The Urantia book
FutureMan

Australia

#42 Feb 2, 2012
Harpazo wrote:
FutureMan and others,
since you have no need of Jesus to redeem you by His death, you might want to give up thinking of yourself as a Christian.
Your future clearly lies with the cosmic christ of the NWO cult, which is about to unite mankind under its new age philosophy of ancient mysticism, leading to eternal death.
The choice is yours - I am just spelling it out a bit.
If you are into urantia, you might also want to check out scientology, a course in miracles, the secret, landmark forum, Wicca, free masonry and thousands of other cults, who are all leading directly to the god of this world.
Whether or not you would call me a Christian is irrelevant to me.

I believe in being a footstep follower of Christ and a worshiper of God, the Heavenly Father.

You cannot get much simpler than that.

When it comes to the "ransom sacrifice" well the jury is out on that one for me.

But logic itself tells me that God would not require a sacrifice to redeem mankind from sin, but what he does do is provide teachers to teach us how to be free from sin and to control our own base desires.

In this regards the spirit of God, assists us in doing this so that we can become much better persons.

To me Jesus personal self sacrifice gives me a reason to put my faith in his power to forgive me for my sins, that I might commit.

But I no longer feel that it is a matter of putting faith in his sacrifice, rather it is a matter of putting our faith in the Lord himself to forgive our sins.

It is not his sacrifice that gives us eternal life, it is the Lord himself who is the bread of life that gives us eternal life.

His self sacrifice of love is a very good reason for us to put our faith in him as God's saving hand.

The church doctrine over the last 1900 years has very much revolved around the sacredness of the cross (Jesus crucifixion) to the point of it becoming an idol and a snare to them.

That is how I see it anyway.

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#43 Feb 2, 2012
Furchizedek wrote:
<quoted text>
You know that because you read The Urantia Book?
skimmed. All that is needed.

In ancient China there was a mystic who said "He who knows does not say, he who says does not know"

2000 pages of what?

The TRUTH we need to realize is non-conceptual and can only be experienced directly. It is an experiential truth.

If you have tasted an orange you know what an orange tastes like. But you really can not convey this to another human being in any linear language.

Reading the Urantia book is like reading a book about the taste of oranges by someone who has never tasted an orange and denies the existence of oranges!

The historical Jesus was a way-pointer. The truth he shared with us is the truth of our existence. This can be found just as stated in Psalm 46:10 (New International Version)

"10 He says, "Be still, and know that I am God;
I will be exalted among the nations,
I will be exalted in the earth."

It's called meditation and it has allowed many of us to confirm the truth of our existence just as the historical Jesus urged us to do!

GOD is LOVE. WE are ALL ONE WITH GOD, even the unloving!

Since: Jan 12

Kingman, Arizona

#44 Feb 2, 2012
Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
<quoted text>
skimmed. All that is needed.
Really? Wow. I didn't know that. But I don't agree.

Doesn't what you're really saying boil down to this:

"Your religion is false because it's not what I already believe."?

Seriously, isn't that it?

Over the years I have found that rejection of The Urantia Book always boils down to:

"Your religion is false because it's not what I already believe."

All the Chinese sayings and stories about oranges used as objections simply mean:

"Your religion is false because it's not what I already believe."

This is called "cutting to the chase."

I think everyone who decides that The Urantia Book is not for them, for whatever reason they wish to apply, and especially if they haven't read it as you apparently haven't, should simply copy and paste this sentence and save everyone a lot of time:

"Your religion is false because it's not what I already believe."
In ancient China there was a mystic who said "He who knows does not say, he who says does not know"
2000 pages of what?
The TRUTH we need to realize is non-conceptual and can only be experienced directly. It is an experiential truth.
If you have tasted an orange you know what an orange tastes like. But you really can not convey this to another human being in any linear language.
Reading the Urantia book is like reading a book about the taste of oranges by someone who has never tasted an orange and denies the existence of oranges!
The historical Jesus was a way-pointer. The truth he shared with us is the truth of our existence. This can be found just as stated in Psalm 46:10 (New International Version)
"10 He says, "Be still, and know that I am God;
I will be exalted among the nations,
I will be exalted in the earth."
It's called meditation and it has allowed many of us to confirm the truth of our existence just as the historical Jesus urged us to do!
GOD is LOVE. WE are ALL ONE WITH GOD, even the unloving!

Since: Jan 12

Kingman, Arizona

#45 Feb 2, 2012
Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
<quoted text>
skimmed. All that is needed.
What untruths did you find when you skimmed it?

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#46 Feb 2, 2012
Furchizedek wrote:
<quoted text>
What untruths did you find when you skimmed it?
This was 40 years ago. First off, I did not find any untruths. An untruth is a lie. I do not call people liars without cause. I'm sorry if I gave that impression.

My impression was it was more of an amalgamation of previous occult teachings that teach of a fragmented universe with a distant god. An attempt to explain the unexplainable, an opinion I don't agree with perhaps, but certainly not a lie.

I'm sure there are some nice things in the Uranta book but words really are not what is needed in arriving at the truth of our existence.

And even if you could confirm any of it what would that do? What would it gain you? You would still be left with not knowing who you are.

The truth of our existence is apparent when we look but like the taste of an orange has to be experienced. In other words, you have to look. It's called meditation.

I still stand by Lao Tsu and I am sure you will too eventually after you give it much thought.

The Tao Te Ching, written by the Lao Tsu that you scorn, has much wisdom in only a few short pages that will resonate with what is deep within you.

It is not wise to condemn what you know nothing about.

peace

Since: Jan 12

Kingman, Arizona

#47 Feb 2, 2012
Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
<quoted text>
This was 40 years ago.
OK, listen a minute, Grandpa. We're both probably making some bad ASSumptions. First of all, I probably mistook you for a Jehovah's Witness or bible person of some sort, because I didn't really know the territory here. And you have made some bad assumptions below as well.

I got my first Urantia Book in 1959 when I was 16. Do the math. If you are open minded you need to look at this book again. You "skimmed" it 40 years ago.
First off, I did not find any untruths. An untruth is a lie. I do not call people liars without cause. I'm sorry if I gave that impression.
My impression was it was more of an amalgamation of previous occult teachings that teach of a fragmented universe with a distant god. An attempt to explain the unexplainable, an opinion I don't agree with perhaps, but certainly not a lie.
I would say your impression was wrong. I have no idea what you mean by a "fragmented universe." The Universe is a well oiled unified machine. Yes, God is distant, but He is also nearby, "within" us actually, as Jesus said in Luke 17:21: "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

The Urantia Book has five full "Papers" on the fragment of God within every human being. This isn't some vague spirit wafting through space either, it's a definite focalization.
'm sure there are some nice things in the Uranta book but words really are not what is needed in arriving at the truth of our existence.
That's a bit too Zen for me. Words are how we communicate in large part, such as we're trying to do here.
And even if you could confirm any of it what would that do? What would it gain you? You would still be left with not knowing who you are.
I have not said I can confirm anything. I don't understand your "knowing who you are" statement. Don't you know who you are yet?
The truth of our existence is apparent when we look but like the taste of an orange has to be experienced. In other words, you have to look. It's called meditation.
?
I still stand by Lao Tsu and I am sure you will too eventually after you give it much thought.
?
The Tao Te Ching, written by the Lao Tsu that you scorn,
Grandpa, please, give it a rest. I have never "scorned" Lao Tsu. "A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step."
has much wisdom in only a few short pages that will resonate with what is deep within you.
It is not wise to condemn what you know nothing about.
peace
I have never condemned what I know nothing about.

Whew!

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#48 Feb 2, 2012
Furchizedek wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, listen a minute, Grandpa. We're both probably making some bad ASSumptions. First of all, I probably mistook you for a Jehovah's Witness or bible person of some sort, because I didn't really know the territory here. And you have made some bad assumptions below as well.
I got my first Urantia Book in 1959 when I was 16. Do the math. If you are open minded you need to look at this book again. You "skimmed" it 40 years ago.
<quoted text>
I would say your impression was wrong. I have no idea what you mean by a "fragmented universe." The Universe is a well oiled unified machine. Yes, God is distant, but He is also nearby, "within" us actually, as Jesus said in Luke 17:21: "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."
The Urantia Book has five full "Papers" on the fragment of God within every human being. This isn't some vague spirit wafting through space either, it's a definite focalization.
<quoted text>
That's a bit too Zen for me. Words are how we communicate in large part, such as we're trying to do here.
<quoted text>
I have not said I can confirm anything. I don't understand your "knowing who you are" statement. Don't you know who you are yet?
<quoted text>
?
<quoted text>
?
<quoted text>
Grandpa, please, give it a rest. I have never "scorned" Lao Tsu. "A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step."
<quoted text>
I have never condemned what I know nothing about.
Whew!
What am I to think when you say "All the Chinese sayings and stories about oranges used as objections simply mean:

"Your religion is false because it's not what I already believe."

This is called "cutting to the chase." in response to my post?

And the orange analogy is my own but I am sure that there are other similar analogies to help people see what science is just now beginning to discover, and mystics have been saying for centuries, the whole Cosmos is one organic whole.

And it can not be understood by examining it part by part. Using the part by part, mechanical universe approach that you recommend, 2000 pages is barely getting started in a lifetime exercise of futility!

linear knowledge imparted by others is not the experiential knowledge that interests me. I prefer meditation on what is to your "cut to the chase" that apparently has had you running around in circles since 1959.

Alright, I'll do as you suggest and give it a rest and you Have a nice life pursuing your dream.
Harpazo

Auckland, New Zealand

#49 Feb 4, 2012
Furchizedek,

look, I totally share your disdain for the Churches and what they have done to Christianity, and the message of the Gospel,

but you have to keep in mind that Jesus was exclusively sent to preach to ethnic Jews, and to prepare them for the promised Holy Spirit which would teach them all things for which they weren't ready yet.(Math.15:24)

Also, Jesus Himself said that He came "to give His soul a ransom in exchange for many," as recorded in Matthew 20 verse 28.

Even His worst enemy - the high priest Caiaphas - was made to testified by the Holy Spirit against his own inclination and conviction, that Jesus was "to die in behalf of the people." (Jno 18:14)

So you owe it to yourself to investigate a bit past the shallow objections of those who merely want to throw out the baby with the bath water, if you really care about separating fact from fiction.

True, the "SORT of death” Jesus says He was destined to die eludes most people, especially those for whose sake it manifestly proved to be in vain.(Jno 12:33; 18:32)

But you don't have to be one of them - the choice is totally yours.
Harpazo

Auckland, New Zealand

#50 Feb 4, 2012
FutureMan,

yes, it is of no consequence to you that I don't view you as a Christian, but you will find that this designation refers exclusively to those who believe in the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth,

unless, of course, you want to convince seven billion people that they have got it wrong, along with all books ever published on the topic.

And besides, what about God's definition of the term, and whom He would acknowledge as a Christian - shouldn't that be of utmost concern to us?

You seem pretty self-absorbed in your philosophy and interpretation of things, since I can scarcely hold you as being ignorant of the basics of Christianity, what with your JW background and professed interest in the Bible.

Speaking of which, have you never read the Hebrew Scriptures with their detailed descriptions of various blood sacrifices, and how "all things are cleansed with blood according to the Law, and unless blood is poured out NO FORGIVENESS takes place?" (Heb.9:22)

You either were born without sin or have not yet discovered that you are a sinner - or else are still in your sin and will perish in it, as just retribution for rejecting God's sacrifice of His Son on your behalf.

If you want to get saved YOUR way, you have to go to the god of this world, who also likes to do things HIS way.

Even the Almighty cannot just sweep 6000 years of unjust suffering and death under the carpet, and wipe His hands of the moral culpability attaching to Him as the God of righteousness which He professes to be.

By rejecting the blood of Christ you are declaring God to be unrighteous, while justifying yourself.

The sacrificial death of Christ took place for the purpose of declaring God righteous and saving us in the process.

When Peter tried to dissuade Jesus from His sacrifice, He plainly told him from whom his thinking originated, and I am hereby merely suggesting the same to you.

Only those who believe in the redeeming blood of Jesus will escape the mark of the beast and be save from the wrath of God to come.

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#51 Feb 4, 2012
Harpazo wrote:
Furchizedek,
look, I totally share your disdain for the Churches and what they have done to Christianity, and the message of the Gospel,
but you have to keep in mind that Jesus was exclusively sent to preach to ethnic Jews, and to prepare them for the promised Holy Spirit which would teach them all things for which they weren't ready yet.(Math.15:24)
Also, Jesus Himself said that He came "to give His soul a ransom in exchange for many," as recorded in Matthew 20 verse 28.
Even His worst enemy - the high priest Caiaphas - was made to testified by the Holy Spirit against his own inclination and conviction, that Jesus was "to die in behalf of the people." (Jno 18:14)
So you owe it to yourself to investigate a bit past the shallow objections of those who merely want to throw out the baby with the bath water, if you really care about separating fact from fiction.
True, the "SORT of death” Jesus says He was destined to die eludes most people, especially those for whose sake it manifestly proved to be in vain.(Jno 12:33; 18:32)
But you don't have to be one of them - the choice is totally yours.
It is good that you wish to see Furchizedek examine Christianity. But the churches you mention go back further than you realize in their hoax of Christianity.

In fact it started when the Romans murdered Jesus, blamed it on the Jews, and replaced his simple egalitarian truth with the patriarchal hierarchical form of Christianity practiced by most people today.

This form of Christianity evolved in an attempt to create a political tool of the Roman empire to manipulate the masses with fear and hate. The hate of course being directed at the Jews who had the key knowledge of our existence upon which the historical Jesus based his ministry.

It would be a comedy of errors if not for the many who accepted the OMNIPRESENT GOD of Israel and objected to the barbaric triune god forced on the populace by the Romans, that were murdered to protect this hoax.

Historians estimate that as many as nine million people were murdered to protect this tool of oppression, to prevent people from realizing the truth of their existence that the historical Jesus pointed us towards when he said in Luke 17:21 (King James Version)

"21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

This is the truth that sets you free that is denied by all patriarchal hierarchical churches that have fallen for the Roman hoax of Christianity and built their foundations on it.

There is no provision in Judaism for a god-man to be sacrificed for our sins. This barbaric teaching is based on the many pagan myths such as Mithra and Horus and is the basis of the false Jesus created by the Romans as part of their triune god.

We all need to get informed as to the nature of the Roman hoax of Christianity and it's many derivatives such as the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses and get involved in restoring true Christianity based on the OMNIPRESENT GOD of Israel to humanity that is even now being found to be in accord with the latest scientific findings concerning the nature of the Cosmos!

GOD is LOVE. WE are ALL ONE WITH GOD, even the unloving!
FutureMan

Brisbane, Australia

#52 Feb 4, 2012
Harpazo wrote:
FutureMan,
yes, it is of no consequence to you that I don't view you as a Christian, but you will find that this designation refers exclusively to those who believe in the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth,
unless, of course, you want to convince seven billion people that they have got it wrong, along with all books ever published on the topic.
And besides, what about God's definition of the term, and whom He would acknowledge as a Christian - shouldn't that be of utmost concern to us?
You seem pretty self-absorbed in your philosophy and interpretation of things, since I can scarcely hold you as being ignorant of the basics of Christianity, what with your JW background and professed interest in the Bible.
Speaking of which, have you never read the Hebrew Scriptures with their detailed descriptions of various blood sacrifices, and how "all things are cleansed with blood according to the Law, and unless blood is poured out NO FORGIVENESS takes place?" (Heb.9:22)
You either were born without sin or have not yet discovered that you are a sinner - or else are still in your sin and will perish in it, as just retribution for rejecting God's sacrifice of His Son on your behalf.
If you want to get saved YOUR way, you have to go to the god of this world, who also likes to do things HIS way.
Even the Almighty cannot just sweep 6000 years of unjust suffering and death under the carpet, and wipe His hands of the moral culpability attaching to Him as the God of righteousness which He professes to be.
By rejecting the blood of Christ you are declaring God to be unrighteous, while justifying yourself.
The sacrificial death of Christ took place for the purpose of declaring God righteous and saving us in the process.
When Peter tried to dissuade Jesus from His sacrifice, He plainly told him from whom his thinking originated, and I am hereby merely suggesting the same to you.
Only those who believe in the redeeming blood of Jesus will escape the mark of the beast and be save from the wrath of God to come.
Yet Jesus wholeheartedly and freely forgave sins of various ones here on earth during his ministry without the benefits of a blood sacrifice.

Please explain that to me?

And yes a vast majority of Christian believers could really be wrong about the term "ransom sacrifice".

Just because the majority believe in something does not make it correct.

Most of the people in Christendom believed the world to be flat, did that make them right?

Our understanding of God and Jesus was being molded by the Jewish scribes in the Old Testament and then the Jewish Christians in the New Testament followed by Christendom's involvement with the translation of the scripture and compiling of the Bible.

But being molded this way does not necessarily mean that we are molded in the way that Jesus prescribed while he was living on the earth.

If I remember correctly the Urantia book indicates that Christianity somewhat deviated from the teachings of Jesus and of the "Kingdom of God".

Christianity began to revolve around the doctrine of the "ransom sacrifice" other than the teachings of the Kingdom.
Harpazo

Auckland, New Zealand

#53 Feb 6, 2012
FutureMan,

yes, all sorts of things could be possible, but if God cannot ensure that His Word the Bible conveys exactly what He wants us to know, how, then, can he run the universe with all them black holes and stuff?

How likely is it that He is so pathetically incompetent as to let man mess up His written record, to the point that we are unable to understand the message He intended?

Because one's faith is basically a reflection of what one wants to be true, but in its fulfilment is totally dependent on its coinciding with the divinely ordained reality - which is yet to be revealed -

it better be informed by the promises of God and closely correlated to an extrapolation of His purposes as perceived through a study of His dealings with man, and as documented in His written Word.

It is entirely possible that the sun will not rise tomorrow - just as it is entirely possible that the 'shadows' of the Mosaic sacrifices had no meaning or purpose, besides being decorative.

I am acutely interested in what makes people eagerly accept the impossible, while out rightly rejecting the most obvious.

Perhaps you could have a purpose in enlightening me about this weird, but not altogether uncommon phenomenon.

By the way, the sins Jesus forgave while in the flesh - and before being glorified at the right Hand of the Father - did not stop the people having committed them from subsequently dying and paying for their sins with their own blood.

But their resurrection - just as survival of the NWO for those alive today - does depend on Christ's sacrifice.

You really need to understand the fundamental difference between the mortal Christ of history and His subsequent elevation as supreme Immortal Being with the authority of the Eternal Father.

For this you need the Holy Spirit, which the Father has promised to all those obeying Him as Ruler.

The Jesus of history is precisely that - history.

You have to accept the glorified Jesus, sitting at the Right Hand of God, as your Saviour and Lord, in order to be saved.

Otherwise you will fall for the messiah who is about to abolish Christianity, and who comes in his own name.

You are just asking to be deceived, and, what is worse, your wish will be granted.
Harpazo

Auckland, New Zealand

#54 Feb 6, 2012
Grandpasmurf952,

I think the hoax might be slightly different, in that the 'born agains' believe the Khazars to be the chosen master race, who are about to usher in their promised dystopian paradise,

where truth denial becomes the new global state religion and faith in the Risen Christ will be outlawed.

This turn of events will have the majority of phony Christians - and the world population at large - follow the cosmic yahudoid prince with admiration, as he unites the world under the iron rule of the truth hating, supremacist master race.

The Nazis were just a benign precursor of the Omni-fascist tyranny, which is about to engulf the entire inhabited earth, to put a test upon those dwelling on the earth.

There are only two sides, those who are laughing first, and those who will have the everlasting laugh, when all eliminators will themselves be eliminated.

Only then will the true God dwell in all people, even those we may not have thought worthy of this supreme privilege.

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#55 Feb 6, 2012
Harpazo wrote:
Grandpasmurf952,
I think the hoax might be slightly different, in that the 'born agains' believe the Khazars to be the chosen master race, who are about to usher in their promised dystopian paradise,
where truth denial becomes the new global state religion and faith in the Risen Christ will be outlawed.
This turn of events will have the majority of phony Christians - and the world population at large - follow the cosmic yahudoid prince with admiration, as he unites the world under the iron rule of the truth hating, supremacist master race.
The Nazis were just a benign precursor of the Omni-fascist tyranny, which is about to engulf the entire inhabited earth, to put a test upon those dwelling on the earth.
There are only two sides, those who are laughing first, and those who will have the everlasting laugh, when all eliminators will themselves be eliminated.
Only then will the true God dwell in all people, even those we may not have thought worthy of this supreme privilege.
Well, I respectively disagree with you on several points. While I recognize the danger of predatory alliances that have evolved over the centuries such as the patriarchal religious military industrial complex here on earth and no doubt with other evolving races as well, I see all of us taking a quantum leap in consciousness as we began to understand our relationship with the OMNIPRESENT GOD. We are all ONE WITH GOD already. We just need to wake up to who we already are on a subconscious level.

Actually those who would keep humanity divided are the real danger and they exist within all of the religions on the planet currently that have adopted the Roman hoax of Christianity that denies the OMNIPRESENT GOD that science is just beginning to confirm as real as we probe deeper into the nature of the Cosmos.

There are no superior races. The ultimate nature of the greater Cosmos is egalitarian. Each of us is an image of GOD as stated in Genesis. We are as children who have not yet learned how to walk. But we are growing as children should.

This can be confirmed by meditation. Once we know who we are we can start to build the world we want to live in together as the human race, in freedom, in LOVE.

GOD is LOVE. WE are ALL ONE WITH GOD, even the unloving!
Harpazo

Auckland, New Zealand

#56 Feb 6, 2012
Grandpasmurf952,

perhaps I should go back a few steps, to allow my conclusions to be better understood.

Basically, if you create life in form of a self-conscious being, endowed with the capacity and liberty for exercising free will,

you have thereby already prejudiced the person's choice of not ever wanting to be - or at least, not wanting to have you as its Maker and Superior.

Hence, patriarchy results naturally as a consequence of originating intelligent life in your image - the taking of responsibility for what you have brought into being.

Of course, this position of inherent superiority is open to abuse, and needs to be handled in a moral, righteous way, in order to be of benefit to the created, and reflect well on the Creator.

But there is nothing intrinsically wrong with patriarchy - in fact, it is the only model for protecting the vulnerable from exploitation by those wanting to usurp the position of Patriarch over others for their own selfish ends.

Seeing there are these two opposing philosophies in the world, namely, the one believing in the righteousness of God through the death of Christ - and His subsequent right to exclusive allegiance of His creatures -

versus the concept of moral independence from Him, it follows that all creatures have to freely chose whose side they want to support, and which of the two God's they want to become 'one' with.

By default, and because of Adam's sin, all men are naturally 'one' with Satan's rebellion against God.

But, they have a choice to come over to the other side and accept Christ Jesus as their Saviour and Lord.

Jesus Himself bore witness, saying: "Do not think I came to bring peace on the earth, but rather division!"

In a world raised on lies, truth is naturally controversial and widely disbelieved.

That is why truth is so divisive, as it separates the liars from those who are true.

Only once this vital task has been accomplished, immediately after the end of the NWO,
can those who survive be living in peace and harmony here on earth.

All things can be taught to people who accept the God of Truth - but this all important decision itself, is totally independent of genetic disposition or intellectual acuity, because it is the sovereign will of creature.

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#57 Feb 6, 2012
Harpazo wrote:
Grandpasmurf952,
perhaps I should go back a few steps, to allow my conclusions to be better understood.
Basically, if you create life in form of a self-conscious being, endowed with the capacity and liberty for exercising free will,
you have thereby already prejudiced the person's choice of not ever wanting to be - or at least, not wanting to have you as its Maker and Superior.
Hence, patriarchy results naturally as a consequence of originating intelligent life in your image - the taking of responsibility for what you have brought into being.
Of course, this position of inherent superiority is open to abuse, and needs to be handled in a moral, righteous way, in order to be of benefit to the created, and reflect well on the Creator.
But there is nothing intrinsically wrong with patriarchy - in fact, it is the only model for protecting the vulnerable from exploitation by those wanting to usurp the position of Patriarch over others for their own selfish ends.
Seeing there are these two opposing philosophies in the world, namely, the one believing in the righteousness of God through the death of Christ - and His subsequent right to exclusive allegiance of His creatures -
versus the concept of moral independence from Him, it follows that all creatures have to freely chose whose side they want to support, and which of the two God's they want to become 'one' with.
By default, and because of Adam's sin, all men are naturally 'one' with Satan's rebellion against God.
But, they have a choice to come over to the other side and accept Christ Jesus as their Saviour and Lord.
Jesus Himself bore witness, saying: "Do not think I came to bring peace on the earth, but rather division!"
In a world raised on lies, truth is naturally controversial and widely disbelieved.
That is why truth is so divisive, as it separates the liars from those who are true.
Only once this vital task has been accomplished, immediately after the end of the NWO,
can those who survive be living in peace and harmony here on earth.
All things can be taught to people who accept the God of Truth - but this all important decision itself, is totally independent of genetic disposition or intellectual acuity, because it is the sovereign will of creature.
I understand you, but I respectively don't agree. The nature of the universe is of an egalitarian nature. It is comprised of an infinite number of infinitesimal entities such as yourself and myself, in male and female, as stated in the first book of Genesis in the Hebrew Scriptures.

But we are only male and female in respect to our antipodal counterpart in the great circle of life that co-creates this and an infinite number of other universes. In respect to each other in general we are androgynous with the exception of our antipodal point of which we are a true sexual partner.

I know this to be true based on my own mystical experiences and personal research.

But, like it is for all of us, ultimately, the proof of the statement made by the historical Jesus, "The kingdom of GOD is within you", is something you have to confirm in yourself. I can say it's there but it means nothing until you look for yourself.

Than perhaps you can begin to study the diverse beauty of what is with what is called the true "eye of discernment" and truly marvel at the greater picture of reality that contains all of this and more that you will begin to see.

The pearl of great price. A holographic mirror you could say, of infinite complexity, that reflects all that was, all that is, and all that will ever be, to the eye of the beholder. No book can ever contain this. Plus it's free!

Have a nice evening!
FutureMan

Brisbane, Australia

#58 Feb 6, 2012
Harpazo wrote:
FutureMan,
yes, all sorts of things could be possible, but if God cannot ensure that His Word the Bible conveys exactly what He wants us to know, how, then, can he run the universe with all them black holes and stuff?
How likely is it that He is so pathetically incompetent as to let man mess up His written record, to the point that we are unable to understand the message He intended?
Because one's faith is basically a reflection of what one wants to be true, but in its fulfilment is totally dependent on its coinciding with the divinely ordained reality - which is yet to be revealed -
it better be informed by the promises of God and closely correlated to an extrapolation of His purposes as perceived through a study of His dealings with man, and as documented in His written Word.
It is entirely possible that the sun will not rise tomorrow - just as it is entirely possible that the 'shadows' of the Mosaic sacrifices had no meaning or purpose, besides being decorative.
I am acutely interested in what makes people eagerly accept the impossible, while out rightly rejecting the most obvious.
Perhaps you could have a purpose in enlightening me about this weird, but not altogether uncommon phenomenon.
By the way, the sins Jesus forgave while in the flesh - and before being glorified at the right Hand of the Father - did not stop the people having committed them from subsequently dying and paying for their sins with their own blood.
But their resurrection - just as survival of the NWO for those alive today - does depend on Christ's sacrifice.
You really need to understand the fundamental difference between the mortal Christ of history and His subsequent elevation as supreme Immortal Being with the authority of the Eternal Father.
For this you need the Holy Spirit, which the Father has promised to all those obeying Him as Ruler.
The Jesus of history is precisely that - history.
You have to accept the glorified Jesus, sitting at the Right Hand of God, as your Saviour and Lord, in order to be saved.
Otherwise you will fall for the messiah who is about to abolish Christianity, and who comes in his own name.
You are just asking to be deceived, and, what is worse, your wish will be granted.
I am aware of all the conspiracy theories as related to the New World Order. UFO deception etc, but to me the greatest deception is that many Christians now believe that they have the whole truth as related to the scriptures of the Bible.

I believe that this itself is a delusion for Christians as they will not accept further Revelations because of this and so therefore go on believe a lie.

As for faith in the Christ, well that is exactly what we should have, is faith in Jesus himself as God's saving hand and in his teachings, and not faith in a sacrifice.

I believe that Jesus sacrifice is a fitting symbol for his own unselfish love and that of God's love for all of us humans and so it does have great meaning for all true Christians today.

We can put faith in Jesus because of his sacrifice which he had made in our behalf, so that we all can be saved from our own individual sins, if at all possible.

As for our resurrection, I believe that it is really dependent on God's grace or undeserved kindness and how we relate to Jesus as God's life saving hand and also how we live our own lives in harmony with God's will and purposes right now here on this earth. Of course this involves repentance from our past sins and turning around and doing the right thing as Jesus taught while he was here on the earth.
Harpazo

Auckland, New Zealand

#59 Feb 7, 2012
FutureMan,

you have to understand that the love of both the Father and the Son - which they have for us - is based on RIGHTEOUSNESS,

because otherwise they could just have ignored our sin, and saved themselves the tremendous pain and grief of Christ's sacrifice.

But this understanding can only be acquired by faith, which you seem to be losing fast.

Christ was the full and final revelation of God's Truth, and you, by your continued searching for alternatives, give evidence that you have not entered into His rest.

Don't worry about what other Christians have got wrong, it is your soul that is on the line.

If God subjected Himself to so much suffering for the sake of righteousness, do you really think He would love you more, by invalidating it in your case, as an exception?

You obviously don’t know the meaning of love, God’s love, and will be easily deceived by what passes itself of as it.
Harpazo

Auckland, New Zealand

#60 Feb 7, 2012
Grandpasmurf952,

I tend to believe in ultimate causes - as well as in cause and effect - rather than 'circles of life' and an 'egalitarian universe,'

because nothing comes from nothing, so that any originator is forever deserving of primacy over what he has made.

Of course primacy, by itself, is not a very endearing quality, although it deserves some respect, so that we at least owe it to our Maker to listen to what He has to say about Himself.

If He loves me just because I agree with Him, He would be no better than me in worshipping Him because it benefits me.

In other words, if my relationship with God were to be based simply on symbiosis, I might as well not bother.

Just because something is in the nature of things does not mean that it satisfies the thirst for meaning, which uniquely distinguishes us from animals.

If that is the sort of universe people want to live in, I wish them good luck in finding it, because this particular cosmos was created for a definite purpose, and by the God of purpose - even if that happens to elude most people.

...just thinking out loud here.
FutureMan

Brisbane, Australia

#61 Feb 7, 2012
Harpazo wrote:
FutureMan,
you have to understand that the love of both the Father and the Son - which they have for us - is based on RIGHTEOUSNESS,
because otherwise they could just have ignored our sin, and saved themselves the tremendous pain and grief of Christ's sacrifice.
But this understanding can only be acquired by faith, which you seem to be losing fast.
Christ was the full and final revelation of God's Truth, and you, by your continued searching for alternatives, give evidence that you have not entered into His rest.
Don't worry about what other Christians have got wrong, it is your soul that is on the line.
If God subjected Himself to so much suffering for the sake of righteousness, do you really think He would love you more, by invalidating it in your case, as an exception?
You obviously don’t know the meaning of love, God’s love, and will be easily deceived by what passes itself of as it.
I do not think that anyone here or in this world can really fathom the depth of God's love.

But we have an indication of God's love through Jesus himself and his teachings, particularly that of the Kingdom.

As for my faith in God, and Jesus, well thankfully God is the best one to decide how much faith I have and not any imperfect human, such as yourself.

Yes I myself have a lot to learn about love as do we all.

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