Faithful JW Daughter Shuns Apostate M...
jace

Clinton, MD

#82 Sep 16, 2013
array wrote:
No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.– Awake! July 2009 Page 29

http://thegoverningbody.org/

and at the last DC they had a part on when does your loyalty lie, it was all about shunning and DF ones, gave the two edge sword example (which was out of context) that Jesus came to put a sword againt mother, father, sister, brother.

In a nut shell shun your DF family members and be loyal to Jehovah (cough the WT org)

So the GB are putting the pressure on parents and family members to shun their children.
So much for the writing dept trying their hand at PR
jace

Clinton, MD

#83 Sep 16, 2013
elwood wrote:
<quoted text>Really??????????

“Really, what your beloved family member needs to see is your resolute stance to put Jehovah above everything else – including the family bond.… Do not look for excuses to associate with a disfellowshipped family member, for example, through e-mail. Watchtower 2013 Jan 15 p.16

Come on Gareth, wake up!
The above is the JW teaching

Below is the PR PC wt gives to nonjw

Note the contradiction

"No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family."

– Awake! July 2009 Page 29
jace

Clinton, MD

#84 Sep 16, 2013
jace wrote:
Gareth this is the new crueler version in place

April, 2012 Watchtower on Disfellowshipped Persons

The April 2012 WT study article has some of the most strongly worded statements about contact with disfellowshipped family members.
Page 12, paragraph 17:-

17 Consider just one example of the
good that can come when a family loyally
upholds Jehovah’s decree not to associate
with disfellowshipped relatives.

A
young man had been disfellowshipped
for over ten years, during which time his
father, mother, and four brothers “quit
mixing in company” with him. At times,
he tried to involve himself in their activities,
but to their credit, each member
of the family was steadfast in not
having any contact with him.

After he
was reinstated, he said that he always
missed the association with his family,
especially at night when he was alone.
But, he admitted, had the family associated
with him even a little, that small
dose would have satisfied him.

@@@@@@@@@

However,
because he did not receive even
the slightest communication from any
of his family,@@@@@@

the burning desire to be
with them became one motivating factor
in his restoring his relationship with
Jehovah. Think of that if you are ever
tempted to violate God’s command not
to associate with your disfellowshipped
relatives.

So, is this sick or what?

Disfellowshipping and shunning are just "theocratic blackmail.

Unless the person returns to the organization his family will have nothing to do with him.

It seems too me that this persons returned to the organization just because he wanted his family back. It has nothing to do with serving Jehovah.

The Watchtower organization is a sick, creepy cult and though they profess love and building strong families their action show just the reverse. They surely do not have Jehovah's blessings.
Contrast the above Kingdom Hall indoctrination

And the PR. Statement below

"No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family."

– Awake! July 2009 Page 29

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#85 Sep 16, 2013
Well, I've been following this but just had to sign up to comment.

First, the story is SATIRE. And yet, it is so deeply rooted in the truth of the matter, that it is valid to discuss it.

I don't particularly care what the bible has to say about anything, but since some do, I will speak in that context.

JW's run around patting themselves on the back and claiming to be the most loving people on earth. This is false. They claim to be the only righteous messengers of bible truth. Again false, because there actually is not 'truth' in it as you can make it say whatever you want.

But there is a certain message of love there. So looking at the real life consequences of evil shunning, and contrasting that with the love spoken of, I'd say there is a contradiction. If there is a contradiction, then there is something wonky about the interpretation.

JW love is very shallow. It is easily severed. They lack natural affection that they are so fond of giving lip service to. Children shun parents. Parent shun children. That connection is the definition of natural affection, and JW's lack it. They are one of the few groups that can turn their backs on their dearest loved ones and pretend they don't exist. They are beastly. Get free of the Watchtower so you can be free to deeply love.

If you refuse to do this, then be honest about it. When you talk to your tiny child and tell them how much you love them and how they make your heart swell, TELL THEM THE REST. Tell them that at a simple word from a podium, you will throw them in the rubbish and you won't even ask why. That you only love them so much, and it has limits. That if they ever have a religious disagreement with you, they are dead to you. Sing that to them in their cradle. Prepare them so they know not to depend on you for love and acceptance. Because chances are, they will walk from this religion. The majority do.

And when you knock on doors, don't sugar coat it! Be honest! Be forthcoming. Give the house holder a list of names and tell them that those are the people that are dead to you now. Tell them how many children are being shunned in your congregation at that very moment. And while you are busy love bombing them, let them know who you with hold all love from.
FutureMan

Greenslopes, Australia

#86 Sep 16, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
What you believe is total RUBBISH.
Its what you want to happen but it won't. Jehovah's Witnesses stick to the BIBLE and the words of Jesus Christ. The ONLY grounds for divorce is fornication.
Therefore that won't change.
Jehovah's Witnesses ALWAYS stick to the Bible.
Is it?

They have already told there members such as you, to stick it to there family members and shun them, no matter how much they love them!
If they don't, they'll be disloyal to Jehovah.
What they really mean of course is that they will be disloyal to the Organization of which the self appointed "Glorious ones" preside over.
FutureMan

Greenslopes, Australia

#87 Sep 16, 2013
Callheadquarters wrote:
Well, I've been following this but just had to sign up to comment.
First, the story is SATIRE. And yet, it is so deeply rooted in the truth of the matter, that it is valid to discuss it.
I don't particularly care what the bible has to say about anything, but since some do, I will speak in that context.
JW's run around patting themselves on the back and claiming to be the most loving people on earth. This is false. They claim to be the only righteous messengers of bible truth. Again false, because there actually is not 'truth' in it as you can make it say whatever you want.
But there is a certain message of love there. So looking at the real life consequences of evil shunning, and contrasting that with the love spoken of, I'd say there is a contradiction. If there is a contradiction, then there is something wonky about the interpretation.
JW love is very shallow. It is easily severed. They lack natural affection that they are so fond of giving lip service to. Children shun parents. Parent shun children. That connection is the definition of natural affection, and JW's lack it. They are one of the few groups that can turn their backs on their dearest loved ones and pretend they don't exist. They are beastly. Get free of the Watchtower so you can be free to deeply love.
If you refuse to do this, then be honest about it. When you talk to your tiny child and tell them how much you love them and how they make your heart swell, TELL THEM THE REST. Tell them that at a simple word from a podium, you will throw them in the rubbish and you won't even ask why. That you only love them so much, and it has limits. That if they ever have a religious disagreement with you, they are dead to you. Sing that to them in their cradle. Prepare them so they know not to depend on you for love and acceptance. Because chances are, they will walk from this religion. The majority do.
And when you knock on doors, don't sugar coat it! Be honest! Be forthcoming. Give the house holder a list of names and tell them that those are the people that are dead to you now. Tell them how many children are being shunned in your congregation at that very moment. And while you are busy love bombing them, let them know who you with hold all love from.
I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments here.

In fact I am one of those, along with my own immediate family who was and still is shunned by my other family members such as my mum, my Father who is now dead, my brother and sister, and from my point of view very unlovingly because I am one in search of truth and when I find something that is either what I consider to be possible truth or falsehoods, I do not keep it to myself, but tell people about it.
Unfortunately this does not go down to well with the hierarchy of Jehovah's Witnesses, starting with the Elders and upwards.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#88 Sep 16, 2013
"Really, what your beloved family member needs to see is your resolute stance to put Jehovah above everything else - including the family bond.… Do not look for excuses to associate with a disfellowshipped family member, for example, through e-mail." Watchtower 2013 Jan 15 p.16
FutureMan

Greenslopes, Australia

#89 Sep 16, 2013
array wrote:
"Really, what your beloved family member needs to see is your resolute stance to put Jehovah above everything else - including the family bond.… Do not look for excuses to associate with a disfellowshipped family member, for example, through e-mail." Watchtower 2013 Jan 15 p.16
Yep, this way their family member will come running back into the loving arms of their family members and their once spiritual brothers and sisters who had so lovingly shunned them to help them come back to their senses and back to the loving God that Jehovah's Witnesses has portrayed him to be by their actions, and their enlightening teachings (for instance total destruction of everyone else, except loyal Jehovah's Witnesses).

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#90 Sep 16, 2013
Matt9969 wrote:
<quoted text>
But parents can spiritually stone their children to death outside the gates of the city.
.
. Very well put... And yes that is what some parents do.. fanatics.. never realizeing some day that this child they treated as if dead.. may one day be the only person they have to care for them..

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#91 Sep 16, 2013
FutureMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep, this way their family member will come running back into the loving arms of their family members and their once spiritual brothers and sisters who had so lovingly shunned them to help them come back to their senses and back to the loving God that Jehovah's Witnesses has portrayed him to be by their actions, and their enlightening teachings (for instance total destruction of everyone else, except loyal Jehovah's Witnesses).
have you had a chance to see the downloaded Dec WT study article on avoiding those that speculate? they are really tightening up and this just causes divisions which one can be DF for, yet they are creating an atmosphere of parania among the flock.

yet this is what the Wt says themselves on testing your own religion, more importantly what the bible says and they don't apply this to themselves, now one cannot speculate.

g96 2/8 p. 6 To Trust or Not to Trust

What can you do? The Bible gives some good advice on this matter.“Anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word,” says Proverbs 14:15. This is not destructive cynicism. It is a realistic reminder of the need for caution. Only a very naive, inexperienced person is going to trust blindly every word he hears. With good reason the Bible proverb continues:“But the shrewd one considers his steps.” English playwright William Shakespeare wrote:“Trust not to rotten planks.” Anyone who thinks that the planks on a bridge over a deep drop may be rotten would be very foolish to step on them. How, then, can you ‘consider your steps’ so that you do not misplace your trust?

The Bible encourages us to test out what people say rather than just blindly accept everything we hear.“The ear itself makes a test of words, just as the palate tastes when eating,” it says.(Job 34:3) Isn’t that true? Don’t we usually taste food before we swallow it? We should also make a test of people’s words and actions before we swallow them. No one who is genuine will take offense if we check his credentials.That we should check to see that something is genuine is supported by the Scottish proverb that says:“He that deceives me once, shame fall him; if he deceives me twice, shame fall me.”

The apostle Paul advised:“Put all things to the test.”(1 Thessalonians 5:21, Today’s English Version) The word used by the apostle Paul for “test” was also used in connection with testing precious metals to see if they were genuine. A prudent person always tested to see if what he was buying was genuine. Otherwise he might have ended up with what was called fool’s gold—something that looked like gold but that was, in fact, worthless.

February
15,
2000
Watchtower:
“The ruling ecclesiastical class … violently silenced a voice [Cyril Lucaris - in 1638] that
pointed to some of the errors of their non-Biblical beliefs. They proved to be among the
worst enemies of religious freedom and truth. Sadly, this is a stance that in various ways
survives even to our day. It is a sobering reminder of what happens when clergyinstigated intrigues stand in the way of freedom of thought and expression."

"It is important, then, that you "keep testing whether you are in the faith," as Paul declared. Keep checking to see whether the things you believe are in keeping with God's Word. But the question is, Are you willing to put your religion through such a test? There is nothing to fear, because if you have the right religion you can only be reassured by the examination. And if what you believe is not in keeping with the Bible, then you should welcome the truth, because it leads to light and life." Watchtower 1958 May 1 p.261 Is Your Religion the Right One.

The WT Dec study article is avoiding those that speculate, in other words don't dare question the WT.
FutureMan

Greenslopes, Australia

#92 Sep 16, 2013
array wrote:
<quoted text>have you had a chance to see the downloaded Dec WT study article on avoiding those that speculate? they are really tightening up and this just causes divisions which one can be DF for, yet they are creating an atmosphere of parania among the flock.
yet this is what the Wt says themselves on testing your own religion, more importantly what the bible says and they don't apply this to themselves, now one cannot speculate.
Hi Array, yes I have heard of that study and the gist of it .

This scripture comes to my mind though, of which I do not think was mentioned in the Watchtower study.

1 John 4
1 ¶ Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

Or this one for instance, also not mentioned in this study article,

Deuteronomy 18
21 And if you say in your heart, How shall we know the word which Jehovah has not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah, if the thing does not happen or come about, that is the thing which Jehovah has not spoken; that prophet has spoken it proudly; you shall not be afraid of him.[LITV]

“Life is short, enjoy life.:-).”

Since: Aug 13

Baghdad, Iraq

#93 Sep 16, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
I know of THREE elders who have stated basically what is in the article I posted when questioned about disfellowshipped relatives. That is three entirely independent situations in different geographic locations.
All in recent years.
Wow, really THREE!! and basically the same story!! You can can write a scientific report on it.....
I know dozens of incidents (not stories), all the same which describe the situation in this topics event!
So please don't write BS if you don't what is going on. Keep it with the scriptures that's your game!

“Life is short, enjoy life.:-).”

Since: Aug 13

Baghdad, Iraq

#94 Sep 16, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
*** w74 8/1 p. 470 par. 17 Maintaining a Balanced Viewpoint Toward Disfellowshiped Ones ***
A woman whose husband is disfellowshiped is not released from the Scriptural requirement to respect his husbandly headship over her; only death or Scriptural divorce from a husband results in such release.(Rom. 7:1-3; Mark 10:11, 12) A husband likewise is not released from loving his wife as “one flesh” with him even though she should be disfellowshiped.(Matt. 19:5, 6; Eph. 5:28-31) Parents similarly remain under the injunction to ‘go on bringing up their children in the discipline and mental-regulating of Jehovah’ even though a baptized son or a daughter yet a minor is disfellowshiped.(Eph. 6:4) And sons and daughters, of whatever age, remain under the obligation to ‘honor their father and mother’ although one or both of these may be disfellowshiped.(Matt. 15:4; Eph. 6:2)
Like I said, keep it with your scriptures and keep your distance from humanity..... That's what you are good at....
sonny

Suva, Fiji

#95 Sep 16, 2013
I still remember many years ago when something bad happened in one of the congregations, bros and sis in our congregation would say "nah thats not true" or "those stories are all lies" but weeks later when they found out that those stories are actually true no one wants to talk about it.

“Life is short, enjoy life.:-).”

Since: Aug 13

Baghdad, Iraq

#96 Sep 16, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
What you believe is total RUBBISH.
Its what you want to happen but it won't. Jehovah's Witnesses stick to the BIBLE and the words of Jesus Christ. The ONLY grounds for divorce is fornication.
Therefore that won't change.
Jehovah's Witnesses ALWAYS stick to the Bible.
You didn't read (would be rare if you did) He didn't display his believe he stated a fact and that what was told at a JW convention....

Your reply was therefor RUBBISH...;-p

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#97 Sep 16, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
All we can do is obey the scriptures plainly stated in the Bible.
why don't you, your WT says about association via the net, not even emailing a family relative but its ok for you to post to DF ones on here those you deem apostate. You stand by the WT on everything except this, because it suits you, independant thinking is shunned by the WT even speculation, let alone what you disobey them for, attack others while you are disobeying those taking the lead the GB.

And you come in defence of your other topix WT posters, but never ever encourage them to obey those taking the lead and leave for their own spiritual welfare. Remember they are not allowed to have this choice they will be pulled into the back room reproved and if they don't accept that council they will be DF, but you dont' care.
SusieB

Richland, WA

#98 Sep 17, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
That's obviously a contrived "story". It doesn't even read naturally.
*** w74 8/1 p. 471 par. 21 Maintaining a Balanced Viewpoint Toward Disfellowshiped Ones ***
21 As to disfellowshiped family members (not minor sons or daughters) living outside the home, each family must decide to what extent they will have association with such ones. This is not something that the congregational elders can decide for them. What the elders are concerned with is that “leaven” is not reintroduced into the congregation through spiritual fellowshiping with those who had to be removed as such “leaven.” Thus, if a disfellowshiped parent goes to visit a son or daughter or to see grandchildren and is allowed to enter the Christian home, this is not the concern of the elders. Such a one has a natural right to visit his blood relatives and his offspring. Similarly, when sons or daughters render honor to a parent, though disfellowshiped, by calling to see how such a one’s physical health is or what needs he or she may have, this act in itself is not a spiritual fellowshiping.
===
Such freaking stupidity!
Do JW's make it a point to call their "DISFELLOWSHIPED" family members to check on them and see what needs they have???

Jesus says to FORGIVE no matter how many times.
Besides its not an unforgivable sin to walk away from a phony bunch of people; nor is it anything to be kicked out of a false "religion" haha. Thats just ludicrous thinking!

You do NOT have a Christian home let alone a Christian mind and heart, if you can turn your back on someone who has been kicked out of the JW "religion" or shunned because of differing beliefs or mistakes made.
And its totally ungodly to not even try to build them up spiritually.
The bible says;

(1 Thessalonians 5:8-11) "But as for us who belong to the day, let us keep our senses and have on the breastplate of faith and love and as a helmet the hope of salvation; 9 because God assigned us, not to wrath, but to the acquiring of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10 He died for us, that, whether we stay awake or are asleep, we should live together with him. 11 Therefore keep comforting one another and building one another up, just as YOU are in fact doing."

JW's don't offer comfort, nor do they go to those being shunned or those who have been kicked out to build them up spiritually.
Isn't it best to do what is advantageous for all?
That would be build one another up, not tear one another down!
Thats one of the most ungodly things you can do to a person!
You can damage them mentally and emotionally, or break their hearts or even crush them spiritually!

SHAME ON YOU JW'S FOR TEARING PEOPLE DOWN INSTEAD OF BUILDING THEM UP!
Its a darned good thing GOD loves everyone and doesn't treat people like JW's treat people!!!

(Psalm 34:18) "Jehovah is near to those that are broken at heart; And those who are crushed in spirit he saves."

Go ahead and maliciously mistreat people, God will avenge them and He will save them!

"In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted. But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled."
Bay Area Man

Berkeley, CA

#99 Sep 17, 2013
I know or a fact how things are done in the JW Org. I was a dedicated Elder for 15 years and a JW for over 23. The Org does for a fact NOT allow you to associate with your DF or DA relatives. If you do it must be very secret and "under" the radar.
It is a sad and horrible experience for a human to go thru. The JW's always say they believe in freedom and freedom of religion but ONLY if it tis their religion! Here they want people to join their religion and try hard to convert and convince them that the religion of their birth or current religion is wrong and need to change to the JW way. Of course if ANY JW decides that the JW is wrong they are ostracized and DF immediately and their own Father and Mother are not allowed to EVER speak with them or if they do only in "emergency" situation! What Hog wash. I left bc I could No longer in good conscience sit their and not be able to Think on my own. I could not read the Bible and come to a different conclusion then the WT org. You MUST Follow every teaching and any change they DECIDE to make.They can do no wrong! It is filled with hypocrisy and Extreme pressure to conform to anything that you are told. I am sure in the next few years Tons of JW's will leave due to their "new" teaching of 1914. They will quiteley let that teaching die bc it is proven now with the test of time and biblical evidence that the entire 1914 teaching is built on falsehood and they are wrong about it. However, they will NEVER admit their mistake..they will just keep doing the flip flop on it and they will hope it just fades away.

“Family comes First”

Since: May 11

Weston super Mare

#100 Sep 17, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
They are taken directly from the Bible.
No they're not.

Trying to reason with you, Aneirin, is similar to trying to reason with Maggie Thatcher. Your mind's already made up and you won't listen to anything that doesn't agree with your preset opinions.

You know very well that the list of DF'ing offences stated in the elder's manual is way in excess of the list of possible shunning offences recorded in the Scriptures.

You also know very well that the actual application of shunning by elders is way in excess of how the Bible reccommends it be done.

You also know very well that anyone in Early Christian days who shunned someone would have had a say in how that person be treated.

You know very well too that anyone shunning someone else would know exactly what the person had done to warrant such treatment.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#101 Sep 17, 2013
Mikronboy wrote:
<quoted text>
No they're not.
Trying to reason with you, Aneirin, is similar to trying to reason with Maggie Thatcher. Your mind's already made up and you won't listen to anything that doesn't agree with your preset opinions.
You know very well that the list of DF'ing offences stated in the elder's manual is way in excess of the list of possible shunning offences recorded in the Scriptures.
You also know very well that the actual application of shunning by elders is way in excess of how the Bible reccommends it be done.
You also know very well that anyone in Early Christian days who shunned someone would have had a say in how that person be treated.
You know very well too that anyone shunning someone else would know exactly what the person had done to warrant such treatment.
RUBBISH.

Jehovah's Witnesses have carefully considered ALL the RELEVANT scriptures surrounding congregation discipline. Their ONLY motive it to implement the rules found in the Bible as accurately as possible.

Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT in it for the "money" because there isn't any. They are in it because they GENUINELY BELIEVE in the Bible.

Anyone who knows them WHO IS REMOTELY HONEST will admit that.

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