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paul skin back

Camden, Australia

#1 Sep 24, 2012
has any one seen that the jw clan has been sued for child molestation , they allow people in that have been known to do this type of thing,, i was a jw once in england, and there was this "brother" who was convicted of rape of his own child, the congregation he came from or the one in my town never imformed anyone of his past history,, i never knew until he left the clan, after he married one of my mates wife and she would call me up to go to her house and be with txxxxxx, because hes "not very good with my kids" so she could go out with her friends, turns out he had a court order on him that she knew about , it wasn't till my mate who was married to this woman, told me his son who was about 5 or 6 at the time told him that "txxxxx tried to get in my bed with me last night" shortly after this happened txxxxxx , was on his toes and took off.

Since: Jan 09

The lost city of Shangri La

#2 Sep 24, 2012
Fuzzy hearsay from many years in the past rarely deserves to get taken at face value, at least not without a lot more detail.

I'll ask you the same questions that any attorney would ask if such an issue went before a jury:

Who is they?

Allowed in where? In public? Do Kingdom Halls require background checks before a new person can enter the building?

Convicted when? On what formal charges? What were the circumstances? What were the pleas? What was the evidence?

How do you know who knew what and at what time? Can you read minds?

You said that your mate told you his son told him that Mr. X tried to get in bed with him. How long ago was this? Did you report this to police? Did your mate? What was the result? Any arrests? Charges? Trials? Jail?

What do the elders in the congregation have to do with the actions of this man? What does Watchtower have to do with it? Was there any fiduciary duty owed to plaintiff? Did any of the alleged abuse happen during officially sanctioned Watchtower events? Was the accused an agent of Watchtower at the time of the abuse?

You see these are all questions that you really need to answer before a rational person can start taking your allegations seriously.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#3 Sep 24, 2012
Tears of Oberon wrote:
Fuzzy hearsay from many years in the past rarely deserves to get taken at face value, at least not without a lot more detail.
I'll ask you the same questions that any attorney would ask if such an issue went before a jury:
Who is they?
Allowed in where? In public? Do Kingdom Halls require background checks before a new person can enter the building?
Convicted when? On what formal charges? What were the circumstances? What were the pleas? What was the evidence?
How do you know who knew what and at what time? Can you read minds?
You said that your mate told you his son told him that Mr. X tried to get in bed with him. How long ago was this? Did you report this to police? Did your mate? What was the result? Any arrests? Charges? Trials? Jail?
What do the elders in the congregation have to do with the actions of this man? What does Watchtower have to do with it? Was there any fiduciary duty owed to plaintiff? Did any of the alleged abuse happen during officially sanctioned Watchtower events? Was the accused an agent of Watchtower at the time of the abuse?
You see these are all questions that you really need to answer before a rational person can start taking your allegations seriously.
.
. Only if that so called rational person ..is a Lawyer..( blood and eyeballs in the gutter and YOU without a spoon )
non-JW

Santiago, Chile

#4 Sep 25, 2012
Tears of Oberon wrote:
Fuzzy hearsay from many years in the past rarely deserves to get taken at face value, at least not without a lot more detail.
I'll ask you the same questions that any attorney would ask if such an issue went before a jury:
Who is they?
Allowed in where? In public? Do Kingdom Halls require background checks before a new person can enter the building?
Convicted when? On what formal charges? What were the circumstances? What were the pleas? What was the evidence?
How do you know who knew what and at what time? Can you read minds?
You said that your mate told you his son told him that Mr. X tried to get in bed with him. How long ago was this? Did you report this to police? Did your mate? What was the result? Any arrests? Charges? Trials? Jail?
What do the elders in the congregation have to do with the actions of this man? What does Watchtower have to do with it? Was there any fiduciary duty owed to plaintiff? Did any of the alleged abuse happen during officially sanctioned Watchtower events? Was the accused an agent of Watchtower at the time of the abuse?
You see these are all questions that you really need to answer before a rational person can start taking your allegations seriously.
On this forum who knows. It is not an official record.

However, the official record on this matter does exist. Do you deny that too?

“Bustin' Myths”

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#5 Sep 25, 2012
Tears of Oberon wrote:
Fuzzy hearsay from many years in the past rarely deserves to get taken at face value, at least not without a lot more detail.
I'll ask you the same questions that any attorney would ask if such an issue went before a jury:
Who is they?
Allowed in where? In public? Do Kingdom Halls require background checks before a new person can enter the building?
Convicted when? On what formal charges? What were the circumstances? What were the pleas? What was the evidence?
How do you know who knew what and at what time? Can you read minds?
You said that your mate told you his son told him that Mr. X tried to get in bed with him. How long ago was this? Did you report this to police? Did your mate? What was the result? Any arrests? Charges? Trials? Jail?
What do the elders in the congregation have to do with the actions of this man? What does Watchtower have to do with it? Was there any fiduciary duty owed to plaintiff? Did any of the alleged abuse happen during officially sanctioned Watchtower events? Was the accused an agent of Watchtower at the time of the abuse?
You see these are all questions that you really need to answer before a rational person can start taking your allegations seriously.
Google Candice Conti
paul skin back

Camden, Australia

#6 Sep 25, 2012
yes he was convicted, have you read about the case in America ,,, elders covered up this wrong doing,,,,, but you are probably a jw and not allowed to read these things ,,,,, brain washed bunch of people,,,,, look it up its there in black and white,,,, dont get all high and mighty with me with your silly questions,,, if it was not a jw that i knew you would convict him yourself with no trial

Since: Jan 09

The lost city of Shangri La

#7 Sep 25, 2012
paul skin back wrote:
yes he was convicted, have you read about the case in America ,,, elders covered up this wrong doing,,,,, but you are probably a jw and not allowed to read these things ,,,,, brain washed bunch of people,,,,, look it up its there in black and white,,,, dont get all high and mighty with me with your silly questions,,, if it was not a jw that i knew you would convict him yourself with no trial
Ok...what case?? It is really hard to look up records when you dont give names or locations or references. I am not psychic.

Since: Jan 09

The lost city of Shangri La

#8 Sep 25, 2012
P.s and no I would not convict ANYONE without a trial or sufficient evidence, JW or not. Only the crazy anti JW crowd here does that.
paul skin back

Camden, Australia

#9 Sep 25, 2012
Tears of oderon,,,,, u still not read the Candice conti case have you,,,,,let me know your views on that,,,, bet you dont answer

Since: Jan 09

The lost city of Shangri La

#10 Sep 25, 2012
paul skin back wrote:
Tears of oderon,,,,, u still not read the Candice conti case have you,,,,,let me know your views on that,,,, bet you dont answer
I have several thousand pages of court documents from the Conti case on my hard drive, thank you very much. We have also been discussing the case on these forums for months now. You are the one who needs to catch up.

Now back to the more basic question: where are the documents for the case you cite in your original post? What court did it take place in? At what time? Who were the plaintiffs and defendants?

You are the one who started this thread with claims of abuse, so back it up with something more than just empty words.
little lamb

Australia

#11 Sep 25, 2012
I believe it is a case where someone relates a personal experience..and on these forums just has to be taken at face value.

The point is this when you go to a Kingdom hall..God says in his word "when going to the house of the true God, let there be a going to hear , rather then to give sacrifices as the stupid ones"

That means going to meeting should be about going to listen to the WORD of GOD

Nowhere has God said that going to a meeting means putting your trust in earthling man who goes there.

So nobody is ever told to leave their common sense at home and just put faith in any person because he calls himself a witness...Thats where all these problems stem from..putting trust in earthling man, with whom there is no salvation .

In fact scripture states " CURSED is the able-bodied man who makes flesh his arm"

So as people put their trust more and more in religious leaders instead of Jehovah God himself..is it any wonder that these terrible things happen to their children..because of wrong mis-applied TRUST .

Jesus teaches " be on your guard against MEN," they will persecute you and deliver you up to trial and apparently some will mess with your kid
UNchained

Kingsport, TN

#12 Sep 25, 2012
little lamb wrote:
I believe it is a case where someone relates a personal experience..and on these forums just has to be taken at face value.

The point is this when you go to a Kingdom hall..God says in his word "when going to the house of the true God, let there be a going to hear , rather then to give sacrifices as the stupid ones"

That means going to meeting should be about going to listen to the WORD of GOD
You don't listen to the Word of God during a meeting at the kingdom hall, you listen to apostates who teach false doctrines.

Since: Jan 09

The lost city of Shangri La

#13 Sep 25, 2012
little lamb wrote:
I believe it is a case where someone relates a personal experience..and on these forums just has to be taken at face value.
The point is this when you go to a Kingdom hall..God says in his word...
Again, you are sorely mistake. We do not *have* to take anything on these forums at face value. In fact, I would call it a terrible idea to take anything you read here at face value.

If you want a claim to be believed and accepted as true, then you need to actually offer evidence to support your claim, whether your claim involves child abuse or bubble gum theft. Those who refuse to believe you due to lack of evidence commit no wrong.

The rest of your post is nothing but negative value judgments and disagreement over religious doctrine. I care not for any of that, because it has nothing to do with the original post of this thread.
little lamb

Australia

#14 Sep 25, 2012
Tears of Oberon wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, you are sorely mistake. We do not *have* to take anything on these forums at face value. In fact, I would call it a terrible idea to take anything you read here at face value.
If you want a claim to be believed and accepted as true, then you need to actually offer evidence to support your claim, whether your claim involves child abuse or bubble gum theft. Those who refuse to believe you due to lack of evidence commit no wrong.
The rest of your post is nothing but negative value judgments and disagreement over religious doctrine. I care not for any of that, because it has nothing to do with the original post of this thread.
Thats alright you are entitled to your opinion..The poster made no claim on anyones name..
Although like Adam he tried to pass the buck on to others.

it just was hearsay..In cases like that I believe it can be answered by bringing it back to personal responsibility

It doesn't need a great big court case to deal with it.

Its nobody else's fault but the perpetrator of a crime, and they can be found everywhere , even dear old Uncle..it just means a family is responsible for their own family and Gods word on not trusting men is valid.
little lamb

Australia

#15 Sep 25, 2012
UNchained wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't listen to the Word of God during a meeting at the kingdom hall, you listen to apostates who teach false doctrines.
Thats why we are told to 'seek the gifts of the spirit"

Discernment is a gift of the spirit.

For wherever you hear the word of God being preached, you will need discernment..because ANYONE can bring in their own false doctrine..error is not exclusive to one denomination.
UNchained

Kingsport, TN

#16 Sep 25, 2012
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Thats why we are told to 'seek the gifts of the spirit"
Discernment is a gift of the spirit.
For wherever you hear the word of God being preached, you will need discernment..because ANYONE can bring in their own false doctrine..error is not exclusive to one denomination.
Find a church that sticks to God's word without adding a lot of rules and regulations.
little lamb

Australia

#17 Sep 25, 2012
UNchained wrote:
<quoted text>
Find a church that sticks to God's word without adding a lot of rules and regulations.
Like a lot of parents are today..eh Unchained??

no guideline? do what you like just don't bother me.

' There's a flippy floppy scarecrow with a flippy floppy hat." LOL.

Got news for you.." Now you are Christs body and members individually' Don't have to look for a church because we Christians are the church.
MAMMON

United States

#18 Sep 25, 2012
My little brother was sleeping with a 27 year old fat sister when he was 15. They didn't get caught until he was 17 when my parents had to dig up and replace the septic tank and it had a bunch of condoms floating in there. They ended up having to get married to avoid getting DFed because her dad was an elder and their whole family had been in for generations. My brother was 17 and living at home so gettinging DFed while living with parents still in is horrible. You still get dragged to meetings and treated like crap so he married the woman. He stayed married until he turned 18 and I moved him in with me and he went in and dissociated himself and he never went back.

Point of the story is that 15 is under the age of consent. That sister raped my brother and was pretty much forced into marriage. The cops should of been called instead of a marriage performed. The elders DFd me with a letter in the mail because they couldn't get a hold of me when my name appeared in the local paper for being arrested for a DUI. They wanted me out as soon as I hit puberty and a new PO moved in with two daughters that were also in puberty. One of them later made the cover of Play Boy college edition. My brother would of got DFd just as quick if he hadn't agreed to marry the elders daughter who raped him.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#19 Sep 25, 2012
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Like a lot of parents are today..eh Unchained??
no guideline? do what you like just don't bother me.
' There's a flippy floppy scarecrow with a flippy floppy hat." LOL.
Got news for you.." Now you are Christs body and members individually' Don't have to look for a church because we Christians are the church.
do you agree that all what Paul wrote is true, or just some of it. Or the book of Timothy is that applicable for today to all Christians. So where do you go to overseer, reach out help the congregation, etc this does not apply in our day.

1Tim 1 You can believe that if someone is reaching out to be an Overseer, he’s looking for good work. 2 But an overseer must be [someone who] has not been charged [with misconduct], a one-woman man, moderate in habits, sensible, orderly, friendly to strangers, and a teacher; 3 not [someone who is] addicted to alcohol or headstrong, but [someone who is] willing to give in; and not a quarrelsome or greedy person. 4 [He should] take the lead in his family and have children who obey him seriously. 5 Because, if any man doesn’t know how to take the lead in his own family, how can he take care of God’s congregation? 6 He must not be a newly-converted man, for fear that he might become too proud and fall into the judgment of the Slanderer. 7 And those outside [the congregation] should also speak well of him, so he doesn’t fall into disgrace and into the Slanderer’s snare.

8 Servants [in the congregation] should also be serious, not deceitful, not excessive drinkers, and not looking for easy money, 9 but holding the mystery of the faith with a clean conscience. 10 Let them prove themselves first; then if they do well, allow them to serve.
little lamb

Australia

#20 Sep 25, 2012
array wrote:
<quoted text>do you agree that all what Paul wrote is true, or just some of it. Or the book of Timothy is that applicable for today to all Christians. So where do you go to overseer, reach out help the congregation, etc this does not apply in our day.
1Tim 1 You can believe that if someone is reaching out to be an Overseer, he’s looking for good work. 2 But an overseer must be [someone who] has not been charged [with misconduct], a one-woman man, moderate in habits, sensible, orderly, friendly to strangers, and a teacher; 3 not [someone who is] addicted to alcohol or headstrong, but [someone who is] willing to give in; and not a quarrelsome or greedy person. 4 [He should] take the lead in his family and have children who obey him seriously. 5 Because, if any man doesn’t know how to take the lead in his own family, how can he take care of God’s congregation? 6 He must not be a newly-converted man, for fear that he might become too proud and fall into the judgment of the Slanderer. 7 And those outside [the congregation] should also speak well of him, so he doesn’t fall into disgrace and into the Slanderer’s snare.
8 Servants [in the congregation] should also be serious, not deceitful, not excessive drinkers, and not looking for easy money, 9 but holding the mystery of the faith with a clean conscience. 10 Let them prove themselves first; then if they do well, allow them to serve.
Everyone who is in the new covenant mediated by Jesus Christ, is part of the BODY of Christ..and we all show our unity with Christ and each other when we although many partake of the ONE LOAF.

However your question is about Elders and overseers OUTSIDE the BODY of CHRIST..and these have no jurisdiction on the BODY of Christ

Because if you read Ephesians 4 [11-12] The whole reason God gives shepherds and teachers and evangelisers is for ' BUILDING up the BODY of Christ..

which is what you majority of witnesses and Elders and overseers in your organization don't believe you are , in the first place..seeing none of you partake of the ONE LOAF; the Bread at the memorial.

You are just an organization of people, outsiders, hoping that by associating with nine men in America, who say they are the BODY that this gives you and your Leasers that don't confess union with Christ at the memorial, some sort of authority over the rest of us who DISCERN the BODY..it doesn't

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