“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#560 Sep 17, 2013
array wrote:
<quoted text>law they take advantage of but ignore Gods law of protecting the innocent, the WT claims no clergy but they have many elders that take advantage of this Christendom foundation of penitance of clergy, as usual the wt speaks out of both sides of its mouth when suited.
The law of Jehovah is far more superior but you do not recongise it. Your worldy WT is a secular religion based on the pharasaic Sanhedrin, they became a law unto themselves, rejecting Christ law of love and caring for his flock.
Your clergy worldly law suits, but they claim they have no clergy. If that is true then why don't they make that clear as witness to the nations they are no part of the world and stand out as different to the clergy class of Christendom, but in truth they are no different to any other religion that pleads clegry confidentiality when it comes to protecting themselves.
I bet they would spill their guts on confidentual matters if it involved trying to help the WT out of a case that any brother brought foward against them with their own words.
It is obvious that the Wt uses this clergy law to overide the law of Jehvoah to be a witness for his abused sheep against the wolves within.
You're a raving lunatic.

You have either read nothing or understood nothing presented in this thread.

Or you are far too dishonest to accept it.

In all events "mentally diseased".
Spike

Saddle River, NJ

#561 Sep 17, 2013
jackie wrote:
<quoted text>
Jealousy will get you no where spike.
You can never take anything away from that woman.
i am not one bit jealous of a worthless old lady who wasted her life. I can't take anything away from her, as she had nothing.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#562 Sep 17, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
You're a raving lunatic.
You have either read nothing or understood nothing presented in this thread.
Or you are far too dishonest to accept it.
In all events "mentally diseased".
I'm deeply hurt.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#563 Sep 17, 2013
Spike wrote:
<quoted text>
i am not one bit jealous of a worthless old lady who wasted her life. I can't take anything away from her, as she had nothing.
Of course you're jealous. You are falling over yourself looking for ATTENTION from anyone who will listen to you. And it gets so bad you will say ANYTHING to SHOCK people just so that they will pay some attention to you. Even if its to tell you what a piece of refuse you are.
Phil the Eunuch

Goshen, NY

#564 Sep 17, 2013
if you travel to europe you would see that religion has blurred it's way into oblivion, and you know what? they're doing fine with their traditions...as traditions are understood to be traditions... not some sort of god ordained ritual

“New one man.”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#565 Sep 17, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
No, they have a legal duty REGARDLESS of that they claim.
"clergy privilege" protects the pedophile NOT the elders.
YOU PEOPLE SHOULD PAY ATTENTION or LEARN TO READ
No, they use it to protect the org. They don't want anyone thinking there could be a pedophile in the ranks.
YOU SHOULD OPEN YOUR EYES AND QUIT BEING SO BLIND.

btw.....as far as all the fuss, it isn't simply about them calling themselves elders instead of clergy, it's about them invoking clergy privilege when it suits their purpose, then denying it again, when they want to act like they are different than other religions. But you knew that.

“New one man.”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#566 Sep 17, 2013
array wrote:
<quoted text>
they have no scriptual grounds for filing away peoples sins for years for all other elders that come later to read. That is not confidentual is it.
They like to keep a record of 'wrongs' committed, then when they decide to df someone they have an accumulated record.

That was actually quite a shock to a fella who was up for elder years ago.

They had a meeting with him and pulled out a file accumulated from 3 different halls and 30 some years. He had been counseled, along with his girlfriend (before anything happened),at 21-22 about being chaste. There was no complaint or anything else, they just felt he needed counseled. He also backed out of baptism when he was 20 something, and they had all the files on those 'sessions'.
There was several things, none of which even by JW 'standards' were worthy of counseling much less the run around they ended up giving him. It took them 2 more years to decide he was worthy and send the request to hq.
About a month after he became an elder the one who gave him the most 'encouragement to live right'(aka grief) was dfd for cheating on his wife.

Yes they do keep records, very detailed records. You have to wonder why?

And before the internet jws start screaming,'you couldn't possibly know this'... 1 you know (if you have ever been in a hall for more than a few months) that everyone knows. and 2 He is a relative of mine.
Spike

Saddle River, NJ

#567 Sep 17, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course you're jealous. You are falling over yourself looking for ATTENTION from anyone who will listen to you. And it gets so bad you will say ANYTHING to SHOCK people just so that they will pay some attention to you. Even if its to tell you what a piece of refuse you are.
garethpenis, do you have an itch?

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#568 Sep 17, 2013
MixedMedia wrote:
<quoted text>
They like to keep a record of 'wrongs' committed, then when they decide to df someone they have an accumulated record.
That was actually quite a shock to a fella who was up for elder years ago.
They had a meeting with him and pulled out a file accumulated from 3 different halls and 30 some years. He had been counseled, along with his girlfriend (before anything happened),at 21-22 about being chaste. There was no complaint or anything else, they just felt he needed counseled. He also backed out of baptism when he was 20 something, and they had all the files on those 'sessions'.
There was several things, none of which even by JW 'standards' were worthy of counseling much less the run around they ended up giving him. It took them 2 more years to decide he was worthy and send the request to hq.
About a month after he became an elder the one who gave him the most 'encouragement to live right'(aka grief) was dfd for cheating on his wife.
Yes they do keep records, very detailed records. You have to wonder why?
And before the internet jws start screaming,'you couldn't possibly know this'... 1 you know (if you have ever been in a hall for more than a few months) that everyone knows. and 2 He is a relative of mine.
amazing, wonder where the scripture is on that, perhaps Aneirin/Garthe in all his WT wisdom could find some excuse, or he will just let this one get lost in a few days.

The GB has files on pedophiles wonder why they havn't turned that over to the police, maybe they can claim clergy prividge, more than likley they have shredded them all after all the exposure to this sickening cover up.

Yes took at all the petty little things they keep on b/s over the years, they no different to the Pharasees of the Sanhedrin, making their own rules and laws beating up the flock, while trying to hide the weighter sins that would show them as who they really are.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#570 Sep 17, 2013
MixedMedia wrote:
<quoted text>
They like to keep a record of 'wrongs' committed, then when they decide to df someone they have an accumulated record.
That was actually quite a shock to a fella who was up for elder years ago.
They had a meeting with him and pulled out a file accumulated from 3 different halls and 30 some years. He had been counseled, along with his girlfriend (before anything happened),at 21-22 about being chaste. There was no complaint or anything else, they just felt he needed counseled. He also backed out of baptism when he was 20 something, and they had all the files on those 'sessions'.
There was several things, none of which even by JW 'standards' were worthy of counseling much less the run around they ended up giving him. It took them 2 more years to decide he was worthy and send the request to hq.
About a month after he became an elder the one who gave him the most 'encouragement to live right'(aka grief) was dfd for cheating on his wife.
Yes they do keep records, very detailed records. You have to wonder why?
And before the internet jws start screaming,'you couldn't possibly know this'... 1 you know (if you have ever been in a hall for more than a few months) that everyone knows. and 2 He is a relative of mine.
So now you admit that they are VERY CAREFUL about who gets to be appointed as an elder.

People can draw good comfort from that.

And it is all in keeping with the scriptural responsibility to only appoint QUALIFIED men and those qualifications, according to the Bible, include their CONDUCT and their freedom from accusation.

Taking a persons past into account is therefore ESSENTIAL in obeying the scriptures.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#571 Sep 17, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
So now you admit that they are VERY CAREFUL about who gets to be appointed as an elder.
People can draw good comfort from that.
And it is all in keeping with the scriptural responsibility to only appoint QUALIFIED men and those qualifications, according to the Bible, include their CONDUCT and their freedom from accusation.
Taking a persons past into account is therefore ESSENTIAL in obeying the scriptures.
Aneirin, there is currently an Elder serving in the congregation I once attended that is banned from going into a few places in his town due to his conduct, and bad language, and abuse of the people who work there, would you consider him to be of good conduct?

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#572 Sep 17, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
You're a raving lunatic.
You have either read nothing or understood nothing presented in this thread.
Or you are far too dishonest to accept it.
In all events "mentally diseased".
can you show me where it is scriptual to keep reports of sins of ones in files in the KH so that any elder can see, is this confidentuality. Or could it be clergy class privelige, opps sorr the WT says there is no clergy class.

show from the scriptures where it is written that a persons past sins are to be recorded in a file, even repentant ones.

Does not Jehovah forget the sin and it is remembered no more when one is repetant, but the elders remember it don't they and for years as they keep files on b/s past errors.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#573 Sep 17, 2013
array wrote:
<quoted text>can you show me where it is scriptual to keep reports of sins of ones in files in the KH so that any elder can see, is this confidentuality. Or could it be clergy class privelige, opps sorr the WT says there is no clergy class.
show from the scriptures where it is written that a persons past sins are to be recorded in a file, even repentant ones.
Does not Jehovah forget the sin and it is remembered no more when one is repetant, but the elders remember it don't they and for years as they keep files on b/s past errors.
You show us:

1) What the WT publications ACTUALLY SAID about having a "clergy" so we can examine THEIR words rather than your claims.

2) Where in the Bible does it forbid us from writing things down on paper?

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#574 Sep 17, 2013
The Real Karen wrote:
Aneirin, there is currently an Elder serving in the congregation I once attended that is banned from going into a few places in his town due to his conduct, and bad language, and abuse of the people who work there, would you consider him to be of good conduct?
Not that we can believe anything you say but we both know that if two witnesses were to present their testimony to the other elders then such an elders as you described would be made to step down.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#575 Sep 17, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
You show us:
1) What the WT publications ACTUALLY SAID about having a "clergy" so we can examine THEIR words rather than your claims.
2) Where in the Bible does it forbid us from writing things down on paper?
now you are jumping left and round in circles, was talking about the clergy of Chrisendom and how the GB run them down as being materialistic, and how they are greedy, does not the WT say that have not you said that, that was the point, and you know the WT runs down priests.

now second, I ask you to show me from the bible where Jehovah says to keep past sins of ones for years in a file, even repentant ones.

Again I say does Jehovah not remember the sin no more of repentants ones.

Question then why does the JW keep files on even repentant ones, when Jehovah does not keep account, but the JW do in files for years even of repentant ones.

Show from the scriptures where it says that one should keep account of past sins of others. Show it!!

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#576 Sep 17, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
You show us:
1) What the WT publications ACTUALLY SAID about having a "clergy" so we can examine THEIR words rather than your claims.
2) Where in the Bible does it forbid us from writing things down on paper?
the watchtower does not say anything about having a clergy that is what is so hypocritical, because they become just like Christendom in a court a claim to be clergy when it suits.

hooo hummmm what hypocricy.

no clergy but the elders by law can be classified as clergy why because the WT claims a clergy penitance privilege, so they themselves are saying they are clergy, but just for duration of the hearing.

Why not just say in court sorry your honor we are not clergy, we are elders ministers of God as is MS and any JW that is a minister, can I go to court and claim clergy privilege, NO its only elders, not MS or any other JW that the WT says is a minister, and what are ministers according to the word clergy.

what a woeful web we weave when first we try to decieve.

Elders are only clergy in a court but only if they accept it so they accept it so by law they are clergy for their day in court, but take of the masquerade and in the congregation they are just elders not clergy.

So when priest go to court and claim clergy privilege they are ok to are they not? Well at least they don't have a split personality and are clergy outside court as well as in their church.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#577 Sep 17, 2013
array wrote:
<quoted text>now you are jumping left and round in circles, was talking about the clergy of Chrisendom and how the GB run them down as being materialistic, and how they are greedy, does not the WT say that have not you said that, that was the point, and you know the WT runs down priests.
now second, I ask you to show me from the bible where Jehovah says to keep past sins of ones for years in a file, even repentant ones.
Again I say does Jehovah not remember the sin no more of repentants ones.
Question then why does the JW keep files on even repentant ones, when Jehovah does not keep account, but the JW do in files for years even of repentant ones.
Show from the scriptures where it says that one should keep account of past sins of others. Show it!!
You show us:

1) What the WT publications ACTUALLY SAID about having a "clergy" so we can examine THEIR words rather than your claims.

2) Where in the Bible does it forbid us from writing things down on paper?

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#578 Sep 17, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Not that we can believe anything you say but we both know that if two witnesses were to present their testimony to the other elders then such an elders as you described would be made to step down.
It does not surprise me that you took this course, never let it be known that all Elders are not picture perfect. I am not lying, this is the truth. There are many witnesses to the fact that he did do exactly what I said, of course most of them are not witnesses,(and we know that JW's are the only ones who tell the truth, right?) but some KNOW the witnesses personally and were very shocked by his actions. He has been an Elder for a great many years, and was one of the ones who came to my home to tell me they forgot about my mothers death due to a KH remodel. I guess it should not shock me that he forgot, if he conducts his self in such a manner as he did and does. He has never been ask to step down, nor will they do that, they just hope that the fact that he is banned from these places never gets around to those inside the KH.
Aneirin, open your eyes to the fact that there is bad inside your KH, there is bad inside all religions, all churches and all KH's. There is bad inside my church as well, and I will admit to it. Hiding things and trying to make the world see you as perfect never leads to anything good. Before anything can be done, it has to be admitted that it happens! Your Elders are not perfect, neither are my Deacons. JUST ADMIT IT ANEIRIN.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#579 Sep 17, 2013
array wrote:
<quoted text>1st century older men were spiritually mature men, converted not born in the faith, most experienced the hardships of life, they were not men in theitwentieses from bethel or immature young men that have no experience in life, but could empathize with thcongregantsts. Most today are ones that are born in the faith.
Years ago one would never hear of a elder being in their twenties and some even in their thirties was rare. today they are all much younger, I think this is because there is a lack of spiritually mature men in the org, and having more elders in the cong takes the pressure of the other elders the work load is minimized.
So basically it recruiting more society men.
.
. The Jews of Christ day.. didn't reach so called maturity until they were in their 30's.. And out on their own..supporting themselves. I expect..

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#580 Sep 17, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
So now you admit that they are VERY CAREFUL about who gets to be appointed as an elder.
People can draw good comfort from that.
And it is all in keeping with the scriptural responsibility to only appoint QUALIFIED men and those qualifications, according to the Bible, include their CONDUCT and their freedom from accusation.
Taking a persons past into account is therefore ESSENTIAL in obeying the scriptures.
.
. They can only go by ..what they have observed.. Do you honestly think that the candidates for elder.. are going to expose their bad side to the committee??? But the fact is ..once they have been appointed..and their ego is enlarged.. the reality sets in.. and what they really are shows it's face..for Good or for bad...

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