Posted in the Jehovah's Witness Forum
Since: Mar 12
#83 Oct 30, 2012
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Who is the first and the last?
#84 Oct 30, 2012
Lets see now.
You tell us not to worship the Son as we worship the Father because the Son is "created".
But you can't produce and verses that say the Son was created.
So your organization has always taught this since their beginning in 1879.
We used a similar bible until the 1950-1960 time frame where John 1:1 was translated to say "the Word was God".
Then "poof" in the 1950-60 time frame the NWT appeared and the Word became "a" god.
We don't know who these translators were because they were anonymous but they were "clearly" qualified to translate the bible.
These anonymous people's qualifications can "not" be checked for all to see.
Now we have non-linear time.
Is this one of those so-called "present" truths?
#85 Oct 30, 2012
humans are linear it is how we work ATM.
Jehovah is eternal so time does not effect him like it does us. He is outside the limitations of Time right now.
Trying to tie this with modern evolutionary mythology like the " Big Bang theory" (which is very close to being disproved scientifically) is silly.
#86 Oct 30, 2012
he is the " firstborn of creation" like he is the "firstborn of the dead" you cannot be firstborn of any group biblically unless you are a fully paid up member of that group!
Jesus had to be dead to be firstborn of the dead!
He had to be created to be firstborn of creation.
There are no exceptions to this.
Proverbs 8 described his birth.
#87 Oct 30, 2012
(What was written about the Word)
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
(cross referencing back to Genesis)
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
In Proverbs 8 I see the reference to "time indefinite".
22 Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago.
23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth.
So before the Word was created, God didn't have a way? If not, did God have a beginning or do you want me to believe He was way-less? What do you suppose God did for that eternity before He achieved anything and was way-less?
#88 Oct 31, 2012
Note that chronological "TIME" was created after the WORD "WAS".All creation has a point of beginning;but The WORD never did.The main scripture put forth by the NWT has been delibertly made to say the opposite of the GR.Just look at the Gr side of the KIT,or the Diaglott.In col 1 "THE ALL THINGS" is made to say "ALL [OTHER] THINGS".JN 1:3"NOT ONE THING IN ALL CREATION WAS MADE WITHOUT HIM"TEV."NO SINGLE THING WAS CREATED WITHOUT HIM"NEB.SO IF THE WORD WAS CREATED:then HE MADE HIMSELF! HEB 1:2"...He has spoken to us in the SON....through Whom he Created all orders of existence"NEB. The KIT GR SAYS"AGES".Note also How the NWT TRANSLATES "THE ALL THINGS" of HEB 1:3.SAME EXACT construction at COL 1:16,17,20 according to KIT GR.
#89 Oct 31, 2012
The WT understanding of "Firstborn" is ALWAYS "first-created".They refuse to recognize the other meanings of the Orignal HEB and GR Words.Here is the Definition as it appears in the dictionary of the EMPHATIC DIAGLOTT,P.889"FIRST-BORN ,or 'FIRST-BEGOTTON of every creature',may mean cheif of the whole creation."Indeed this is a TITLE of the Messiah atPS 89:27"Also I myself shall place him as firstborn ,the MOST HIGH of the kings of the earth."NWT. And look at JOB 18:13,"It will eat the pieces of his skin;the FIRST-BORN of DEATH will eat his limbs".The idea of PREMENIECE is what is stressed NOT FIRST CREATED;BUT the WT MUST FORCE THE meaning they need to force a predetermined view of the nature of JESUS.Paul's intended meaning of COL 1 is summed up with the conclusion at COL 1:18".....That HE MIGHT BECOME THE ONE WHO IS FIRST IN ALL THINGS".NWT
#90 Oct 31, 2012
The FACT of BEING BEGOTTON MAKES HIM "TRUE GOD FROM TRUE GOD".The son has ETERNAL EXISTENCE,[1JN 1:2].The SPIRIT LIKEWISE is ETERNAL[HEB 9:14]GOD proceeding from GOD [JN 15:26].ETERNALLY EXISTING AS THE HIGH AND LOFTY ONE WHO IS HOLY.[ISA 57:15]
#91 Nov 1, 2012
According to PRO 30:4 There is ONE NAME that God and His SON share.Every action mentioned is to points out things that ONLY GOD CAN DO.Father[PS 68:18]SON[JN 6:62,EPH 4:8]:Father[PS 147:18]SON[LK 8:25]Father[PS 29:3]SON[JN 6:19]ETC,ETC ETC!
#92 Nov 19, 2012
Throughout the New testament "The Lord" is used interchangeably for God and Jesus.
Interestingly the term "The Lord" is from the Greek "tov Kurios". Tov is "the" but it is singular "the only", "ho" is the Greek plural for "the", one of many.
I invite you to get out your interlinear new testament and look into this, as its very strait forward, anyone learning Greek will come across it sooner or later.
For example, John 1:1 literally from the Greek reads like so; In beginning was the-plural spoken word (past tense), and the-plural spoken word (past tense) was with the-singular God and God was the-plural spoken word (past tense).
#93 Apr 17, 2013
Jesus is Jehovah!
#94 Jan 26, 2014
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my father, and your father; and to my God, and your God.
#95 Jan 27, 2014
Jesus is Jehovah's Son. A very simple truth that the bible affirms.
#96 May 7, 2014
#97 Oct 14, 2015
There are a number of verses where God specifically let us know that Jesus was resurrected as a man of flesh and blood, such as in the following verses -
"But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38 And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.
While they were still incredulous for joy and were amazed, he asked them,Have you anything here to eat? They gave him a piece of baked fish; he took it and ate it in front of them.
Before and after the resurrection, there was nothing different to notice about Jesus body at all. If there was some difference, the disciple's certainly didn't notice and the Bible doesn't tell us anything other than he was resurrected as a man of flesh and blood, Jesus himself clearly providing evidence that he was NOT raised with a "spiritual body".
As you can see, the contradiction is in your statement, which claims something different from what the bible, what the Word of God, itself states.
#98 Nov 17, 2015
I notice one scripture that is quite clear on the nature of the historical Jesus that hasn't been discussed here:
Luke 18:19 (New International Version,©2010)
"19 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good, except God alone."
That's it. The historical Jesus was simply an imperfect man who experienced consciously the nature of who we ALL are as stated in Genesis 1:27:
Genesis 1:27 (New International Version,©2010)
"27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them. "
He prayed that we might all be one with GOD consciously as he demonstrated could be done, pointing out that even though he is one with GOD as we all are, GOD is greater than him as GOD is greater than us all even when we recognize our place in GOD:
Acts 17:28 (New International Version,©2010)
"28 For in him we live and move and have our being. As some of your own poets have said, "We are his offspring"
We are ALL children of GOD. Nothing more, nothing less.
The Romans took over Christianity and totally contradicted the simple truth of the historical Jesus, making Jesus into a false god much like the Mithra figure worshiped by the Roman warriors and defended to this day by the spiritually ignorant.
Get informed and get involved in restoring historical Christianity to humanity!
GOD is LOVE. We are all ONE with GOD, even the unloving!
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