What is the trinity?
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Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#1 Apr 19, 2013
No one knows. Well, in a general way they know. It's a doctrine that most of the religions calling themselves "Christian" accept. But do they know what it is from the position of understanding it? Not really. In fact, except for a few apologists here and there, most of the people attending those churches haven't a clue. In some cases, they just think it's part of the name of their denomination, like Trinity Baptist, or Trinity Methodist, or Trinity Lutheran, as opposed to some other kind of Baptist, Methodist, or Lutheran, etc. When The notion is thrown up to the apologists that they haven't a clue, either, they right away denounce the Trinity Doctrine, and run from it. They will say something like..."I don't need a Creed to tell me how to worship", or a similar sentiment.

Well, I'm calling them on it. Most of them ridicule the Witnesses, for the same practices they are themselves guilty, worshiping something they don't really understand. The Witnesses don't realize that by allowing their Governing Body to do their thinking for them, they are following men. When you accept the Trinity Doctrine without first understanding it, you are in effect allowing someone else to do your thinking for you. Different church, same pew. If you can't explain it, then you don't understand it. If you have to explain it some other way than using the bible, then it isn't part of the bible.

The bible is God's revealed word. It is everything men could or should, know about Him. That is why changes can't be made to it. If they are made, then it is about something else. Not God. Even a little leavening ferments the whole lump. The Trinity Doctrine is a whole lot of leavening. That is why the worlds religions are in the shape they are in. They accept the teachings of men, as the doctrines of God. The Witnesses too are guilty, in their own way. But this is about the large group of hypocrites calling themselves Trinitarians.

sidgi

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#2 Apr 19, 2013
Thats funny, seems you brought the detest for "christendom" home with you.

Just wondering something Sidgi?

Do you know anyone else in the world that you think understands the bible better than yourself?

No need to answer. Just mull that one over.#1 can be a lonely spot.

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#3 Apr 19, 2013
sidgi wrote:
No one knows. Well, in a general way they know. It's a doctrine that most of the religions calling themselves "Christian" accept. But do they know what it is from the position of understanding it? Not really. In fact, except for a few apologists here and there, most of the people attending those churches haven't a clue. In some cases, they just think it's part of the name of their denomination, like Trinity Baptist, or Trinity Methodist, or Trinity Lutheran, as opposed to some other kind of Baptist, Methodist, or Lutheran, etc. When The notion is thrown up to the apologists that they haven't a clue, either, they right away denounce the Trinity Doctrine, and run from it. They will say something like..."I don't need a Creed to tell me how to worship", or a similar sentiment.
Well, I'm calling them on it. Most of them ridicule the Witnesses, for the same practices they are themselves guilty, worshiping something they don't really understand. The Witnesses don't realize that by allowing their Governing Body to do their thinking for them, they are following men. When you accept the Trinity Doctrine without first understanding it, you are in effect allowing someone else to do your thinking for you. Different church, same pew. If you can't explain it, then you don't understand it. If you have to explain it some other way than using the bible, then it isn't part of the bible.
The bible is God's revealed word. It is everything men could or should, know about Him. That is why changes can't be made to it. If they are made, then it is about something else. Not God. Even a little leavening ferments the whole lump. The Trinity Doctrine is a whole lot of leavening. That is why the worlds religions are in the shape they are in. They accept the teachings of men, as the doctrines of God. The Witnesses too are guilty, in their own way. But this is about the large group of hypocrites calling themselves Trinitarians.
sidgi
The biggest mystery about the trinity is why you are so obsessed about it.
Major Exposure

Duluth, GA

#4 Apr 19, 2013
How can you be opposed to something you admit you know nothing about?

Oh, I get it, you are just doing what you were told to do by men.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#5 Apr 19, 2013
Kevin 321 wrote:
Thats funny, seems you brought the detest for "christendom" home with you.
Just wondering something Sidgi?
Do you know anyone else in the world that you think understands the bible better than yourself?
No need to answer. Just mull that one over.#1 can be a lonely spot.
Why do you think that would matter to me. I am happy that I know what I know. I don't think it. On the other hand I know that there are things I don't know. On those I have an opinion, sometimes, but on most of them, I just don't know.

sidgi

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#6 Apr 19, 2013
Doulon wrote:
<quoted text>
The biggest mystery about the trinity is why you are so obsessed about it.
I wonder if you ever have an honest thought. The trinity doctrine is the single most driving factor, on this and other, apologetic sites where Jehovah's witnesses are invited to post. The trinity, blood, and Demon worship are the top three. Most of the posters treading on the blood and demon worship categories, also are favorable to the trinity. I am an equal opportunity annoyance.

Do you believe I started this thread thinking to get someone to actually post? No, I just wish to take them all down a peg or two, to make them think. How about that Keven?

sidgi

sidgi

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#7 Apr 19, 2013
Major Exposure wrote:
How can you be opposed to something you admit you know nothing about?
Oh, I get it, you are just doing what you were told to do by men.
Are you just going to stand on the outside and not accept the challenge. Count yourself a loser without even a fair go?

sidgi
Lannymac

Opelousas, LA

#8 Apr 19, 2013
His father satan appointed and anointed him especially to denounce the Trinity.

The poor sap is obsessed with doing his father's will.
Annette

Saint Catharines, Canada

#9 Apr 19, 2013
Sidgi: Did you figure out the trinity was false from your personal research of the Bible or from the Watchtower?
The first version of Psalm 8 is from NIV, second from Hebrew Interlinear.
Psalm 8
1 Lord, our Lord,how majestic is your name in all the earth! You have set your glory in the heavens.
2 Through the praise of children and infants you have established a stronghold against your enemies,
to silence the foe and the avenger.
3 When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers,the moon and the stars,which you have set in place,
4 what is mankind that you are mindful of them, human beings that you care for them?[c]
5 You have made them[d] a little lower than the angels and crowned them[f] with glory and honor.
6 You made them rulers over the works of your hands;you put everything under their feet:
7 all flocks and herds,and the animals of the wild,
8 the birds in the sky,and the fish in the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas.
9 Lord, our Lord,how majestic is your name in all the earth!

Psalm 8 Hebrew Interlinear
&#65279;for the one-making-it-permanent on the winetrough psalm to David ""Yahweh lords-of us"" (Hebrew-adni nu-lords)what ! noble name-of you in all-of then earth who give-you ! splendor-of you on the heavens from mouth-of unweaned-children and ones-being-sucklings you-founded strength on-account-of ones-being-foes-of you to to-cause-to-cease-of one-being-enemy and one-avenging that I-am-seeing heavens-of you deeds-of fingers-of you moon and stars which you- established what ? mortal that you-are-being-mindful-of him and son-of human that you-are-visiting him and you-are-making-lack him little from ""Elohim"" (plural)and glory and honor you-are-crowning him you-are-making-rule him in deeds-of hands-of you all you-set under feet-of him flock and domestic-animals all-of them and moreover beasts-of field bird-of heavens and fishes-of the sea crossing paths-of seas ""Yahweh lords-of us"" (Hebrew-adni nu-lords)what! noble name-of you in all-of the earth

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#10 Apr 19, 2013
sidgi wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder if you ever have an honest thought. The trinity doctrine is the single most driving factor, on this and other, apologetic sites where Jehovah's witnesses are invited to post. The trinity, blood, and Demon worship are the top three. Most of the posters treading on the blood and demon worship categories, also are favorable to the trinity. I am an equal opportunity annoyance.
Do you believe I started this thread thinking to get someone to actually post? No, I just wish to take them all down a peg or two, to make them think. How about that Keven?
sidgi
sidgi
I think those 3 have been drilled into JWs heads so much that it usually becomes the topic of discussion.

And yes, "taking them all down a peg or two" answers my question completely.
Lannymac

Opelousas, LA

#11 Apr 19, 2013
sidgi wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you just going to stand on the outside and not accept the challenge. Count yourself a loser without even a fair go?
sidgi
Yeah right... as if to say, you can explain how a lowly creature can declare..."when you see me, you've seen my lofty creator"?

So how can a creature say such a thing and not be an egomaniacal liar.

Lol...why not just show from the scriptures the cloning of your god?

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#12 Apr 19, 2013
Annette wrote:
Sidgi: Did you figure out the trinity was false from your personal research of the Bible or from the Watchtower?
The first version of Psalm 8 is from NIV, second from Hebrew Interlinear.
Psalm 8
1 Lord, our Lord,how majestic is your name in all the earth! You have set your glory in the heavens.
2 Through the praise of children and infants you have established a stronghold against your enemies,
to silence the foe and the avenger.
3 When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers,the moon and the stars,which you have set in place,
4 what is mankind that you are mindful of them, human beings that you care for them?[c]
5 You have made them[d] a little lower than the angels and crowned them[f] with glory and honor.
6 You made them rulers over the works of your hands;you put everything under their feet:
7 all flocks and herds,and the animals of the wild,
8 the birds in the sky,and the fish in the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas.
9 Lord, our Lord,how majestic is your name in all the earth!
Psalm 8 Hebrew Interlinear
&#65279;for the one-making-it-permanent on the winetrough psalm to David ""Yahweh lords-of us"" (Hebrew-adni nu-lords)what ! noble name-of you in all-of then earth who give-you ! splendor-of you on the heavens from mouth-of unweaned-children and ones-being-sucklings you-founded strength on-account-of ones-being-foes-of you to to-cause-to-cease-of one-being-enemy and one-avenging that I-am-seeing heavens-of you deeds-of fingers-of you moon and stars which you- established what ? mortal that you-are-being-mindful-of him and son-of human that you-are-visiting him and you-are-making-lack him little from ""Elohim"" (plural)and glory and honor you-are-crowning him you-are-making-rule him in deeds-of hands-of you all you-set under feet-of him flock and domestic-animals all-of them and moreover beasts-of field bird-of heavens and fishes-of the sea crossing paths-of seas ""Yahweh lords-of us"" (Hebrew-adni nu-lords)what! noble name-of you in all-of the earth
When I was a youngster, I used to go to the Trinity Methodist church, and I hadn't a clue what Trinity meant. I wasn't curious, and no one even tried to explain it. I was one of those that thought it was just a differentiation in denomination. It seemed the point of it all, was to preach a sermon, and pass the collection plate. The first time I heard that there was a doctrinal meaning to Trinity, was through the Watchtower. I was still quite young, and mom used to take the magazines. I have searched the scriptures for years trying to both, make sense of it, and failing that, find out what drives people to believe in it. One thing I know, it isn't taught in the bible.

sidgi

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#13 Apr 19, 2013
Kevin 321 wrote:
<quoted text>
I think those 3 have been drilled into JWs heads so much that it usually becomes the topic of discussion.
And yes, "taking them all down a peg or two" answers my question completely.
There you go. You see, I am honest.

sidgi
Major Exposure

Duluth, GA

#15 Apr 19, 2013
sidgi wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you just going to stand on the outside and not accept the challenge. Count yourself a loser without even a fair go?
sidgi
You are the loser.

I don't need to fight God's battles. His word tells me you are already defeated.
Annette

Saint Catharines, Canada

#16 Apr 19, 2013
"Sidgi wrote: The first time I heard that there was a doctrinal meaning to Trinity, was through the Watchtower. I was still quite young, and mom used to take the magazines. I have searched the scriptures for years trying to both, make sense of it, and failing that, find out what drives people to believe in it. One thing I know, it isn't taught in the bible."

You have admitted that you were quite young when the Watchtower told you that the Trinity was false. You can't find it anywhere in the Bible. I beg to differ. It is in the Bible. It's everywhere. Because the Watchtower told you otherwise you just can't see it. I challenge you to read the Bible, use different versions, download the Hebrew Interlinear and Greek Interlinear.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#18 Apr 19, 2013
Major Exposure wrote:
<quoted text>
You are the loser.
I don't need to fight God's battles. His word tells me you are already defeated.
Then why do you post? Just to satisfy some vicarious need?

sidgi
Annette

Saint Catharines, Canada

#19 Apr 19, 2013
Sidgi, did you read my first post? Psalm 8 in the Hebrew Interlinear states Yahweh lords of us. Elohim is plural. How do you account for that?

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#20 Apr 19, 2013
sidgi wrote:
<quoted text>
There you go. You see, I am honest.
sidgi
I never questioned your honesty. That was not me.

A Snickers bar is still a Snickers bar, even if its wrapped in a Twix wrapper. Understand?

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#21 Apr 19, 2013
Annette wrote:
"Sidgi wrote: The first time I heard that there was a doctrinal meaning to Trinity, was through the Watchtower. I was still quite young, and mom used to take the magazines. I have searched the scriptures for years trying to both, make sense of it, and failing that, find out what drives people to believe in it. One thing I know, it isn't taught in the bible."
You have admitted that you were quite young when the Watchtower told you that the Trinity was false. You can't find it anywhere in the Bible. I beg to differ. It is in the Bible. It's everywhere. Because the Watchtower told you otherwise you just can't see it. I challenge you to read the Bible, use different versions, download the Hebrew Interlinear and Greek Interlinear.
Hey your word isn't enough. The Athenasian Creed "is" the trinity doctrine, and the bible holds nothing like that. It is all Babylonish gobble-de-gook. It is completely men's words. Not one scripture to back it up. Parse it scripturally if you can.

sidgi

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#22 Apr 19, 2013
Annette wrote:
Sidgi, did you read my first post? Psalm 8 in the Hebrew Interlinear states Yahweh lords of us. Elohim is plural. How do you account for that?
Did you read mine? I don't have to account for it. It is an ambiguous statement. It can be understood several different ways. I want something definitive. Heck anyone can take a guess. It takes solid evidence to establish the core belief of the majority of Christendom. If you can't explain the Athenasian Creed, you can only allude to possibilities. Other things are possibilities too.

sidgi

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