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“The proof is in the pudding!”

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#1
Dec 13, 2010
 

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We just don't worship him as Almighty God. We don't give Jesus Christ the worship only Jehovah God deserves.

(Matthew 4:10). . .Then Jesus said to him:“Go away, Satan! For it is written,‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”

What is worship? Deep adoration and devotion! Make no mistake about it, Jehovah's Witnesses deeply adore and are devoted to Christ! How?

We take his invitation "Come be my follower!" - Matthew 9:9

What is one way Jehovah's Witnesses primarily show there deep adoration and devotion (worhsip) to Christ, by being his follower?

We worship that same one he worshipped as Almighty God - Jehovah!!!

(John 14:31). . .in order for the world to know that I love the Father, even as the Father has given me commandment [to do], so I am doing. . .

Since: Sep 08

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#2
Dec 13, 2010
 

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Duh-boy wrote:
We just don't worship him as Almighty God. We don't give Jesus Christ the worship only Jehovah God deserves.
(Matthew 4:10). . .Then Jesus said to him:“Go away, Satan! For it is written,‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”
What is worship? Deep adoration and devotion! Make no mistake about it, Jehovah's Witnesses deeply adore and are devoted to Christ! How?
We take his invitation "Come be my follower!" - Matthew 9:9
What is one way Jehovah's Witnesses primarily show there deep adoration and devotion (worhsip) to Christ, by being his follower?
We worship that same one he worshipped as Almighty God - Jehovah!!!
(John 14:31). . .in order for the world to know that I love the Father, even as the Father has given me commandment [to do], so I am doing. . .
[1]Jesus never said, to worship Jehovah, In Matt 4: 10.
The Greek text says,
"Thou shalt worship,the Lord [Kurios] thy God [Theos]", NO MENTION OF JEHOVAH.

[2] If JWs deeply adore, And are devoted to Jesus, WHY DO YOU CALL HIM A LIAR???.

[3] You say you follow Jesus, BUT YOU DON'T, YOU FOLLOW THE JW ORGANISATION.

Since: Oct 10

Atlanta, GA

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#3
Dec 13, 2010
 
um...can you please explain why you'd worship a creature in light of the clear teaching of Matthew 4:10? In addition, do you honor a creature the same way you honor your creator?(John 5:23)

“The proof is in the pudding!”

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#4
Dec 13, 2010
 

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liberated wrote:
<quoted text>
[1]Jesus never said, to worship Jehovah, In Matt 4: 10.
The Greek text says,
"Thou shalt worship,the Lord [Kurios] thy God [Theos]", NO MENTION OF JEHOVAH.
[2] If JWs deeply adore, And are devoted to Jesus, WHY DO YOU CALL HIM A LIAR???.
[3] You say you follow Jesus, BUT YOU DON'T, YOU FOLLOW THE JW ORGANISATION.
Who exactly is Lord thy God? That's two titles; Lord and God! We all have names, so does God, in english his name is Jehovah, however, this is not the topic of discussion. There is plenty of other threads for that.

We have never called Jesus a liar, please stop being so vague. It is evident in the bible that Jesus is head of a congregation, that congregation being on earth. I believe that congregation is the Jehovah's Witnesses you do not, this is also not the topic of discussion.

Since: Sep 08

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#5
Dec 13, 2010
 

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The Apologetic Front wrote:
um...can you please explain why you'd worship a creature in light of the clear teaching of Matthew 4:10? In addition, do you honor a creature the same way you honor your creator?(John 5:23)
What in the world are you going on about??.

Born again Christians worship God in SPIRIT AND TRUTH. That is somthing that JWs can't do, because they don't have the Spirit or the truth.

“A voice of reason”

Since: Aug 09

Crooklyn

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#6
Dec 13, 2010
 

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Duh-boy wrote:
We just don't worship him as Almighty God. We don't give Jesus Christ the worship only Jehovah God deserves.
(Matthew 4:10). . .Then Jesus said to him:“Go away, Satan! For it is written,‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”
What is worship? Deep adoration and devotion! Make no mistake about it, Jehovah's Witnesses deeply adore and are devoted to Christ! How?
We take his invitation "Come be my follower!" - Matthew 9:9
What is one way Jehovah's Witnesses primarily show there deep adoration and devotion (worhsip) to Christ, by being his follower?
We worship that same one he worshipped as Almighty God - Jehovah!!!
(John 14:31). . .in order for the world to know that I love the Father, even as the Father has given me commandment [to do], so I am doing. . .
Wrong. The Watchtower forbids worship of Jesus. But until 1954, the Watchtower taught that Jesus was to be worshiped. For example, see:

11/15/1939 WT, p. 339: "Jehovah God commands all to worship Christ Jesus because Christ Jesus is the express image of his Father, Jehovah, and because he is the Executive Officer of Jehovah always carrying out Jehovah's purpose (Heb.:3-6)."

10/15/1945 WT, p. 313: "Now, at Christ's coming to reign as king in Jehovah's capital organization Zion, to bring in a righteous new world, Jehovah makes him infinitely higher than the godly angels or messengers and accordingly commands them to worship him. &#133; Since Jehovah God now reigns as King by means of his capital organization Zion, then whosoever would worship Him must also worship and bow down to Jehovah's Chief One in that capital organization, namely, Christ Jesus, his Co-regent on the throne of The Theocracy."

But the Watchtower flip-flopped on this doctrine in 1954. See 1/1/1954 WT, p. 31:

"Should we worship Jesus? &#133; Consequently, since the Scriptures teach that Jesus Christ is not a trinitarian co-person with God the Father, but is a distinct person, the Son of God, the answer to the above question must be that no distinct worship is to be rendered to Jesus Christ now glorified in heaven. Our worship is to go to Jehovah God. However, we show the proper regard for God's only-begotten Son by rendering our worship to God through and in the name of Jesus Christ. Even now when we kneel in prayer, as Paul did according to Ephesians 3:14-19, we offer prayer in the name of Jesus Christ in obedience to his own directions (John 15:16; 16:23-26), but the prayer itself is addressed, not to Jesus, but to God his Father. In this way we keep things in their relative positions."

“The proof is in the pudding!”

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#7
Dec 13, 2010
 

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The Apologetic Front wrote:
um...can you please explain why you'd worship a creature in light of the clear teaching of Matthew 4:10? In addition, do you honor a creature the same way you honor your creator?(John 5:23)
Having deep adoration and devotion to Jesus Christ is not creature worship in the sense that was condemned by Jehovah God. God himself is the one that exalted Jesus Christ. It is simply not the same as making a golden calf and bowing down to it.

Also we're not worshipping Jesus Christ as Almighty God or equal to God. Rather we have a sense of devotion to him because we recognize and deeply appreciate his role in God's will!

*** rs p. 283 par. 5 Organization ***

It fully recognizes the vital role of Jesus Christ in Jehovah’s purpose—as the vindicator of Jehovah’s sovereignty, the Chief Agent of life, the head of the Christian congregation, the ruling Messianic King.—Rev. 19:11-13; 12:10; Acts 5:31; Eph. 1:22, 23.

“The proof is in the pudding!”

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#8
Dec 13, 2010
 

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Olin Moyle wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong. The Watchtower forbids worship of Jesus. But until 1954, the Watchtower taught that Jesus was to be worshiped. For example, see:
11/15/1939 WT, p. 339: "Jehovah God commands all to worship Christ Jesus because Christ Jesus is the express image of his Father, Jehovah, and because he is the Executive Officer of Jehovah always carrying out Jehovah's purpose (Heb.:3-6)."
10/15/1945 WT, p. 313: "Now, at Christ's coming to reign as king in Jehovah's capital organization Zion, to bring in a righteous new world, Jehovah makes him infinitely higher than the godly angels or messengers and accordingly commands them to worship him. &#133; Since Jehovah God now reigns as King by means of his capital organization Zion, then whosoever would worship Him must also worship and bow down to Jehovah's Chief One in that capital organization, namely, Christ Jesus, his Co-regent on the throne of The Theocracy."
But the Watchtower flip-flopped on this doctrine in 1954. See 1/1/1954 WT, p. 31:
"Should we worship Jesus? &#133; Consequently, since the Scriptures teach that Jesus Christ is not a trinitarian co-person with God the Father, but is a distinct person, the Son of God, the answer to the above question must be that no distinct worship is to be rendered to Jesus Christ now glorified in heaven. Our worship is to go to Jehovah God. However, we show the proper regard for God's only-begotten Son by rendering our worship to God through and in the name of Jesus Christ. Even now when we kneel in prayer, as Paul did according to Ephesians 3:14-19, we offer prayer in the name of Jesus Christ in obedience to his own directions (John 15:16; 16:23-26), but the prayer itself is addressed, not to Jesus, but to God his Father. In this way we keep things in their relative positions."
The paragraph you quoted is in harmony with what I said. We worship Jehovah as Almighty God alone, not part of a trinity. Worship is deep adoration and devotion. No Jehovah's Witness denies being devoted and adoring Christ! We show proper regard or devotion for Jesus by doing what he said do. Prayer is addressed to Jehovah only, just as other sacred service because this is exactly what Jesus did!

“The proof is in the pudding!”

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#9
Dec 13, 2010
 

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Are there any professed JW's here who think my line of reasoning is dangerous?

Since: Sep 10

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#10
Dec 13, 2010
 

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Duh-boy wrote:
<quoted text>
Who exactly is Lord thy God? That's two titles; Lord and God! We all have names, so does God, in english his name is Jehovah, however, this is not the topic of discussion. There is plenty of other threads for that.
We have never called Jesus a liar, please stop being so vague. It is evident in the bible that Jesus is head of a congregation, that congregation being on earth. I believe that congregation is the Jehovah's Witnesses you do not, this is also not the topic of discussion.
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

“You REALLY believe that???”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

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#11
Dec 13, 2010
 

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TAF:"um...can you please explain why you'd worship a creature in light of the clear teaching of Matthew 4:10?

Mad: Try "show the highest honor" to the very one God has told the Angels to.

DB is absolutely correct! "WQorship" isn't some kinda magical incantation- it's showing the highest honor. God has commanded we show the same honor (worship) to Christ, as has always been shown to HIM!

“The proof is in the pudding!”

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Dec 13, 2010
 

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sceptic questioner wrote:
<quoted text>
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7
I strongly suggest you research that verse. Basically, those words were added. They are not in the oldest manuscripts.

Here:

*** rs p. 423 par. 1 Trinity ***

Regarding this Trinitarian passage, textual critic F. H. A. Scrivener wrote:“We need not hesitate to declare our conviction that the disputed words were not written by St. John: that they were originally brought into Latin copies in Africa from the margin, where they had been placed as a pious and orthodox gloss on ver. 8: that from the Latin they crept into two or three late Greek codices, and thence into the printed Greek text, a place to which they had no rightful claim.”—A Plain Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament (Cambridge, 1883, third ed.), p. 654.
e-watchman

Troy, MI

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#13
Dec 13, 2010
 

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The Apologetic Front wrote:
um...can you please explain why you'd worship a creature in light of the clear teaching of Matthew 4:10? In addition, do you honor a creature the same way you honor your creator?(John 5:23)
Jehovah appointed Jesus to the position of Lord of the universe. Jehovah will require every knee to bend to Jesus. However, Jesus will hand it all back to God after the 1,000 years have ended.

“You REALLY believe that???”

Since: Oct 07

Seattle, WA

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#14
Dec 13, 2010
 

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Very true, too, EW!

“A voice of reason”

Since: Aug 09

Crooklyn

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#15
Dec 13, 2010
 
Duh-boy wrote:
<quoted text>
The paragraph you quoted is in harmony with what I said. We worship Jehovah as Almighty God alone, not part of a trinity. Worship is deep adoration and devotion. No Jehovah's Witness denies being devoted and adoring Christ! We show proper regard or devotion for Jesus by doing what he said do. Prayer is addressed to Jehovah only, just as other sacred service because this is exactly what Jesus did!
Umm...ok. You say that we SHOULD worship Jesus, and the WT religious leaders say DON'T worship Jesus. Contradict much?

If it isn't clear enough already, see:

4/8/2000 Awake, p.26-27: "Reverent adoration should be expressed only to God. To render worship to anyone or anything else would be a form of idolatry, which is condemned in both the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures. &#133;.. Accordingly, true Christians do well to direct their worship only to Jehovah God, the Almighty."

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#16
Dec 13, 2010
 
Duh-boy wrote:
<quoted text>
I strongly suggest you research that verse. Basically, those words were added. They are not in the oldest manuscripts.
Here:
*** rs p. 423 par. 1 Trinity ***
Regarding this Trinitarian passage, textual critic F. H. A. Scrivener wrote:“We need not hesitate to declare our conviction that the disputed words were not written by St. John: that they were originally brought into Latin copies in Africa from the margin, where they had been placed as a pious and orthodox gloss on ver. 8: that from the Latin they crept into two or three late Greek codices, and thence into the printed Greek text, a place to which they had no rightful claim.”—A Plain Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament (Cambridge, 1883, third ed.), p. 654.
They were in the original manuscripts, YOU HAVE TO SAY THEY WEREN'T BECAUSE TO SAY THEY WERE WILL PROVE YOUR DOCTRINES WRONG.

“The proof is in the pudding!”

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#17
Dec 13, 2010
 

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Olin Moyle wrote:
<quoted text>
Umm...ok. You say that we SHOULD worship Jesus, and the WT religious leaders say DON'T worship Jesus. Contradict much?
If it isn't clear enough already, see:
4/8/2000 Awake, p.26-27: "Reverent adoration should be expressed only to God. To render worship to anyone or anything else would be a form of idolatry, which is condemned in both the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures. &#133;.. Accordingly, true Christians do well to direct their worship only to Jehovah God, the Almighty."
Again, this in harmony with what I posted. We don't express reverent adoration to Jesus. We show devotion and adoration (worship) to Jesus by expressing reverent adoration to the one Jesus Christ expressed reverent adoration - Jehovah God.

We don't worship Jesus Christ as Almighty God. Expressing reverent adoration to Jesus would be praying to Jesus. Prayer is exclusive to Jehovah. So we show adoration and devotion by listening to Jesus and praying to the one true God, Jehovah in the name of Jesus.

“You REALLY believe that???”

Since: Oct 07

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#18
Dec 13, 2010
 

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OM- you fail to realise that we have to use words churchoids can UNDERSTAND!

They can ONLY understand "worship' as some kind of magical gesture to God, altho their own KJV have people "worshipping" (showing the highest honor) to important people, and that in England "your worship" is frequently used instead of "your honor" here in the U.S..

So instead of using the word "worship", we now use "obeisance", so that all can UNDERSTAND!

“The proof is in the pudding!”

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#19
Dec 13, 2010
 

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liberated wrote:
<quoted text>
They were in the original manuscripts, YOU HAVE TO SAY THEY WEREN'T BECAUSE TO SAY THEY WERE WILL PROVE YOUR DOCTRINES WRONG.
I don't have to say anything I choose to, and you don't have to believe me. You can believe what you want to believe or take my advice and see for yourself.
Anonymous

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#20
Dec 13, 2010
 
JW's owe their very existence to Christ .

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