The meaning of the word Paradise, as it is used in the Bible...

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Why

Scarborough, UK

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#21
Oct 31, 2012
 

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SusieB wrote:
<quoted text>
You could also be leaping to conclusions from mens translations and definitions/usage of the word.
It also takes into the defining of it [to mean], park city, walled enclosure, garden, domain and a few other similar in meaning words. In essence it could simply mean "KINGDOM" and probably does.
Now that is just my own "thought" and not from any other source.
Jerusalem fit that word also...a walled enclosure/domain.
I just have this feeling that Paradise is wherever Jesus is/goes and rules.
By the way, scripture does not give any account if the 2 thieves/criminals crucified alongside Jesus were Jews or gentiles; nor does it say where paradise is. Thank you for the reply.
because Jesus and the apostles including all the Jews thereabouts use the Greek Septuagint scrolls of the Hebrew Scriptures they heard the word "paradis" Greek for "garden" loads of times in it (also derived from the "Pardis")so Jesus used it deliberate referring to this coming restored edenic garden future much promised in the Hebrew Scriptures after Jehovah's day and the wicked are no more. That the Romans were ruling over the Jews and he used a Jewish promise to the criminal and the criminals own knowledge shows he was very likely to be Jewish or had a lot of contact.
Why

Scarborough, UK

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#22
Oct 31, 2012
 

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SusieB wrote:
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Sorry, I forgot to ask what scripture you are speaking of where "Jesus" said the meek inherit the earth. Thank you :)
sermon of the mount found in a couple of the gospels he is directly quoting prophetic psalms talking about Jehovah's day and beyond. Psalm 37
SusieB

Pasco, WA

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#23
Oct 31, 2012
 

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Why wrote:
<quoted text> sermon of the mount found in a couple of the gospels he is directly quoting prophetic psalms talking about Jehovah's day and beyond. Psalm 37
You are speaking of Matthew 5...the "Happinesses" right?
Well Matthew 5:3 says those who are conscience of their spiritual needs own the heavens.
Are you saying that the GB/FD are the only ones who are conscience of their spiritual needs?
What about Matthew 5:5? Do you believe the GB/FDS aren't mild tempered so they inherit the heavens instead?
Matthew 5:8 says the pure in heart will SEE God; You want us all to believe that ONLY the GB/FDS are pure in heart?
Matthew 5:9 says the peaceable will called sons of God; Again you believe and want us to believe only the GB/FS are peaceable people?
Matthew 5:10 says the persecuted will own the heavens...in what ways are the GB/FDS persecuted and you believe and want us to believe they are the only perscuted people?

Perhaps you should read those scriptures over and over and then sit and think about the hypocrisy that is coming out of NY.

John 3:16 says Jesus died for the WHOLE WORLD...not a phony group of men trying to control people.
Why

Scarborough, UK

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#24
Oct 31, 2012
 

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SusieB wrote:
<quoted text>
You are speaking of Matthew 5...the "Happinesses" right?
Well Matthew 5:3 says those who are conscience of their spiritual needs own the heavens.
Are you saying that the GB/FD are the only ones who are conscience of their spiritual needs?
What about Matthew 5:5? Do you believe the GB/FDS aren't mild tempered so they inherit the heavens instead?
Matthew 5:8 says the pure in heart will SEE God; You want us all to believe that ONLY the GB/FDS are pure in heart?
Matthew 5:9 says the peaceable will called sons of God; Again you believe and want us to believe only the GB/FS are peaceable people?
Matthew 5:10 says the persecuted will own the heavens...in what ways are the GB/FDS persecuted and you believe and want us to believe they are the only perscuted people?
Perhaps you should read those scriptures over and over and then sit and think about the hypocrisy that is coming out of NY.
John 3:16 says Jesus died for the WHOLE WORLD...not a phony group of men trying to control people.
I'm not trying to create conflicts in scripture! Jesus is highlighting the pluses of both groups and not setting up a negative comparison!

You cannot wipe out Matt 5,5 as if it doesn't exist. It is there and has to be understood expecially as it is a direct quote from psalms 37 on those who do get to live on a beautiful garden peace filled earth after Jehovah's day and the wicked destroyed.

Since: Jun 11

Perth, Australia

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#25
Oct 31, 2012
 

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Why wrote:
<quoted text> he is directly quoting from psalms which is prophetically about the future event specially Jehovah's day...psalm 37; 11-13 meek inherit earth....his day
Watchtower 1959 August 1 p.479 "When Jesus said, as recorded at Matthew 5:5, "Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth," of whom was he speaking?-H. S., U.S.A. Jesus here applied the expression "mild-tempered" or "meek" to his disciples of that time who were in line for the heavenly kingdom. He was the chief meek one among them and their example. Hebrews 1:1, 2 and 2:5, 6 show that Jesus inherits the earth or takes over the possession of it. His disciples were made his joint heirs in the Kingdom and enter into this inheritance or possession of the earth with him. Hence Matthew 5:5 does not strictly apply to the "other sheep.""
SusieB

Pasco, WA

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#26
Oct 31, 2012
 

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Why wrote:
<quoted text> I'm not trying to create conflicts in scripture! Jesus is highlighting the pluses of both groups and not setting up a negative comparison!
You cannot wipe out Matt 5,5 as if it doesn't exist. It is there and has to be understood expecially as it is a direct quote from psalms 37 on those who do get to live on a beautiful garden peace filled earth after Jehovah's day and the wicked destroyed.
There really aren't 2 groups though are there?

Ephesians 2 tells us [Christians] we are all to be in ONE BODY; Christ does not have two bodies does He?
I would think that over before answering, if Christ can have 2 bodies, then God can have 3...God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit =)
So as a BODY of believers, we Christians are all IN CHRIST...ONE BODY.

Ephesians 2:18 "through Him we have the approach to the Father."

John 10:1 "Most truly I say to you, he that does not enter into the sheepfold through the door but climbs up some other place, that one is a thief and a plunderer."

John 10:7,9 "I am the door of the sheep...whoever enters through ME will be saved"

John 10:16 "they wll become ONE FLOCK"...

Did you also see how verse 9 says "he will go in and out?"
What is 'he'[they] going in and out of? And why?

Your leaders are definitely leading you astray...they are trying to get you to believe you can enter into the Kingdom and have approach to God the Father by bypassing Jesus and going through them. That makes JW's thieves and plunderers.
And your leaders false prophets...
Why

Scarborough, UK

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#27
Oct 31, 2012
 

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Blue Danube wrote:
<quoted text>
Watchtower 1959 August 1 p.479 "When Jesus said, as recorded at Matthew 5:5, "Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth," of whom was he speaking?-H. S., U.S.A. Jesus here applied the expression "mild-tempered" or "meek" to his disciples of that time who were in line for the heavenly kingdom. He was the chief meek one among them and their example. Hebrews 1:1, 2 and 2:5, 6 show that Jesus inherits the earth or takes over the possession of it. His disciples were made his joint heirs in the Kingdom and enter into this inheritance or possession of the earth with him. Hence Matthew 5:5 does not strictly apply to the "other sheep.""
that is an old understanding note 60+ years ago
Why

Scarborough, UK

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#28
Oct 31, 2012
 

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SusieB wrote:
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There really aren't 2 groups though are there?
Ephesians 2 tells us [Christians] we are all to be in ONE BODY; Christ does not have two bodies does He?
I would think that over before answering, if Christ can have 2 bodies, then God can have 3...God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit =)
So as a BODY of believers, we Christians are all IN CHRIST...ONE BODY.
Ephesians 2:18 "through Him we have the approach to the Father."
John 10:1 "Most truly I say to you, he that does not enter into the sheepfold through the door but climbs up some other place, that one is a thief and a plunderer."
John 10:7,9 "I am the door of the sheep...whoever enters through ME will be saved"
John 10:16 "they wll become ONE FLOCK"...
Did you also see how verse 9 says "he will go in and out?"
What is 'he'[they] going in and out of? And why?
Your leaders are definitely leading you astray...they are trying to get you to believe you can enter into the Kingdom and have approach to God the Father by bypassing Jesus and going through them. That makes JW's thieves and plunderers.
And your leaders false prophets...
nasty slander aside! Again you are just try to explain away scripture! Scriptures do not cancel each other out, you have to find a harmonious explanation to cover all that is said.

We know the Jews were biblically taught to expect an earthly edenic life after their resurrection. We know a specific group 144,000 were chosen from among men to be "joint heirs" with Jesus ultimately kings and priests in heaven.

If you try and bypass all this prophecy you end up trying to put everyone in heaven ruling over what? A few pigs, cows and sheep on earth?
SusieB

Pasco, WA

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#29
Oct 31, 2012
 

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Why wrote:
<quoted text> that is an old understanding note 60+ years ago
Why do JW's always use that excuse...ITS OLD LIGHT?
Gods word never changes but JW's teach it as old and new light.

Where is/are the scripture[s] that say[s] you can change Gods teachings whenever it pleases you and kick people out of the congregation because of their disagreement with that?

Such a retardation of scripture!

Gods Word is not to be changed in any way!

Proverbs 30:6 "Add nothing to His words that He may not reprove you and that you may not have to be proved a liar."

Since: Jun 11

Perth, Australia

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#30
Oct 31, 2012
 

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Why wrote:
<quoted text> that is an old understanding note 60+ years ago
Hardly old light, more like interpreting the scriptures whichever way works according to their own beliefs as they feel inclined.

Watchtower 1974 June 15 pp.377-378
"...saying that the 'mild-tempered will inherit the earth.' Yes, those mild-tempered ones who are to be with Christ in his heavenly kingdom will rule over this earth."

Since: Jun 11

Perth, Australia

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#31
Oct 31, 2012
 

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Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1 p.1201 "The anointed members of the Christian congregation are spoken of as having a heavenly inheritance, sharing Jesus' inheritance as his "brothers." (Eph 1:14; Col 1:12; 1Pe 1:4, 5) This includes the earth.-Mt 5:5."
SusieB

Pasco, WA

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#32
Oct 31, 2012
 

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Why wrote:
<quoted text> nasty slander aside! Again you are just try to explain away scripture! Scriptures do not cancel each other out, you have to find a harmonious explanation to cover all that is said.
We know the Jews were biblically taught to expect an earthly edenic life after their resurrection. We know a specific group 144,000 were chosen from among men to be "joint heirs" with Jesus ultimately kings and priests in heaven.
If you try and bypass all this prophecy you end up trying to put everyone in heaven ruling over what? A few pigs, cows and sheep on earth?
Where did I ever say it was going to be in Heaven? Scripture says that 144,000 will be Kings and Priests and rule with Christ...scripture shows it could be either place or both!
I don't care where its from because its not determinate for my salvation to know. I just know that Jesus said it was Gods will for us to put our faith in HIM, the one God sent forth, Jesus Christ!

But there aren't 2 bodies...you should know that if you really read the bible.
1 Corinthians 12:25 "that there should be no division in the body" yet your leaders are dividing up the body into 2 groups. Just another lie being taught by your false leaders.
SusieB

Pasco, WA

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#33
Oct 31, 2012
 

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Blue Danube wrote:
<quoted text>
Hardly old light, more like interpreting the scriptures whichever way works according to their own beliefs as they feel inclined.
Watchtower 1974 June 15 pp.377-378
"...saying that the 'mild-tempered will inherit the earth.' Yes, those mild-tempered ones who are to be with Christ in his heavenly kingdom will rule over this earth."
Too many twisted scriptures keep them hanging on :(
Out of both sides of their mouths they spew different teachings.
One is "OLD LIGHT' and the other is "NEW LIGHT" lol. SAD!
SusieB

Pasco, WA

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#34
Oct 31, 2012
 
Why wrote:
<quoted text> nasty slander aside! Again you are just try to explain away scripture! Scriptures do not cancel each other out, you have to find a harmonious explanation to cover all that is said.
We know the Jews were biblically taught to expect an earthly edenic life after their resurrection. We know a specific group 144,000 were chosen from among men to be "joint heirs" with Jesus ultimately kings and priests in heaven.
If you try and bypass all this prophecy you end up trying to put everyone in heaven ruling over what? A few pigs, cows and sheep on earth?
Animals go to heaven?
NorthPeace

Camrose, Canada

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#35
Oct 31, 2012
 

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Why wrote:
<quoted text> the bible's usage of paradise/garden is very clear.
Jesus is king of paradise earth with the anointed, it belongs to him. One thing to consider that heaven is only offered to the anointed those who will be "kings and priests" alongside Jesus heirs with him in heaven.(Whether they will be able to visit paradise earth as our leaders the bible is silent on but I suspect they will because angels can and do biblically but this could allow for the "with me" that Jesus says as well).
His offering of paradise to the Jewish criminal is very specific and as a Jew the man would have known this was referring to the resurrection to an earthly restored Eden conditions. Why would Jesus offer something the man had a false understanding on? The restored earth to garden/Eden/paradise conditions is a specific bible promise not something that could be misconstrued. And Jesus knows he is referring to this promise when he talks to the criminal.
Jesus himself said "the meek shall inherit the earth"
We know the earth will be cleaned up we know "meek" will reside in peace forever upon it. We know we will have heavenly rulers, we know there will be a resurrection on it, we know there will be 1000 years of peace before a retesting of the resurrected.
Paradise the restored garden is only used in reference to earth biblically to join it to heaven is a leap of speculation not supported by scripture.
Not necessarily so. The word "paradise" as used in the Bible doesn't ALWAYS refer to a literal, physical garden. In Luke 23:43, where Jesus tells the criminal who is hanging beside him "you will be WITH ME in paradise", just WHERE do you think this paradise is LOCATED? Where was Jesus' DESTINATION after death? According to WTS beliefs, Jesus resides in HEAVEN - that's where he went after his earthly life was over to be installed as King.

So since Jesus was going back to heaven and he told the criminal you will be WITH ME - this is clear indication when Jesus used the word "paradise", he was referring to a HEAVENLY one.

The criminal was going to the same place as Jesus - Jesus told him so...

NorthPeace

“Bustin' Myths”

Since: Dec 09

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#36
Oct 31, 2012
 

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Why wrote:
<quoted text> that is an old understanding note 60+ years ago
Gotta love an Awake! education!

2012 - 1959 = How many years why?
apple

Singapore, Singapore

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#37
Oct 31, 2012
 
SusieB wrote:
<quoted text>
Animals go to heaven?
yes they do, jesus rides on horse.
SusieB

Pasco, WA

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#38
Oct 31, 2012
 
apple wrote:
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yes they do, jesus rides on horse.
Interesting...I have been told NO by so many different religions but I have always wondered...symbolic or real?
May I ask you something?
Jesus said He makes His spirits Angels...what is your understanding on this? Thank you :)

Since: Mar 09

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#39
Oct 31, 2012
 

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Paradise the restored garden is only used in reference to earth biblically to join it to heaven is a leap of speculation not supported by scripture.

I agree with this. I believe it often is discriptive or a condition. The term as regards an actual "place"...can only refer to the earth...where phsyical beings and objects,etc dwell. The dictionary describes it as "like a garden or park", which could not relate to Heaven where everyone and everything is invisible. The only way it could ever relate to the Heaven is as used to describe the perfect conditions that dwell there. The reason it can refer to the earth, is the fact the the "New Earth" will become perfect, or a Paradise.
apple

Singapore, Singapore

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#40
Oct 31, 2012
 
SusieB wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting...I have been told NO by so many different religions but I have always wondered...symbolic or real?
May I ask you something?
Jesus said He makes His spirits Angels...what is your understanding on this? Thank you :)
God does with his angels whatever he will. When he wishes he makes them sitting: sometimes he makes them standing: sometimes he makes them winds, sometimes fire. "The subjection of the angels is such that they must submit even to be changed into elements." "The angel said to Manoah,'I know not to the image of what I am made; for God changes us each hour: wherefore then dost thou ask my name? Sometimes he makes us fire, sometimes wind."' The emphasis, therefore, is not on the fact that the angels are merely servants, but that their being is such that they are only what God makes them according to the needs of their service, and are, therefore, changeable, in contrast with the Son, who is ruler and unchangeable. There would be no pertinency in the statement that God makes his angels spirits, which goes without saying. The Rabbis conceived the angels as perishable. One of them is cited as saying, "Day by day the angels of service are created out of the fire. stream, and sing a song, and disappear, as is said in Lamentations 3:23,'they are new every morning.'" For &#955;&#949;&#953; &#964;&#959;&#965; &#961;&#947;&#959; &#965;&#768;&#962; ministers, see on ministration, Luke 1:23, and see on ministered, Acts 13:2.

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