The "2 Witness" rule exposed
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UNchained

Louisville, TN

#1 Dec 14, 2012
It's really very simple to expose the fallacy and amentia of the Watchtower Society's "2 Witness" rule when it comes to sexual abuse.

It can be effectively accomplished with just one question...

Do you know of any pedophile that would sexually abuse a child by requesting 2 witnesses to be present when they commited their crime?
UNchained

Louisville, TN

#2 Dec 15, 2012
JW's:

Do you know of any pedophile that would sexually abuse a child by requesting 2 witnesses to be present while they commit their crime?

“Church Dogma - Coprolite.”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#3 Dec 15, 2012
Bad, Bad Churchoid.

One witness would be the victim, the other his or her parent.

Shame on you for condemning a principle of God.

But- that's RIGHT- you're an antichrist.
My bad.

“Surprised By Love”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#5 Dec 15, 2012
Hey MadJW, haven't seen you in a while. Well, abusers don't usually abuse their victims in front of a parent, so that hardly helps. I know that if more than one child has been abused, that can fulfill the two witness rule, but you have to wonder why the report of even one child who claims abuse could not be taken seriously enough to warn parents in the congregation that they need to be on the alert.

If a child claimed to have been abused by a brother, but the brother denies it, unless there is another witness, nothing can be done, per my understanding of the Watchtowers rules. The elder who is aware of the charge, would probably make sure his children are never in contact with this man, but the others in the congregation would not be aware, and wouldn't know be able to protect their children.

I know my children sometimes spent the night at a friend's house. I certainly wouldn't have allowed it had a known a child had accused the father of something. But my husband was not an elder, so I wouldn't have known.

hMMMMMM

Aurora, IL

#6 Dec 15, 2012
UNchained wrote:
It's really very simple to expose the fallacy and amentia of the Watchtower Society's "2 Witness" rule when it comes to sexual abuse.
It can be effectively accomplished with just one question...
Do you know of any pedophile that would sexually abuse a child by requesting 2 witnesses to be present when they commited their crime?
This is barbaric, and insane and proves that the Jehovah's Witnesses cult is nothing but a pedophile paradise, that needs to be regulated much more strictly.
This is why the Conti verdict was so high.
hMMMMMM

Aurora, IL

#7 Dec 15, 2012
much happier now wrote:
Hey MadJW, haven't seen you in a while. Well, abusers don't usually abuse their victims in front of a parent, so that hardly helps. I know that if more than one child has been abused, that can fulfill the two witness rule, but you have to wonder why the report of even one child who claims abuse could not be taken seriously enough to warn parents in the congregation that they need to be on the alert.
If a child claimed to have been abused by a brother, but the brother denies it, unless there is another witness, nothing can be done, per my understanding of the Watchtowers rules. The elder who is aware of the charge, would probably make sure his children are never in contact with this man, but the others in the congregation would not be aware, and wouldn't know be able to protect their children.
I know my children sometimes spent the night at a friend's house. I certainly wouldn't have allowed it had a known a child had accused the father of something. But my husband was not an elder, so I wouldn't have known.
Looks like insaneJW is like many JWs, he has illegal perversions on his computer, and feels if a parent gives him access to a child, he is not committing a crime

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#8 Dec 15, 2012
jw elders are actually instructed to challenge the child to produce two witnesses to the event.

when the child can't produce the witnesses, the child is instructed to shush up about it all, until the TWO WITNESS RULE can be met.

sometimes the jw child must then be repeately raped for years and year more, until another complainer comes forward, all while the jw elders threaten that god will take the everlasting life away from the child, if they don't shut up about it all and stop bringing reproach on jehovah's organization.

“Church Dogma - Coprolite.”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#9 Dec 15, 2012
"Well, abusers don't usually abuse their victims in front of a parent, so that hardly helps."

Sometimes NOT- but a parent who the child TELLS IS aone witness....The child two....

Now teenagers might not fall minto taht catagory- since they are KNOWN to lie for various reasons; a young child has no such otivations...however, even THEN, a parent can convince them to lie.

So, again, it is the most difficult of all problems to deal with.

Condemning OUR effort to do so is just MORE hypocrisy.

There is no clear, cookie-cutter solution.

“Church Dogma - Coprolite.”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#10 Dec 15, 2012
Rbr- where did you get THIS?
"jw elders are actually instructed to challenge the child to produce two witnesses to the event."

“Church Dogma - Coprolite.”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#11 Dec 15, 2012
And, do you feel one should be jailed upon every accusation?
hMMMMM

Aurora, IL

#12 Dec 15, 2012
red blood relative wrote:
jw elders are actually instructed to challenge the child to produce two witnesses to the event.
when the child can't produce the witnesses, the child is instructed to shush up about it all, until the TWO WITNESS RULE can be met.
sometimes the jw child must then be repeately raped for years and year more, until another complainer comes forward, all while the jw elders threaten that god will take the everlasting life away from the child, if they don't shut up about it all and stop bringing reproach on jehovah's organization.
You wonder why sick perverts like insaneJW are attracted to the JW cult??
The windowless walls of Kingdumb Halls provide a safe haven for all male pedophiles, as long as you sell your soul to the WBTS (Satan).

“Church Dogma - Coprolite.”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

#13 Dec 15, 2012
Hmm, you pedophile- you nonly wish.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#14 Dec 16, 2012
the Mad JW wrote:
but a parent who the child TELLS IS aone witness....The child two....
Elders will not simply accept the testimony of a parent who believes their child was telling the truth. A court of law will give weight to it, elders won't. There is absolutely nothing in the Flock Book nor any Watchtower that indicates this. Do you have anything you can point to that says this is the case procedure-wise?

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#15 Dec 16, 2012
UNchained wrote:
It's really very simple to expose the fallacy and amentia of the Watchtower Society's "2 Witness" rule when it comes to sexual abuse.
It can be effectively accomplished with just one question...
Do you know of any pedophile that would sexually abuse a child by requesting 2 witnesses to be present when they commited their crime?
UNchained ALREADY KNOWS that the two witnesses can be two separate victims.

He ALSO knows that one of the witnesses can be forensic evidence.

And, of course, no one can prove anything with one witness because then its one person's word against another. How can you resolve that? Do you punish someone at the word of another person? If I say UNchained touched me must he be punished even though I have no proof to offer?

The two witness rule is from Jesus Christ and even the Law Courts will not convict a person with no corroborating evidence.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#16 Dec 16, 2012
UNchained wrote:
It's really very simple to expose the fallacy and amentia of the Watchtower Society's "2 Witness" rule when it comes to sexual abuse.
It can be effectively accomplished with just one question...
Do you know of any pedophile that would sexually abuse a child by requesting 2 witnesses to be present when they commited their crime?
And of course UNchained ALREADY KNOWS that two witnesses are not necessary to inform the police.

You can and should inform the police even if there are no witnesses and you only SUSPECT a person of abusing a child.

The "two witness" rule ONLY applies to discipline within the Christian congregation.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with reporting crime t the police.

“Family comes First”

Since: May 11

Weston super Mare

#17 Dec 16, 2012
UNchained wrote:
It's really very simple to expose the fallacy and amentia of the Watchtower Society's "2 Witness" rule when it comes to sexual abuse.
It can be effectively accomplished with just one question...
Do you know of any pedophile that would sexually abuse a child by requesting 2 witnesses to be present when they commited their crime?
So obvious. I know when the society first promulgated this idea thinking how likesly is that 2 people are going to be around during such an assault.

More WTBTS lunacy.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#18 Dec 16, 2012
Mikronboy wrote:
<quoted text>
So obvious. I know when the society first promulgated this idea thinking how likesly is that 2 people are going to be around during such an assault.
More WTBTS lunacy.
Actually it is just a common lie that has been exposed many times but people like UNchained will continue to promote it.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#19 Dec 16, 2012
red blood relative wrote:
jw elders are actually instructed to challenge the child to produce two witnesses to the event.
when the child can't produce the witnesses, the child is instructed to shush up about it all, until the TWO WITNESS RULE can be met.
sometimes the jw child must then be repeately raped for years and year more, until another complainer comes forward, all while the jw elders threaten that god will take the everlasting life away from the child, if they don't shut up about it all and stop bringing reproach on jehovah's organization.
None of that is true.

The parents of the child are told that they have every right to inform the police.

http://www.jw-media.org/aboutjw/article23.htm

"Additionally, the victim or anyone else who has knowledge of the allegation may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so."

“Family comes First”

Since: May 11

Weston super Mare

#22 Dec 16, 2012
Jehovah's Witnesses Office of Public Information

Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Protection

(This is the Official Child Abuse Policy Statement on the Official Watchtower Media Website at http://www.jw-media.org )

When any one of Jehovah's Witnesses is accused of an act of child abuse, the local congregation elders are expected to investigate. Two elders meet separately with the accused and the accuser to see what each says on the matter. If the accused denies the charge, the two elders may arrange for him and the victim to restate their position in each other's presence, with elders also there. If during that meeting the accused still denies the charges and there are no others who can substantiate them, the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that time. Why not? As a Bible-based organization, we must adhere to what the Scriptures say, namely, "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin ... At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good." (Deuteronomy 19:15) Jesus reaffirmed this principle as recorded at Matthew 18:15-17. However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony may be deemed sufficient to take action.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#23 Dec 16, 2012
Mikronboy wrote:
Jehovah's Witnesses Office of Public Information
Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Protection
(This is the Official Child Abuse Policy Statement on the Official Watchtower Media Website at http://www.jw-media.org )
When any one of Jehovah's Witnesses is accused of an act of child abuse, the local congregation elders are expected to investigate. Two elders meet separately with the accused and the accuser to see what each says on the matter. If the accused denies the charge, the two elders may arrange for him and the victim to restate their position in each other's presence, with elders also there. If during that meeting the accused still denies the charges and there are no others who can substantiate them, the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that time. Why not? As a Bible-based organization, we must adhere to what the Scriptures say, namely, "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin ... At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good." (Deuteronomy 19:15) Jesus reaffirmed this principle as recorded at Matthew 18:15-17. However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony may be deemed sufficient to take action.
Mikronboy,

Do you think it is right that a person should be punished based solely on one person's accusation?

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