What is the trinity?

Since: May 09

Woodstock, IL

#8392 Nov 11, 2013
Hello Dave,
Dave47 wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree that John 10:33 and John 1:1(c) are similar in that (theos) is not preceded by the definite article (ho). Theos should not be capitalized in either John 1:1(c) or John 10:33 as both are qualitative nouns which often can be expressed by using the indefinite "a" before "theos" as these examples show. In Acts 12:22(NASB) Herod is called "theos" witho ut any article and it was rendered with a little "g" and uses "a" where the scripture says: "The voice of a god and not of a man!” and in Acts 28:6(NASB) where Paul had been bitten by a viper and was expected to die. The scripture says “they changed their minds and began to say that he was a god." As one can see from these two examples then John 1:1 and John 10:33 must have been translated using other considerations ie:- Theological bias, as it is very clear, it is Grammatically possible to use "a" before god or render it as a small "g".
Wow looking through the NWT 2013, they sure bastardized a lot in John 10...

So let's do this. Let's just take John 1"1 and see how John defines "THEOS" and let's see if we can reason whether THEOS should be "a god" or God.

Here is John's opening salvo:

John 1:1 NASB
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god (or God).
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Verse 2 clarifies verse 1 parts a and b.

- In the beginning was the Word;
- The Word was with God;
- He was in the beginning with God;

This clearly defines the Word's eternal nature. Whatever the beginning is the Word already existed and in that same beginning the Word already existed because he was WITH God.

These statements all taken together clearly eliminate any and all other possible understandings that Christ had a beginning. Verse 2 makes it absolutely clear that one cannot say Christ was the beginning of creation, because He already was with God.

Verse 3 solidifies what was created and who did the creating. Johns states in in two ways. All was created through Him and nothing was created apart from him. The double stating completely removes any implied "other" or "other than" possible understanding from John's statement in verse 3.

So we have The Word was THEOS that is eternal and the source of all creation.

When the term "a god" is used it implies one of many or one within a set of many.

How many gods are both eternal and the source of all creation? One?

If there is only "one" that fits, that kind of rules out "a god" does it not?

Peace,
Bob

Since: May 09

Woodstock, IL

#8393 Nov 11, 2013
Matt13weedhacker wrote:
<quoted text>
The Father =
Ephesians 1:17
"...the God ( of ) our Lord..."
Jesus =
1:18
"...the only-generated god..."
Are Jesus and the Father the still --- same --- "...God..." to you Bob?
How does this answer anything regarding John 1:1 or John 10:33?

Please give me the courtesy of answering. I've been more than fair to address all your primary verses.(If you list 20, I take the 1 or 2 TOUGHEST verses - 1 cor 8:6, etc...)

So please oh please explain John 1:1 and John 10:33 ethically and logically and let's not play bible jumping. It makes you look like you are stuttering and stumbling all over yourself.

One set of passages at a time. And if I remember right John 10:33 was brought up by Boni, which you willing jumped into the fray with. So since you and Boni were so eager to use John 10:33, let's stick to it for a post or two OK.

How do you get only generated from only begotten in John 1:18? Maybe you cannot get a question answered because of your awful misrepresentation of begotten... Even the NWT doesn't go this far ---YET...

Peace,
Bob

Since: May 09

Woodstock, IL

#8394 Nov 11, 2013
Hello Matt,
Matt13weedhacker wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought the Tri{3}nitairans complained that: "...Un-begotten..." was an Arian invention Bob?
And what do you say on: "...the ( Most ) true God, the Father..." in Justin?
Justin never calls Jesus: "...true God..." at all.
You are depending on that awful, unethical WTBTS "Trinity" publication too much.

Sigh...

Peace,
Bob

Since: May 09

Woodstock, IL

#8395 Nov 11, 2013
Hello Matt,
Matt13weedhacker wrote:
<quoted text>
Is the Father the --- same --- "...God..." as Jesus Christ?
"...( the God of ) our Lord Jesus Christ..." Ephesians 1:17
"...the only-generated god..." John 1:18
Same in substance... The Father begot the Son.

Christ is the only BEGOTTEN God. That is why your question does not get answered. You have this incredible awful beyond personal bias use of "only-generated" that even the NWT dare not do.

Please be honest with yourself first, then you might get some answers.

Sheesh - only-generated... Yikes. Check your house for a carbon monoxide leak my friend, before your brain is permanently damaged.

Peace,
Bob
PVA

Fremont, CA

#8396 Nov 11, 2013
Matt13weedhacker wrote:
<quoted text>
What does your Church say?
Who does your Church teach is: "...the Angel ( of ) the Lord..." in the Old Testament?
You still have avoided a question of mine but ,you have asked many since... if you dont want to answer just say so...its fine

my church ??? i will tell you this much...

i have been in a baptist church.........does that make me a baptist

i have been in a catholic church..........am i a catholic

i have been in a wts church ..........would that make me a moron

kidding here ,:) you guys are not morons , just lied to

Since: May 09

Woodstock, IL

#8397 Nov 11, 2013
Schleptik wrote:
<quoted text>
I was going to ask you a similar question, with a slight difference. Before I ask the question, though, the reason I believe in a "TRUE GOD" is because Jesus called what you believe is his Father/person/extension of God the "only true God." He did not say that they may believe that "you and I are the only true God." No, he said "Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." So JESUS spoke of his Father as the only TRUE God. It is not a made-up expression.
Now as for the question I had in mind as soon as I started reading YOUR question -- do you believe that "God" is a person? I mean the big God, you know -- the one that "extends" to the three persongod type thing you all seem to speak about, how those three persons called "God" come about. Is God really three persons? Or manifestations of something called God, who is not a person but manifests itself (itself not being a person) in three separate (?) persons? Are they separate persons? Oh, yes, they must be since Jesus spoke to another manifestation of himself, I guess. Oh, no, that would not make them separate persons, would it?
Or -- is God really THREE PERSONS combined somehow as extensions of, um, something, but the term "God" not being one person, but really three persons. Just wondering.
Did you understand my questions? Because I do, and I can explain them to you if you need help understanding them. Thanks.
I think I understand and if my understand is correct, then it begs the same question I asked of Matt...

How many gods to you have faith in?

For some reason you and all other WTBTS supporters seem to think by calling Christ "a god" it removes your problem with Christ as John explains Him.

I've stated this to Matt and Dave and I will now give it to you...

Here is John's opening salvo:

John 1:1 NASB
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god (or God).
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Verse 2 clarifies verse 1 parts a and b.

- In the beginning was the Word;
- The Word was with God;
- He was in the beginning with God;

This clearly defines the Word's eternal nature. Whatever the beginning is the Word already existed and in that same beginning the Word already existed because he was WITH God.

These statements all taken together clearly eliminate any and all other possible understandings that Christ had a beginning. Verse 2 makes it absolutely clear that one cannot say Christ was the beginning of creation, because He already was with God.

Verse 3 solidifies what was created and who did the creating. Johns states in in two ways. All was created through Him and nothing was created apart from him. The double stating completely removes any implied "other" or "other than" possible understanding from John's statement in verse 3.

So we have The Word was THEOS that is eternal and the source of all creation.

When the term "a god" is used it implies one of many or one within a set of many.

How many gods are both eternal and the source of all creation? One?

If there is only "one" that fits, that kind of rules out "a god" does it not?

Peace,
Bob
PVA

Fremont, CA

#8398 Nov 11, 2013
Boni wrote:
Boni wrote:
What you have to do, if you wish to pursue the Trinity, is to prove the verbatim statement of Jesus quoted above as being UNTRUE.
I'm looking forward to your arguments in this regard.
<quoted text>
I knew you won't go that far to advance your Trinity doctrine. So I also knew you'd chicken out with a failed face-saving bravado.
Jesus said of his Father: "You, the only true God".
Accept it as-is!
:)
are you sayin i'm chicken colonel sanders ???

please stay tuned...

“Read God's Word”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#8399 Nov 11, 2013
beckyss wrote:
<quoted text>
Good evening... it makes perfect sense that Christ would not state "you and I are the true God. It would have meant blasphemy to the authorities and God's plan would not have played out the way it was supposed to.
Oh, that is your way of working it out?
beckyss wrote:
They would have killed him immediately. God had a plan and Jesus had to fulfill every minute and word of it before his sacrifice. Look at what happened when he was questioned about abraham in JOhn 8 48-59
In human form, The father was the father and God of Christ the human. Of course as a human, he would refer to God the father as the one true God. But Christ was also the one true God which manifested into flesh with all the fullness and power and truth and love and strength and ability to forgive as Father God.
Have a good evening.
You, too, have a good evening. You are in essence saying that Jesus was devious. Who told you that? You? Your own thinking? Jesus did not say he was the only true God, you make it sound like he was talking to himself, and he also did not say that he, JESUS, was a false god. He was not talking to two other "persons" there, he was speaking to one Person in prayer. The scripture is clear. Jesus was not God in the flesh while God also of spirit or in spirit, or an extension of whatever, whoever you call God, or the other two persons, however you want to describe that mystical concept known as the trinity. The more I think about the trinitarian answers, the more unrealistic the trinity theory is.
Pam

Bakersfield, CA

#8400 Nov 11, 2013
Schleptik wrote:
Regarding post #8123, it doesn't matter what you think of me. Ihveit has stated he cannot find a church that agrees with him, and dee does not go to church. That is what they have posted. The truth is the truth and shall set one free.
Are you saying you want to encourage them to attend a church again?
That if they attended a church, that would make them more correct?
Pam

Bakersfield, CA

#8401 Nov 11, 2013
Schleptik wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, that is your way of working it out?
<quoted text>
You, too, have a good evening. You are in essence saying that Jesus was devious. Who told you that? You? Your own thinking? Jesus did not say he was the only true God, you make it sound like he was talking to himself, and he also did not say that he, JESUS, was a false god. He was not talking to two other "persons" there, he was speaking to one Person in prayer. The scripture is clear. Jesus was not God in the flesh while God also of spirit or in spirit, or an extension of whatever, whoever you call God, or the other two persons, however you want to describe that mystical concept known as the trinity. The more I think about the trinitarian answers, the more unrealistic the trinity theory is.
Actually the WTS is devious if we use your thoughts about it. when they played a situation in 2 different countries, Malawi and Mexico different ways. In Malawi they wouldn't accept a card that affiliated them with the only political party there. They were tortured and killed because the WTS wanted them to stand for their concept of joining or carrying a political card.

In mexico it was ok to bribe authorities to get them to sign a mans military service card...saying they had already served it, so they wouldn't have to go to jail for refusing mandatory military service of a year.

I knew JW brothers that went to jail here in the USA for not joining or going in for being drafted in the Vietnam war.

Seems it was ok for the Mexican brothers to bribe officials to get a card saying they had served their country in the military!

Talk about inconsistencies!
What say you oh learned Schlep?
Pam

Bakersfield, CA

#8402 Nov 11, 2013
The WTS has been very devious throughout their history.
They call it righteous warfare. Theocratic warfare.

Even God himself allowed a wrong thought to take place with a Hebrew king, resulting in death.
Was that devious?
I think Jesus is allowed to let people think what they want even if it is wrong, it is their choice to do or not do something, with no interference from God or his Son. Not lies, but allowing others to think wrong thoughts if that is what they choose.
The WTS takes it beyond that.
They don;t allow anything...they TELL you what to do and not do.
They go beyond the Bible and it's principles.
They have set themselves up in a superior position to decide what is ok or not even when it means loss of ones life.
Pat

AOL

#8403 Nov 11, 2013
Pam wrote:
The WTS has been very devious throughout their history.
They call it righteous warfare. Theocratic warfare.
Even God himself allowed a wrong thought to take place with a Hebrew king, resulting in death.
Was that devious?
I think Jesus is allowed to let people think what they want even if it is wrong, it is their choice to do or not do something, with no interference from God or his Son. Not lies, but allowing others to think wrong thoughts if that is what they choose.
The WTS takes it beyond that.
They don;t allow anything...they TELL you what to do and not do.
They go beyond the Bible and it's principles.
They have set themselves up in a superior position to decide what is ok or not even when it means loss of ones life.
Had Jesus came out and said in so many words I AM GOD he would have been killed right then and there but he did say he was GOD'S SON which in essence was the same thing he was saying he was equal to God yet in not so many words , they wanted to stone him for saying that .
Jesus came here as a man , a human being he lived and functioned as a man , he became as his bretheren like us in every way .Being in human form there is no way he would have said he was GOD no human is equal to God while in his humanity Jesus relied on his Father for everything and he was clear about that
7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Jesus came here for a specific purpose he had to complete that mission had they killed him before he had fullfilled what he came here to do where would that leave us ?

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#8404 Nov 11, 2013
Matt13weedhacker wrote:
Sorry but a post didn't show up.
“New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures,” With References, Rendered from the Original Languages by the New World Bible Translation Committee—Revised 1984.
2nd Samuel 3:21(C):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 4:8(D):“...JEHOVAH GIVES TO MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 9:11(C):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 11:9(C):“...THE KINGS … OF HIS LORD...”
2nd Samuel 11:(D):“...MY LORD...”
2nd Samuel 12:7(B):“... JEHOVAH THE GOD OF ISRAEL HAS SAID, I MYSELF ANOINTED YOU AS KING OVER ISRAEL...”
2nd Samuel 12:8(B):“...YOUR LORD...”
2nd Samuel 12:8(C):“...YOUR LORD...”
2nd Samuel 13:32(B):“...MY LORD...”
2nd Samuel 13:32(F):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 14:9(C):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 14:12(C):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 14:9(C):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 14:9(C):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 14:9(C):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 14:9(C):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 14:14(C):“...THE KING MY LORD ...”
2nd Samuel 14:17(B):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 14:17(C):“... FOR JUST LIKE AN ANGEL OF THE [TRUE] GOD IS THE WAY MY LORD THE KING IS...”
2nd Samuel 14:18(D):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 14:19(C):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 14:19(D):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 14:20(C):“...MY LORD IS WISE AS WITH THE WISDOM OF THE ANGEL OF THE [TRUE] GOD SO AS TO KNOW ALL THAT IS IN THE EARTH...”
2nd Samuel 14:22(B):“...JOAB FELL UPON HIS FACE TO THE EARTH AND PROSTRATED HIMSELF AND BLESSED THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 14:22(D):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 15:15(C):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 15:21(C):“...AS JEHOVAH IS LIVING AND AS MY LORD THE KING IS LIVING...”
2nd Samuel 15:21(E):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 16:4(C):“...ZIBA SAID:“I DO BOW DOWN. LET ME FIND FAVOR IN YOUR EYES...”
2nd Samuel 16:4(D):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 16:9(D):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 18:28(B):“... AHIMAAZ CALLED AND SAID TO THE KING:“IT IS WELL!” WITH THAT HE BOWED TO THE KING WITH HIS FACE TO THE EARTH...”
2nd Samuel 18:28(E):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 18:31(B):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 18:32(D):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 19:19(A):“...THE KING … MY LORD...”
2nd Samuel 18:19(C):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 18:20(D):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 19:26(A):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 19:27(A):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 19:27(A):“...MY LORD THE KING IS AS AN ANGEL OF THE [TRUE] GOD...”
2nd Samuel 19:28(C):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 19:30(C):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 19:35(C):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 19:37(E):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 24:3(E):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 24:21(A):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
2nd Samuel 24:22(A):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
You are misquoting the New Translation of the Holy Scriptures (NWTHS)
NWTHS 2 Samuel 3:21
Then Abner said to David::Let me rise up and go and collectall Israel together to my lord the king, that they may conclude a covenant with you, and you will certainly become king over all that your soul craves." so David sent Abner off, and he got on his way in peace.
Your version of NWTHS 2 Samuel 3:21:
2nd Samuel 3:21(C):“...MY LORD THE KING...”
NWTHS 2 Samuel 14:20
For the sake of altering the face of the matter your servant Joab has done this thing, but my lord is wise as with the true wisdom of the angel of the [true God so as to know all that is in the earth.
Your version of NWTHS 2 Samuel 14:20
2nd Samuel 14:20(C):“...MY LORD IS WISE AS WITH THE WISDOM OF THE ANGEL OF THE [TRUE] GOD SO AS TO KNOW ALL THAT IS IN THE EARTH...”
NWTHS 2 Samuel 19:27
So he slandered your servant to my lord the king. But my lord the king, is as an angel of the [true] God, and so do what is good in your eyes.
your version of 2 Samuel 19:27
2nd Samuel 19:27(A):“...MY LORD THE KING IS AS AN ANGEL OF THE [TRUE] GOD...”

Did you answer my post in clarify with scripture?

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#8405 Nov 11, 2013
PassingTheTest wrote:
Hello angelsilv,
<quoted text>
That is the obvious point Christ was making to the Pharisees, but he just let them chew on that thought. For If Christ would point it out to them, they would not have reflected on it. When one can come to their own conclusion, it is just that more damning.
Peace,
Bob
Hello Bob,
This is true. I just wanted to point it out so that the witness(es) could think about it.
Peace be with you as well,
Angel.
PVA

Fremont, CA

#8406 Nov 11, 2013
Dave47 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi PVA.
My last comments for now ---past my bedtime.
I assume that you interpret Genesis 1:26 and the word God is only referring to one person of the Trinity and "us" as being the other two persons of the Trinity. Does this not beg questions like the following:
(a) Were Adam and Eve created as a Tri-unity Human in that a complete Human would be three distinct persons but three in one?
(b) God is described as a spirit(John 4:24) why was Adam and Eve not created in the same image that members of the Trinity(spirits) were.
(c) Angels are called spirits (Hebrews 1:14), would that not suggest they are an image of God?
All the Best
Dave
g'day Dave ,

genesis is a good start... the beginning...

this is what we have and where we are so far for argument sake...

gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. niv

who do you suppose is speaking here ... Father , Son , HS , or moses

gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

who spoke or who is speaking the words THEN GOD SAID ,seems to be moses...

who spoke or who is speaking the words LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE...

what we do know here at this point is its NOT moses.. we dont Know if it is the Father or the Son do we ???, or even the HS for that matter...as per genesis

gen 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

here the narrative comes from moses again...

at this point there is no verse saying the angels were created in GODS image or that they assisted in creation...

The Let Us and Our Image

Let US meaning more than one...
Our Image meaning the persons included in the Let Us...

what the bible says about your questions..

.A. adam and eve were created in the likeness/image of GOD this image in part explained at gen 1:26 to rule over all the earth and everything in it.

angels rule over nothing, they are servants

but note: at gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. niv

man / woman have been described as per the bible as Flesh , Soul , and Spirit

B. GOD has been described as per the bible as having Flesh , Soul , and Spirit...

C. angels are spirit... heb 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?


now we are right back to where we started when i asked in the other post where is the verse that says angels were created in GODS image...

without this verse we can only believe that the

Let us and the our image of Genesis teaches there are Persons within the being of GOD...or he is talking to himself...pick one

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#8407 Nov 11, 2013
PVA wrote:
<quoted text>
......
gen 3:5 "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will " be like God," knowing good and evil." said the serpent...
gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
since the serpent refers to like GOD and not like us or one of us , he the serpent has excluded himself from being like GOD or like humans... so he's out...
and in gen 3:22 i see no definitive proof that the person of GOD was speaking to angels and not the other person/persons of GOD himself...
so we are back to square one looking for the verse where angels are said to be created
in the image of GOD...
if the verse does in fact exist now would be a good time to reveal it...
but even then if the verse were to be found it would still need some heavy reasoning and much support by other bible verses to lead one to believe that angels are the ones refered to in gen 3:22 gen 3:5 gen 1:26
So if We cannot find a verse stating angels are created in the image of GOD , We must believe one of the following...
1. that GOD is schizophrenic and talks to himself or
2. that he is speaking to the other person/persons of GOD ...
i choose the latter rather than the former... what say you Dave...
Hi PVA

The word "us" is not defined in Genesis 1:26. From that verse alone we would only be able to determine the word "God" which is in the singular and confirmed in verse 27 with the use of "he". There is no way either you or I can determine who the "us" is except by implication from other scriptures.

The first introduction is to the serpent is in Genesis 3:4-5(NASB) "The serpent said to the woman,“You surely will not die! 5 For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 

Satan(the serpent) is described more fully in Ezekiel 28:13-19(NASB) where it states: "13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz, and the diamond; the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper; the lapis lazuli, the turquoise, and the emerald; and the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, was in you.  On the day that you were created they were prepared.  14 You were the anointed cherub who covers, and I placed you there."

In Genesis 3:22(NASB) it says: "Then the Lord God said,“Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now"

Genesis 3:24(NASB) says: "So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim ".

The serpent is described as a "cherub" in Ezekiel and was the covering angel. Satan was said to be created. In Genesis 3:24 it says "He stationed the "cherubim". God is also described in the singular with the pronoun "he". It appears from these verses that God is speaking and directing angels or the "us" in Genesis which puts to rest your False Dilemna choices at the end of your post.

All the Best

Dave

PVA

Fremont, CA

#8408 Nov 11, 2013
Dave47 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi PVA
The word "us" is not defined in Genesis 1:26. From that verse alone we would only be able to determine the word "God" which is in the singular and confirmed in verse 27 with the use of "he". There is no way either you or I can determine who the "us" is except by implication from other scriptures.
The first introduction is to the serpent is in Genesis 3:4-5(NASB) "The serpent said to the woman,“You surely will not die! 5 For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 
Satan(the serpent) is described more fully in Ezekiel 28:13-19(NASB) where it states: "13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz, and the diamond; the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper; the lapis lazuli, the turquoise, and the emerald; and the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, was in you.  On the day that you were created they were prepared.  14 You were the anointed cherub who covers, and I placed you there."
In Genesis 3:22(NASB) it says: "Then the Lord God said,“Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now"
Genesis 3:24(NASB) says: "So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim ".
The serpent is described as a "cherub" in Ezekiel and was the covering angel. Satan was said to be created. In Genesis 3:24 it says "He stationed the "cherubim". God is also described in the singular with the pronoun "he". It appears from these verses that God is speaking and directing angels or the "us" in Genesis which puts to rest your False Dilemna choices at the end of your post.
All the Best
Dave
g'day dave

you are kinda all over the place in this post , see post 8406 also.

you are stating 1:27 disqualifies 1:26 because the singular HE ???

in the narrative by moses and most everyone else no matter if they are a believer in the trinity or not refer to GOD as HE dont they ???

Now that i have your attention can we address the question posed to you and matt many times already...

where is the verse that says angels are created in GODS image???

Now i can ask this question a couple thousand times and it wouldnt come close to boni's where is trinity question would it ???

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#8409 Nov 11, 2013
PVA wrote:
<quoted text>
g'day Dave ,
genesis is a good start... the beginning...
this is what we have and where we are so far for argument sake...
gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. niv
who do you suppose is speaking here ... Father , Son , HS , or moses
gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
who spoke or who is speaking the words THEN GOD SAID ,seems to be moses...
who spoke or who is speaking the words LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE...
what we do know here at this point is its NOT moses.. we dont Know if it is the Father or the Son do we ???, or even the HS for that matter...as per genesis
gen 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
here the narrative comes from moses again...
at this point there is no verse saying the angels were created in GODS image or that they assisted in creation...
The Let Us and Our Image
Let US meaning more than one...
Our Image meaning the persons included in the Let Us...
what the bible says about your questions..
.A. adam and eve were created in the likeness/image of GOD this image in part explained at gen 1:26 to rule over all the earth and everything in it.
angels rule over nothing, they are servants
but note: at gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. niv
man / woman have been described as per the bible as Flesh , Soul , and Spirit
B. GOD has been described as per the bible as having Flesh , Soul , and Spirit...
C. angels are spirit... heb 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
now we are right back to where we started when i asked in the other post where is the verse that says angels were created in GODS image...
without this verse we can only believe that the
Let us and the our image of Genesis teaches there are Persons within the being of GOD...or he is talking to himself...pick one
Hi PVA

Just a brief comment for now -- will answer the rest tomorrow.

One comment in your post caught my eye and I wonder if you want to explain it further. This is what you posted:

"man / woman have been described as per the bible as Flesh , Soul , and Spirit
B. GOD has been described as per the bible as having Flesh , Soul , and Spirit."

My question is. "Are you suggesting that God, before he made Adam and Eve, was composed of Flesh, Soul, and Spirit?" Did not Jesus become flesh and made lower than the angels when he came to Earth, which suggests that he was different before he came down?

All the Best

Dave
PVA

Fremont, CA

#8410 Nov 11, 2013
Dave47 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi PVA
The word "us" is not defined in Genesis 1:26. From that verse alone we would only be able to determine the word "God" which is in the singular and confirmed in verse 27 with the use of "he". There is no way either you or I can determine who the "us" is except by implication from other scriptures.
The first introduction is to the serpent is in Genesis 3:4-5(NASB) "The serpent said to the woman,“You surely will not die! 5 For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 
Satan(the serpent) is described more fully in Ezekiel 28:13-19(NASB) where it states: "13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz, and the diamond; the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper; the lapis lazuli, the turquoise, and the emerald; and the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, was in you.  On the day that you were created they were prepared.  14 You were the anointed cherub who covers, and I placed you there."
In Genesis 3:22(NASB) it says: "Then the Lord God said,“Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now"
Genesis 3:24(NASB) says: "So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim ".
The serpent is described as a "cherub" in Ezekiel and was the covering angel. Satan was said to be created. In Genesis 3:24 it says "He stationed the "cherubim". God is also described in the singular with the pronoun "he". It appears from these verses that God is speaking and directing angels or the "us" in Genesis which puts to rest your False Dilemna choices at the end of your post.
All the Best
Dave
WHERE DO YOU SEE GOD IS SPEAKING TO ANGELS IN GEN 1:26 ???

HOW HAVE I GIVEN YOU A FALSE DILEMMA , IN WHAT WAY ???

look into your nwt bible , find the verses quoted and read them for yourself...

and DONT wikipedia me to death please...read from your bible then read what i stated in my post and

show me where i made assumptions or twisted , or distorted ANY of those verses..........show me!
PVA

Fremont, CA

#8411 Nov 12, 2013
Dave47 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi PVA
Just a brief comment for now -- will answer the rest tomorrow.
One comment in your post caught my eye and I wonder if you want to explain it further. This is what you posted:
"man / woman have been described as per the bible as Flesh , Soul , and Spirit
B. GOD has been described as per the bible as having Flesh , Soul , and Spirit."
My question is. "Are you suggesting that God, before he made Adam and Eve, was composed of Flesh, Soul, and Spirit?" Did not Jesus become flesh and made lower than the angels when he came to Earth, which suggests that he was different before he came down?
All the Best
Dave
are you twisting things up on purpose or are you really NOT reading what was posted???

what i wrote about man/woman created in GODS image is there for any open eyes to see...

what i said about flesh soul and spirit You try and twist out of context...

i merely state what the bible describes in verses outside of gen 1:26

i did not say or imply FATHER / LOGOS / HOLY SPIRIT were in flesh before creation of our earth...

however our GOD is all knowing and as 1 pet 1:20 states

He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

SO our creator already Knew what was to be with us didnt HE ...

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