ATTN: Barbara Anderson re: OSCE confe...

ATTN: Barbara Anderson re: OSCE conference and NGO info

Posted in the Jehovah's Witness Forum

First Prev
of 27
Next Last
legalman59

Nashville, TN

#1 Oct 2, 2012
Over at JWN there is a topic Barbara Anderson started about the watchtower's involvement again in the OSCE conference as a NGO.

There is some debate as to whether or not this means the watchtower is registered as an NGO through the United Nations.

Through following links at the OSCE website for the qualifications needed to attend and speak as NGO's I found that yes, it does mean they are registered as an NGO through the United Nations.

The link to show the specifications provided at the OSCE website is

http://associationline.org/guidebook/action/r...

I tried to register at JWN but it's ridiculously difficult and my attempts failed.

If any cross readers are here, please post this at JWN if you can.

Thanks.

Since: Jun 11

Thornlie, Australia

#2 Oct 2, 2012
legalman59 wrote:
, it does mean they are registered as an NGO through the United Nations.
I couldn't find this requirement, are you able to provide an extract or link to the direct page?

Since: Jun 11

Thornlie, Australia

#3 Oct 2, 2012
Being a NGO associated with the OSCE means
"Whatever their character, non-governmental organisations are generally recognised as
making not only an essential contribution to the development and realisation of democracy
and human rights, particularly through the promotion of public awareness, participation in
public life and securing the transparency and accountability of public authorities, but also to
the cultural life and social well-being of democratic societies."
As far as I can tell their association means the upholding and advancing of democracy.
Wickipedia explains democracy as
"Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives. Democracy allows people to participate equally—either directly or through elected representatives—in the proposal, development, and creation of laws. It encompasses social, economic and cultural conditions that enable the free and equal practice of political self-determination. The term originates from the Greek: δημ οκρ ατί α (dēmokratía) "rule of the people",[1] which was coined from δῆ&#956 ;ος (dêmos) "people" and κρά τος (kratos) "power", around 400 BCE, to denote the political systems then existing in Greek city-states, notably Athens."
In comparison, say China and other countries which are politically communistic, set up an organization in which it allowed NGO's to associate with them to contribute and develope their comunistic ideals, would this be acceptable?
Why

Scarborough, UK

#4 Oct 3, 2012
And your point or even Barbara's Paul was a Full roman citizen and used this to have access to Caesar!

You have to be a country to be a member of the UN the NGO status are simply that like Paul we need access and information. We need access to countries to preach and information.

It's a total non-argument creating wrongdoing were there is none!

In fact most anti-witness arguments are about creating doubt and wrongdoing were there is none!

Is it wrong to have access to government agencies to further preaching work? Paul showed this was okay!

Is it a failing to make mistakes and be imperfect? No! The bible shows this is the reality until Armageddon.

We shouldn't use bible prophecy and if we do it is wrong to make mistakes on it! Nope! The bible says God's people absolutely will use bible prophecy and constantly need refining on it!

Apostate argument play on people's gullibility!

“Bustin' Myths”

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#5 Oct 3, 2012
Why wrote:
And your point or even Barbara's Paul was a Full roman citizen and used this to have access to Caesar!
You have to be a country to be a member of the UN the NGO status are simply that like Paul we need access and information. We need access to countries to preach and information.
It's a total non-argument creating wrongdoing were there is none!
In fact most anti-witness arguments are about creating doubt and wrongdoing were there is none!
Is it wrong to have access to government agencies to further preaching work? Paul showed this was okay!
Is it a failing to make mistakes and be imperfect? No! The bible shows this is the reality until Armageddon.
We shouldn't use bible prophecy and if we do it is wrong to make mistakes on it! Nope! The bible says God's people absolutely will use bible prophecy and constantly need refining on it!
Apostate argument play on people's gullibility!
Wroooooong! Do you know what NGO stands for? Try Wikipedia, it's written by normal people on a level, well, try Wikipedia.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#6 Oct 3, 2012
The Bible teaches that government authorities are there for our help:

*** Rom 13:1 Let every soul be in subjection to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those who exist are ordained by God.

*** Rom 13:2 Therefore he who resists the authority, withstands the ordinance of God; and those who withstand will receive to themselves judgment.

*** Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Do you desire to have no fear of the authority? Do that which is good, and you will have praise from the same,

*** Rom 13:4 for he is a servant of God to you for good. But if you do that which is evil, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is a servant of God, an avenger for wrath to him who does evil.

There is no Bible reason why Jehovah's Witnesses should not use the government authorities as "a servant of God to [us] for good."

Jehovah's Witnesses do just that.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#7 Oct 3, 2012
People often seem to criticize Jehovah's Witnesses for their dealings with the United Nations yet that have never yet provided one single Bible based reason why they should not.

Jehovah's Witnesses:
http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/

Jehovah's Witnesses' publications:
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/

Jehovah's Witnesses' Bible teachings:
http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/
Why

Scarborough, UK

#9 Oct 3, 2012
Mythbusters wrote:
<quoted text>
Wroooooong! Do you know what NGO stands for? Try Wikipedia, it's written by normal people on a level, well, try Wikipedia.
I refer you to Aneirin's answer above!

You have to provide proof of wrongdoing biblically.

Paul was a Roman citizen of his day and used this to further the preaching work even to Caesar himself!

Rome was the UN equivalent and allowed in it's position by God!

We ourselves are citizens of countries and have to respect their laws and rules and that goes for the UN too.

Using governments to help preaching work is allowed.
jace

Woodbridge, VA

#10 Oct 3, 2012
the basic problem the wt runs into is hyprocrisy.

For decades the wt has dogged ever single religion on the face of the earth for having a working relationship or turning to the UN for assistance

The wt calls it Going Down to Eygpt.

the wt finally realized what other religions have known for decades, that the UN can help one out

if you talk to the avg religios denomnation who works with the UN or partcipates in various UN programs, it is not cause they think it is God kingdom on earth, THEY UNDERSTAND POLITICS WT DON'T

FINALLY the wt decides to GO DOWN TO EGYPT FOR HELP the same Help that other religions have been seeking, obtaining and benifiting from since THE UN WAS FORM BACK IN THE 40'S

ITS the wt sheer hyprocrisy that is the Issue
many american citizens in poll after poll hate the UN, thinks it worthless and a waste of good tax payer money

anyone who does 'BRIEF" READING of the WT attack on the UN for the last 60yrs clearly sees that based on their lanaguage one would not expect such a religion Publicly to dog the UN and under the cover seeking out the UN

it reminds one of a religious person who protest outside a HO house with blow hour and sandwich placards, BUT AT NIGHT IS SEEN GOING in to get some MUFF MUFF

that wt double standard is great

wt NEVER ARGUED THAT OTHER RELIGIONS WERE DOING WHAT PAUL WAS DOING merely taking advantage of a service rendered

their own published material speaks for itself

they can't REWRITE WHAT THEY HAVE WRITTEN SINCE THE 40'S
they literally talked S*([email protected] about the UN and now they want to speak all noble of the UN helping them with UN rights and peaceful living conditions

i thought they were telling other religions to WAIT ON JAH AND HIS KINGDOM

LOL
jace

Woodbridge, VA

#11 Oct 3, 2012
can a jw do me a favor?

could you post a WT document that says they view going to the UN as Paul

i have seen non wt reps like we have here say it, but i can't recall seeing the wt put out any press release stating that

if any jw has one please provide thanks

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#12 Oct 3, 2012
jace wrote:
the basic problem the wt runs into is hyprocrisy.
For decades the wt has dogged ever single religion on the face of the earth for having a working relationship or turning to the UN for assistance
This is simply not true.

The only thing Jehovah's Witnesses have ever criticized other religions for is PROMOTING the UN as mankind's best hope for peace or for promoting the UN as an expression of God's Kingdom on earth or for political involvement with the UN.

Jehovah's Witnesses have never done any of those things.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#13 Oct 3, 2012
jace wrote:
can a jw do me a favor?
could you post a WT document that says they view going to the UN as Paul
i have seen non wt reps like we have here say it, but i can't recall seeing the wt put out any press release stating that
if any jw has one please provide thanks
Can Jace provide a quote from Jehovah's Witnesses publications criticizing another religion for doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING that Jehovah's Witnesses are doing?

Clearly not.

Can Jace provide one BIBLE BASED reason why Jehovah's Witnesses should not seek assistance from the United Nations?

Clearly not.

Since: Jun 11

Thornlie, Australia

#14 Oct 3, 2012
Why wrote:
And your point or even Barbara's Paul was a Full roman citizen and used this to have access to Caesar!
You have to be a country to be a member of the UN the NGO status are simply that like Paul we need access and information. We need access to countries to preach and information.
It's a total non-argument creating wrongdoing were there is none!
In fact most anti-witness arguments are about creating doubt and wrongdoing were there is none!
Is it wrong to have access to government agencies to further preaching work? Paul showed this was okay!
Is it a failing to make mistakes and be imperfect? No! The bible shows this is the reality until Armageddon.
We shouldn't use bible prophecy and if we do it is wrong to make mistakes on it! Nope! The bible says God's people absolutely will use bible prophecy and constantly need refining on it!
Apostate argument play on people's gullibility!
Is that all it is - access and information? I don't think so but we only have your word for that, the WTBTS is completely silent on this.

You are right that a country can only be a member but an NGO can be an associate, just like you are an associate of the JW organisation (and not a member). To be an associate requires registration and therefore voluntary and deliberate action by the WTBTS. The WTBTS already has free access to the Government and it requires no registration through another association in order to do so. Just as Paul had access to the Government due to his citizenship, he didn't go and associate himself with another organisation made up of all types or groups (including other religious bodies or even immoral organizations).

The world's powers are changing, in recent years we have seen Middle Eastern Countries in chaos because the citizens and other countries want them to become democratic powers. My little knowledge and research tells me that the UN and OSCE have been established with the ambition of promoting democracy. This is very political and for the WTBTS to associate themselves would indicate that they are supporting democracy. No-one is arguing that democracy actually helps to establish freedom of religion (at this stage anyway) but just because one political structure is better for JWs than another (e.g. vs communism) does not make it right for them to associate themselves with it.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#15 Oct 3, 2012
Blue Danube wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that all it is - access and information? I don't think so but we only have your word for that, the WTBTS is completely silent on this.
You are right that a country can only be a member but an NGO can be an associate, just like you are an associate of the JW organisation (and not a member). To be an associate requires registration and therefore voluntary and deliberate action by the WTBTS. The WTBTS already has free access to the Government and it requires no registration through another association in order to do so. Just as Paul had access to the Government due to his citizenship, he didn't go and associate himself with another organisation made up of all types or groups (including other religious bodies or even immoral organizations).
The world's powers are changing, in recent years we have seen Middle Eastern Countries in chaos because the citizens and other countries want them to become democratic powers. My little knowledge and research tells me that the UN and OSCE have been established with the ambition of promoting democracy. This is very political and for the WTBTS to associate themselves would indicate that they are supporting democracy. No-one is arguing that democracy actually helps to establish freedom of religion (at this stage anyway) but just because one political structure is better for JWs than another (e.g. vs communism) does not make it right for them to associate themselves with it.
The WTS's involvement with the OSCE is respecting religious persecution upon Jehovah's Witnesses in various nations.

Their appeals for protection from such persecution is no different from Apostle Paul appealing to Caesar for protection from religious persecution by the nation of Israel.

In fact the United Nations is seen by Jehovah's Witnesses as the modern day equivalent to the Roman Empire so the analogy is virtually perfect.

Since: Oct 10

Homebush, Australia

#16 Oct 3, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
The WTS's involvement with the OSCE is respecting religious persecution upon Jehovah's Witnesses in various nations.
Their appeals for protection from such persecution is no different from Apostle Paul appealing to Caesar for protection from religious persecution by the nation of Israel.
In fact the United Nations is seen by Jehovah's Witnesses as the modern day equivalent to the Roman Empire so the analogy is virtually perfect.
wrong, they joined because of access to a library card, that is what they say, now your making up elaberate excuses.

Can you show me any magazine, letter anything that supports what you have said.

To bad they didn't think of that when my brothers were being murdered, raped and tortured in Malawii.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#17 Oct 3, 2012
jace wrote:
The wt calls it Going Down to Eygpt.
That refers to POLITICAL involvement. That is NOT what the WTS is doing.

Jace & Co will now seek to confuse the issue by arguing that the WTS non-political involvement is actually political by stretching the definition of "political" as far as they can.

They will also post volumes of quotes that superficially may look like they are relevant but in each case the difference between POLITICAL involvement and involvement as a SUBJECT to their authority will be fuzzed over in order to deceive.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#18 Oct 3, 2012
array wrote:
<quoted text>wrong, they joined because of access to a library card, that is what they say, now your making up elaberate excuses.
Can you show me any magazine, letter anything that supports what you have said.
To bad they didn't think of that when my brothers were being murdered, raped and tortured in Malawii.
We are not talking about the DPI in this thread. It is about the OSCE.

READERS, there will also be a lot of confusion because, like Ms "array" most of these posters have no idea what they are even talking about.

Since: Jun 11

Thornlie, Australia

#19 Oct 3, 2012
From Wikipedia

"1963 Resolution

In 1963 Jehovah's Witnesses adopted a Resolution establishing the official view of the United Nations. The Resolution was published in the November 15, 1963 issue of Watchtower. At 24 assemblies held throughout the year, a total of 454,977 convention attendees adopted the Resolution.

Regarding the United Nations, paragraph 5 of that resolution states, "the nations further refused the surrender of their sovereignty to God’s Messianic kingdom by setting up ... the United Nations,....This international organization stands for world sovereignty by political men. For years men without faith in God’s kingdom have endeavored to get all people to worship this international image of human political sovereignty as the best hope for earthly peace and security, in fact, the last hope for humanity. To date 111 nations have given worship to this political image by becoming members of it. However, we, as witnesses of the Sovereign God Jehovah, will continue refusing to engage in such idolatrous worship..."

Since: Oct 10

Homebush, Australia

#20 Oct 3, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
We are not talking about the DPI in this thread. It is about the OSCE.
READERS, there will also be a lot of confusion because, like Ms "array" most of these posters have no idea what they are even talking about.
oh yes I do and this has been discussed on this forum many many times.

where is the letter to the congregations from the GB as to why they are associated with the UN and why, nothing.

secrecy has a way of coming out like a can of worms, this is something they will never be able to explain to all JW, only those that worship the organization and not Jehovah like you will stand by their sneaky lies.

Since: Jun 11

Thornlie, Australia

#21 Oct 3, 2012
From the official OSCE website, this explains the relationship between the OSCE and the UN

"The OSCE recognizes that the United Nations Security Council bears primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security. Thus, the United Nations is the OSCE's primary partner organization. In 1992, the participating States declared the OSCE (at that time CSCE) to be "a regional arrangement in the sense of Chapter VIII of the Charter of the United Nations".

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 27
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Jehovah's Witness Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
"RESURRECTION"- meaningless in Churchianity! 1 min dlmacoop 384
YES- People WILL get OUT of HELL! (Nov '15) 14 min PrufSammy 4,620
Who goes to heaven? 16 min Seentheotherside 34
Equal to God! 22 min Seentheotherside 112
Let's try this again, 144,000 ONLY? No jw has b... 37 min ihveit 2,892
News Leah Remini's A&E Series May Take on Jehovah's ... 43 min Goobe 91
Reinstatement and the prodigal son. 57 min dlmacoop 8
More from around the web