New $10 million JW Assembly Hall

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#1663 Apr 6, 2013
Dee, you said I never introduced hell into a post to you. I did, and checked. If you go back a few posts, you will see I did bring it up prior to this.
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus never told people to do their own thing. He told others to follow him. He gave instructions (that's part of being in an organization).
Without getting too personal, dee, the idea that the rich man was very, very uncomfortable in Hades is a parable, a teaching mechanism, and not what happens in HELL. To say that someone literally burns after death in VERY GRAVE (pun intended) discomfort is a lie. Jesus gave a parable, an illustration. NO ONE BURNS IN HELL in conscious torment literally. That is one of the worst distortions that false teachers have presented, far worse than setting wrong dates, or expectations. Far more. The burning hell is in people's minds, on earth, set there false teachers led along by Satan.
When Jesus died, he went to HELL. He died. He gave up his life. He got his life BACK, he took it back, resumed it. His father gave him this authority, or right to do so. Various voices have told contradictory claims about biblical subjects, some true, some not true. There's is a very disorganized haze, nevertheless even hazes are organized.
Hell cannot be a literal fiery place of torment where the wicked suffer after death. If I go to hell, I will not suffer during that time, because God promises me a resurrection to life. And he will not leave me in hell, just as he did not leave Jesus in hell. And I am a follower of Jesus Christ, the messiah and king. The Bible says,“Neither was [Jesus] forsaken in Hades [hell, King James Version] nor did his flesh see corruption.”(Acts 2:31) He was not forsaken in hell, but he surely went there. That means he died. The Bible states,“I handed on to you . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; and that he was buried, yes, that he has been raised up the third day according to the Scriptures.”(1 Corinthians 15:3, 4) So Jesus gave up his life for his followers, his sheep, he was in hell for three days, hell - the grave or 'pit,' but he was not abandoned there, for he was raised up, resurrected.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#1664 Apr 6, 2013
Pam wrote:
Also, let's seewhat hell is as an English word for real.
The modern English word Hell is derived from Old English hel, helle (about 725 AD to refer to a nether world of the dead) reaching into the Anglo-Saxon pagan period, and ultimately from Proto-Germanic *halja, meaning "one who covers up or hides something".[1] The word has cognates in related Germanic languages such as Old Frisian helle, hille, Old Saxon hellja, Middle Dutch helle (modern Dutch hel), Old High German helle (Modern German Hölle), Danish, Norwegian and Swedish "helvede"/helvete (hel + Old Norse vitti, "punishment" whence the Icelandic víti "hell"), and Gothic halja.[1] Subsequently, the word was used to transfer a pagan concept to Christian theology and its vocabulary[1](however, for the Judeo-Christian origin of the concept see Gehenna).
The English word hell has been theorized as being derived from Old Norse hel[1] but the cognate does appear in all the other languages and has a Proto-Germanic origin.[2] Among other sources, the Poetic Edda, compiled from earlier traditional sources in the 13th century, and the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson, provide information regarding the beliefs of the Norse pagans, including a being named Hel, who is described as ruling over an underworld location of the same name.
Do you agree or disagree and please4 ste your reasons why.
There are many points in the above that I agree with and where the word hell came from.
Interestingly, I am using the Bible right now to explain more about hell and how it is used. It is not an "easy" subject to explore for me because it can get quite detailed. The word hell is a translation sometimes used from the Hebrew word sheol and the Greek word hades. Yes, in many ways hell is used to signify a "covering up," as the expression "helling potatoes" was used to demonstrate they were burying them, not roasting them.

But getting on to the King James usage of the word hell, as I understand it, it is rendered as hell approximately 31 times from sheol, and from hades 10 times. Sometimes, however, in its rendering sheol is also translated as grave and pit. To sum up for now: hell - sheol (Hebrew), or Hades (Haides, Greek). Sheol has also been rendered as grave, and pit in the same version of the Bible (King James). We can look up each time the word is used in a Bible website such as bible.cc or biblestudytools if you'd like.

Regardless of what happens in hell right now, the facts are that the Hebrew word sheol has been translated as grave, pit, and hell.
Let's leave it there for tonight.
Snorkler

Port Elizabeth, South Africa

#1665 Apr 7, 2013
The Real Karen wrote:
<quoted text>
I want to thank you for the love you show me Snorkler. Now ask yourself, is this the way the Lord told us to handle one another. I will pull a Boni trick, did I actually call you childish, or am I saying your actions, behavior are childish?
Did Jesus hate the Pharisees and Sribes , did the Lord call the Pharisees and Scribes Hypocrits ?

BTW , are you telling me that you are in fact Little miss perfect seeing that you object to me saying you are not ?
Snorkler

Port Elizabeth, South Africa

#1666 Apr 7, 2013
The Real Karen wrote:
<quoted text>
Shame, Shame. Is this another one of those, do as I say, not as I do things?
Its just another way of saying he is a Huge Nut .

When did i object to you calling me a Nut ?
Snorkler

Port Elizabeth, South Africa

#1667 Apr 7, 2013
jackie wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you Snorkler.
You welcome .
dr fill

Medinah, IL

#1668 Apr 7, 2013
Snorkler wrote:
<quoted text>
Did Jesus hate the Pharisees and Sribes , did the Lord call the Pharisees and Scribes Hypocrits ?
BTW , are you telling me that you are in fact Little miss perfect seeing that you object to me saying you are not ?
Jesus said be ware of cults with mind control and colorful pamphlets that hide their true intentions.Wow!!! Thats the wt.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#1669 Apr 7, 2013
Snorkler wrote:
<quoted text>
Did Jesus hate the Pharisees and Sribes , did the Lord call the Pharisees and Scribes Hypocrits ?
BTW , are you telling me that you are in fact Little miss perfect seeing that you object to me saying you are not ?
Are you telling me that Michelle is a coconut?

Again you are not Jesus, or a Pharisees, or a Scribe. The Lord expects us to treat one another with love, there is no love in calling someone a hypocrite or any other names.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#1670 Apr 7, 2013
Snorkler wrote:
<quoted text> Its just another way of saying he is a Huge Nut .
When did i object to you calling me a Nut ?
Are you a nut? You will answer no, then I will tell you I am not a hypocrite either. I believe the bible, if what I say makes me a hypocrite, then so is the bible in your eyes. I never told you that you HAD to go to the website, if I had, then yes I would be a hypocrite, but I just posted it, and gave you the option of going or not.
wilson

Birmingham, AL

#1671 Apr 7, 2013
dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> Pam you are way over miseracord's head.She no doubt will ignore your post and divert to something else.
I won't ignore it. Pam is wrong!
Let's take a good, long look at the subject and see what is above who's head - OK?
HELL:
A word used in the King James Version (as well as in the Catholic Douay Version and most older translations) to translate the Hebrew she&#700;ohl&#8242; and the Greek hai&#8242;des.
.
In the King James Version the word “hell” is rendered from she&#700;ohl&#8242; 31 times and from hai&#8242;des 10 times. This version is not consistent, however, since she&#700;ohl&#8242; is also translated 31 times “grave” and 3 times “pit.”
In the Douay Version she&#700;ohl&#8242; is rendered “hell” 64 times,“pit” once, and “death” once.
.
In 1885, with the publication of the complete English Revised Version, the original word she&#700;ohl&#8242; was in many places transliterated into the English text of the Hebrew Scriptures, though, in most occurrences,“grave” and “pit” were used, and “hell” is found some 14 times.
.
This was a point on which the American committee disagreed with the British revisers, and so, when producing the American Standard Version (1901) they transliterated she&#700;ohl&#8242; in all 65 of its appearances.
.
Both versions transliterated hai&#8242;des in the Christian Greek Scriptures in all ten of its occurrences, though the Greek word Ge&#8242;en·na (English,“Gehenna”) is rendered “hell” throughout, as is true of many other modern translations.
.
Concerning this use of “hell” to translate these original words from the Hebrew and Greek, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (1981, Vol. 2, p. 187) says:
“HADES . . . It corresponds to ‘Sheol’ in the O.T.[Old Testament]. In the A.V. of the O.T.[Old Testament] and N.T.[New Testament], it has been unhappily rendered ‘Hell.’”
Collier’s Encyclopedia (1986, Vol. 12, p. 28) says concerning “Hell”:
“First it stands for the Hebrew Sheol of the Old Testament and the Greek Had'es of the Septuagint and New Testament. Since Sheol in Old Testament times referred simply to the abode of the dead and suggested no moral distinctions, the word ‘hell,’ as understood today, is not a happy translation.”
.
It is, in fact, because of the way that the word “hell” is understood today that it is such an unsatisfactory translation of these original Bible words.
Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, unabridged, under “Hell” says:
“fr[om]. . . helan to conceal.” The word “hell” thus originally conveyed no thought of heat or torment but simply of a ‘covered over or concealed place.’ In the old English dialect the expression “helling potatoes” meant, not to roast them, but simply to place the potatoes in the ground or in a cellar."

Continuing:
wilson

Birmingham, AL

#1672 Apr 7, 2013
Continuing:

"The meaning given today to the word “hell” is that portrayed in Dante’s Divine Comedy and Milton’s Paradise Lost, which meaning is completely foreign to the original definition of the word. The idea of a “hell” of fiery torment, however, dates back long before Dante or Milton. The Grolier Universal Encyclopedia (1971, Vol. 9, p. 205) under “Hell” says:“Hindus and Buddhists regard hell as a place of spiritual cleansing and final restoration. Islamic tradition considers it as a place of everlasting punishment.” The idea of suffering after death is found among the pagan religious teachings of ancient peoples in Babylon and Egypt. Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs depicted the “nether world . . . as a place full of horrors,. . . presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” Although ancient Egyptian religious texts do not teach that the burning of any individual victim would go on forever, they do portray the “Other World” as featuring “pits of fire” for “the damned.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, by Morris Jastrow, Jr., 1898, p. 581; The Book of the Dead, with introduction by E. Wallis Budge, 1960, pp. 135, 144, 149, 151, 153, 161, 200.
“Hellfire” has been a basic teaching in Christendom for many centuries. It is understandable why The Encyclopedia Americana (1956, Vol. XIV, p. 81) said:“Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception.” Nevertheless, such transliteration and consistent rendering does enable the Bible student to make an accurate comparison of the texts in which these original words appear and, with open mind, thereby to arrive at a correct understanding of their true significance."
(Insight vol. 1 p. 1087)

Definitely a false doctrine with origins in paganism.
wilson

Birmingham, AL

#1673 Apr 7, 2013
dr fill wrote:
<quoted text> Jesus said be ware of cults with mind control and colorful pamphlets that hide their true intentions.Wow!!! Thats the wt.
Jesus said that?

Where?
I have a feeling you cannot show that to me in scripture.
Why try to add to the Bible?

Since: Jan 13

Marlinton, WV

#1674 Apr 7, 2013
wilson wrote:
Definitely a false doctrine with origins in paganism.

"Where the worm never dies and the fire never goes out"- Jesus Christ
wilson

Birmingham, AL

#1675 Apr 7, 2013
The Real Karen wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you telling me that Michelle is a coconut?
Again you are not Jesus, or a Pharisees, or a Scribe. The Lord expects us to treat one another with love, there is no love in calling someone a hypocrite or any other names.
Why reduce the discussion to petty quarreling name-calling?
All parties guilty of this transgression are actually childish.

“.&#8239;.&#8239;.Let all malicious bitterness and anger and wrath and screaming and abusive speech be taken away from YOU along with all badness. 32&#8239;But become kind to one another, tenderly compassionate, freely forgiving one another just as God also by Christ freely forgave YOU.”(Ephesians 4:31, 32)

Sheeesh!
wilson

Birmingham, AL

#1676 Apr 7, 2013
sick of the cult wrote:
wilson wrote:
Definitely a false doctrine with origins in paganism.
"Where the worm never dies and the fire never goes out"- Jesus Christ
Do you actually believe that God has given the free gift of everlasting life to worms?

In Scripture, fire is used in symbolic ways.
For instance:

"Fire or expressions having the thought of burning, or flaming, are figuratively associated with love (Ca 8:6), passion (Ro 1:27; 1Co 7:9), anger and judgment (Zep 2:2; Mal 4:1), or strong emotion (Lu 24:32; 2Co 11:29).
.
When Jeremiah wanted to refrain from speaking Jehovah’s word, he found this impossible, for it proved to be like a burning fire shut up in his bones.(Jer 20:9)
.
The Scriptures refer to Jehovah as a consuming fire because of his cleanness, purity, and insistence on exclusive devotion, as well as the fact that he annihilates those who set themselves in opposition to him.(De 4:24; 9:3) His ardor and rage burn like fire, and his “tongue” and word are like a fire.(Ps 79:5; 89:46; Isa 30:27; Jer 23:29)
.
Moreover, Jehovah makes his angelic ministers a devouring fire, and by the fire of his zeal “the earth” will be devoured.—Ps 104:1, 4; Zep 3:8; see also Da 7:9, 10.
.
Testing, refining, purging.“The messenger of the covenant” is compared to a refiner’s fire, a fire used in purifying gold and silver. Hence, Jehovah’s fiery testing of “the sons of Levi” by the messenger of the covenant brings about their cleansing.(Mal 3:1-3.)
.
A test by fire also reveals the quality of a material, as pointed out by the apostle Paul when emphasizing the importance of building on Jesus Christ with fire-resistant materials.— 1Co 3:10-15.
(Insight vol. pp. 833-834)
.
Misquoting Scripture is deadly.
Careful Bible study reveals all these things.

Since: Jan 13

Marlinton, WV

#1677 Apr 7, 2013
Wilson try as you might to prove yourself a theologian, argue with the Christ not me. He said it.
wilson

Birmingham, AL

#1678 Apr 7, 2013
sick of the cult wrote:
Wilson try as you might to prove yourself a theologian, argue with the Christ not me. He said it.
You really think that Jesus was talking about immortal worms that can resist fire?
.
What would be their purpose?
.
How would they fit in with Jehovah's purpose of mankind's redemption and restoration of paradise?
.
“Jesus said to them:“Truly I say to YOU, In the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down upon his glorious throne, YOU who have followed me will also yourselves sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone that has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive many times more and will inherit everlasting life.”(Matthew 19:28, 29)
dee lightful

Stanley, NC

#1679 Apr 7, 2013
wilson wrote:
Continuing:
"The meaning given today to the word “hell” is that portrayed in Dante’s Divine Comedy and Milton’s Paradise Lost, which meaning is completely foreign to the original definition of the word. The idea of a “hell” of fiery torment, however, dates back long before Dante or Milton. The Grolier Universal Encyclopedia (1971, Vol. 9, p. 205) under “Hell” says:“Hindus and Buddhists regard hell as a place of spiritual cleansing and final restoration. Islamic tradition considers it as a place of everlasting punishment.” The idea of suffering after death is found among the pagan religious teachings of ancient peoples in Babylon and Egypt. Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs depicted the “nether world . . . as a place full of horrors,. . . presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” Although ancient Egyptian religious texts do not teach that the burning of any individual victim would go on forever, they do portray the “Other World” as featuring “pits of fire” for “the damned.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, by Morris Jastrow, Jr., 1898, p. 581; The Book of the Dead, with introduction by E. Wallis Budge, 1960, pp. 135, 144, 149, 151, 153, 161, 200.
“Hellfire” has been a basic teaching in Christendom for many centuries. It is understandable why The Encyclopedia Americana (1956, Vol. XIV, p. 81) said:“Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception.” Nevertheless, such transliteration and consistent rendering does enable the Bible student to make an accurate comparison of the texts in which these original words appear and, with open mind, thereby to arrive at a correct understanding of their true significance."
(Insight vol. 1 p. 1087)
Definitely a false doctrine with origins in paganism.
That is the reason people need to be on the same page and use the same definition for hell before you can even discuss it properly.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#1680 Apr 7, 2013
JW is clearly an unBlibical cult, without salvation, doomed to the eternal fire.

“John 4:23,24”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#1681 Apr 7, 2013
sick of the cult wrote:
wilson wrote:
Definitely a false doctrine with origins in paganism.
"Where the worm never dies and the fire never goes out"- Jesus Christ
Nothing about people never dying in hell or Gehenna.
dr fill

Medinah, IL

#1682 Apr 7, 2013
wilson wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus said that?
Where?
I have a feeling you cannot show that to me in scripture.
Why try to add to the Bible?
Kind of like how the GB added the name "Jehovah" to their bible hah?

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