You left the truth aware of consequen...

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#540 Sep 16, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a lie. Typical RedhorseWoman twisting.
No one forces and elder to "invoke" clergy privilege, but it is they LEGAL duty to maintain the privilege. If they fail to do it when the law dictates they must, then they open themselves up for future prosecution.
And it is a WELL KNOWN FACT that Jehovah's Witnesses elders are treated like "clergy" b the law courts. RedhorseWoman knows this but she is being deliberately argumentative.
the elders would get their instructions from the bethel lawyers as to what to say, if the elder decides not to take the direction from bethel and decides by his own free choice not to take clergy privilege tells the truth, for example in a case of pedophilia that yes we had complaints about brother perv and we were adviced by our bethel lawyers not to say anything and apply clergy privilege, guess what will happen to the elder, any guesses!
jackie

Southampton, PA

#541 Sep 16, 2013
Maravilla wrote:
<quoted text>
.
. Garth.. Mormons are also referred to as Elders..So..umm! the WTS..will have to put their thinking caps on and come up with a new word...Tisk!
Isn't it the Mormons, who take on more than one wife?
Spike

West Orange, NJ

#542 Sep 16, 2013
jackie wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't it the Mormons, who take on more than one wife?
How long was your mother disfellowshipped for? What did she do? Painkiller addiction? I doubt a woman in her condition had an affair.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#543 Sep 16, 2013
array wrote:
<quoted text>the elders would get their instructions from the bethel lawyers as to what to say, if the elder decides not to take the direction from bethel and decides by his own free choice not to take clergy privilege tells the truth, for example in a case of pedophilia that yes we had complaints about brother perv and we were adviced by our bethel lawyers not to say anything and apply clergy privilege, guess what will happen to the elder, any guesses!
He'll get sued for clergy malpractice by the pedophile.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#544 Sep 16, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
He'll get sued for clergy malpractice by the pedophile.
so they go against their conscience in fear of being sued, as the WT says they have no clergy, but are clergy when the courts say so.

So the Wt goes along with in fear of being sued.

Was Jesus in fear of the courts, no never he spoke the truth and gave a witness showing he was seperate from the world, otherwise he would be no better pharasees.

Does Jehovah not view their claim, namely, that He is the Director of the secular organization, as blasphemous, profaning his holy name? This has also naturally led them to assert that they, serving under God's direction as members of the governing body, which belongs to this corporation, have been appointed by God and therefore they are "Jehovah's channel of communication for our day;" and that, if we want to have God's favor, "it is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the 'slave' as we would to the voice of God, because it is his provision." (w57 6/15 p. 370) Did Jehovah not say that he does not share his own glory with anyone, save for his only-begotten Son?(Phil. 2:5-11; Heb. 1:1-3; 5:5; 9:24) Like the priests in the time of the Israelites, they are failing to "teach my people the difference between the holy and the common?"
http://perimeno.ca/Sacred_and_Secular.htm

distingish between what is sacred and what is secualar.
jackie

Southampton, PA

#545 Sep 16, 2013
Spike wrote:
<quoted text>
How long was your mother disfellowshipped for? What did she do? Painkiller addiction? I doubt a woman in her condition had an affair.
Jealousy will get you no where spike.

You can never take anything away from that woman.

“New one man.”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#546 Sep 16, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
I mean all this fuss over the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses use the word "elder" and do not use the word "clergy".
And the time and dedication you people are putting in to make that fact sound like some dastardly plan. I mean what a horrible evil you have uncovered in that Jehovah's Witnesses use different terminology - from the Bible no less.
After all this and you don't even know what the fuss was about. Roflmao. You got to be kidding.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#547 Sep 16, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible says "elders". I should think that's good enough. Don't you?
.
don't care what ya call um.. but back then.. The Elders were the literal older men.. Those that had more experience.. not these young men who haven't even raised a family and have no clue what reality is.. With their preconceived ideas that they know it all.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#548 Sep 16, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
He'll get sued for clergy malpractice by the pedophile.
.
. Meaning that he fears man ,,more then GOD.. AGAIN... the pedophile is guilty ..what leg does he have to stand on??? Let him sue..

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#549 Sep 16, 2013
Maravilla wrote:
<quoted text>
.
don't care what ya call um.. but back then.. The Elders were the literal older men.. Those that had more experience.. not these young men who haven't even raised a family and have no clue what reality is.. With their preconceived ideas that they know it all.
1st century older men were spiritually mature men, converted not born in the faith, most experienced the hardships of life, they were not men in theitwentieses from bethel or immature young men that have no experience in life, but could empathize with thcongregantsts. Most today are ones that are born in the faith.

Years ago one would never hear of a elder being in their twenties and some even in their thirties was rare. today they are all much younger, I think this is because there is a lack of spiritually mature men in the org, and having more elders in the cong takes the pressure of the other elders the work load is minimized.

So basically it recruiting more society men.

“Life is short, enjoy life.:-).”

Since: Aug 13

Baghdad, Iraq

#550 Sep 16, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Nonsense. Jehovah's Witnesses don't get to choose how the law considers their elders.
CORRECT! The Governing Body does that for them!!:-p
SusieB

Richland, WA

#551 Sep 17, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
I mean all this fuss over the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses use the word "elder" and do not use the word "clergy".
And the time and dedication you people are putting in to make that fact sound like some dastardly plan. I mean what a horrible evil you have uncovered in that Jehovah's Witnesses use different terminology - from the Bible no less.
I guess you have no clue that most "religions" use the same terminology from the bible...they use the word "ELDERS" too!

JW's really have nothing over other "religions" except that they teach untruths which take them out of the classification and terminology of "CHRISTIAN" ;-)
SusieB

Richland, WA

#552 Sep 17, 2013
array wrote:
<quoted text>they brag Jehvoah is on their side and this is also shown through the courts, yet when they are called up they apply the clergy privelege so as not to testify, if they really were concerned about the little ones they would apply JW law. James1:27
Its all about protecting themselves, if they have nothing to hide it would matter, and being honest and applying Gods principles give a witness, rather we have all these things coming back to bite them and giving Jehovahs name a bad witness, seems Jehovah or the sheep are not the main concern but the organization and protecting the coffers.
They have printed in the WT that they have no need of [mans] law courts...but if they want to purchase land and build their KH's where people don't want them, they take them to court!
They educate their own in law and use mans judicial system to their advantage every time they deem it necessary.
They sue whenever they want and for whatever they want.
They are no better than any other "religion" or organization in the world of mankind.
They [GB/FDS] are the one's who lift themselves up on those pedestals to be looked upon as gods, but when they are really "looked upon" they run to mans law courts to cry persecution, prejudice, and privilege!
Haha, yeah they are nothing more than "religious" harlots ;-)
They fornicate with and adulterate the "system" to obtain the outcome they desire...then defecate on it.
So much for being "GODS CHOSEN"...

aadriver

Since: Aug 09

Bedfordshire, England

#553 Sep 17, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Jehovah's Witnesses have their own terminology. That's all.
The word "clergy" is not part of Jehovah's Witnesses terminology. And because of that you are making up this story that something devious is going on. You're crazy. Its just that Jehovah's Witnesses use the Bible terms "elder". Church terminology is irrelevant to Jehovah's Witnesses.
The fact that the law courts treat elders as "clergy" is nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses. And there is nothing wrong or sinister about Jehovah's Witnesses accepting the LEGAL term "clergy" being applied to them when appropriate.
Here you are being paranoid and making up stories of some nefarious conspiracy revolving aroung the use of the word "clergy". My goodness, grow up. There is NOTHING sinister going on. Just a meeting of two different terminologies. One for Jehovah's Witnesses the other for the law courts.
Garath we could give you a long list of how the org speak out of both sides of their mouths. This is just one instance.
When they first try to develop interest to a bible study they go to great lengths to show they are nothing like the clergy. They say they are there to assist witnesses be better Christians, they say they do not get paid like the clergy do, there is no hierarchy structure, they do not go to theology colleges.
As I said before a woman in the cong can have the same qualifications as an elder except she would have to testify if she had evidence in a court case whereas the elders don't have to because they have become clergymen temporarily.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#554 Sep 17, 2013
array wrote:
<quoted text>so they go against their conscience in fear of being sued, as the WT says they have no clergy, but are clergy when the courts say so.
So the Wt goes along with in fear of being sued.
Was Jesus in fear of the courts, no never he spoke the truth and gave a witness showing he was seperate from the world, otherwise he would be no better pharasees.
Does Jehovah not view their claim, namely, that He is the Director of the secular organization, as blasphemous, profaning his holy name? This has also naturally led them to assert that they, serving under God's direction as members of the governing body, which belongs to this corporation, have been appointed by God and therefore they are "Jehovah's channel of communication for our day;" and that, if we want to have God's favor, "it is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the 'slave' as we would to the voice of God, because it is his provision." (w57 6/15 p. 370) Did Jehovah not say that he does not share his own glory with anyone, save for his only-begotten Son?(Phil. 2:5-11; Heb. 1:1-3; 5:5; 9:24) Like the priests in the time of the Israelites, they are failing to "teach my people the difference between the holy and the common?"
http://perimeno.ca/Sacred_and_Secular.htm
distingish between what is sacred and what is secualar.
They have a LEGAL DUTY to keep confidential info confidential and a SCRIPTURAL DUTY to obey the law.

AGAIN we covered this a million times already.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#555 Sep 17, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
They have a LEGAL DUTY to keep confidential info confidential and a SCRIPTURAL DUTY to obey the law.
AGAIN we covered this a million times already.
because they claim clergy privilege

they have no scriptual grounds for filing away peoples sins for years for all other elders that come later to read. That is not confidentual is it.

Do they have a moral duty not to speak out in defense of an abused one, but a legal duty to keep silent to protect the criminal. Oh I see how convenient that is for the WT, cry clergy privilege this way it protects the organization on what they know about the criminal and could have protected the innocent had they gone to the police in the first place so they wait until it hits the court room and use the clergy privilege option.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#556 Sep 17, 2013
Jehovah’s Witnesses and Clergy Privilege
Despite their proclaiming that they have no clergy class, congregation elders have on several occasions invoked clergy privilege when called upon to testify against child molesters in their midst. Such was the case near me in New Hampshire when congregation elders refused to testify in the cases of Gregory Blackstock and Paul Berry.
So, they try to have it both ways. On the one hand they want to allow some of their leaders to enjoy the privileges that accrue to the clergy of other religious organizations, such as tax advantages and clergy privilege, while on they other hand they try to characterize their leaders as not being “clergy” in order to differentiate themselves from the churches of Christendom. As with so many other areas with Jehovah’s Witnesses, it is a distiction without a difference.
http://www.docbob.org/wordpress/jehovahs-witn...

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#557 Sep 17, 2013
array wrote:
<quoted text>because they claim clergy privilege
No, they have a legal duty REGARDLESS of that they claim.

"clergy privilege" protects the pedophile NOT the elders.

YOU PEOPLE SHOULD PAY ATTENTION or LEARN TO READ

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#558 Sep 17, 2013
array wrote:
Jehovah’s Witnesses and Clergy Privilege
Despite their proclaiming that they have no clergy class, congregation elders have on several occasions invoked clergy privilege when called upon to testify against child molesters in their midst. Such was the case near me in New Hampshire when congregation elders refused to testify in the cases of Gregory Blackstock and Paul Berry.
So, they try to have it both ways. On the one hand they want to allow some of their leaders to enjoy the privileges that accrue to the clergy of other religious organizations, such as tax advantages and clergy privilege, while on they other hand they try to characterize their leaders as not being “clergy” in order to differentiate themselves from the churches of Christendom. As with so many other areas with Jehovah’s Witnesses, it is a distiction without a difference.
This has now been explained. You are making out like "clergy privilege" is the elder's fault. Its not. It is written into LAW.

The elders claim it to protect themselves from breaking civil law.

The privilege is ACTUALLY only a protection for the pedophile NOT the elders.

Claiming "clergy privilege" is part of the elder's LEGAL DUTY to the confessor.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#559 Sep 17, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
This has now been explained. You are making out like "clergy privilege" is the elder's fault. Its not. It is written into LAW.
The elders claim it to protect themselves from breaking civil law.
The privilege is ACTUALLY only a protection for the pedophile NOT the elders.
Claiming "clergy privilege" is part of the elder's LEGAL DUTY to the confessor.
law they take advantage of but ignore Gods law of protecting the innocent, the WT claims no clergy but they have many elders that take advantage of this Christendom foundation of penitance of clergy, as usual the wt speaks out of both sides of its mouth when suited.

The law of Jehovah is far more superior but you do not recongise it. Your worldy WT is a secular religion based on the pharasaic Sanhedrin, they became a law unto themselves, rejecting Christ law of love and caring for his flock.

Your clergy worldly law suits, but they claim they have no clergy. If that is true then why don't they make that clear as witness to the nations they are no part of the world and stand out as different to the clergy class of Christendom, but in truth they are no different to any other religion that pleads clegry confidentiality when it comes to protecting themselves.

I bet they would spill their guts on confidentual matters if it involved trying to help the WT out of a case that any brother brought foward against them with their own words.

It is obvious that the Wt uses this clergy law to overide the law of Jehvoah to be a witness for his abused sheep against the wolves within.

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