Mixed Martial Arts
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Randy

Cicero, NY

#1 Nov 9, 2013
I been into armature boxing, not professional. Nothing real heavy duty. But now I am taking mixed martial arts classes. Which involves a form of boxing, and grappling/bjj. When I was in as a JW, I knew of those who gave it up. Doing this does not involve worship to a god or there is incense. Lol. People wounder why I do it. It's smoothing to do, it different. It's a good work out. So what is the JW stance on this? If the elders found out do I get disfellowshipped?

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#2 Nov 10, 2013
From the Jehovah's Witnesses elder book, "Pay Attention to Yourselves and To All the Flock (1991) Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of PA (pp. 141-2):

“It is not in harmony with the spirit of 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 or Isaiah 2:4 for a Christian to learn karate, judo, or other martial arts.(Compare John 13:35, g75 12/8 pp. 28-9).

A brother would be disqualified as an elder, a ministerial servant, or a pioneer if he took up the study of such martial arts and practiced them.

A person publicly advocating such could be dealt with in line with 2 Thessalonians 3:13-15.

As in the case of a person who takes up professional boxing and continues in such a course, he would be expelled from the congregation.(w81 7/1 pp. 30-1).”

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#3 Nov 10, 2013
Randy wrote:
I been into armature boxing, not professional. Nothing real heavy duty. But now I am taking mixed martial arts classes. Which involves a form of boxing, and grappling/bjj. When I was in as a JW, I knew of those who gave it up. Doing this does not involve worship to a god or there is incense. Lol. People wounder why I do it. It's smoothing to do, it different. It's a good work out. So what is the JW stance on this? If the elders found out do I get disfellowshipped?
I am read some deceit in your statement:
"When I was in as a JW,..." states that you were a witness.
"If the elders found out do I get disfellowshipped?" states you are still a witness.

Which one are you, a witness or no longer a witness?

The question should not be what the witness think about it, the question should be, does God approve of MMA? Or any type of defensive/offensive training.

Boxing, MMA, and other forms of defensive/offensive training leads to one purpose only, that is the protection of one's life.

An OT law was written that one must defend one's self tooth for tooth and an eye for an eye.
Jesus stated that a tooth for tooth, an eye for an eye was no longer the law. He wrote a new law to replace it. It was the law of giving one's other cheek to be slapped if someone had slapped them.

Jesus offered up his life as an example for us to follow. He said love one another as I have loved you. For there is no greater love among you that of who lays down there life for another as I have laid down my life for you.

Steven, was the first to prove this love for Jesus and others by not protecting himself when he was stoned to death.

These defensive/offensive training practices conditions the body, mind, and spirit to defend oneself, which is contrary to what Jesus taught.
Randy

Cicero, NY

#4 Nov 10, 2013
Interesting comment didn't think of that. Let's say I was being rapped? Then what?

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#5 Nov 10, 2013
Randy wrote:
Interesting comment didn't think of that. Let's say I was being rapped? Then what?
Jesus was beaten to the point that he was unrecognizable as a man, and he was crucified.

I am quite sure you would agree these two events were in and of themselves far worse than rape.

Jesus had the power to call twelve legions of angels to protect him, yet, he didn't.

Rape is an act of dominance. The sexual aspect is just the result of the dominance. This however does not take away the pain, nor does it justify the act of rape.
art

London, UK

#6 Nov 10, 2013
God does would not approve of the martial arts? Maybe its a form of cheating.
Far better to be put to the sword. or turned into a pillar of salt.

But if the choice is joining the JW or doing martial arts traning. One is open for all to see and practice within rules laid down.

And the other is: Well all I would say is do your research online, of what other have found out:
that would be my thoughts

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#7 Nov 10, 2013
*** Isa 2:4 He will judge between the nations, and will decide concerning many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

NOTE: "neither shall they learn war any more"
Lol

Palo Alto, CA

#8 Nov 10, 2013
Some people practice martial arts for self-discipline and fitness. I guess it would be up to the individual to decide WHY they were practicing.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#9 Nov 11, 2013
Lol wrote:
Some people practice martial arts for self-discipline and fitness. I guess it would be up to the individual to decide WHY they were practicing.
Because its impossible to learn self discipline and fitness without learning how to damage other human beings..?

Give us a break.

A Christian will learn those things the Christian way.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#10 Nov 11, 2013
And a jehovahs witness would do what the good ole man Lot did, offer up his virgin daughters to be raped.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#11 Nov 11, 2013
No religion has the right to make absolute dogmatic statements regarding things like this...if anything, it should be discouraged by the fact of encouraging the positive (no "thou shalt not's").

If a religion wants to promote "God's will", they'd do well to encourage a determined action within the individual themselves (i.e. make it a conscience matter, but educate to the highest degree also).

Jesus didn't give a list of "do not do this and do not do that", he gave a choice of the better path - "what is better?". He said "let the good conquer the bad". This is very positive advice.

I myself, being well built/tall etc and having been into strength training since my teens (in a very advantages position to "throw my weight around") can see the wisdom in Jesus' advice. Not once have I felt the need to use my strengths against someone (other than protect my mother-in-law who was being man-handled by her drunk boyfriend). If you treat people with kindness, respect and understanding, 9 times out of 10 you will not need to resort to violence.

Even as a kid when older kids pick on you, if you've lived a Christian way of life (shown kindness and consideration for others), the chances are that you'll have twice as many on your side as the "enemy" does :)

I do see it from a logical point of view though, and I wouldn't judge either way.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#12 Nov 11, 2013
I would like to expand on the above post: I understand what it feels like to be judged by people who know nothing about a sport. If in your mind this sport is about:

> Self control

> Focus

> Reaching targets/goals

> A form of "art"

> Challenging yourself

> Improving yourself health-wise and skill-wise

> Winding down - letting off steam/releasing endorphins

> Socializing and having fun with others

Then in my mind, no-one has the right to judge you for this. It's your life (your God given free will), and you decide how you want to live it as long as it's not causing harm to others.

I would only question ones motives (e.g. it may not be healthy if it is motivated out of fear/insecurity or anger towards people). If that is the case then deeper issues need to be tackled anyway (rather than superficially "fixing it"). Also, if your sport is encouraging you to hate people, that's not healthy either. But that's up to you to decide, not anyone else.
Lol

Bakersfield, CA

#14 Nov 11, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Because its impossible to learn self discipline and fitness without learning how to damage other human beings..?
Give us a break.
A Christian will learn those things the Christian way.
Yes, I'm sure to you getting fit the "Christian" way is exercising those legs out in service.

Do you even know anyone who practices MA? Most are not doing it so they can beat people up. The ones who are in it for that are most likely not Christian to begin with.

There's nothing wrong with choosing how you want to become fit and feel good about yourself, this is just another area where the WTS tries to control people.

Randy

Cicero, NY

#15 Nov 11, 2013
Can't say I beat anyone up. Yep it's about self control. When we practice we take care not to hurt someone. Ya you will get punched, but so what. You could get tackled in football and get hurt

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#16 Nov 11, 2013
All these EXCUSES to learn violence.

None of it is fruitage of the spirit.
Remnant 143999

Albuquerque, NM

#17 Nov 12, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
All these EXCUSES to learn violence.
None of it is fruitage of the spirit.
Can a BAPTISED jw legaly carry a gun?

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#18 Nov 12, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
All these EXCUSES to learn violence.
None of it is fruitage of the spirit.
Who's condoning violence? If that's your opinion, keep it to yourself - that's YOUR conviction. You sound like some of the superstitious and fear mongering ancients who were scared to draw a picture for fear it would stir the wrath of God who might think it's "idolatry". You'll pick fault with everyone else just to sound spiritually superior.

I guess you would condemn kids games since many had "violent", "pagan" or "dark" pasts. Let's ban Ring a Ring o' Roses, since that's a game making light of death. Let's ban Wink Murder, since this is a game about MURDER (God'll hate our kids for playing this). Ever played Hangman as a kid? Well God hates you.

Let's ban Olympics sports for JWs since they have a Greek/pagan mythological origin.

Do you ever watch murder mysteries? Columbo is a very evil thing because it's "making entertainment out of violence". Would be best just not watching TV.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#19 Nov 12, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
All these EXCUSES to learn violence.
None of it is fruitage of the spirit.
On lurkers, read about the jw's violent fruitage of the spirit:

http://www.watchtowernews.org/familymurders.h...

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#20 Nov 12, 2013
Brother P wrote:
<quoted text>
Who's condoning violence? If that's your opinion, keep it to yourself - that's YOUR conviction. You sound like some of the superstitious and fear mongering ancients who were scared to draw a picture for fear it would stir the wrath of God who might think it's "idolatry". You'll pick fault with everyone else just to sound spiritually superior.
I guess you would condemn kids games since many had "violent", "pagan" or "dark" pasts. Let's ban Ring a Ring o' Roses, since that's a game making light of death. Let's ban Wink Murder, since this is a game about MURDER (God'll hate our kids for playing this). Ever played Hangman as a kid? Well God hates you.
Let's ban Olympics sports for JWs since they have a Greek/pagan mythological origin.
Do you ever watch murder mysteries? Columbo is a very evil thing because it's "making entertainment out of violence". Would be best just not watching TV.
What on earth are you going on about? Your imagination is unning away with you.
Randy

Cicero, NY

#21 Nov 12, 2013
What's your definition of vilance? What I learn is about self control, self respect and that of others. It good clean fun. How about hurtful gossip at the hall. How about being harassed at the KH. By your elde! Sure there not physical touching you, but how about mental and emotional violence? Oh I forgot there in perfect.

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