How does a JW hope to stand before God?

Posted in the Jehovah's Witness Forum

First Prev
of 5
Next Last
Gotyou

Houston, TX

#1 Dec 8, 2012
The Bible stated that we all sinners. No matter how hard a person tries, he or she remains a pitiful sinner before God. AS Romans 3:10-18 point out: " There is NO ONE righteous, NOT EVEN ONE; there is no one who understands; there is no one WHO SEEKS GOD[JWs are included]. All [JWs included] have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one [not even a single JW or a Baptist] who does good., NOT EVEN ONE. Their [JWs, Baptists, Methodists ect...] throats are open graves; THEIR TONGUES practice deceit. THe poison of vipers in on THEIR LIPS...".

So in view of Romans 3, how can a sinful JW ever hope to stand in the presence of God. Would he accept to stand before God by clothing himself SOLELY in the righteousness of CHRIST? Would he accept to ever hope to stand before God with a mixture of good works and with the so-called Wathtower's righteousness? How does a JW explain Ephesians 2:8-9? How can a JW have the nerve to brague that he or she is the only one doing the works of Jehovah on earth?
Gotyou

Houston, TX

#2 Dec 8, 2012
Let's say for the sake of argument that the JEhovah's Witnesses are right on biblical doctrines. Let's say that JWs are the only ones who go door to door. Let's say that the JWs are the only people on earth who call God by His right name 'Jehovah". Let's say that JW's are right by not meddling in politics. Let's say are right by not saying superstitiously or not 'God bless you' after a person sneezes. Let's say that JWs are right by not celebrating Christmas. Let's say that JWs are right about the trinity. You know what? At the end of the day, these JWs are still pitiful sinners just like the rests of us. No matter what, these JWs are still going to fall short from the righteouness that God demanded. The question remains: How does this deluded JW hope to stand before God? By Christ and grace alone or what? Please consider Ephisians 2:8-9 or Titus 3:5 when responding to this post.

“I luv Jesus ”

Since: Oct 12

Blessed city

#3 Dec 8, 2012
that is why jesus said many tried to enter the narrow road but failed.

God searches the heart not by works.

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#4 Dec 9, 2012
as long as jws go the meetings and refuse the blood of christ at the memorial, they get to have a white robe on.

the white robe is a result of their leadership mediating for them and approving them.
apple

Singapore, Singapore

#5 Dec 9, 2012
refusing blood of christ means refusing salvation.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#6 Dec 9, 2012
apple wrote:
refusing blood of christ means refusing salvation.
Drinking wine doesn't save you.

Faith and obedience to God is what saves you on the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Jesus said that only those in the New Covenant should drink the wine. Not all Christians are in the New Covenant.

The New Covenant is a special arrangement to form a heavenly government to rule over the earth.

Most Christians will live on the earth being ruled over by that heavenly government.

So only a few Christians will go to heaven the rest will live forever on peaceful earth.

Listen to God and Live Forever
http://download.jw.org/files/media_books/ll_E...

What Does the Bible Really Teach?
http://download.jw.org/files/media_books/bh_E...

The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived
http://download.jw.org/files/media_books/gt_E...

“Delivering the Gospel”

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#7 Dec 9, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Drinking wine doesn't save you.
Faith and obedience to God is what saves you on the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
Jesus said that only those in the New Covenant should drink the wine. Not all Christians are in the New Covenant.
The New Covenant is a special arrangement to form a heavenly government to rule over the earth.
Most Christians will live on the earth being ruled over by that heavenly government.
So only a few Christians will go to heaven the rest will live forever on peaceful earth.
Listen to God and Live Forever
http://download.jw.org/files/media_books/ll_E...
What Does the Bible Really Teach?
http://download.jw.org/files/media_books/bh_E...
The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived
http://download.jw.org/files/media_books/gt_E...
What's your comments on the first two post?
apple

Singapore, Singapore

#8 Dec 9, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Drinking wine doesn't save you.
Faith and obedience to God is what saves you on the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
Jesus said that only those in the New Covenant should drink the wine. Not all Christians are in the New Covenant.
The New Covenant is a special arrangement to form a heavenly government to rule over the earth.
Most Christians will live on the earth being ruled over by that heavenly government.
So only a few Christians will go to heaven the rest will live forever on peaceful earth.
Listen to God and Live Forever
http://download.jw.org/files/media_books/ll_E...
What Does the Bible Really Teach?
http://download.jw.org/files/media_books/bh_E...
The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived
http://download.jw.org/files/media_books/gt_E...
you mean jws are not under new convenant? whom cannot drink wine?

“Delivering the Gospel”

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#9 Dec 9, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Faith and obedience to God is what saves you on the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
If you have faith,you'll be obedient.Obedience is not a requirement for salvation.

Please notice the word "only."

Gal.2:16 [nwt]
knowing as we do that a man is declared righteous, not due to works of law, BUT ONLY THROUGH FAITH toward Christ Jesus, even we have put our faith in Christ Jesus, that we may be declared righteous due to faith toward Christ, and not due to works of law, because due to works of law no flesh will be declared righteous

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#10 Dec 9, 2012
Christian Trucker wrote:
<quoted text>If you have faith,you'll be obedient.Obedience is not a requirement for salvation.
Faith does NOT force people to be obedient.

The Bible clearly instructs us to make every effort to be obedient even though we have faith.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#11 Dec 9, 2012
apple wrote:
<quoted text>
you mean jws are not under new convenant? whom cannot drink wine?
Some JWs are in the New Covenant and those ones drink the wine.

It is between God and each individual to know if they are chosen to rule in heaven, or if they are to live upon the earth like God originally intended.

“Delivering the Gospel”

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#12 Dec 9, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>The Bible clearly instructs us to make every effort to be obedient even though we have faith.
True but it is not a requirement FOR salvation.

“Delivering the Gospel”

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#13 Dec 9, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Faith does NOT force people to be obedient.
I didn't say that,you did.

Btw,still waiting for your comments on the first two post.
UNchained

Maryville, TN

#14 Dec 9, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Drinking wine doesn't save you.
Faith and obedience to God is what saves you on the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
Jesus said that only those in the New Covenant should drink the wine. Not all Christians are in the New Covenant.
The New Covenant is a special arrangement to form a heavenly government to rule over the earth.
Most Christians will live on the earth being ruled over by that heavenly government.
So only a few Christians will go to heaven the rest will live forever on peaceful earth.
Listen to God and Live Forever
http://download.jw.org/files/media_books/ll_E...
What Does the Bible Really Teach?
http://download.jw.org/files/media_books/bh_E...
The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived
http://download.jw.org/files/media_books/gt_E...
Gareth sez:

"Not all Christians are in the New Covenant."

EXACTLY WHERE does the bible say that?

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#15 Dec 9, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Some JWs are in the New Covenant and those ones drink the wine.
It is between God and each individual to know if they are chosen to rule in heaven, or if they are to live upon the earth like God originally intended.
really?.... where in the bible does it say christians have that choice?..... last time i checked you are either a part of the body of christ, or you are not a christian.... if you discern the word of god, you are hearing the calling of it.

by the way..... i don't mind if you don't want to be a christian, just don't invent a secondary christian group, before armageddon.
Pat

Rockford, IL

#16 Dec 9, 2012
For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
I GUESS if Christ did not die to set one free from sin and if they are not called by his name then they are not under the new covenant but they are also not saved or a part of God's family , and therefore cannot approach God have no savior and are under wrath not grace , so those who teach and believe the new covenant does not apply to them then neither does salvation .When these people stand before God they stand without a savior , they have no mediator and they have no advocate , their choice maybe they plan on being able to save themselves , good luck .
Pat

Rockford, IL

#17 Dec 9, 2012
The new covenant was ratified through the blood of Jesus Christ. Not only did his death pay for our sins, it also ended the old covenant and began the new. When we drink the wine in commemoration of Jesus' death, we show our acceptance of the new covenant, including the forgiveness that is given because of his shed blood.
By saying the new covenant does not apply to all JW have rejected what Christ did at Calvary and are rejecting , not accepting his sacrifice or the ability to have sins forgiven .Again THEIR CHOICE but they must accept the consequences of that choice .

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#18 Dec 9, 2012
Christian Trucker wrote:
<quoted text>True but it is not a requirement FOR salvation.
Yes it is.

Not that we achieve obedience, but that we strive to be obedient:

**** Matt 7:21 Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

NOTE: "he who FOES THE WILL of my Father"

Quite clear.

*** Rom 2:5 But according to your hardness and unrepentant heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath, revelation, and of the righteous judgment of God;

*** Rom 2:6 who "will pay back to everyone according to their works:"

*** Rom 2:7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory, honor, and incorruptibility, eternal life;

*** Rom 2:8 but to those who are self-seeking, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, will be wrath and indignation,

*** Rom 2:9 oppression and anguish, on every soul of man who works evil, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Quite clear.
unlisted

Greensboro, NC

#19 Dec 9, 2012
oh please gareth.... go find the Lord... stop the nonsense. you will never be saved unless you go get baptized. until then your words mean nothing.

“Delivering the Gospel”

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#20 Dec 9, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes it is.
Not that we achieve obedience, but that we strive to be obedient:
**** Matt 7:21 Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
NOTE: "he who FOES THE WILL of my Father"
And his will is that one BELIEVES!

John 6:40 [nkjv]

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and BELIVES in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Now go back and read the context of Matt.7.

Those people were trying to get saved by THEIR good works just like you.

Verse 22 would read like this today.

Many will say in that day,Lord,Lord,did we [jws] not preach in your name,and go out in field service,and perform many good works in your name,and go to the Kingdom hall everytime the doors were open.

What's missing? The BLOOD! My believing in his shed blood ALONE for my salvation is my hope.

Heb.9:22 [nwt]
Yes,nearly all things are cleansed by the BLOOD according to the law,and UNLESS BLOOD is poured out NO FORGIVENESS takes place.

Now go back to Matt.7 and show me just where THEY said ANYTHING about him dying for them.Remember NO blood,NO forgiveness.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 5
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Jehovah's Witness Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Gareth will LIE TO YOU 8 min Arkham Bravo 61
Christmas (Nov '13) 12 min Think about this 1,864
Amber Scorah on Leaving the Witness in Shanghai 15 min little lamb 4
YES-Jesus WAS once known as Michael 22 min dee lightful 1,368
Disfellowshiped for partaking of the emblems 35 min medioguarddia 202
More Changes Coming 46 min Maravilla 352
JW.org opened my eyes to the truth 50 min array 321
Will Becoming a JW Lead to Happiness? 1 hr SOS 57
More from around the web