Paul says Jesus is Jehovah

“email at ihveit@aol.com ”

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#2699 Dec 30, 2012
Boni wrote:
<quoted text>
With an attitude for God like that, I'm glad the Opposition has you as one of their members.
Christians that don't share your attidude about God are happy that He gave his Son to save us.
John 3:16 For God loved the world so much that He gave His one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.
:)
ihv another one pumping herself up with pride
will

“email at ihveit@aol.com ”

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#2700 Dec 30, 2012
dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> But your masters say Jesus was not sent save you, he is not your mediator, for only belonging to an org of men are your saved and that again denies Jesus Christ. According to the WT only your belief in the org will give you everlasting life. You quote John 3:16 but don't actually believe the bible because it contradicts the WTS.
Satan is very good at quoting scriptures that he doesn't follow nor does he want you to follow, rather he wants JW's to follow the false teachers and the false prophets as they give lip service to scriptures and then ignore them.
ihv what really interesting is the jws dont look at the next verses:
. 18 He that exercises faith in him is not to be judged. He that does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God

and jws lets remember to exercise faith in JEUS he says YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN... and without this faith

YOU ARE JUDGED ALREADY...

BUT YOU CAN CHANGE THAT IN AN INSTANT..

turn to JESUS in prayer.. its that easy

that false religion will not save you
will

“email at ihveit@aol.com ”

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#2701 Dec 30, 2012
dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> But your masters say Jesus was not sent save you, he is not your mediator, for only belonging to an org of men are your saved and that again denies Jesus Christ. According to the WT only your belief in the org will give you everlasting life. You quote John 3:16 but don't actually believe the bible because it contradicts the WTS.
Satan is very good at quoting scriptures that he doesn't follow nor does he want you to follow, rather he wants JW's to follow the false teachers and the false prophets as they give lip service to scriptures and then ignore them.
ihv before they deny this let me quote from theeir perverted wt:
4/1/79 Watchtower pp. 31
"Jesus is the mediator only for the anointed Christians....The 'great crowd'....is not in that new covenant."

JWS YUOU HAVE NO MEDIATOR.. the socity has become this to you..

want a quote on that too?
will

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#2702 Dec 30, 2012
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
Please could you tell me which passage did I misquote from KJV?
I see only one picture with God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
I might be chasing rabbits, but you are hoovering the dust under the sea.
In John 1:18 are two Gods and Jesus is One of them. I know you don't like it but the Word is God not 'a god' as you believe.
It is the same in John 1:1c where 'theos' is God not 'a god', but the WTS translators have distorted it to strip the Deity of Jesus Christ!
In Amos 4:11 and Isaiah 48:12,16, for example, we have two Gods, but you refuse to acknowledge that. Whether it is the KJV or the NWT (or any other translation), there is a mount full of evidence which reveal Jesus and the Holy Spirit as God, but you reject those truths.
I don't accept the NWT as an honest and accurate translation, but rather a 'satanic book' which is made up by some JW non-scholars to support their own doctrine.
I don't think it is worth raesoning anymore with JWs from the Scriptures since you, JWs, are so blinded that you, JWs, just can't see.
Even God the Father can't convince you since you are so brainwashed and indoctrinated by the WTS falsehoods. But the day of Jesus second is approaching and can only pray that ypu would wake up before is too late!
Rudi,

Here is a portion of your post where you allegedly quote the KJV;

(You posted>)The whole Bible testifies about the Deity of Jesus Christ which you willingly ignore and deny!

In Amos 4:11, KJV, I read, "I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the Lord." Two Gods? Who is the 'God' and the 'Lord' in Amos 4:11?
Here is how the KJV actually reads;
Amos 4:11 (KJV)
“ I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD.”

“LORD signifies Jehovah, not Jesus. Jehovah God overthrew those cities.

Here is another portion of your post:

“Also, in Isaiah 48: 12 and 16, KJV, I read, "12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me." Two 'Gods' and three separate Beings? Who is the 'I am he...the first...and the last' and who is the 'Lord God'?”

Both of these are Jehovah God, and Isaiah speaks last and says that God has sent him and that he has God’s spirit as direction.

Isa 48:16 (KJV) Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

The introduction to the reader, in My KJV says:

Whenever the words “GOD” and “LORD” occur in all capital letters, the name in the original Hebrew is Jehovah/YHWH.

Jehovah is speaking in verse 12, as evidenced by the times in the previous verses we see “LORD” in all capitals in verses 1 and 2, and this one makes reference to His name in verses 2 and 11.

The “first and the last” here speaking, identifies himself for us at Isa 44:6:

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
(The KJV kinda butchers this verse, but we get the idea by comparing better renderings.)

Isaiah 44:6 New English Translation (NET)
This is what the LORD, Israel’s king, says,
their protector, the LORD who commands armies:
“I am the first and I am the last,
there is no God but me.

We see nothing of Jesus being mentioned in any of these verses.
Lannymac

United States

#2703 Dec 30, 2012
Boni wrote:
<quoted text>
With an attitude for God like that, I'm glad the Opposition has you as one of their members....:)
Dude please, I can take any attitude I want with your comic book deities...THEY DON'T EXIST!

Well, except in the minds of cult clowns.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#2704 Dec 30, 2012
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
Hebrews 1:8 should read "The throne of you the God 'IS' into the age of the age" (forever and ever) not "The throne of you 'IS' the God"!
Rudi,

Even in this form, it doesn't place the Son as God.

"The throne of you the God 'IS' into the age of the age"
Lannymac

United States

#2705 Dec 30, 2012
Boni wrote:
<quoted text>
No matter how you want to re-write Hebrews 1:8, it still says that Jesus' throne is his God.
Yeah right, only in the minds of rebellious truth despisers, like you.

Talk about desperate to believe a lie.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#2706 Dec 30, 2012
Rudi wrote:
<quoted text>
Please could you tell me which passage did I misquote from KJV?
I see only one picture with God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
I might be chasing rabbits, but you are hoovering the dust under the sea.
In John 1:18 are two Gods and Jesus is One of them. I know you don't like it but the Word is God not 'a god' as you believe.
It is the same in John 1:1c where 'theos' is God not 'a god', but the WTS translators have distorted it to strip the Deity of Jesus Christ!
In Amos 4:11 and Isaiah 48:12,16, for example, we have two Gods, but you refuse to acknowledge that. Whether it is the KJV or the NWT (or any other translation), there is a mount full of evidence which reveal Jesus and the Holy Spirit as God, but you reject those truths.
I don't accept the NWT as an honest and accurate translation, but rather a 'satanic book' which is made up by some JW non-scholars to support their own doctrine.
I don't think it is worth raesoning anymore with JWs from the Scriptures since you, JWs, are so blinded that you, JWs, just can't see.
Even God the Father can't convince you since you are so brainwashed and indoctrinated by the WTS falsehoods. But the day of Jesus second is approaching and can only pray that ypu would wake up before is too late!
Rudi,

Where are two gods mentioned here?

John 1:18
King James Version (KJV)
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

I haven't used the NWT in this discussion, but I have used the KJV renderings, and a few times compared those with other good translations by Trinitarian Protestant scholars. Your arguement is with God's Word, not with the NWT.

I believe that isn't a good position to take.

“email at ihveit@aol.com ”

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#2707 Dec 30, 2012
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
Rudi,
Here is a portion of your post where you allegedly quote the KJV;
(You posted>)The whole Bible testifies about the Deity of Jesus Christ which you willingly ignore and deny!
In Amos 4:11, KJV, I read, "I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the Lord." Two Gods? Who is the 'God' and the 'Lord' in Amos 4:11?
Here is how the KJV actually reads;
Amos 4:11 (KJV)
“ I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD.”
“LORD signifies Jehovah, not Jesus. Jehovah God overthrew those cities.
Here is another portion of your post:
“Also, in Isaiah 48: 12 and 16, KJV, I read, "12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me." Two 'Gods' and three separate Beings? Who is the 'I am he...the first...and the last' and who is the 'Lord God'?”
IHV and it was sooooooo easy to ignore the verses between these? is it because ti doent fit into your beliefs?

like this one:
Isa 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

WHOS HAND? yet your beleifs claime its JESUS who adtually laid the foundations... YOUR DOCTRINE HAS HOLES IN IT..

FOLKS this is calle hop scotch surgery of the bible
will
Both of these are Jehovah God, and Isaiah speaks last and says that God has sent him and that he has God’s spirit as direction.
Isa 48:16 (KJV) Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
The introduction to the reader, in My KJV says:
Whenever the words “GOD” and “LORD” occur in all capital letters, the name in the original Hebrew is Jehovah/YHWH.
Jehovah is speaking in verse 12, as evidenced by the times in the previous verses we see “LORD” in all capitals in verses 1 and 2, and this one makes reference to His name in verses 2 and 11.
The “first and the last” here speaking, identifies himself for us at Isa 44:6:
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
(The KJV kinda butchers this verse, but we get the idea by comparing better renderings.)
Isaiah 44:6 New English Translation (NET)
This is what the LORD, Israel’s king, says,
their protector, the LORD who commands armies:
“I am the first and I am the last,
there is no God but me.
We see nothing of Jesus being mentioned in any of these verses.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#2708 Dec 30, 2012
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
IHV and it was sooooooo easy to ignore the verses between these? is it because ti doent fit into your beliefs?
like this one:
Isa 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
WHOS HAND? yet your beleifs claime its JESUS who adtually laid the foundations... YOUR DOCTRINE HAS HOLES IN IT..
FOLKS this is calle hop scotch surgery of the bible
will
<quoted text>
Will,

I posted those verses from Rudi's comments, exactly as he posted them.

Do you just hit reply without ever reading and contemplating what was actually transpiring in our discussion?

Once again, open mouth and insert foot.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#2709 Dec 30, 2012
Lannymac wrote:
<quoted text>
Look miserable, don't project your cult master's way of doing things on to me, okay.
I know you're not wrapped tight, but there's a big difference between discerning the word of God and having a direct connection.
Besides, you don't feel indignation, qualms, or doubts when those clowns at the WTS make the claim that they have a direct connection to God.
You just except any and every thing they declare, as though it was... Thus say the Lord.
WHY...because you're a deluded cultist.
Btw...how do you know the ennuch went to worship, he could have went to do obeisance?
Oh I forgot..you got a "thus say the Lord" from your cult masters?
Lol...Priceless.
I don't think you really want an answer from me, since you already say you know what I will say and believe. Have a good evening. By the way, though even Thomas was surprised when he saw the resurrected Jesus! Maybe he didn't think he would be resurrected.:-) But God surprised him.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#2710 Dec 30, 2012
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
IHV and it was sooooooo easy to ignore the verses between these? is it because ti doent fit into your beliefs?
like this one:
Isa 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
WHOS HAND? yet your beleifs claime its JESUS who adtually laid the foundations... YOUR DOCTRINE HAS HOLES IN IT..
FOLKS this is calle hop scotch surgery of the bible
will
<quoted text>
No, the hand of God can be something or someone used directly BY God and FOR God. If someone says, I'll give you a hand, it does not have to mean that he is literally giving his own hand. He could be sending someone or something to help. It can also mean power, or pressure, as shown in the following scripture: "Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time." 1 Peter 5:8.

Since: Nov 11

Edwardsville, IL

#2711 Dec 30, 2012
Same Sophie wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't understand how HE can create Himself...
God did not 'create' himself literally... He created a Son who He lived through with His power and spirit.

Its really quite simple Sophie. First and foremost, he is the ALMIGHTY GOD who is capable of creating the heavens and earth, land and sea, parting those seas...wiping out nations resurrecting people, and on and on...

Secondly, God's Power is how Christ was conceived.. Luke 1 35 The angel answered, "the Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. Jesus was created with the Power of God. Christ is a man whose God's Almighty powers lived through.
Emmanual as foretold in Isaiah 9 states "He shall be called Emmanuel.. What does Emmanuel mean? God with us.
John 1:1 God was the word and the word became Flesh.

You cannot limit the power of what God can do. Christ was fully man and fully God in his spirit and works. God chose to live through Christ here on earth so as to give us the gift of Salvation through Faith, but it had to be faith and faith is believing without seeing. I believe that God's power and spirit lived through the man Christ thus making Christ God in the flesh. Yes it is possible that God can live in more than entity.

Where is your faith? Does it lie in Christ and His words, works and sacrifice or does it lie in an organization who spoon feeds you? I don't know what your beliefs are, but this is the best way I can explain it.
If you put your faith in Christ alone, you will not find it incredible to believe, but if you put your faith in the teachings of man and any organization, you will tend to believe only what they teach.
Lannymac

United States

#2712 Dec 30, 2012
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
Rudi,
Where are two gods mentioned here?
John 1:18
King James Version (KJV)
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
I haven't used the NWT in this discussion, but I have used the KJV renderings, and a few times compared those with other good translations by Trinitarian Protestant scholars. Your arguement is with God's Word, not with the NWT.
I believe that isn't a good position to take.
Amo 4:11 I have overthrown cities among you, as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a brand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith Jehovah.

Oh, stop your dancing and just tell us who is Jehovah's God?

Since: Dec 12

United States

#2713 Dec 30, 2012
I'm not jw but I struggled with trying to understand how the trinity is possible. How does the sun come up and set every day? I don't have a clue...and in spite of my lack of understanding ....the sun continues to do its thing. Some ppl have to see something before they believe it, or pproove it one way or another. I'm baffled when it comes to trying to understand creation - who cares if Jesus had a part in it. Creation in and of itself is mind boggling. One time a jw friend of mine said," did you know that Jesus wasnt actually crucified on a cross, he was just tied to a stake?" And I was like, " really? I don't care if they glued him to a splinter....who cares about the details. JESUS CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS everything else is commentary. All the commentary evolves around that. To help me better understand the Trinity I think of an egg....you can boil it and remove the shell and guess what? Its still an egg. You can separate the white from the rest and its stippled what? If you poach it ...still an egg.

“email at ihveit@aol.com ”

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#2714 Dec 30, 2012
little lamb wrote:
The Son of God isn't his own Father...foolishness in the extreme.." The WORD was a god " divine in nature like his Father ..the word 'theos as against ho-theos is a an adjective describing the Words divine nature and not that he was ho-theos "GOD"
ihv why dont you take some time off and learn what the trinity doctrine really is.. its clear you dont know.. and the society surely will not teach you the true meaning

if i am not mistaken if there is a "ho" here and an adjective, it can be translated as "a" but ALSO as "the"
will
will

“email at ihveit@aol.com ”

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#2715 Dec 30, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>No, the hand of God can be something or someone used directly BY God and FOR God. If someone says, I'll give you a hand, it does not have to mean that he is literally giving his own hand. He could be sending someone or something to help. It can also mean power, or pressure, as shown in the following scripture: "Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time." 1 Peter 5:8.
ihv read gen 1
then john 1
will

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#2716 Dec 30, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>No, the hand of God can be something or someone used directly BY God and FOR God. If someone says, I'll give you a hand, it does not have to mean that he is literally giving his own hand. He could be sending someone or something to help. It can also mean power, or pressure, as shown in the following scripture: "Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time." 1 Peter 5:8.
Here is a good example:

Isaiah 40:10 Look! The Sovereign Lord Jehovah himself will come even as a strong one, and his arm will be ruling for him. Look! His reward is with him, and the wage he pays is before him.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#2717 Dec 30, 2012
Lannymac wrote:
<quoted text>
Amo 4:11 I have overthrown cities among you, as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a brand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith Jehovah.
Oh, stop your dancing and just tell us who is Jehovah's God?
Jehovah doesn’t have a god, He is God.

But Jehovah God does have His Chief spokesman, His Word, Jesus.

Jesus was known as the Word of God, and many times is identified as the Angel of Jehovah.

Being Jehovah’s chief spokesman, The Word of God, he many times speaks for Jehovah in the first person, as if he is Jehovah.(See Genesis chapter 18)

When the Angel of Jehovah saw that Lot and his daughters were clear of the cities that were to be destroyed, he directed that the destruction from Jehovah could proceed;

“Then Jehovah made it rain sulphur and fire from Jehovah, from the heavens, upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah.” Gen 19:24

“email at ihveit@aol.com ”

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#2718 Dec 30, 2012
Richardnak wrote:
<quoted text>
Jehovah doesn’t have a god, He is God.
But Jehovah God does have His Chief spokesman, His Word, Jesus.
Jesus was known as the Word of God, and many times is identified as the Angel of Jehovah.
Being Jehovah’s chief spokesman, The Word of God, he many times speaks for Jehovah in the first person, as if he is Jehovah.(See Genesis chapter 18)
ihv let me see if i got this straight.. YOU GOT TWO GODS? nooo wait you say no.. yet you believe jehovah is the ONLY TRUE GOD.. yet you have another god called JESUS.. which is not god and not the only true god..AND HE ISNT THE TRUE GOT BUT HE ISNT A FALSE GOD EITHER.. hmmmmmm you got two gods LIKE IT OR NOT snf this fact cannot be denied ..
will
When the Angel of Jehovah saw that Lot and his daughters were clear of the cities that were to be destroyed, he directed that the destruction from Jehovah could proceed;
“Then Jehovah made it rain sulphur and fire from Jehovah, from the heavens, upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah.” Gen 19:24

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