john 14:14 — did jesus say “ask me an...

john 14:14 — did jesus say “ask me anything” or did he say “ask anything”?

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Blaise

East Orange, NJ

#1 Feb 4, 2011
JOHN 14:14 — DID JESUS SAY “ASK ME ANYTHING” OR DID HE SAY “ASK ANYTHING”?—Does John 14:14 indicate that Christians should pray directly to Jesus?

NEW AMERICAN STANDARD:
JOHN 14:14:“If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.”

KINGDOM INTERLINEAR TRANSLATION
JOHN 14:14::“If ever anything you should ask me in the name of me this I shall do.”


NEW WORLD TRANSLATION
JOHN 14:14:“If You ask anything in my name, I will do it.”

Christians and Jehovah’s Witnesses agree that if Jesus is not God, He should not be prayed to because prayer is a form of worship. However, when we see that Scripture supports the idea that Jesus is worthy of prayer and worship, we must conclude that Jesus is indeed God by nature. Thus, the idea that Jesus receives prayer in Scripture is strongly contended against by Jehovah’s Witnesses who maintain that no such practice exists in Scripture.

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#2 Feb 5, 2011
The word for "me" does not appear in the oldest Greek texts in John 14:14.

Furthermore when the word "me" is included then the verse contradicts other verses when Jesus says to ask the father and not to ask him:

*** John 16:23 "In that day you will ask me no questions. Truly I tell you, whatever you may ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.

So it is pretty clear that the word "me" at John 14:14 in some Bible translations comes from a later ADDITION to the original Greek text of the Bible.

The New World Translation renders this verse accurately.

Since: Aug 10

Swindon, UK

#3 Feb 5, 2011
Gareth wrote:
Greek scholars agree that the Greek texts prepared by Westcott & Hort are more accurate than those previously available.

They make use of the very OLDEST manuscripts discovered and so are closer to the original documents.
Gareth wrote:
The word for "me" does not appear in the oldest Greek texts in John 14:14.
Hang on.

The New World Translation is a translation of the Westcott & Hort text and the Westcott & Hort text has “If you ask me anything in my name”[Word for word:“If ever anything you should ask me in the name of me”] according to my 1969 Kingdom Interlinear.

So how come you say “the Greek texts prepared by Westcott & Hort are more accurate than those previously available” and yet claim Westcott & Hort used a word not in the very oldest manuscripts?
Gareth wrote:

The New World Translation renders this verse accurately.
Not according to your very own Westcott & Hort Greek text you don’t
Gareth wrote:

Furthermore when the word "me" is included then the verse contradicts other verses when Jesus says to ask the father
I can’t see that contradiction.

“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me.”(John 14:10)

To ask Jesus something is to ask the Father dwelling in him.

Jesus says:“No one comes to the Father except through Me”(John 14:6) therefore we have to go to the Father dwelling in Jesus through Jesus.
Gareth wrote:

Jesus says to ask the father
“For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given … and His name will be called Mighty God, Everlasting Father”(Isaiah 9:6)

The apostles were asking Jesus things all the time when he was on earth, why should we not ask him things in heaven as our Mighty God and Everlasting Father?
Victory

Wenatchee, WA

#4 Feb 5, 2011
King James Version
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do [it].

American Standard Version
If ye shall ask anything in my name, that will I do.

Darby Bible Translation
If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it.

Webster's Bible Translation
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

World English Bible
If you will ask anything in my name, I will do it.

Young's Literal Translation
if ye ask anything in my name I will do it.

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#5 Feb 5, 2011
Mary MacLellan wrote:
Hang on.
The New World Translation is a translation of the Westcott & Hort text and the Westcott & Hort text has “If you ask me anything in my name”[Word for word:“If ever anything you should ask me in the name of me”] according to my 1969 Kingdom Interlinear.
The New World Translation take into consideration MANY texts, not just Westcott & Hort.

The oldest Greel texts do not comtain the word "me".
Mary MacLellan wrote:
So how come you say “the Greek texts prepared by Westcott & Hort are more accurate than those previously available” and yet claim Westcott & Hort used a word not in the very oldest manuscripts?[/QUOTE

Westcott & Hort text IS more accurate than those previously available. You would have to ask Westcott or Hort why they chose not to use the oldest text for that verse. Perhaps it had not been discovered then? I don't know.

It doesn't change the facts though.

Remember, that rendering contradicts what Jesus plainly stated:

*** John 16:23 "In that day you will ask me no questions. Truly I tell you, whatever you may ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.

[QUOTE who="Mary MacLellan"]
Not according to your very own Westcott & Hort Greek text you don’t
But Westcott & Hort Greek text isn't perfect.
Mary MacLellan wrote:
I can’t see that contradiction.
That's called spiritual blindness. Your desire for Jehovah's Witnesses to be wrong causes you to ignore what Jesus said in favour of what someone has added to the Bible.
Mary MacLellan wrote:
“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me.”(John 14:10)
To ask Jesus something is to ask the Father dwelling in him.
Jesus says:“No one comes to the Father except through Me”(John 14:6) therefore we have to go to the Father dwelling in Jesus through Jesus.
That's just gobbledegook you tell yourself to justify ignoring what Jesus plainly stated:

*** John 16:23 "In that day you will ask me no questions. Truly I tell you, whatever you may ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.
Mary MacLellan wrote:
“For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given … and His name will be called Mighty God, Everlasting Father”(Isaiah 9:6)
The apostles were asking Jesus things all the time when he was on earth, why should we not ask him things in heaven as our Mighty God and Everlasting Father?
Because Jesus said so:

*** John 16:23 "In that day you will ask me no questions.

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#6 Feb 5, 2011
FIXED:
Mary MacLellan wrote:
Hang on.
The New World Translation is a translation of the Westcott & Hort text and the Westcott & Hort text has “If you ask me anything in my name”[Word for word:“If ever anything you should ask me in the name of me”] according to my 1969 Kingdom Interlinear.
The New World Translation take into consideration MANY texts, not just Westcott & Hort.

The oldest Greel texts do not comtain the word "me".
Mary MacLellan wrote:
So how come you say “the Greek texts prepared by Westcott & Hort are more accurate than those previously available” and yet claim Westcott & Hort used a word not in the very oldest manuscripts?
Westcott & Hort text IS more accurate than those previously available. You would have to ask Westcott or Hort why they chose not to use the oldest text for that verse. Perhaps it had not been discovered then? I don't know.

It doesn't change the facts though.

Remember, that rendering contradicts what Jesus plainly stated:

*** John 16:23 "In that day you will ask me no questions. Truly I tell you, whatever you may ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.
Mary MacLellan wrote:
Not according to your very own Westcott & Hort Greek text you don’t
But Westcott & Hort Greek text isn't perfect.
Mary MacLellan wrote:
I can’t see that contradiction.
That's called spiritual blindness. Your desire for Jehovah's Witnesses to be wrong causes you to ignore what Jesus said in favour of what someone has added to the Bible.
Mary MacLellan wrote:
“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me.”(John 14:10)
To ask Jesus something is to ask the Father dwelling in him.
Jesus says:“No one comes to the Father except through Me”(John 14:6) therefore we have to go to the Father dwelling in Jesus through Jesus.
That's just gobbledegook you tell yourself to justify ignoring what Jesus plainly stated:

*** John 16:23 "In that day you will ask me no questions. Truly I tell you, whatever you may ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.
Mary MacLellan wrote:
“For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given … and His name will be called Mighty God, Everlasting Father”(Isaiah 9:6)
The apostles were asking Jesus things all the time when he was on earth, why should we not ask him things in heaven as our Mighty God and Everlasting Father?
Because Jesus said so:

*** John 16:23 "In that day you will ask me no questions.
Victory

Wenatchee, WA

#7 Feb 5, 2011
On page 5 if the 1985 edition of The Kingdom Interlinear Translation, paragraph four states in part:

“The interlinear word for word rendering has not been made by taking the English word or phrase from the modern translation in the right-hand column and transferring it to a position under the Greek word to which in corresponds. Rather, the translation under each Greek word sets out what the Greek word itself says according to its root meanings (where the Greek word is made up of two or more particles) and according to its grammatical form. So in many cases the reading the English word-for-word interlinear translation is not the same as that found in the right-hand column.

The NWT Greek text is not based solely on the “widely accepted Westcott and text” of 1881. On pages 8 and 9 under Greek Text of the FOREWARD section of The KIT indicates:

"But we have also taken into consideration other texts, including those prepared by D. Eberhard Nestle, the Spanish Jesuit scholar José María Bover, and another Jesuit scholar, A. Merk. The UBS text of 1975 and the Nestle-Aland text of 1979 were consulted to update the critical apparatus of this edition."
fada of fadas

United States

#8 Feb 5, 2011
Gareth wrote:
FIXED:
<quoted text>
The New World Translation take into consideration MANY texts, not just Westcott & Hort.
The oldest Greel texts do not comtain the word "me".
<quoted text>
Westcott & Hort text IS more accurate than those previously available. You would have to ask Westcott or Hort why they chose not to use the oldest text for that verse. Perhaps it had not been discovered then? I don't know.
It doesn't change the facts though.
Remember, that rendering contradicts what Jesus plainly stated:
*** John 16:23 "In that day you will ask me no questions. Truly I tell you, whatever you may ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.
<quoted text>
But Westcott & Hort Greek text isn't perfect.
<quoted text>
That's called spiritual blindness. Your desire for Jehovah's Witnesses to be wrong causes you to ignore what Jesus said in favour of what someone has added to the Bible.
<quoted text>
That's just gobbledegook you tell yourself to justify ignoring what Jesus plainly stated:
*** John 16:23 "In that day you will ask me no questions. Truly I tell you, whatever you may ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.
<quoted text>
Because Jesus said so:
*** John 16:23 "In that day you will ask me no questions.
Your busted again little gareth talking out both sides of your mouth again. Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha!!!!
Victory

Wenatchee, WA

#9 Feb 5, 2011
Mary MacLellan wrote:

<Hang on.

The New World Translation is a translation of the Westcott & Hort text and the Westcott & Hort text.>

No. Incorrect. The NWT is not a translation of the Westcott & Hort text. The NWT is a translation of varius Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts. The primary text of the Greek Scriptures is that of Westcott and Hort´s.

MacLellan wrote:
<I can’t see that contradiction.>

You need to SEE the whole picture. John 15:16 states in part:¨and to ASK THE FATHER in my name to give you whatever you ask for.¨

The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me.”(John 14:10)

You are right on quoting Jesus ¨I do not speak on My own authority¨
Victory

Wenatchee, WA

#10 Feb 5, 2011
The Sahidic Coptic of John 14:14 reads:“etetnSanaiti nouHwb Hm paran. pai TnaaaF.”

George Horner, Coptic scholar renders this verse as: "If ye should ask a thing in my name, this I shall do." Here the Coptic text does not have "ME” after “ask.”

It should be remembered that Koine Greek was still a living language in Egypt when the Coptic version was made, and that Egyptians (proselytes or Egytian Jews) were present at Pentecost CE, and likely took Christianity to Egypt from earliest times.(Acts 2:10, 11) The eloquent Apollos was from Alexandria, Egypt, and may also have returned to his native land to preach.(Acts 18:24-28;Titus 3:13)

Since: Dec 06

Delmar, NY

#11 Feb 5, 2011
Gareth wrote:
The word for "me" does not appear in the oldest Greek texts in John 14:14.

The New World Translation renders this verse accurately.
Actually the oldest manuscript that we have of John 14:14 are "Papyrus 66" which was written 125 A.D. and "Papyrus 75" written between 175-225 A.D. and both of these papyrus' have Jesus saying "ask me".

The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures renders this verse accurately

So the question is there other scripture that would suggest that we can pray to Jesus? How about Acts 7:59-60 which says:
"They were stoning Stephen as he called out:'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!' Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice,'Lord, do not charge tthem with this sin!' And saying this, he fell asleep."
There's twice Stephen prayed to Jesus...we also may pray to Jesus.

Jesus allowing us to ask him anything does not contradict our right to go to the Father in the name of his Son.

Since: Feb 11

Wenatchee, WA

#12 Feb 5, 2011
To all: I am now Victory de Sharp. Formerly "Victory".

Since: Aug 10

Swindon, UK

#13 Feb 5, 2011
Mary MacLellan wrote:
“For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given … and His name will be called Mighty God, Everlasting Father”(Isaiah 9:6)

The apostles were asking Jesus things all the time when he was on earth, why should we not ask him things in heaven as our Mighty God and Everlasting Father?
Gareth wrote:
Because Jesus said so:

*** John 16:23 "In that day you will ask me no questions.
And what day is “that day” Gareth?

“A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.”(John 14:19,20)

“Therefore you now have sorrow; but I will see you again and your heart will rejoice, and your joy no one will take from you and you will not question Me about anything in that day.”(John 16:22,23)

Is it not possible that “that day” when the disciples will not need to question Jesus about anything could be when the disciples get to be with Jesus in heaven?

Until that day, what prevents Christians calling on the name of Jesus, our Mighty God and Everlasting Father?

“To those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ”(1 Corinthians 1:2)

“The Truth Shall Make You Free”

Since: Jan 10

Boston, MA

#14 Feb 5, 2011
stark wrote:
Actually the oldest manuscript that we have of John 14:14 are "Papyrus 66" which was written 125 A.D. and "Papyrus 75" written between 175-225 A.D. and both of these papyrus' have Jesus saying "ask me".
Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus, venerated by Wescott and Hort, both agree with the early papyrus readings of “ask me” in John 14:14.

“The Truth Shall Make You Free”

Since: Jan 10

Boston, MA

#15 Feb 5, 2011
Victory wrote:
On pages 8 and 9 under Greek Text of the FOREWARD section of The KIT indicates:
"But we have also taken into consideration other texts, including those prepared by D. Eberhard Nestle, the Spanish Jesuit scholar José María Bover, and another Jesuit scholar, A. Merk. The UBS text of 1975 and the Nestle-Aland text of 1979 were consulted to update the critical apparatus of this edition."
The Foreword also says:

“Where we have varied from the reading of the Westcott and Hort text, our footnotes show the basis for our preferred reading. We give some definiteness to the background for the renderings of our text by showing in our footnotes the most ancient manuscripts and versions on which we call for support.”

But no footnote in the Kingdom Interlinear gives any indication why the New World Translation deviated from the Wescott and Hort text and left out the word "me" at John 14:14

Whatever answer the Watchtower Society might give on why it decided not to translate the word "me" from the Westcott and Hort text into the New World Translation it is clear they did not fulfill the statement made on page 9 of the Kingdom Interlinear providing some footnote to explain the departure from the Westcott and Hort Greek text, along with manuscript support.

Is this honest scholarship?

Since: Dec 06

Delmar, NY

#16 Feb 5, 2011
Peter Lasren wrote:
<quoted text>
Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus, venerated by Wescott and Hort, both agree with the early papyrus readings of “ask me” in John 14:14.
So are you agreeing that we may pray to Jesus?
Or are you saying something else and I'm not getting it?

“The Truth Shall Make You Free”

Since: Jan 10

Boston, MA

#17 Feb 5, 2011
stark wrote:
So are you agreeing that we may pray to Jesus?
Or are you saying something else and I'm not getting it?
I am primarily saying that the Watchtower Society are dishonest in translating John 14:14 the way they do when they make the following staement:

“The Greek master text that has reached the highest universal acceptance is that produced by the Cambridge University scholars, Bishop B.F. Westcott and Professor F.J.A. Hort, in 1881.… This is the master text that underlies the 1950 and 1961 editions of the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, thus ensuring the greatest possible accuracy.”--“All Scripture is Inspired of God and Beneficial” published by the Watchtower Society in 1963, page 317

Knowing full well that Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus and the earlier Bodmer papyri support the Westcott & Hort reading of “If you ask me anything in my name”, the Watchtower Society deliberately and wilfully remove the word “me” based purely on their subjective theology and not on objective scholarly grounds.

It is not for me to tell another Christian whether he may, or may not, pray to Jesus.

John 14:26
But when the Father sends the Counselor as my representative - that is, the Holy Spirit - He will teach you everything

1 John 2:27
But you have received the Holy Spirit, and He lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know
Blaise

East Orange, NJ

#18 Feb 5, 2011
Gareth wrote:
The word for "me" does not appear in the oldest Greek texts in John 14:14.
Furthermore when the word "me" is included then the verse contradicts other verses when Jesus says to ask the father and not to ask him:
*** John 16:23 "In that day you will ask me no questions. Truly I tell you, whatever you may ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.
So it is pretty clear that the word "me" at John 14:14 in some Bible translations comes from a later ADDITION to the original Greek text of the Bible.
The New World Translation renders this verse accurately.
Furthermore when the word "me" is included then the verse contradicts other verses when Jesus says to ask the father and not to ask him:
*** John 16:23 "In that day you will ask me no questions. Truly I tell you, whatever you may ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.

If the"Me" in verse 14 contradicts other verses then the phrase "I will give it to you" should contradict the bible since in verse 14 the giving is done by Jesus and in verse 16 the giving is done by the Father.
Blaise

East Orange, NJ

#19 Feb 5, 2011
Gareth wrote:
The word for "me" does not appear in the oldest Greek texts in John 14:14.
Furthermore when the word "me" is included then the verse contradicts other verses when Jesus says to ask the father and not to ask him:
*** John 16:23 "In that day you will ask me no questions. Truly I tell you, whatever you may ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.
So it is pretty clear that the word "me" at John 14:14 in some Bible translations comes from a later ADDITION to the original Greek text of the Bible.
The New World Translation renders this verse accurately.
Christians appeal to the fact that not only does Jesus encourage believers to pray to Him by saying,“ask Me anything,” but He is the One who answers the prayer when He promises,“I will do it.”
Even without the Word"ME" John 14:14 is one of the strongest evidences that prayer should be addressed to Jesus because Jesus promises in that same verse that he is the one who will answer our request. Gareth and the rest of his associates would have a case if Jesus had ended this verse by saying "I will be asked or I will be authorized to give it to .But the fact that John 14:14"I will do it." stands in direct contradiction with John 16:23 "he will give it" and since we know there is no contradiction in bible ,the only possible conclusion we can draw is that Jesus is God.
Blaise

East Orange, NJ

#20 Feb 5, 2011
Victory wrote:
Mary MacLellan wrote:
<Hang on.
The New World Translation is a translation of the Westcott & Hort text and the Westcott & Hort text.>
No. Incorrect. The NWT is not a translation of the Westcott & Hort text. The NWT is a translation of varius Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts. The primary text of the Greek Scriptures is that of Westcott and Hort´s.
MacLellan wrote:
<I can’t see that contradiction.>
You need to SEE the whole picture. John 15:16 states in part:¨and to ASK THE FATHER in my name to give you whatever you ask for.¨
The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me.”(John 14:10)
You are right on quoting Jesus ¨I do not speak on My own authority¨
You are absolutely right the NWT is a mess,,, The reason that certain Bible versions, other than the New World Translation, leave out the “me” is due to a textual variant in the manuscripts of the Greek text of this verse.

The Majority text (most dating from around the 9th century) split on this issue with some containing the “me” and others dropping the “me.” But in recent years, scholars have uncovered manuscripts of the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament) that date as far back as the second and third centuries. The oldest manuscripts we have available today of this verse in the Gospel of John are Papyrus 66, written in 125 A.D., and Papyrus 75, written sometime between 175-225 A.D. Both of these papyrus fragments contain the “me” in this passage. Not only do the oldest fragments of John that we possess today contain the “me,” but two of the oldest ancient complete copies of the entire Bible in Greek, the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus (also called the Wescott and Hort manuscripts) written around the 4th century, both agree with the papyrus’ renderings of “ask me” in John 14:14.

Since Desiderius Erasmus complied and published the Greek text (Textus Receptus) of the King James Bible version in the 1500’s, he did not have access to the older Greek manuscripts that we have today. Thus, the King James Bible version and other Bible versions based upon the Textus Receptus or the Majority text (including the Watchtower Society’s Emphatic Diaglott Greet text published by Benjamin Wilson in 1942), do not contain the “me” in John 14:14. While these Bibles leave out the “me” based upon the text of the Greek manuscripts they follow, this is not the case for the Watchtower Society’s New World Translation. It claims to be based upon the Greek text of the “Wescott and Hort”(the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus)** both of which support the rendering of “me” in “ask me anything.” Therefore, when the translators of the New World Translation chose to omit the “me,” they do so with clear bias against the manuscript support for prayers to Jesus. Indeed, John 14:14 is a strong testimony to Jesus’ approval of the early Christian practice of directing their prayers to Jesus Christ as God.

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