Hi Becky<quoted text>
Hi Dave, You are one person on this forum who does hold opposite beliefs about God the Father, God the Son, and God the HS than me and whom I hold more respect for you than any other person who holds opposite beliefs. I am writing this in response to an honest answer I am seeking,(actually any answer). For you see, I have asked many, many, many people of opposing beliefs on here why they believe that in Isaiah 9:6 that Jesus, the foretold child to be born is called "Everlasting Father"and "Wonderful counselor" Every person I have asked,(which has been many) has been more than willing to address the titles of "mighty God' and 'Prince of Peace', But NOT ONE has answered to why Christ is called Everlasing Father and Wonderful Counselor (as the HS) is referred to in the NT by Jesus himself)..
Can and will you give me your understanding/explanation of this please?
PS. I am rather disappointed that you did not respond to my post (which was in response to yours) about 'of all' and 'over all' in Col 1: 15 and 16 (unless I missed it along the way because I've been off for a few day...)
I am apologize that I didn't directly reply. I had replied to Matt13's comment on the word "of" and simply expanded on his points. I did make a short reply to you that simply directed you to Matt's post. Below I will repost what I had I had posted.
I have searched Strongs Concordance for the words "firstborn over" and "firstborn of". I did the search of the NIV because that is the Bible Becky used, and it has "over" in Colossians 1:15 after "firstborn". The search came back with only One(1) hit that used "firstborn over" in the NIV and that was Colossians 1:15. When I did a search of the NIV for "firstborn of" I had Thirty-two(32) hits, and after reviewing them I feel quite confident that each verse used "firstborn of" in the partitive as the "firstborn" was part of a group
The use of "over" at Colossians 1:15 strikes me as "Special Pleading". A couple of points about Paul the author of Colossians 1:15 (a well educated Pharisee).
(1) Paul used the word "preeminence" in Colossians 1:18:
"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence" The Greek word used here is "Proteuo" which Strongs G4409 says: "To be first, hold the first place".
I have asked many times why didn't Paul use "Proteuo" in Colossians 1:15 if he was stressing "preeminence"?
(2) Paul was also aware of the Greek Word for "over". See: Strongs G5231----huperano hoop-er-an'- o from 5228 and 507; above upward, i.e. greatly higher (in place or rank):--far above, over.The NIV uses. "Hupo" "huperano" at:
"Ephesions 1:21-22"21 "far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,"
Would Paul not have used "huperano" if he was stressing "preeimenence" in Colossians 1:15?
I did expand on this in a later post as well which I well repost.
In regards to Isaiah 9:6 and your comments--- I will try to post a brief response later tonight.
All the Best