First Prev
of 3
Next Last
UNchained

Louisville, TN

#1 Jan 20, 2013
Does a baptised Jehovah's Witness leave the denomination?
bystander no more

Elk Grove, CA

#2 Jan 20, 2013
Because they are not rightly disposed for everlasting life.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#3 Jan 20, 2013
bystander no more wrote:
Because they are not rightly disposed for everlasting life.
.
. No! the reason is..they finally realize that the words..you must listen to us as God's mouth piece.. Goes against..what God himself has told us..( do not put your faith in man's word )
And then reflected on what they observed in the past...that those words were often proved wrong when the WTS.. was doing as GOD had told those that teach not to..go beyond what is written..
little lamb

Maribyrnong, Australia

#4 Jan 20, 2013
People may leave denominations of any kind..to come to Christ .

Hebrews 13 [13] Let us then , go forth to him outside the camp bearing the reproach he bore, for we do not have here a city that continues but we are earnestly seeking the one to come."

Whats interesting about that scripture , is that at one stage we were in a city [organization] for us to come out of.
UNchained

Louisville, TN

#5 Jan 21, 2013
bystander no more wrote:
Because they are not rightly disposed for everlasting life.
Can a baptised Jehovah's Witness leave the JW denomination, never return to it, never read or believe its doctrines and still be saved?

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#6 Jan 21, 2013
Oyi! reflecting on the last post I made.. The Church ..took the name JW's and yet what does that make the followers of christ ..The bible called them Christians.. So they tossed out the middle man as not being important.. His job was to mediate for mankind between them and his father.. SO! does that mean ..they didn't figure they needed to have a mediator??

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#7 Jan 21, 2013
bystander no more wrote:
Because they are not rightly disposed for everlasting life.
Who says? When the bible says that WHOSOEVER Believes in JESUS WILL gain eternal life, exactly what do you think that means? Many leave the organization because they have found the TRUE Jesus Christ, not the one the organization has invented. UNLESS you truly believe in JESUS, and not a religion or organization as your savior, then the bible says, you will not gain eternal life. The words you spoke are not biblical, but the words of men who want you to believe them.

“NO, YOU MOVE.”

Since: Dec 06

Republic of Elbonia

#8 Jan 21, 2013
Maravilla wrote:
The Church ..took the name JW's...
Actually, "The Church," i.e., the JW sect, simply adopted a phrase that actually was used in scripture as a direct quote from god on high through the prophet Isaiah to his original "chosen" people, the jews of ancient Israel [1].

Troll:...and yet what does that make the followers of christ ..The bible called them Christians..

Reply: The bible uses the word, "Christiano," that's true, as it was used by the Romans to refer to followers of the christ; the early disciples did not refer to themselves as, "Christiano," but later adopted the term that had been applied to them in a derogatory way.[See, Acts 11:26, 26:28]

Your "jesus" never referred to his followers as, "Christians," and while he didn't quote specifically that passage from Isaiah, he was certainly fond of that particular prophet, quoting a number of passages from that particular prophet - Chapter 61, mostly; have you ever read Isaiah 61? Read what it says, particularly verses 8 & 9.

Troll: So they tossed out the middle man as not being important..

Reply: They didn't do anything of the sort; they adopted a term that was used in a derogatory way to refer to them who were suffering wide-spread persecution - but specifically persecution within the Roman Empire, at the hands of the people who had first assigned them the name, "Christiano" in derision. See 1 Peter 4.

References:
_____

[1] http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/... ; See also, Isaiah 41:8, 53:8,11

See also:
_____

http://www.biblegems.com/ISAIAH41V14.HTM

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#9 Jan 21, 2013
FH Chandler wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, "The Church," i.e., the JW sect, simply adopted a phrase that actually was used in scripture as a direct quote from god on high through the prophet Isaiah to his original "chosen" people, the jews of ancient Israel [1].
Troll:...and yet what does that make the followers of christ ..The bible called them Christians..
Reply: The bible uses the word, "Christiano," that's true, as it was used by the Romans to refer to followers of the christ; the early disciples did not refer to themselves as, "Christiano," but later adopted the term that had been applied to them in a derogatory way.[See, Acts 11:26, 26:28]
Your "jesus" never referred to his followers as, "Christians," and while he didn't quote specifically that passage from Isaiah, he was certainly fond of that particular prophet, quoting a number of passages from that particular prophet - Chapter 61, mostly; have you ever read Isaiah 61? Read what it says, particularly verses 8 & 9.
Troll: So they tossed out the middle man as not being important..
Reply: They didn't do anything of the sort; they adopted a term that was used in a derogatory way to refer to them who were suffering wide-spread persecution - but specifically persecution within the Roman Empire, at the hands of the people who had first assigned them the name, "Christiano" in derision. See 1 Peter 4.
References:
_____
[1] http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/... ; See also, Isaiah 41:8, 53:8,11
See also:
_____
http://www.biblegems.com/ISAIAH41V14.HTM
.
. When the scripture was written ..it was specifically written to those that( literally witnessed God's actions ).. And yes..they could tell other of it..THEY ..Witnessed it... What exactly have those that scarfed the words without.. seeing anything .. A witness to ..except that one of their founders went beyond Christ.. As if he was of no consequence..and on to the father.. Yet that very father..had long before..Glorified his son and raised him up as King.. AND.. mediator... Ever give thought as to who he mediated between???
matters not who coined the name Christians.. the fact is yes..Christ's followers were persecuted..in the manner he said they would be.. Today ..the so called perscution is more ..because the WTS..is chronically doing things that not only defy what the Government says.. But in doing so.. they also defy what GOD had told them to do.. To obey and give respect.. No wonder God tells us ..so many times not to put our faith in mens words..
UNchained

Louisville, TN

#10 Jan 21, 2013
Does a baptised Jehovah's Witness leave the denomination?
bystander no more wrote:
Because they are not rightly disposed for everlasting life.
We have heard from one fence sitter (bystander no more) who claims he is not a JW but believes their doctrines even though he is going to have to be killed by God just like people who have left the JW's because he isn't a baptised JW.

Are there any baptised JW's that can tell the board the reason that a baptised Jehovah's Witness leaves the denomination?
Lol

United States

#11 Jan 21, 2013
bystander no more wrote:
Because they are not rightly disposed for everlasting life.
What does "rightly disposed for everlasting life" mean?

Who is deserving of everlasting life at this point in time?

Do you believe YOU deserve it? Why? Please share your wisdom.

“NO, YOU MOVE.”

Since: Dec 06

Republic of Elbonia

#12 Jan 22, 2013
Maravilla wrote:
When the scripture was written ..it was specifically written to those that( literally witnessed God's actions )..
It was not; it was a general statement that applied not only to the faithful of the ancient jews, but the coming "spiritual" jews spoken of in the NT.

Maravilla: What exactly have those that scarfed the words without.. seeing anything ..

Reply: Post the events of the gospels and the alleged Acts of Apostles, no one witnessed anything on the order of a miracle. If that's what you imagine is required to be called a, "witness" in the manner of Isaiah, then no one from the first century onward qualifies. Of course, those terms aren't as limited as you make them with your nonsensical, antiJW philosophy.

Troll: A witness to ..except that one of their founders went beyond Christ.. As if he was of no consequence..and on to the father..

Reply: You mean the way you disregard the relative authority of humans in the top-down organizational structure described in scripture?

Troll: Yet that very father..had long before..Glorified his son and raised him up as King.. AND.. mediator... Ever give thought as to who he mediated between???

Reply: The status of biblechrist as mediator isn't in dispute, except to ones like you who imagine that the top-down organizational structure which gives human authority figures a relative degree of power in the church somehow usurps the position of christ.

Troll: matters not who coined the name Christians..

Reply: Yes it does matter, in so far as you insinuated that, "Christians" is the only "proper" term for the followers of christ, as opposed to, "Witnesses." I simply informed you that your alleged god ACTUALLY referred to the faithful of ancient israel [and, later, "spiritual" israel] as, "my witnesses." Neither your alleged god or christ ever said, "You are Christians." The Apostles never said, "You are Christians." The term, "Christian" [or, Christanos] was a derogatory slur first used by the Romans and adopted later by the early followers of biblejesus as a term of endearment because, as indicated in 1 Peter, to be called, "Christianos" by the Romans, even though they used it to deride, meant that one publicly identified with and lived according to the dictates of biblejesus.

Troll: the fact is yes..Christ's followers were persecuted..in the manner he said they would be..

Reply: Which is why they came to be called, "Christians," a derogatory term used by their persecutors, long after your biblegod referred to them and the faithful of old as, "my witnesses."

Troll: Today ..the so called perscution is more ..because...

Reply: A lot of little morally bankrupt, butthurt people like you lob your bigotry at them. Sort of like the Romans.

Troll: the WTS..is chronically doing things that not only defy what the Government says..

Reply: The Romans used that excuse too. And it was a legitimate complaint with them.

Troll: But in doing so.. they also defy what GOD had told them to do.. To obey and give respect..

Reply: For instance?

Troll: No wonder God tells us ..so many times not to put our faith in mens words..

Reply: And yet your whole presentation of what you imagine the term, "Christian" to mean is the ideas of men as opposed to reality.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#13 Jan 22, 2013
FH Chandler wrote:
<quoted text>
It was not; it was a general statement that applied not only to the faithful of the ancient jews, but the coming "spiritual" jews spoken of in the NT.
Maravilla: What exactly have those that scarfed the words without.. seeing anything ..
Reply: Post the events of the gospels and the alleged Acts of Apostles, no one witnessed anything on the order of a miracle. If that's what you imagine is required to be called a, "witness" in the manner of Isaiah, then no one from the first century onward qualifies. Of course, those terms aren't as limited as you make them with your nonsensical, antiJW philosophy.
Troll: A witness to ..except that one of their founders went beyond Christ.. As if he was of no consequence..and on to the father..
Reply: You mean the way you disregard the relative authority of humans in the top-down organizational structure described in scripture?
Troll: Yet that very father..had long before..Glorified his son and raised him up as King.. AND.. mediator... Ever give thought as to who he mediated between???
Reply: The status of biblechrist as mediator isn't in dispute, except to ones like you who imagine that the top-down organizational structure which gives human authority figures a relative degree of power in the church somehow usurps the position of christ.
Troll: matters not who coined the name Christians..
Reply: Yes it does matter, in so far as you insinuated that, "Christians" is the only "proper" term for the followers of christ, as opposed to, "Witnesses." I simply informed you that your alleged god ACTUALLY referred to the faithful of ancient israel [and, later, "spiritual" israel] as, "my witnesses." Neither your alleged god or christ ever said, "You are Christians." The Apostles never said, "You are Christians." The term, "Christian" [or, Christanos] was a derogatory slur first used by the Romans and adopted later by the early followers of biblejesus as a term of endearment because, as indicated in 1 Peter, to be called, "Christianos" by the Romans, even though they used it to deride, meant that one publicly identified with and lived according to the dictates of biblejesus.
Troll: the fact is yes..Christ's followers were persecuted..in the manner he said they would be..
Reply: Which is why they came to be called, "Christians," a derogatory term used by their persecutors, long after your biblegod referred to them and the faithful of old as, "my witnesses."
Troll: Today ..the so called perscution is more ..because...
Reply: A lot of little morally bankrupt, butthurt people like you lob your bigotry at them. Sort of like the Romans.
Troll: the WTS..is chronically doing things that not only defy what the Government says..
Reply: The Romans used that excuse too. And it was a legitimate complaint with them.
Troll: But in doing so.. they also defy what GOD had told them to do.. To obey and give respect..
Reply: For instance?
Troll: No wonder God tells us ..so many times not to put our faith in mens words..
Reply: And yet your whole presentation of what you imagine the term, "Christian" to mean is the ideas of men as opposed to reality.
.
. You are rather a wordy person..
The Apostles most certainly did Witnesses the things that Jesus did.. Thus .that makes them.. witnesses.. WE on the other hand have witnessed nothing...
Bypassing the Son that GOD himself Glorified and placed in his own position.. IS an insult to GOD himself.. He chose to do so.. And you have chosen to ignore it.. Top management!.. Was fully aware of what he wanted for his son.. If the bible ..fully equips us.. Well then FH.. there is no need to dig up another rendition written by man as to where the word Christian came from.. As it appears that the.. name was not condemned by GOD.
Jesus unlike the GB.. did not self appoint himself to the position.. from a slave of GOD to a Owner.. Big difference.

“NO, YOU MOVE.”

Since: Dec 06

Republic of Elbonia

#14 Jan 22, 2013
Maravilla wrote:
You are rather a wordy person..
Certain things can't be easily explained in a single-serving sound-bite.

Maravilla: The Apostles most certainly did Witnesses the things that Jesus did..

Reply: Allegedly. As it is, whether or not the Apostles actually "Witnessed" the things jesus did is not at issue; the passage in Isaiah did not refer to JUST the ancient jews, specifically the faithful among them, or JUST the Apostles [Judas, too?], the faithful disciples, but to any and all of the faithful, first of fleshly israel and later "spiritual" israel and "faithful" humans beyond.

Maravilla: Thus .that makes them.. witnesses.. WE on the other hand have witnessed nothing...

Reply: If you limit the term, "Witnesses" to mean only those people who actually saw some tangible expression of god, you'd be correct. As it is, the term as used doesn't mean that.

Maravilla: Bypassing the Son that GOD himself Glorified and placed in his own position..

Reply: Who is bypassing the son?

Maravilla: IS an insult to GOD himself.. He chose to do so.. And you have chosen to ignore it..

Reply: This isn't about me, specifically, as an individual. Again, who do you imagine is bypassing the son? Also, just because you imagine it to be so doesn't mean that it is so.

Maravilla: Top management!.. Was fully aware of what he wanted for his son.. If the bible ..fully equips us.. Well then FH.. there is no need to dig up another rendition written by man...

Reply: All bibles are written by man, my dear.

Maravilla:...as to where the word Christian came from..

Reply: The term of derision used for followers of christ first by the Romans may have been included in the bible under inspiration; nevertheless, inspired scripture never offers the term as on prescribed by biblegod or biblejesus. "Witnesses," on the other hand, was actually used by GOD his/her/it/their self through the prophet Isaiah.

So, to return to the ostensible point of your statements, your derision of Jehovah's Witnesses because they choose to be called by a term actually used by GOD through the prophet to describe his people rather than the derisive term invented by the Romans is kind of shallow, as is your silly explanation of why you imagine the term, "Witnesses" isn't appropriate.

Troll: As it appears that the.. name was not condemned by GOD.

Reply: Nor did I ever state that it was.

Troll: Jesus unlike the GB.. did not self appoint himself to the position..

Reply: As I have never met your jesus, I have no idea what the real person jesus did or did not do. To the modern world, "jesus" is a fable and could as easily be the figment of the Apostles' collective imagination, or the imagination of some certain individual who may have been peripherally involved with the real people behind the fables.

As to the JWGB, my comments to you regarding your wholesale misunderstanding of the term, "Christiano" were not offered in defense of their belief that they are the modern-day, "older men" taking the lead amongst the earthly congregations. They may or may not be. You speak of INSPIRED scripture; INSPIRED scripture places some group of, "older men" in a relative authority position somewhere under christ in a top-down authority structure, i.e., an ORGANIZATION, even if INSPIRED scripture doesn't actually use the word ORGANIZATION, it doesn't matter because that is what is described - just like the ancient jewish tribes under the judges, later the kings and later the christian congregations were top-down authority structures OR, in simpler terms, ORGANIZATIONS.

Since: Feb 07

RI

#15 Jan 22, 2013
UNchained wrote:
Does a baptised Jehovah's Witness leave the denomination?
Either they realize that they have been well and truly duped by these charlatans, or they discover that the JW organization no longer meets their spiritual needs.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#16 Jan 22, 2013
FH.
. FH.. it is not imparative to know everything.. Who witnessed what.. only that it was litterally witnessed ..by some one..
These older men.. were the apostles.. and even in their case.. THEY ..did not self appoint themselves.
Further more.. the Jesus in the bible.. remains the same ..no matter who it is that is refering to him.. There is no false Jesus.. and I don't look him as a fable..
You have a lot of Info.. Some adds to a thought but you present it in an obnoxious manner.. And it is a turn off.. Got that???

“NO, YOU MOVE.”

Since: Dec 06

Republic of Elbonia

#17 Jan 23, 2013
Maravilla wrote:
You have a lot of Info.. Some adds to a thought but you present it in an obnoxious manner..
The content of the material is what is important, specifically its factual nature; that you're more concerned that it's presented in a way that you don't like is your own intellectual failing.

Maravilla: And it is a turn off.. Got that???

Reply: I might care if I was interested in turning you on. As it is, my responses dealt with the manner of the application of the term, "Christiano" in scripture, and your maleducation on the matter. If you wish to be informed, then pay attention. I'd prefer to stick to the subject, where as you seem to want to go off on two primary tangents: one, biddying over the JWGB being, "self-appointed" as you imagine it and the abrasive way I deal with idiots. One is a non-issue where it concerns the application of the term, "Christiano" in scripture, and the other... well, if you don't want me to treat you like an idiot, then don't act like one.
bystander no more

Elk Grove, CA

#18 Jan 23, 2013
Lol wrote:
<quoted text>
What does "rightly disposed for everlasting life" mean?
Who is deserving of everlasting life at this point in time?
Do you believe YOU deserve it? Why? Please share your wisdom.
"Rightly disposed" means willing to love Jehovah if given the chance to do so.

No one is deserving of everlasting life. We are all sinners and deserve to die.

But Jehovah will forgive the sins of those who are willing to love Him and will give them the desires of their heart.(Psalm 145:16, 1 Cor 2:9)
little lamb

Mentone, Australia

#19 Jan 23, 2013
Scripture tells us Jesus is the cornerstone, and the Apostles are the foundation stones of his congregation.

1 Peter 4 [16] but if he suffers as a Christian , let him not feel shame , but let him keep on glorifying God in this name."

In the new covenant, we are told to keep glorifying God in the name " Christian"

Because we are also told , " It was first in Antioch that the disciples were by DIVINE PROVIDENCE called Christians"

DIVINE ..is from God, for no man produced this name from their own initiative.

Also Jesus tells his disciples " but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit arrives upon you , and you will be witnesses OF ME {JESUS] both in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the most distant parts of the earth"

The Holy Spirit is power for witnessing to JESUS.

Isaiah 43 says that it is Israel and Jacob, who are his witnesses..and we can only be part of Israel through being grafted into the nation through FAITH in Jesus.

A organization that claims to be a legitimate whilst denying the members to be grafted into the ISRAEL of GOD through false teachings..is an idol, not a NATION.

And being Jehovah's witnesses means we are to be about preaching the good new of HIS CHRIST.

His name Jehovah gives us legitimacy to be his witnesses of HIS Christ.

But because of not being grafted into the Israel of God..false witnesses bear witness to an ORGANIZATION..which is a false Christ..an anti-Christ in fact.

The Holy Spirit is given to be witnesses of Jesus.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#20 Jan 23, 2013
FH Chandler wrote:
<quoted text>
The content of the material is what is important, specifically its factual nature; that you're more concerned that it's presented in a way that you don't like is your own intellectual failing.
Maravilla: And it is a turn off.. Got that???
Reply: I might care if I was interested in turning you on. As it is, my responses dealt with the manner of the application of the term, "Christiano" in scripture, and your maleducation on the matter. If you wish to be informed, then pay attention. I'd prefer to stick to the subject, where as you seem to want to go off on two primary tangents: one, biddying over the JWGB being, "self-appointed" as you imagine it and the abrasive way I deal with idiots. One is a non-issue where it concerns the application of the term, "Christiano" in scripture, and the other... well, if you don't want me to treat you like an idiot, then don't act like one.
.
. I read no disparaging scriptures in the bible on the word christian. No doubt there were many disparaging remarks about a whole lot of things that took place during that time.. But that doesn't change what is in the bible.??

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 3
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Jehovah's Witness Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Gog and Magog After The Thousand Years 22 min Tony Price 77 1
Trump apologizes then reverts back to course. 28 min ihveit 86
Let's try this again, 144,000 ONLY? No jw has b... 43 min ihveit 951
Why the NWT is the best ever! 48 min ihveit 760
Who Created JW's? 53 min ihveit 105
In Tartarus While Dwelling in Heaven? 1 hr Tony Price 77 1
Are Jehovahs allowed to.........fart in public? (Jun '08) 2 hr Nomi 73
Trinity...why does it matter?! 5 hr ihveit 969
More from around the web