Paul says Jesus is Jehovah

“"Leave the dead horses alone"”

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#1835 Nov 29, 2012
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
ihv can i ask a few questions? well i will anyhow for the trolls
did the father resurrect JESUS
OR
did he resurrect himself?
OR
did the HOLY SPIRIT raise him?
OR
is it actually GOD who raised him?
before you answer let me warn that scriptures answers YES TO ALL FOUR QUESTIONS.
will
The father resurrected Jesus by means of holy spirit. Jesus was dead so could not resurrect himself. He did though have the authority to take up his spiritual body though due to his loyalty to his father and God Jehovah.

“"Leave the dead horses alone"”

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#1836 Nov 29, 2012
dee lightful wrote:
That's right Jesus was resurrected to life and is immortal. We all know this but JW's do not believe that for they are taught that his body just disintegrated ...so according to the WT he was not resurrected for there was nothing to resurrect.
Do you see the lie you were taught? And you went to an org of false teachers to learn a lie? That was not very wise of you.
We do believe he was resurrected to life and is immortal. It is just too easy for some people like you to say things on the net that just isn't true.

Here is what the bible and we really teaches:- http://www.jw.org/download/...
Rudi

Falkirk, UK

#1837 Nov 29, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
can we rephrase that? how about asking did the trinity die when Jesus died? or how about asking did the father die when the son died? especially if Jesus is equal to God. If Jesus IS God and equal to God, then it is that God died. or is it that the god man did NOT die?
I think you are playing the cat and mouse game again - you know that very well! And another thing, I think you should stop reading all rubbish the WTS is feeding you with and study more the Word of God. In that and only in that you will find eternal life.

The answer you are asking is plainly stated in the Bible! If you truly want to find it, you will earnestly look for it!
Rudi

Falkirk, UK

#1838 Nov 29, 2012
Gods Kingdom Rules wrote:
<quoted text> The father resurrected Jesus by means of holy spirit. Jesus was dead so could not resurrect himself. He did though have the authority to take up his spiritual body though due to his loyalty to his father and God Jehovah.
According to the Scriptures is the WRONG ANSWER, please try aagin!

Since: Aug 10

Blairgowrie, UK

#1839 Nov 29, 2012
Gods Kingdom Rules wrote:
The spirit goes back to Jehovah, that is the possibility of resurrection lies in the hands of Jehovah.
Are you saying the spirit does NOT go back to Jehovah? There is just the possibility of a re-created clone copy of what Jehovah remembers of that dead person?

Since: Aug 10

Blairgowrie, UK

#1840 Nov 29, 2012
ihveit wrote:
GOD CANNOT DIE.. he never died... GOD TOOK ON HUMAN FLESH ACCORDING TO JOHN
and in the end THE FLESH DIED.. NOT GOD!!!!!!!!!! i dont think anyone can put this any simpler..
My thoughts exactly.

God was manifest in a human body. The human body died. It's that simple.

Since: Aug 10

Blairgowrie, UK

#1841 Nov 29, 2012
Richardnak wrote:
With this viewpoint, you also have to view God Almighty as an angel, according to the inspired writers Peter and Paul.
I used to think you were one of the more reasonable people, presenting a reasonable argument.

Are you having an off day? This is meaningless garbled rubbish.

“"Leave the dead horses alone"”

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#1842 Nov 29, 2012
Mary MacLellan wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying the spirit does NOT go back to Jehovah? There is just the possibility of a re-created clone copy of what Jehovah remembers of that dead person?
The Bible states that when a person dies,“the spirit itself returns to the true God who gave it.”(Ecclesiastes 12:7) Does this mean that a spirit entity literally travels through space into God’s presence? Not at all! The way in which the Bible uses the word “returns” does not require an actual movement from one place to another. For instance, unfaithful Israelites were told:“‘Return to me, and I will return to you,’ Jehovah of armies has said.”(Malachi 3:7) Israel’s ‘returning’ to Jehovah meant a turning around from a wrong course and again conforming to God’s righteous way. And Jehovah’s ‘returning’ to Israel meant his turning favorable attention to his people once again. In both cases the “return” involved an attitude, not a literal displacement from one geographic location to another.

Similarly, at death no actual movement from the earth to the heavenly realm occurs when the spirit “returns” to God. Once the life-force is gone from a person, only God has the ability to restore it to him. So the spirit “returns to the true God” in the sense that any hope of future life for that person now rests entirely with God.

Consider, for example, what the Scriptures say about Jesus Christ’s death. The Gospel writer Luke relates:“Jesus called with a loud voice and said:‘Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit.’ When he had said this, he expired.”(Luke 23:46) As Jesus’ spirit went out of him, he was not literally on his way to heaven. Jesus was not resurrected from the dead until the third day, and it was 40 days later that he ascended to heaven.(Acts 1:3, 9) At the time of his death, however, Jesus confidently left his spirit in his Father’s hands, fully trusting in Jehovah’s ability to bring him back to life.- w01 7/15 5-6

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#1843 Nov 29, 2012
diogenes wrote:
<quoted text>
According to your own beliefs, jw's worship the true God. Jw's worship Jehovah (who you say is Jesus). Either way they worship the true God by default.
AMEN!!
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#1844 Nov 29, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text> At death a person ceases to exist. Before we go any further, do you believe this?
The body dies but not the soul according to scripture....therein is the lie you are taught.
.
Matthew 10:28 NIV
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
.
THE soul is alive and does not need resurrecting therefore it is the body that is resurrected to life and if the body has disintegrated there is nothing to resurrection.
.
Scripture tells us in Jesus own words that his body was resurrected.
Luke 24:39 ESV
39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. gTouch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”
.
John 20:27-29
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
.
Are you blessed because you don't put your faith in Jesus? Where is your faith if you disbelieve Jesus' own words? Truly look deep into yourself and see you have put your faith in false teachers and you are worse off then an atheist, for you know Jesus' words but you deny the truth of them.
.
You need to learn to trust what scriptures say esp when the WT says differently. Both are not right, so who is it that is teaching falsely? Scriptures or the WT/GB ?
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#1845 Nov 29, 2012
Gods Kingdom Rules wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible states that when a person dies,“the spirit itself returns to the true God who gave it.”(Ecclesiastes 12:7) Does this mean that a spirit entity literally travels through space into God’s presence? Not at all! The way in which the Bible uses the word “returns” does not require an actual movement from one place to another. For instance, unfaithful Israelites were told:“‘Return to me, and I will return to you,’ Jehovah of armies has said.”(Malachi 3:7) Israel’s ‘returning’ to Jehovah meant a turning around from a wrong course and again conforming to God’s righteous way. And Jehovah’s ‘returning’ to Israel meant his turning favorable attention to his people once again. In both cases the “return” involved an attitude, not a literal displacement from one geographic location to another.
Similarly, at death no actual movement from the earth to the heavenly realm occurs when the spirit “returns” to God. Once the life-force is gone from a person, only God has the ability to restore it to him. So the spirit “returns to the true God” in the sense that any hope of future life for that person now rests entirely with God.
Consider, for example, what the Scriptures say about Jesus Christ’s death. The Gospel writer Luke relates:“Jesus called with a loud voice and said:‘Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit.’ When he had said this, he expired.”(Luke 23:46) As Jesus’ spirit went out of him, he was not literally on his way to heaven. Jesus was not resurrected from the dead until the third day, and it was 40 days later that he ascended to heaven.(Acts 1:3, 9) At the time of his death, however, Jesus confidently left his spirit in his Father’s hands, fully trusting in Jehovah’s ability to bring him back to life.- w01 7/15 5-6
What you say is what Christian churches teach but that is not what the wt teaches.
.
LURKERS and BIBLE STUDIES
Now hear what this poster is not telling you is coming out of the other side of the WT mouth.
.
J.W.'s believe: That the life pattern (LP), or record of a person's life (also
the "personality") is recorded (duplicated) by God during the life of the person.
At the time of death, this LP is "retained" in God's memory. At the time of
resurrection, the LP is "reactivated" and put into a newly created body. Read the rest of the false teachings here...
http://www.witnessinc.com/resurrection.html
.
Does it really matter how the spirit returns to God as this poster spends many words on while he distracts from what the wt actually teaches?
.
The GB/WT is as clever as Satan in throwing in some truth among all the lies to hide the truth from the eyes of the unwary and innocent ones.
.
In this case Gods Kingdom (doesn't )Rule because for him the WT rules even when contradicting Gods' Holy Words.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#1846 Nov 29, 2012
Mary MacLellan wrote:
<quoted text>
I used to think you were one of the more reasonable people, presenting a reasonable argument.
Are you having an off day? This is meaningless garbled rubbish.
Hi Mary,

I was mistaken, it was Luke and Paul.

Luke recorded Stephen's speech, and refers to the accounts of Moses on Mt. Sinai.

Acts 7:30
New King James Version (NKJV)

30 “And when forty years had passed, an Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire in a bush, in the wilderness of Mount Sinai.

38 “This is he who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the Angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, the one who received the living oracles to give to us,

Hasn't the discussion said that this was Jesus speaking as YHWH that appeared to Moses in his pre-human role?

And then wasn't the account of this same one appearing to Abraham at the big trees of Mamre', said to be Jesus in his pre-human role?

Hebrews 13:2
New King James Version (NKJV)

2 Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels.

Both inspired writers are saying that this one that spoke with Moses and Abraham as YHWH, was an angel.

Is Jehovah an angel?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#1847 Nov 29, 2012
dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> What you say is what Christian churches teach but that is not what the wt teaches.
.
LURKERS and BIBLE STUDIES
Now hear what this poster is not telling you is coming out of the other side of the WT mouth.
.
J.W.'s believe: That the life pattern (LP), or record of a person's life (also
the "personality") is recorded (duplicated) by God during the life of the person.
At the time of death, this LP is "retained" in God's memory. At the time of
resurrection, the LP is "reactivated" and put into a newly created body. Read the rest of the false teachings here...
http://www.witnessinc.com/resurrection.html
.
Does it really matter how the spirit returns to God as this poster spends many words on while he distracts from what the wt actually teaches?
.
The GB/WT is as clever as Satan in throwing in some truth among all the lies to hide the truth from the eyes of the unwary and innocent ones.
.
In this case Gods Kingdom (doesn't )Rule because for him the WT rules even when contradicting Gods' Holy Words.
dee,

look at what you said, and look at what was posted that you replied to.

(you wrote>) "What you say is what Christian churches teach but that is not what the wt teaches."

The entire post was a quote from the WT 2001 July 15th issue.

Also the site you provided, didn't quote from any WT publications that I could see. They just have what they think we believe. Very misleading.
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#1848 Nov 29, 2012
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
dee,
look at what you said, and look at what was posted that you replied to.
(you wrote>) "What you say is what Christian churches teach but that is not what the wt teaches."
The entire post was a quote from the WT 2001 July 15th issue.
Also the site you provided, didn't quote from any WT publications that I could see. They just have what they think we believe. Very misleading.
That quote only proves what liars the WT'S actual are and that is what is very misleading.
WT quote,
The Society explains, "The word 'soul' as used in the Bible refers to a person or an animal or to the life that a person or an animal enjoys." Because the soul is simply life of a being, the soul ceases to exist after death.(What Happens to Us When We Die?, Brooklyn, NY: The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, 1998, p. 20.22)
SO, tell the board who is misleading whom when the WT quote from GKR says,the spirit returns to God in a different way than what is thought and then you have a WT quote that says the spirit or soul ceases to exist at death.
oTHER QUOTES THAT YOU WANTED TO SEE AS THOUGH YOU DIDN'T KNOW THEY EXISTED AND WANT TO MISLEAD READERS.
.
“…in his resurrection he ‘became a life-giving spirit.’ That was why for most of the time he was invisible to his faithful apostles… He needs no human body any longer… The human body of flesh, which Jesus Christ laid down forever as a ransom sacrifice, was disposed of by God’s power.”—“Things in Which it is Impossible for God to Lie,” pp. 332, 354. Jesus said otherwise. Jesus' blood was the sacrifice as blood is always used for atonement, not the body.
.
"...many persons believe that Christ took his fleshly body to heaven. They point to the fact that when Christ was raised from the dead, his fleshly body was no longer in the tomb (Mark 16:5-7). Also, after his death Jesus appeared to his disciples in a fleshly body to show them that he was alive. Once He even had the apostle Thomas put his hand into the hole in His side so that Thomas would believe that He had actually been resurrected (John 20:24-27) Does this not prove that Christ was raised alive in the same body in which he was put to death? No it does not." (You Can Live Forever on Paradise Earth, pp. 143-144).
.
"...the man Jesus is dead, forever dead..." (The Atonement Between God and Man, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 5, 1899, p. 454).
.
"...the bodies in which Jesus manifested himself to the disciples after his return to life were not the body in which he was nailed to the tree." (The Kingdom is at Hand, 1944, p. 259).
'
"The human body of flesh, which Jesus Christ laid down forever as a ransom sacrifice, was disposed of by God's power..." (Things in Which it is Impossible for God to Lie, 1965, p. 354)
.
"Disposing of Jesus' physical body at the time of his resurrection presented no problem for God." (Reasoning From the Scriptures, 1989, p. 217).
.
That God disposed of the body of Jesus is the usual reply from Jehovah's Witnesses when asked about this subject. However, there are some rare instances when the Watchtower have expanded on this explanation, as the following quotation reveals that Jesus' fleshly body...
"was disposed of by Jehovah God, dissolved into its constituent elements or atoms." (The Watchtower, 1st October 1955, p. 518. Emphasis added.).
.
See Luke 24:39-43;John 20:25-27; Matt 28:9; 1Cor 15:20,53-54
.
JW's do not know the difference between the body, soul and spirit because they do not read scriptures in context. They read in Genesis
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
So they are confused by Matt 10:28 so they just ignore how the context changes and means something entirely different.
28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One(A) who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Since: Jan 12

United States

#1849 Nov 29, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text> God can make stones cry out if He wants to. Jesus died. He was not God in the shape of a man when he was on the earth. God resurrected him. God loved Jesus very much and brought him back to life in a more glorious form.
hey look folks, misredorded admits GOD makes the rocks cry out if need be, but out the other side of his mouth he claims the holy spirit is just a force, definately not god thinking and speaking.
isn't that neat?

and then he claims god can't send a part of himself out, as in the case of jesus the word..... he claims it has to be all or nothing, and god can't die so it wasn't god!!!..... isn't that neat too?

i'm sure glad the apostle paul wasn't confused about the whole issue of who jesus was in heb 1.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#1850 Nov 29, 2012
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you are playing the cat and mouse game again - you know that very well! And another thing, I think you should stop reading all rubbish the WTS is feeding you with and study more the Word of God. In that and only in that you will find eternal life.
The answer you are asking is plainly stated in the Bible! If you truly want to find it, you will earnestly look for it!
lol, the church "fathers" had trouble finding a trinity, why should it be easy? what IS easier is what the Bible.says, and I'm sticking with those who truly have God's spirit, use God's name, understand who the Son is, and God had set me free from the Babylonish doctrines in all your multiple religions! praise Jah!

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#1851 Nov 29, 2012
Mary MacLellan wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying the spirit does NOT go back to Jehovah? There is just the possibility of a re-created clone copy of what Jehovah remembers of that dead person?
nope, God resurrects the PERSON, something you evidently have a problem with understanding.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#1852 Nov 29, 2012
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you are playing the cat and mouse game again - you know that very well! And another thing, I think you should stop reading all rubbish the WTS is feeding you with and study more the Word of God. In that and only in that you will find eternal life.
The answer you are asking is plainly stated in the Bible! If you truly want to find it, you will earnestly look for it!
So only the flesh of God died, according to your theory.
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#1853 Nov 29, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text> nope, God resurrects the PERSON, something you evidently have a problem with understanding.
Are you aware that that is not what the WT teaches?
.
They say the PERSON was not resurrected for it was a replica,a clone, that was a mere spirit even though Jesus said he was not a spirit and had a body of flesh and bones.
.
Are you aware of the following WT quotes or do you just ignore them because the double talk is to confusing ?
.

"...the man Jesus is dead, forever dead..." (The Atonement Between God and Man, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 5, 1899, p. 454).
.
"...the bodies in which Jesus manifested himself to the disciples after his return to life were not the body in which he was nailed to the tree." (The Kingdom is at Hand, 1944, p. 259).
'
"The human body of flesh, which Jesus Christ laid down forever as a ransom sacrifice, was disposed of by God's power..." (Things in Which it is Impossible for God to Lie, 1965, p. 354)
.
"Disposing of Jesus' physical body at the time of his resurrection presented no problem for God." (Reasoning From the Scriptures, 1989, p. 217).
.
That God disposed of the body of Jesus is the usual reply from Jehovah's Witnesses when asked about this subject. However, there are some rare instances when the Watchtower have expanded on this explanation, as the following quotation reveals that Jesus' fleshly body...
"was disposed of by Jehovah God, dissolved into its constituent elements or atoms." (The Watchtower, 1st October 1955, p. 518.).
.
Your confusion is understandable when you get conflicting information.That is when you need to follow the scriptures alone, and in context, then you will finally understand the truth and see the lies of self proclaimed men who say they are necessary for your salvation when Jesus said he is the only way.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#1854 Nov 29, 2012
dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> The body dies but not the soul according to scripture....therein is the lie you are taught.
.
Matthew 10:28 NIV
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
.
THE soul is alive and does not need resurrecting therefore it is the body that is resurrected to life and if the body has disintegrated there is nothing to resurrection.
.
Scripture tells us in Jesus own words that his body was resurrected.
Luke 24:39 ESV
39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. gTouch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”
.
John 20:27-29
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
.
Are you blessed because you don't put your faith in Jesus? Where is your faith if you disbelieve Jesus' own words? Truly look deep into yourself and see you have put your faith in false teachers and you are worse off then an atheist, for you know Jesus' words but you deny the truth of them.
.
You need to learn to trust what scriptures say esp when the WT says differently. Both are not right, so who is it that is teaching falsely? Scriptures or the WT/GB ?
so in cases other than Jesus, let's say a body that is burned up, you think that there is nothing to resurrect?

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