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“Make sure of all things”

Since: Jul 10

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#21
Oct 25, 2010
 
partydelights wrote:
Any ex-Elders around?
Pls comment what really goes on when YOU are called in to such Elder's meetings (esp. after receipt of 1991 revision).
Marvin Shilmer claims to be a CURRENT elder. He could answer.

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#22
Oct 26, 2010
 
From post number 20[1]:
StandFirm wrote:
They have every right to determine use of a book THEY wrote. If they want it kept confidential that is their right.
You miss the point. Your response smacks of idolatry because it gasps as though an answer to a question that is not asked, and this is done in defense of Watchtower’s choice as though it was a substantive one.

I have not asked whether Watchtower has a right to publish a book and keep it from a wider readership. In other words, my question asks why Watchtower would exercise this prerogative in relation to its new 2010 “elders only” book.

-- WHY NOT give opportunity to everyone to read Watchtower’s new 2010 “elders only” book?

You don’t touch the actual question asked because you can’t find an answer that maintains your idol of choice on the pedestal you have placed it.

Marvin Shilmer
marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
__________
References:

1. Post No. 20: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

“ALLEZ MONTREAL!”

Since: Dec 06

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#23
Oct 26, 2010
 

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Some relevant facts that the liar and pimp who started the thread has obfuscated; first, he refers to the publication as the "Elder Only [Watchtower] Book." [1] The book is a publication by the JW governing body to JW elders; it does not originate from "Watchtower" in any other sense than that Watchtower is the publisher acting on behalf of the JW governing body the way Commentary Press publishes on behalf of Ray Franz.

Second, where he refers multiple times to "Watchtower letter dated August 23, 2010," [1] what he really means is "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses letter dated August 23, 2010." [2] The "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses" and "Watchtower" are not one and the same thing. "Watchtower" is a publishing company, the "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses" is a religion; the "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses," a religion - or, more accurately a sect of the cult of xtianity - uses the publishing company "Watchtower" in a manner similar to the way varying religious groups use Augsberg Fortress - a publishing company. Here the GB of the CCJW is acting as the supposed spiritual heads of the overall body of JWs and speaking directly to JW elders acting as shepherds in the several congregations independent of any association between it and its agent publishing company.

Marvin Shilmer, liar and pimp, knows this. A much better, and more relevant, question than the one he asks at the outset would be why he deliberately substitutes "Watchtower" for "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses."

(The answer, obviously, is that he, like many of his fellow vermin, parasites, spiritual pims, prostitutes, deceivers and malcontents, are part of a greater movement that seeks to harm the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses by harming its agent Watchtower business interests financially. A good example of this can be seen in the statements of a user who I'll call "Blow" Joe who posted on the liar and pimp Marvin Shilmer's blog.[3])

Now to the question asked by liar and pimp: "WHY NOT give opportunity to [everyone] to read Watchtower’s new 2010 [elders only] book?" [4]

Here's the simple answer, as given on both Yahoo Answers, and in this thread in varying forms; "everyone" is not "an elder," and therefore if "everyone" were to read the book it would not be an "elders only" book.

Let's look at the question another way: "WHY NOT give [Microsoft software developers] the opportunity to read [Apple's] new [operating system code]?

Or, we could look at it this way: "WHY NOT give [the intelligence community of Nazi Germany] the opportunity to read [classified data gathered by the Allied intelligence community]?

OR, let's try it this way: "WHY NOT give [anyone who asks for it] the opportunity to read [Marvin the lying Pimp Shilmer's personal financial information]?"

Let's go on... "Certainly all of [Microsoft's software developers/the intelligence community of Nazi Germany/anyone who asks for it] should have ample opportunity to read the information since [practically all] of it is otherwise nowhere published by [Apple/the Allied intelligence community/Marvin the lying pimp Shilmer] yet pertinent [as defined by Marvin the lying Pimp Shilmer] to [Microsoft software developers/the intelligence community of Nazi Germany/anyone who asks for it].

The FACT of the matter is that communication between one party, no matter who it is, and another party, no matter who it is, is, by and large, intended only for the party initiating the communication and the one receiving the communication. Such is the case here. The JW GB is speaking to JW elders. It isn't speaking to the congregation at large. The answer to the question, "why shouldn't they?" is, in my mind, "why SHOULD they?"

“ALLEZ MONTREAL!”

Since: Dec 06

Where pretty lies perish, QC

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#24
Oct 26, 2010
 

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Obviously, the liar and pimp has an answer. AND, as is the case EVERY TIME he asks a question, he has already offered up the proverbial built-in, predetermined answer - which is the only "correct" (and by "correct," I, obviously - for those of you in Raleigh, NC - mean what Marvin the lying Pimp Shilmer deems to be "correct" in line with his narrow-minded thinking) one:

"This makes no sense [to me]..." [1]

"[I] do not get it." [1]

"[I] see every reason why..." [1]

The liar and pimp invokes "the community of Jehovah's Witnesses" (why didn't he use the term "Watchtower" there? Why not his haughty, not to mention stupid, standard "Watchtower Worshipper" retort?) in stating that this information is "pertinent" (as defined by him) to them, yet his justification for the idea that the new elder manual should not be private is, "'This makes no sense [to me],''[I] do not get it,' and '[I] see every reason...'"

Are we to take from this that Marvin Shilmer, liar, pimp and imaginary medical professional, is to be taken as the spokesman for [ALL] Jehovah's Witnesses (why not his haughty, not to mention stupid, standard "Watchtower Worshipper" retort?) who [CERTAINLY SHOULD] have ample opportunity to read the information, despite the fact that they are not elders and don't have the duties and responsibilities that elders do?

The question he asks, again, ""WHY NOT give opportunity to [everyone] to read Watchtower’s new 2010 [elders only] book?" [4], HAS been answered, "thoroughly," [8] as stated by YA user "Bar Anerges," and not only by him, but by multiple users on YA [7] as well as on this thread [5][6].

“ALLEZ MONTREAL!”

Since: Dec 06

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#25
Oct 26, 2010
 

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The problem, is that no one gave the "correct" answer, i.e., the answer Marvin the liar and Pimp Shilmer, phony medical professional, wants. That answer, of course, is based on his flawed "reasoning" that "Watchtower," actually the GB of the CCJW, should do things they way he believes they should be done. Again, his reasoning for why [ALL] Jehovah's Witnesses (why not his haughty, not to mention stupid, standard "Watchtower Worshipper" retort?)[CERTAINLY SHOULD] have ample opportunity to read the information: "[I] see every reason why."[1]

Any other answer given is, per the liar and pimp, wrong, because, "[I] see every reason why."[1]

You'll notice that when it's convenient, or when he imagines it will carry more weight with the weak and narrow minded acolytes of the cult of ex/antiJWism, he'll refer to his CURRENT JW elder status, despite his constant attacks on the GB as a whole or, conveniently, deceased members whose "voice," such as it is on the Internet, isn't being heard here. A great deal is revealed about his psychological profile in that he imagines that the GB should act the way he thinks they should, despite the fact that he's spent a HUGE amount of time over the past several years - and likely over most of his life, in one manner or another - criticizing them on any number of issues. He is glad to act as their agent by day, and by night work underhandedly, and anonymously, to undermine them, yet he still wants to have that status of being a person from whom knowledge emanates as though with authority. Funny that he throws in this little jab at StandFirm, who answers the REAL content of the question, though doesn't play his pimp's game of reading back the manuscript answer that he wants:

"You don’t touch the actual question asked because you can’t find an answer that maintains [your idol of choice on the pedestal you have placed it]." [4]

The liar and pimp would much rather BE the idol of choice placed on the pedestal where the GB currently stands - the GB he so desperately wishes he were a part of and works so hard to "imitate."

(I'm sure few, if any, of you get why I put the word imitate in quotes.)

Before he tells you that such isn't his goal, let me call, premptively, bullshit. A person doesn't dedicate the amount of time he has working online to act as an authority if they don't want people to listen to what they have to say. Who knows how he was fulfilling this need to play one-man GB before the Internet, but an individual who would spend the amount of time he has on Wikipedia, Yahoo Answers, JWD/JWN, Topix, Bnet and in other forums crafting "scholarly" works on various JW-related subjects and putting them out anywhere he finds a place WANTS people to look to him as an authority, and anyone who goes to the legnths he does to bash, ridicule and arrogantly talk down to those with a differing viewpoint WANT their ideas not only to be heard but taken to heart as FACT.

“ALLEZ MONTREAL!”

Since: Dec 06

Where pretty lies perish, QC

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#26
Oct 26, 2010
 

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Perhaps then it is liar and pimp who should explain why it is that it should be up to HIM to determine that [ALL] Jehovah's Witnesses (why not his haughty, not to mention stupid, standard "Watchtower Worshipper" retort?)[CERTAINLY SHOULD] have ample opportunity to read the information?

Who is Marvin the liar and Pimp Shilmer?

In addition to his hematology credentials from Acme Looniversity, what place or position does he hold whereby he should be able to determine what information [ALL] Jehovah's Witnesses (why not his haughty, not to mention stupid, standard "Watchtower Worshipper" retort?)[CERTAINLY SHOULD] or [CERTAINLY SHOULD NOT] have access to?

Who is he that he deserves to have his questions, with their built-in, predetermined answers, read back to him as though he were conducting a Watchtower magazine study under threat of his haughty, and stupid, retort of "Watchtower Worshipper?"

References:(for this and my prior three posts)
_____

[1] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

[2] PDF of KS10e, via Scrib, which I suggest viewing with Internet Explorer. http://www.scribd.com/doc/40116054/2010-ks10-...

[3](From BlowJoe, who "isn't taking it anymore!") http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2010/10/new...

[4] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

[5] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

[6] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

[7](Refer to answers given by "Steve P - JW," "Kilroy J" and "Escape" - all of whom the liar and pimp failed to address, as well as "Bar-Anerges" whom the liar and pimp simply blew off without substantive rebuttal) http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=...

[8] Quote from "Bar-Anerges" from Reference 7: "My answer directly addressed your question. But, your [standard claim] is that your questions are not answered when they have been thoroughly answered and your position refuted."

“From Exile to Redemption”

Since: Jun 10

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#27
Oct 26, 2010
 
I think it's very telling that they want the book kept under wraps, because there really is no apparent good reason for them to do so, unless they're doing it for the purpose of keeping away lawsuits. Nothing spectacular about the book. Read it for yourselves (I'm not a JW and don't have access to their publications, so I don't know who posted it)....
http://thepiratebay.org/search/Shepherd%20the...

“ALLEZ MONTREAL!”

Since: Dec 06

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#28
Oct 26, 2010
 
TorahWeeper12 wrote:
...there really is no apparent good reason for them to do so, unless they're doing it for the purpose of keeping away lawsuits.
Do, please, explain how keeping something that is meant for a specific group within the JW sect confidential "keeps away" lawsuits.

“From Exile to Redemption”

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#29
Oct 26, 2010
 
FH Chandler wrote:
<quoted text>
Do, please, explain how keeping something that is meant for a specific group within the JW sect confidential "keeps away" lawsuits.
That's one of those common-sense questions you shouldn't have to ask--UNLESS, of course, you don't know what's in the book! Read some of the excerpts posted by various people online and your question will be answered ;-)

“ALLEZ MONTREAL!”

Since: Dec 06

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#30
Oct 26, 2010
 

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TorahWeeper12 wrote:
That's one of those common-sense questions you shouldn't have to ask--UNLESS, of course, you don't know what's in the book!
Readers take note - here is a fine example of a person ACTUALLY not answering a question that was asked of him.

(This is in contrast to people answering the liar and pimp Marvin Shilmer's questions and being accused of not answering them because they've offered a REAL answer to the REAL question as opposed to reading back the manuscript answer to Pimp's leading questions with their built-in, predetermined answers.)

You offer up a fine non-answer, TorahWeeper. Now, would you like to try and actually offer up an answer to the question? Try and make it a substantive one.

TorahWeeper: Read some of the excerpts posted by various people online...

Reply: I don't need to read excerpts posted "by various people online," as I've already read most of the actual text. As I said, I included a link to the actual text above.

In fact, I've read multiple times where people like you have insinuated that "legal action" of some sort or another could be taken. When asked the simple question, "How?" they were no more capable of forming a substantive response than you have.

TorahWeeper:...and your question will be answered ;-)

Reply: Your pimp's posturing aside, that's a fine admission that you didn't answer the question. Thank you.

Perhaps you'll give it a go now?

I know what is in the book; if you had read my preceding posts in the thread you would have seen that I included a link to it above.

“ALLEZ MONTREAL!”

Since: Dec 06

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#31
Oct 26, 2010
 

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An observation:

It seems to me that the Topix/JWN bottomfeeder "Yknot" is the one taking credit for initially bringing the book to the attention of the online ex/antiJW community.

Attached to the original postings both here an on JWN is a letter attributed to "Brother Johnson," who, apparently, is the "JW elder" who scanned the book into a digital format and provided it to "Yknot."

Of interest, to me, is the fact that "Brother Johnson," refers to the handbook as, "the new Kingdom Ministry School textbook." [1] If the details of "Brother Johnson's" story are to be believed, "Brother Johnson," is 75 years old [2] and has been an elder, "for almost 30 years." [3]

It seems to me that a man who has been an elder, "for almost 30 years" [3] would be familiar with the prior edition of the elders' "Shepherding" manual and would have known it as, "the elders' manual."

"Brother Johnson" goes on to say, after relating the requisite unverifiable, likely embellished sob story, that he was prompted to action (the action of not knowing the significance or the intended usage of an updated publication replacing one he already had thorough knowledge of, though certain it could be of "help" to the online world of ex/antiJW parasites?) as well as "tears of bitterness" by something he heard at, "the annual meeting," namely a presentation where, supposedly, "those who have grown old in this system...were compared to the Isrealites who murmured in the wilderness." [4]

Why would he here refer to it as a, "Kingdom Ministry School textbook?" He would know full well that it had nothing to do with the KMS and, being for elders only, was not a "textbook." He would, rightly, know it as an updated version of, "the elders' manual," right?

Knowing the penchant for theatrics among the posturing bottomfeeders in question, I think a much more likely scenario is the nephew mentioned in the second to last paragraph [5] somehow got his little hands on the publication and wrote up this letter - possibly with some embellished real life details attributable to... somebody; whether "Yknot" is a partner in this charade to shine an "honorable" light on yet another blatant criminal act on the part of the collective online ex/antiJW movement, only she(?) knows. She(?) seems to be getting quite a bit of praise from her(?) fellow bottomfeeders over in the cesspool. This is already a criminal act, and the powers that be in the cesspool - Simon Gangrene and The-Fat-Lady Lee - know it [6]; is it a criminal act compounded by a carefully crafted (FALSE) story and an underhanded act of stealing OR taking advantage of the stupidity of the real "Brother Johnson," if one actually exists, which is no better?

I wouldn't be surprised by either, nor am I surprised at the way the parasites of the cesspool seem to be going out of their way to defend it.

References:
_____

Unless otherwise stated, the following quotes can be found here: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-...

[1] "My nephew...indicated that it may be useful to you and other to have copy of the [new Kingdom Ministry School textbook]. I am [glad] to provide mine to you."

[2] "In 1935 [when I was born]..."

[3] "I was ultimatly able to serve as an Elder, a privledge I have enjoyed [for almost 30 years]."

[4] "...what has prompted me into action, was the Annual Meeting this year. I was invited to attend, as I frequently have had the privledge to do so. In one of the talks it was put forth, those who have grown old in this system and begun to question the wisdom of Kingdom sService and forgoing secular jobs and opportunties were compared to the Isrealites who murmured in the wilderness.. Tears of bitterness welled up in my eyes at that..."

[6] http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/forum/announc...

“From Exile to Redemption”

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#32
Oct 26, 2010
 

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FH Chandler wrote:
<quoted text>
Readers take note - here is a fine example of a person ACTUALLY not answering a question that was asked of him.
(This is in contrast to people answering the liar and pimp Marvin Shilmer's questions and being accused of not answering them because they've offered a REAL answer to the REAL question as opposed to reading back the manuscript answer to Pimp's leading questions with their built-in, predetermined answers.)
You offer up a fine non-answer, TorahWeeper. Now, would you like to try and actually offer up an answer to the question? Try and make it a substantive one.
TorahWeeper: Read some of the excerpts posted by various people online...
Reply: I don't need to read excerpts posted "by various people online," as I've already read most of the actual text. As I said, I included a link to the actual text above.
In fact, I've read multiple times where people like you have insinuated that "legal action" of some sort or another could be taken. When asked the simple question, "How?" they were no more capable of forming a substantive response than you have.
TorahWeeper:...and your question will be answered ;-)
Reply: Your pimp's posturing aside, that's a fine admission that you didn't answer the question. Thank you.
Perhaps you'll give it a go now?
I know what is in the book; if you had read my preceding posts in the thread you would have seen that I included a link to it above.
Well how flattering: you found my reply worthy of your own personal little whine! Time for a visit to the parent Professor (something your folks should have taught you (maybe you missed the lesson so pay attention))--"And whining doesn't work with me because it's just too easy," he says in a chastising tone. Those shrill, name-calling diversions: we just ignore those ;-)

Parent Professor says:'Stop whining!'
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Now go read something, son (if you read it, read it again and become an EXPERT!):

http://thepiratebay.org/search/Shepherd%20the...

You take care now...ya'hear? ;-)

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#33
Oct 26, 2010
 
Marvin Shilmer wrote:
Elder Only Watchtower book, 2010
Watchtower has announced publication and distribution of its new book dated 2010 and titled “Shepherd the Flock of God—1 Peter 5:2”.—(Watchtower letter dated August 23, 2010 addressed to “All Bodies of Elders”)
Watchtower’s appointed elders have been told these books are for “elders only” and to be kept “secured and confidential”. Elders are further instructed that “other individuals should not have any opportunity to read the information.”—(Watchtower letter dated August 23, 2010 addressed to “All Bodies of Elders”)
This makes no sense to me now and has never made any sense to me. What would Watchtower have to say to its appointed elders that is not perfectly appropriate to share with everyone and anyone who wants to read it? Having read this book—and all its processor publications before it—I do not get it. I see every reason why Watchtower should want everyone to read this new book and no reason why it should want to keep anyone from an opportunity to read the information. Certainly all of Jehovah’s Witnesses should have ample opportunity to read the information since some of it is otherwise nowhere published by Watchtower yet pertinent to the community of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Particularly disturbing to me is Watchtower’s inappropriate gender bias against women among Jehovah’s Witnesses in relation to this new book. In a letter to its appointed elders Watchtower states that if an elder prefers a spiral binding he may 1) have another elder do it for him, or 2) he may have a non-elder “brother” do it under his immediate supervision, but that 3)“Outside companies, unbelievers, or sisters are not permitted to do this work.”—(Watchtower letter dated October 7, 2010 addressed to “All Bodies of Elders”)
Hence I ask the question: Why not give opportunity to everyone to read Watchtower’s new 2010 “elders only” book?
Marvin Shilmer
Hi there Marvin

I agree with you why not let members read the bood, like the jews has the Talmud, the Catholichs have their catechism and the Muslims have their Sharia...

It is stange that the Scriptures need to be completet with doctrinal manuals...:huh:
Yknot

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#34
Oct 26, 2010
 
Just a timely reminder....

Should you care for a copy of the link that was provided to me to the KS10..

YOu will need to register at www.jehovahs-witness.net and post on this thread or PM me...

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/20...

“From Exile to Redemption”

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#35
Oct 26, 2010
 
Yknot wrote:
Just a timely reminder....
Should you care for a copy of the link that was provided to me to the KS10..
YOu will need to register at www.jehovahs-witness.net and post on this thread or PM me...
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/20...
Hi Yknot,

you can also download it from here (no registration required). The download was good last I checked:
http://thepiratebay.org/search/Shepherd%20the...

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#36
Oct 26, 2010
 
Gareth wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't be silly. Lawyers know the book can not be kept secret from anyone who would want to do harm to Jehovah's Witnesses.
It is obviously not for legal reasons that they don't want the information to become widely known among non-elders.
Hi there Wibbles and Gareths, defender of Germaliels Bodys and their doctrines of men...

Tell us all why it can harm the Watchtower Society, Germaliels Bodys... or don't want it to become public... do they print a publication which can harm themselves... why ?

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#37
Oct 26, 2010
 
abrother wrote:
<quoted text>
Most of the information in the Manual is in the WT publications.
Hi there a brother defending germaliels Bodys and their doctrines of men...

When everything have been printed in the Watchtower Magazines, tell us all why it should be only for Elder, don't they read the Watchtower Magazines... and get them in hard or soft cover... like the manual...:grin:
Yknot

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#38
Oct 26, 2010
 
TorahKeeper12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Yknot,
you can also download it from here (no registration required). The download was good last I checked:
http://thepiratebay.org/search/Shepherd%20the...
Hi TorahKeeper12!

The PB link is to Bro. JOhnson's upload which has 2 BOE LTRs (8/23 & 10/7)

The latest JWN version has those two LTRs plus (3rd) BOE LTR 10/12 which is added notations to Chapter 12. It also is formated a bit different with the LTRs at the end of the PDF.

For those who have downloaded the PB and either have acrobat to insert the BOE LTR 10/12/2010 or plan on making handwritten notation in Ch. 12 ........ you will find a copy of hte LTR on this JWN thread!

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/be...
Yknot

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#39
Oct 26, 2010
 
FH Chandler,

A point of 'clarification' on YOUR assertion of elders calling the present and past 'kingdom school textbooks''Elder manuals'.

Elders when making quick references use the terms 'ks91 and ks10'.

Beyond that your statements speak clearly of your knowledge of WTS procedures and nuances above the basic publisher level.

I have no desire to return the reviling you have allowed yourself to wallow in; though you would do well to consider what the ks10 has to say on the matter in Chater 5 pgs 68, 69.

Warm Christian Regards
Sister Yknot

“ALLEZ MONTREAL!”

Since: Dec 06

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#40
Oct 27, 2010
 
TorahWeeper wrote:
Well how flattering: you found my reply worthy of your own personal little whine! Time for a visit to the parent Professor (something your folks should have taught you (maybe you missed the lesson so pay attention))--"And whining doesn't work with me because it's just too easy," he says in a chastising tone. Those shrill, name-calling diversions: we just ignore those ;-)
Parent Professor says:'Stop whining!'
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Now go read something, son (if you read it, read it again and become an EXPERT!):
http://thepiratebay.org/search/Shepherd%20the...
You take care now...ya'hear? ;-)
It wasn't a hard question; that you go to such lengths to avoid answering it says that you aren't capable, which would be a good indicator that you know your original assertion is wrong.

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