Salvation: Is it by the Watchtower way or by grace?

Posted in the Jehovah's Witness Forum

Comments
1 - 20 of 388 Comments Last updated Oct 15, 2013
First Prev
of 20
Next Last
Passerby

Houston, TX

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1
Sep 23, 2013
 

Judged:

2

2

2

I woud like for any JW to clarify this issue for me. the Bible says: "for it is BY GRACE you have been SAVED... AND THIS IS NOT FROM YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT of God, NOT BY WORKS, so that NO ONE can boast" but the Watchtower says that Jehovah's Witnesses have to " EXERT themselves VIGOROUSLY to ATTAIN salvation".

The Bible says that salvation is a gracious GIFT but the Watchtower says that JWs have to work vigoroulsy to attain salvation. Is it possible for any JW to be saved by using the Watchtower method? Is this possible? Is this logical? Can anyone tell me?

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#2
Sep 23, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Passerby wrote:
I woud like for any JW to clarify this issue for me. the Bible says: "for it is BY GRACE you have been SAVED... AND THIS IS NOT FROM YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT of God, NOT BY WORKS, so that NO ONE can boast" but the Watchtower says that Jehovah's Witnesses have to " EXERT themselves VIGOROUSLY to ATTAIN salvation".
The Bible says that salvation is a gracious GIFT but the Watchtower says that JWs have to work vigoroulsy to attain salvation. Is it possible for any JW to be saved by using the Watchtower method? Is this possible? Is this logical? Can anyone tell me?
Show us an ACTUAL QUOTE from the Watchtower publication that you are talking about.

We need to know what they ACTUALLY SAID rather than what you CLAIM they said.
Blessed 4

Wausau, WI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#3
Sep 23, 2013
 
Passerby wrote:
I woud like for any JW to clarify this issue for me. the Bible says: "for it is BY GRACE you have been SAVED... AND THIS IS NOT FROM YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT of God, NOT BY WORKS, so that NO ONE can boast" but the Watchtower says that Jehovah's Witnesses have to " EXERT themselves VIGOROUSLY to ATTAIN salvation".
The Bible says that salvation is a gracious GIFT but the Watchtower says that JWs have to work vigoroulsy to attain salvation. Is it possible for any JW to be saved by using the Watchtower method? Is this possible? Is this logical? Can anyone tell me?
That depends on what really your basic beliefs are ..
Example : I knew from studying my bible only after a short time that ANYTHING written by man is Not from God and according to the bible ,God gave us his words for a reason or he would have just let us all guess and fend for ourselves even if it included manmade beliefs however God loved us enough to carefully put together a guide book of rules he wanted us to follow and with good reason ...

Can you imagine this world with out any rules or guidelines ?

God makes it very clear about following mans instructions and is totally against it ,after all he did make us so he would be the only one to turn to no matter how good satan makes the WT OR AWAKES LOOK ,of course he's going to make things look better ,face it nobody would follow satans manmade teachings if they were not Glamorous .. God warns us not to follow man and since he made us he knows what's best for us so why would we stray away from God to a manmade beliefs ?

As far as following the WT for any type of Salvation ,you must remember your going against everything God asks from you and the WT are All manmade which means are full of mistakes ...

Again who and what would you trust completely rather than imperfect men who don't follow only Gods words but actually goes against them and when something goes wrong they can't figure out what went wrong and why?

My personal bet would definitely on God as he's not capable of lying unlike WT MEN,and God has our best interest in mind and we Don't Have TO WORK OUR TAILS off to prove our Loyalty and not worry if we didn't work hard enough to make everlasting life ! With the jws and All That WASTED TIME ,they didn't need to work physically to gain Gods promises ..

I wouldn't want to be a jws during judgment day that's for sure ,why risk Everlasting Death by The very Simple and little that God asks of us?

I'm glad I'm not in jws False religion or walking in their shoes ...

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#4
Sep 23, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

This is what Jehovah's Witnesses teach in their publications.

*** w90 8/1 p. 16 par. 2 Do You Appreciate What God Has Done?***

2 In addition to all of that, God sent his own firstborn Son to tell us more about what the Father expects of us and to provide a “release by ransom” for everyone who will accept it.(Ephesians 1:7; Romans 5:18) That son, Jesus Christ, said:“God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”(John 3:16, King James Version) The salvation made possible by that ransom is of such superlative value that there is absolutely no way that anyone could do works to earn it, certainly not works formerly done under the Mosaic Law. Thus, Paul wrote:“A man is declared righteous, not due to works of law, but only through faith toward Christ Jesus.”—Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:20-24.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#5
Sep 23, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

According to Jesus Christ gaining salvation would be a struggle:

*** Luke 13:24 "Strive to enter in by the narrow door, for many, I tell you, will seek to enter in, and will not be able.
Blessed 4

Wausau, WI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6
Sep 23, 2013
 
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Show us an ACTUAL QUOTE from the Watchtower publication that you are talking about.
We need to know what they ACTUALLY SAID rather than what you CLAIM they said.
Will it really matter as people have given you word for word proof and yet like the ManMade DANGEROUS CULT follower ,you listen to EVERYTHING The PERVERTED GOVERNING BODY tells you with out you even making sure they aren't LYING AGAIN !
Gods warned you Not TO FOLLOW THESE PERVERTED MEN,GB,But rather than listen and Obey God,you take the words of the PERVERTED LEADERS GB,WITH OUT Even RESEARCHING their FALSIFIED claims ..

How Stupid are you ,your Everlasting life /death is at risk and you CHOOSE MANMADE FALSIFIED TEACHINGS rather than Gods !

Well when judgment day happens ,the bible says God will turn you away and act as if he doesn't know you and then Comes your Reward for being UNLOYAL, and CHOOSING MAN INSTEAD OF GOD himself : Just what you Deserve EVERLASTING DEATH !

God doesn't go back on his words or he does not change his mind and when he says EVERLASTING DEATH,that's ecstatically what he means and jws think they can keep changing Gods promises and bible ,yes they sure can but Not With OUT PAYING The CONSEQUENCES !
GUESS AGAIN !

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#7
Sep 23, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

You see, even though salvation is a gift of such value that no amount of works could pay for it, God still expects us to work in his service. Its a requirement, not an option.

*** Matt 7:21 Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Notice how Jesus Christ says we must DO THE WILL OF GOD in order to be saved. Simply claiming belief in Jesus is not enough, you actually have to work at obedience to God and Christ.

Still because the gift of life is so much more valuable than any works we can do, we will never be able to actually purchase our salvation through our works.

They are an OBLIGATION.

*** 1 Cor 9:16 For if I proclaim the Good News, I have nothing to boast about; for necessity is laid on me; but woe is to me, if I do not proclaim the Good News.
Mumple

Milton, PA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#8
Sep 23, 2013
 
Aneirin wrote:
According to Jesus Christ gaining salvation would be a struggle:
*** Luke 13:24 "Strive to enter in by the narrow door, for many, I tell you, will seek to enter in, and will not be able.
Are you not being disingenuous in your presentation of the verse in Luke? This is how it reads in the dreaded NWT

***: 24 “Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell YOU, will seek to get in but will not be able,

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#9
Sep 23, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Blessed 4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Will it really matter as people have given you word for word proof and yet like the ManMade DANGEROUS CULT follower ,you listen to EVERYTHING The PERVERTED GOVERNING BODY tells you with out you even making sure they aren't LYING AGAIN !
Gods warned you Not TO FOLLOW THESE PERVERTED MEN,GB,But rather than listen and Obey God,you take the words of the PERVERTED LEADERS GB,WITH OUT Even RESEARCHING their FALSIFIED claims ..
How Stupid are you ,your Everlasting life /death is at risk and you CHOOSE MANMADE FALSIFIED TEACHINGS rather than Gods !
Well when judgment day happens ,the bible says God will turn you away and act as if he doesn't know you and then Comes your Reward for being UNLOYAL, and CHOOSING MAN INSTEAD OF GOD himself : Just what you Deserve EVERLASTING DEATH !
God doesn't go back on his words or he does not change his mind and when he says EVERLASTING DEATH,that's ecstatically what he means and jws think they can keep changing Gods promises and bible ,yes they sure can but Not With OUT PAYING The CONSEQUENCES !
GUESS AGAIN !
Typical rantings of the obviously crazed anti-JW fanatics.

Very convincing, I'm sure. No really.
Blessed 4

Wausau, WI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#10
Sep 23, 2013
 
Aneirin wrote:
According to Jesus Christ gaining salvation would be a struggle:
*** Luke 13:24 "Strive to enter in by the narrow door, for many, I tell you, will seek to enter in, and will not be able.
Your falsified bible has Gods real words slaughtered into being just a dangerous cult of jws guide to your False teachings and beliefs ..

My real normal bible doesn't say : will seek to enter in ,and WILL Not BE ABLE !

It also doesn't mean it's going to be this huge struggle for Most but it may be for the False RELIGIONS who followed mans rules like the PERVERTED GB,INSTEAD OF What GOD DEMANDED FROM HIS TRUE CHRISTIANS ,was to follow HIM & HIM ONLY and not any Governing body !
Mumple

Milton, PA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#11
Sep 23, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Aneirin wrote:
You see, even though salvation is a gift of such value that no amount of works could pay for it, God still expects us to work in his service. Its a requirement, not an option.
*** Matt 7:21 Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Notice how Jesus Christ says we must DO THE WILL OF GOD in order to be saved. Simply claiming belief in Jesus is not enough, you actually have to work at obedience to God and Christ.
Still because the gift of life is so much more valuable than any works we can do, we will never be able to actually purchase our salvation through our works.
They are an OBLIGATION.
*** 1 Cor 9:16 For if I proclaim the Good News, I have nothing to boast about; for necessity is laid on me; but woe is to me, if I do not proclaim the Good News.
Why do you place Paul's obligation on others? Paul didn't do that. As far as doing the will of God is concerned, that is obvious. It was shown by the actions of God when Adam decided to do his own will instead of God's will. Job did God's will by leading a Godly life. Yet he was called ....My servant Job. Where do you get the authority to place obligations, beyond that, on others? Are not those obligations, obligations of men?

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#12
Sep 23, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Mumple wrote:
Are you not being disingenuous in your presentation of the verse in Luke? This is how it reads in the dreaded NWT
***: 24 “Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell YOU, will seek to get in but will not be able,
How am I being disingenuous?

The Greek word translated "strive" in Luke 13:24 is "AGWNIZOMAI":

*** Luke 13:24 "Strive to enter in by the narrow door , for many, I tell you, will seek to enter in, and will not be able.

This is what that word means:

== Quote: Strongs: G75 ==
75 [A)GWNI/ZOMAI]
from 73; to struggle, literally (to compete for a prize), figuratively (to contend with an adversary), or genitive case (to endeavor to accomplish something):--fight, labor fervently, strive.
Mumple

Milton, PA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#13
Sep 23, 2013
 
Blessed 4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Your falsified bible has Gods real words slaughtered into being just a dangerous cult of jws guide to your False teachings and beliefs ..
My real normal bible doesn't say : will seek to enter in ,and WILL Not BE ABLE !
It also doesn't mean it's going to be this huge struggle for Most but it may be for the False RELIGIONS who followed mans rules like the PERVERTED GB,INSTEAD OF What GOD DEMANDED FROM HIS TRUE CHRISTIANS ,was to follow HIM & HIM ONLY and not any Governing body !
What ...normal...bible version are you using that doesn't say......: will seek to enter in ,and WILL Not BE ABLE !..., or some reasonable variation of that thought?

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#14
Sep 23, 2013
 

Judged:

2

2

2

Blessed 4 wrote:
<...ranting omitted...>

It also doesn't mean it's going to be this huge struggle for Most but it may be for the False RELIGIONS who ... <... ranting omitted...>
This is what Apostle Peter says:

*** 1 Pet 4:18 "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will happen to the ungodly and the sinner?"

Salvation is HARD, it is NOT easy.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15
Sep 23, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Mumple wrote:
Why do you place Paul's obligation on others? Paul didn't do that. As far as doing the will of God is concerned, that is obvious. It was shown by the actions of God when Adam decided to do his own will instead of God's will. Job did God's will by leading a Godly life. Yet he was called ....My servant Job. Where do you get the authority to place obligations, beyond that, on others? Are not those obligations, obligations of men?
How you can think that out of all the Christians that ever lived only Paul was obliged to preach is beyond me.

HOWEVER you agree that obedience to God is a "given" requirement.

So, with that in mind, do we have to obey Jesus when he commanded this:

*** Matt 28:19,20 Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations ... teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you....
Mumple

Milton, PA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#16
Sep 23, 2013
 
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
How am I being disingenuous?
The Greek word translated "strive" in Luke 13:24 is "AGWNIZOMAI":
*** Luke 13:24 "Strive to enter in by the narrow door , for many, I tell you, will seek to enter in, and will not be able.
This is what that word means:
== Quote: Strongs: G75 ==
75 [A)GWNI/ZOMAI]
from 73; to struggle, literally (to compete for a prize), figuratively (to contend with an adversary), or genitive case (to endeavor to accomplish something):--fight, labor fervently, strive.
You are being disingenuous in that you looked for another translation than the one your masters promote, so that it didn't carry the exact quote you were questioning. Sir, there is not an honest bone in your body. Trying to justify your choice is playing me for a fool. I assure you I am not a fool. I can't think of anyone but another disingenuous person, who would agree with your defense, so who are you reaching out to with this post? Surely you're not trying to appear genuine in your claim? That would strain credibility.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#17
Sep 23, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Blessed 4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Your falsified bible has Gods real words slaughtered <...ranting deleted...>
Here is the King James Version

KJV
*** Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."
Mumple

Milton, PA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#18
Sep 23, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
This is what Apostle Peter says:
*** 1 Pet 4:18 "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will happen to the ungodly and the sinner?"
Salvation is HARD, it is NOT easy.
. 29 Take my yoke upon YOU and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and YOU will find refreshment for YOUR souls. 30 For my yoke is kindly and my load is light.”

Since: Sep 10

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#19
Sep 23, 2013
 
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
This is what Apostle Peter says:
*** 1 Pet 4:18 "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will happen to the ungodly and the sinner?"
Salvation is HARD, it is NOT easy.
I hate it when you speak on both side of your mouth. Can you tell me is salvation a gift? Is salvation from works? Or is Salvation a combination of both?
Blessed 4

Wausau, WI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#20
Sep 23, 2013
 
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Typical rantings of the obviously crazed anti-JW fanatics.
Very convincing, I'm sure. No really.
Very Very "TYPICAL " of your uneducated kind to resort to Childish and Non- Christian tactics ....

"CRAZED " Anti -jw Fanatics?
No "CRAZED",is going to be your Reaction on judgment day when God follows through with his promises of EVERLASTING DEATH for those like you gareth !

That's one thing on why I love and Trust God instead of the dangerous cult of jws,is because he's true to his words and NEVER CHANGES HIS MIND !

What's a matter gareth ,c back up my post so you try your best to discredit me,when EVERYONE KNOWS what a copy and paste fanatic dangerous cult follower you are ...

Try harder next time with something intelligent to say huh?

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

First Prev
of 20
Next Last
Type in your comments below
Name
(appears on your post)
Comments
Characters left: 4000
Type the numbers you see in the image on the right:

Please note by clicking on "Post Comment" you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

•••
•••