and anerian just confirmed this
will

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#19 Aug 22, 2013
ihveit wrote:
ihv WOAH DUDE... ehen i presented evedence that a jw never has eternal life because atere the 1000 year thingy they could sin and be instantly killed..
Adam had eternal life before he sinned, then his eternal life was taken away from him.
ihveit wrote:
we have this power you speak of right now if we are born again... we just dont always use it.. what makes you think you will be able to resist sin after the 1000 years?
We will be perfect. Our flesh will no longer encourage us to keep sinning. And we will have been JUDGED for 1,000 years and TESTED at the end of the 1,000 years.
ihveit wrote:
folks the wt teaches that sin will still be around in the new heavens and earth.. and anerian just confirmed this
That's not true.

All I am saying is that we will ALWAYS have FREEDOM OF CHOICE.

God will never FORCE us to obey him.

Anyone who sins in the new heavens or earth will be destroyed.

Therefore the new heavens an the new earth will NOT tolerate sin.
jackie

Southampton, PA

#20 Aug 22, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
REFORMAT:
<quoted text>
First the word "sin" is used to mean to different but related things.
1) "daily sins", things we do wrong during our daily lives
2) "inherited sin", the damage we inherited from Adam that causes us to do wrong.
So because our flesh is 'broken' or IMPERFECT, we are incapable of living without doing wrong.
So our inherited sin causes us to commit daily sins.
So "imperfection" means that something in our flesh is damaged that Adam and Eve were given. This damaged thing causes us to fail to behave according to our original design.
<quoted text>
Probably genetically. All the Bible tells us is that it is passed on from one generation to the next.
<quoted text>

*Question*
*No. Animals were always meant to die. When Adam sinned his offspring became like the animals:
Aneirin, are you saying animals were always meant to die, before adam and eve sinned? Or are you saying because they sinned it effected the animals as well?
*** Ecc 3:10 I have seen the burden which God has given to the sons of men to be afflicted with.
...
*** Eccl 3:18 I said in my heart, "As for the sons of men, God tests them, so that they may see that they themselves are like animals.

*Question*
*** Eccl 3:19 For that which happens to the sons of men happens to animals. Even one thing happens to them. As the one dies, so the other dies. Yes, they have all one breath; and man has no advantage over the animals: for all is vanity.
So when man reaches perfection and gains everlasting life, Does the animals gain everlasting life too Aneirin?
*** Eccl 3:20 All go to one place. All are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.
<quoted text>
That is how we were originally designed before Adam 'broke the mold'.
<quoted text>
No, I said that Jesus opened the way to fix this sin when he died.
*** Rom 8:3 ...[God] condemned sin in the flesh
<quoted text>
No.
The sin in our flesh doesn't actually get fixed until after the resurrection.
*** 1 Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption.
<quoted text>
Jesus opened the way to fix our flesh from inherited sin by his sacrifice. But we can only qualify to benefit from that sacrifice by turning back to God through his son Jesus Christ.

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