Paul says Jesus is Jehovah

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#4282 Feb 2, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Answering you with accuracy I will use the original Greek , used for 'GOD"..Jehovah's name is not used in the first sentence of John..where did you get that from??
"In the beginning the WORD was with TON THEON, and the WORD was THEOS . this one was in the beginning with ton theon'
so the ton theon describing the Father .. ton..meaning THE.
So knowing from scripture that there are many called gods..i dont have a problem with Jesus being called a god..but to us there is only one "TRUE" GOD, called "THE ONLY TRUE GOD" is the Father.
Show me your credentials. Do you have a degree and if so, please give a list of manuscripts you worked on in the koine language?

@@@@@@@@

As for God's name, I shouldn't have put in the YHWH, I am trying to hard to use the Jewish name for God as YHWH and that is my error. I apologize for that.

The link for the Greek Interlinear Translation.
http://interlinearbible.org/john/1-1.htm

The Orthodox Jewish Brit Chadasha
John 1:1 Bereshis (In the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [Yeshayah 55:11; Bereshis 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [Mishle 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim![Tehillim 56:11(10); Yochanan 17:5; Rev. 19:13]
dee lightful

Easley, SC

#4283 Feb 2, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
See that's the difference between you and me Dee..I believe in the beginning..means in the beginning..whilst you supplant it with a word 'originally' but even then 'origin' means the 'start of something'
And there is no disagreement that Jesus is the START of Godthe Fathers way.
In the beginning does mean originally and that is the meaning if you could read in context.
.
i wasn't talking about Jesus...before Jesus there was the WORD...at the beginning the WORD was not begotten but originally with God the whole time.
.
That is the difference between you and me LL i don't have false doctrines implanted in my head and can comprehend scriptures to know the difference between the WORD and the human Jesus.
Something no JW can get their mind around as they have too much confusion about who and what is the WORD,the begotten Son and a created angel Michael, one of many like himself. JW's have no choice but to believe the flip flopping false prophets. of course they could learn to read in context but they are not allowed to do that even though scriptures tell them to make sure what they are told is scriptural. They don't listen to God when they listen to false teachers.
little lamb

Australia

#4284 Feb 2, 2013
HopeReigns wrote:
<quoted text>
LL, do you believe any of these bible verses? The scholars for these bibles are transparent, you can investigate their qualifications. No one can investigate the qualifications of the scholars for NWT.
I believe the WORD was YHWH the One and Only GOD.

American King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
American Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Douay-Rheims Bible
IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Darby Bible Translation
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
English Revised Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Webster's Bible Translation
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Weymouth New Testament
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
World English Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Young's Literal Translation
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;
So until the NWT scholars are known and their credentials are investigated. A check and balance, so to speak, with other scholars for why verses were changed and words added or taken away. I truly feel it's not a bible that is safe to use to teach or preach from.
Sorry had to cut some out ..to post..

Don't have a problem with any of those translations Hope

Jesus already answered the fact ..that those whom the WORD comes along are called 'gods''theos'

So the fact the WORD is called 'god' is no problem because there are 'many called god 'theos'

I believe all scriptures are inspired of God and are beneficial for teaching reproving ......

So even people whose translation says 'god' instead of 'a god' are no problem for a christian...because God is over all his works..and Jesus is our TEACHER..we all are given the Holy Spirit and he leads us into all TRUTH

" he who has much will be given more , and he who has little, will lose what little he has."

he that waters others freely will be freely watered"

God will see you get the information if you love him."

our knowledge of God and Christ is a spiritual growth..God loves his children ..he leads us ..some may grow faster then others, but Jesus is the great shepherd of the flock, with the BLOOD of the covenant"

and its the new covenant where God promises to become our God and we his people..so many people who are religious but not in the covenant relationship are going to be confused as to who is God because he doesn't promise people outside his covenant to be his people...and they are also going to be confused in the fact Jesus is our mediator between God and men..

So the confuse-ment is great because of Babylon the great.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#4285 Feb 2, 2013
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
NO, in Genesis 19:24 it syas "Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;" (KJV), both 'LORDs' are in capitals, which means 'YAHWEH'.
Not in the Easy-To-Read Version.

ERV Gen 19:24 and the LORD began to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. He caused fire and burning sulfur to fall from the sky.

And not in the Good News Bible.

Gen 19:24 Suddenly the LORD rained burning sulfur on the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah

And not the Contemporary English Version.

Gen 19:24 and the LORD sent burning sulfur down like rain on Sodom and Gomorrah.

I used these examples to show some interesting problems translating from another language when you have a word-for-word translation as opposed to a thought-for-thought translation.

Let's examine your claim that YAHWEH on earth at 19:24 is Jesus while YAHWEH in heaven is the Father. Or vice versa.

Whoever you claim is on earth at Genesis 19:24, is it the same identity as Yahweh who was standing before Abraham at 18:22 while the two angels went to Sodom?

Actually Rudi, when we read the account in Genesis 19 carefully, we find that it is THE ANGELS who will destroy Sodom. Just REWIND A BIT to verses 12-14!

Gen 19:12 The two angels said to Lot, "The LORD has heard many terrible things about the people of Sodom, and he has sent us here to destroy the city. Take your family and leave. Take every relative you have in the city, as well as the men your daughters are going to marry." 14 Lot went to the men who were engaged to his daughters and said, "Hurry and get out of here! The LORD is going to destroy this city." But they thought he was joking, and they laughed at him.

Rudi, THIS IS IMPORTANT! Did you notice?

"THE TWO ANGELS SAID to Lot ... and HE [GOD YAHWEH] HAS SENT US HERE to destroy the city."

Still sticking to your dogma that it is Yahweh Jesus and Yahweh the Father upon this evidence?

I won't press this further because even you see what's seriously wrong with your claim. There is absolutely no evidence that The Father or Jesus rained fire and brimstone down on Sodom and Gomorrah. The angels REPRESENTED the One God YHWH!

Nah, let me press this anyway because you need it.

Carefully observe who destroys Sodom: Yahweh (v.24). Now, carefully observe who says they will destroy Sodom: the two angels (v.13). Now, carefully observe how Lot understands the angels when they tell him they will destroy Sodom. When the angels say they will destroy Sodom, Lot understands this to mean Yahweh will destroy Sodom (v. 14).

It should be quite clear that these two angels are FROM Yahweh who rains down brimstone and fire. In other words, as sons of God, sons of Yahweh, we are to understand these angels ARE REPRESENTING Yahweh.

Now, I'm waiting for you to go on record and dismiss all this. This is so I can bring up another example of how angels REPRESENT Yahweh. I like to show how you have a habit of automatically dismissing Scriptural evidence to favor your dogma.

Sorry for taking my tone up a couple of notches with you but after circling this merry-go-round at least twice, I think it is necessary .. unfortunately.

Thanks.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#4286 Feb 2, 2013
Claude Kenneson wrote:
<quoted text>
Cornelius was a proselyte of the type called "those who fear God" (Acts 10:2, who accepted the Jewish Law but did not become full members of the Jewish community by circumciwsion. Cornelius was visited by an angel while he was at prayer and directed to summon Peter. Are you telling me that Cornelius did not know that only God is to be worshiped and that he imagined Peter to be God?
Can you show where in Acts supports you claim that Cornelius worshipped the angel and Peter?
Claude Kenneson wrote:
<quoted text>
Likewise with John, he didn't know the difference between God and an angel and that worship belongs only to God?
The Pharisees wanted to kill Jesus because they were not his disciples. The blind man, on the other hand, equates himself to a disciple. Moreover, he put his faith in Jesus; they did not.
I don't understand how you are claiming that with John 8:35-39. That's why I quoted it. How is worshipped rendered other to God at this passage?

John 8:35 A slave is not a permanent member of the family, but a son is part of the family forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you are truly free. 37 Yes, I realize that you are descendants of Abraham. And yet some of you are trying to kill Me because there's no room in your hearts for My message. 38 I am telling you what I saw when I was with My Father. But you are following the advice of your father." Joh 8:39 "Our father is Abraham!" they declared. "No," Jesus replied, "for if you were really the children of Abraham, you would follow his example.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#4287 Feb 2, 2013
Claude Kenneson wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you calling forced submission to God faith?
How did you get that wrong idea?

I said that Nebuchadnezzar had faith in God but we have no record of Nebuchadnezzar worshipping Him.

It is not revealed that Nebuchadnezzar may or may not have added Jehovah as one of the G/gods he worshipped. Nor how Nebuchadnezzar expressed his worship if he did; certainly not in the Jewish way.

But definitely Jehovah was a God Nebuchadnezzar respected!

:)
Claude Kenneson

Tallahassee, FL

#4288 Feb 2, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe in Proverbs 8 [24' " ....I was brought forth with labor pains.
And carefully concealed in Jesus is all the wisdom of God.
First of all, this is not talking about Jesus' human birth through Mary. In eternity God NEVER literally gave birth in labor pains. All of Prov. 8 is figurative speech showing how God USED Wisdom to create all things. Wisdom needed no creation from the outside of God because it eternally existed within Him. It's not saying that Wisdom was made as JW's imagine.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#4289 Feb 2, 2013
Claude Kenneson wrote:
<quoted text>
Does the Word of God exist when God is not "speaking"? Was there ever a time when God was mute? Or, is the Word of God as eternal as God? The Word of God is definitely not a creation of God. Jesus IS the Word of God.
I think that until God said something, the Word didn't exist. I'll find it interesting how you can imagine the word can exist when the mouth hasn't uttered it ... yet.

Now, if you want to suppose that the Word existed in God's mind before He uttered it, then God has to first form the Word into mental existence before He uttered it into metaphysical existence.

:)

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#4290 Feb 2, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry had to cut some out ..to post..
Don't have a problem with any of those translations Hope
Jesus already answered the fact ..that those whom the WORD comes along are called 'gods''theos'
So the fact the WORD is called 'god' is no problem because there are 'many called god 'theos'
I believe all scriptures are inspired of God and are beneficial for teaching reproving ......
So even people whose translation says 'god' instead of 'a god' are no problem for a christian...because God is over all his works..and Jesus is our TEACHER..we all are given the Holy Spirit and he leads us into all TRUTH
" he who has much will be given more , and he who has little, will lose what little he has."
he that waters others freely will be freely watered"
God will see you get the information if you love him."
our knowledge of God and Christ is a spiritual growth..God loves his children ..he leads us ..some may grow faster then others, but Jesus is the great shepherd of the flock, with the BLOOD of the covenant"
and its the new covenant where God promises to become our God and we his people..so many people who are religious but not in the covenant relationship are going to be confused as to who is God because he doesn't promise people outside his covenant to be his people...and they are also going to be confused in the fact Jesus is our mediator between God and men..
So the confuse-ment is great because of Babylon the great.
I am sorry, but I don't see confusion in the scriptures. I don't see confusion in GOD inhabiting eternity. I don't see confusion that GOD/WORD is the alpha and the omega/everlasting to everlasting/I AM. I don't see confusion that GOD's WORD is GOD.

I find comfort in knowing and believing that GOD is omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence and ALL things are possible with Him.

Quick question with a Yes/No Answer: Do you believe that GOD in John 1:1 is YHWH?

Agape
Hope

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#4291 Feb 2, 2013
Claude Kenneson wrote:
P.S. Jesus comes from within God, is of God and from God and is not something created by God.
I know that's what you claim but that's just your claim.

Remember, Jesus is the Son of God, Progeny of God, Begotten of God, Creation of God.

Jehovah is his Father, Sire, Begetter, Creator.

:)

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#4292 Feb 2, 2013
Claude Kenneson wrote:
<quoted text>
I find it strange that you would argue that there are 2 Saviors, 2 Lords, 2 Kings but not 2 Gods.
That's Biblical monotheism for ya! One Jehovah God only!

:)
little lamb

Australia

#4293 Feb 2, 2013
HopeReigns wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me your credentials. Do you have a degree and if so, please give a list of manuscripts you worked on in the koine language?
@@@@@@@@
As for God's name, I shouldn't have put in the YHWH, I am trying to hard to use the Jewish name for God as YHWH and that is my error. I apologize for that.
The link for the Greek Interlinear Translation.
http://interlinearbible.org/john/1-1.htm
The Orthodox Jewish Brit Chadasha
John 1:1 Bereshis (In the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [Yeshayah 55:11; Bereshis 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [Mishle 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim![Tehillim 56:11(10);
Yochanan 17:5; Rev. 19:13]
I am so thankful i have no credentials FROM MEN

Being a Believer my credentials are from God...his WORD.. who is his authority.. informs me

2 Corinthians 3 [5] not that we of ourselves are adequately qualified as reckoning anything as issuing from ourselves, but our being adequately qualified issues from god

[6] who has indeed adequately qualified us to be ministers of a new covenant, not of a written code but of spirit for the written code condemns to death but the spirit makes alive..'

so I BELIEVE my God and I don't BELIEVE he lies ..so you will have to tell him you don't believe his word..I wouldn't dare.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#4294 Feb 2, 2013
Boni wrote:

So tell all us here that Jude 9 DOES NOT SAY that Michael is the archangel. Bet you can't argue against that. So we have Jude 9 saying that Michael is the archangel.
dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> Jude 9
Jude 1:9 NIV
But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"
. jUDE 9 tells us Michael could not do what only Jesus could do and therefore Michael, an angel can not be Jesus, a Mighty God.
You read into scriptures what is not there, Boni!
You really don't want to admit it even when you quote it yourself!

Let me quote it from the KJV. You know the KJV, right? It is the Bible you like? Certainly not the one you used above to HIDE the fact that Michael is the archangel.

KJV Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

See that? "Michael the archangel" IN THE KJV!

There Dee! Aren't you glad I'm here to keep you honest?

Now, Dee, in reaction I fully expect you to rant all sorts of ugly and bellicose things about me and the WTS in the morning!

LOL!
Claude Kenneson

Tallahassee, FL

#4295 Feb 2, 2013
Boni wrote:
<quoted text>
I think that until God said something, the Word didn't exist. I'll find it interesting how you can imagine the word can exist when the mouth hasn't uttered it ... yet.
Now, if you want to suppose that the Word existed in God's mind before He uttered it, then God has to first form the Word into mental existence before He uttered it into metaphysical existence.
:)
And so there are those who believe that the Word existed only in God's mind as His plan and did not exist literally until Jesus' physical human birth. That would rule out pre-existence.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#4296 Feb 2, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
I am so thankful i have no credentials FROM MEN
Being a Believer my credentials are from God...his WORD.. who is his authority.. informs me
2 Corinthians 3 [5] not that we of ourselves are adequately qualified as reckoning anything as issuing from ourselves, but our being adequately qualified issues from god
[6] who has indeed adequately qualified us to be ministers of a new covenant, not of a written code but of spirit for the written code condemns to death but the spirit makes alive..'
so I BELIEVE my God and I don't BELIEVE he lies ..so you will have to tell him you don't believe his word..I wouldn't dare.
((chuckles softly))

Nope...scriptures and just the scriptures.

I know YHWH isn't a liar or one to twists word to entrap His people into something false. For His scriptures are Inspired, they are holy words (full of life) given to us today so we too can find our personal relationship with YHWH.

Agape
Hope

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#4297 Feb 2, 2013
Claude Kenneson wrote:
<quoted text>
And so there are those who believe that the Word existed only in God's mind as His plan and did not exist literally until Jesus' physical human birth. That would rule out pre-existence.
That's them. We're not talking about them, right?

How about you? Do you not believe in Jesus' pre-human existence? Please confirm either way.

Thanks.
Claude Kenneson

Tallahassee, FL

#4298 Feb 2, 2013
Boni wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you show where in Acts supports you claim that Cornelius worshipped the angel and Peter?
<quoted text>
I don't understand how you are claiming that with John 8:35-39. That's why I quoted it. How is worshipped rendered other to God at this passage?
John 8:35 A slave is not a permanent member of the family, but a son is part of the family forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you are truly free. 37 Yes, I realize that you are descendants of Abraham. And yet some of you are trying to kill Me because there's no room in your hearts for My message. 38 I am telling you what I saw when I was with My Father. But you are following the advice of your father." Joh 8:39 "Our father is Abraham!" they declared. "No," Jesus replied, "for if you were really the children of Abraham, you would follow his example.
Oh, I'm sorry. I must have hit the wrong keys. I meant John 9:25-39 Now see if you understand what I was saying.
Claude Kenneson

Tallahassee, FL

#4299 Feb 2, 2013
Boni wrote:
<quoted text>
That's them. We're not talking about them, right?
How about you? Do you not believe in Jesus' pre-human existence? Please confirm either way.
Thanks.
I do believe in his pre-human existence.
Claude Kenneson

Tallahassee, FL

#4300 Feb 2, 2013
Boni wrote:
<quoted text>
I think that until God said something, the Word didn't exist. I'll find it interesting how you can imagine the word can exist when the mouth hasn't uttered it ... yet.
Now, if you want to suppose that the Word existed in God's mind before He uttered it, then God has to first form the Word into mental existence before He uttered it into metaphysical existence.
:)
If God has the capability of speech then he is not mute; he might not be exercising it at every moment. The first instance that I find of God "saying" things is in Gen. 1. But I think this is anthropomorphical speech. Does God really have a mouth and tongue and face, etc. so that he is human in appearance?

“email at ihveit@aol.com ”

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#4301 Feb 2, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of Elohim?
No problem with this Hope..believe Jesus is Gods SON.
Also believe Jesus said " 34 YAHUSHUA answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are elohim?
35 If he called them elohim, unto whom the word of YHWH came, and the scripture cannot be broken;'
in informing us that people whom the word of Jehovah comes are called 'gods' as well
So whats your point?
Most witnesses believe Jesus is a God.
ihv actually ALL WITNESSES must believe JESUS is "A" god THEY ARE ALL WRONG
the jews of THAT DAY knew exactly what JESUS was claiming.. the understood the language much better than we do today.. after his next statement they still wanted to kill him THEY KNEW WHAT HE WAS CLAIMING.. JUST as they did here>>>>
Lu 5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
Lu 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
Lu 5:22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts?
Lu 5:23 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?
Lu 5:24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins,(he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
ihv ohhh i know.. god gave him the power... BUT HE DIDNT SAY THAT DID HE?
will

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