Jehovah's Witness Forum

“New one man.”

Since: Jan 11

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#626 Jan 17, 2013
eagleeye2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Screaming at Snorkler is not going to faze him, you can be sure.
Here you have lied once again. Nowhere have you ever shown that our literature said that "Armageddon would be here in 1975."
It is not in print, you have not shown it in print, you cannot show it in print. That is a lie that you have repeated over and over.
A THOUSAND-YEAR REBUILDING PERIOD
According to the Bible timetable, man’s history on earth has been nearly 6,000 years. Adam was created in 4026 B.C.E., which means that six thousand years of human history end about the fall of 1975 C.E. We are in the great 7,000-year rest day of God, starting at the time he rested after the creation of Adam and Eve. There are, therefore, a thousand years left to run. Without Satan and his demons to disturb mankind it will indeed be a restful time. It will be like a sabbath. In a way it will be a sabbath within a sabbath. The last thousand years of God’s great seven-thousand-year rest is a special sabbath over which the Son of man will be Lord.—Matt. 12:8.
Since Satan is to be loosed along with his demons for a “little while,” by the end of this sabbath millennium mankind will have to be considerably changed, so that Satan will be unable to influence them so easily to take the course of wickedness that past history records. They will have to be helped so that they are able to withstand the final test at the loosing of the Serpent and the demons. This work, therefore, is to be done during the thousand-year reign of Christ. During his rule righteousness will be in the earth and the people will be taught righteousness. Christ and his 144,000 associate kings and priests will minister to mankind and raise them up from the imperfect state in which desires of the flesh have such a hold upon them. They will be able to make over their personalities and arrive at physical perfection. But as we go on farther into the Revelation prophecy we get much more detail and enlightenment on this, for the blessings that God has in store for mankind when the Great Disturber is out of the way are greater than man by his own reasoning can conceive.—John 5:22, 28, 29; Acts 17:31; 2 Pet. 3:13; Eph. 4:22, 23.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#627 Jan 17, 2013
eagleeye2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Screaming at Snorkler is not going to faze him, you can be sure.
Here you have lied once again. Nowhere have you ever shown that our literature said that "Armageddon would be here in 1975."
It is not in print, you have not shown it in print, you cannot show it in print. That is a lie that you have repeated over and over.
.
.
. WHAT!!.did you have earplugs in at the assemblies.??. Hmmm! Did you not listen to the chronic rise in the speakers voise that was designed to wake the dead?? Well... insite one like a pep rally to stumble around like those who forgot to fill their lamps.??

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#628 Jan 17, 2013
MixedMedia wrote:
<quoted text>
And according to your faith they will just all die. Either way a judgement is being made because you have chosen to believe one of the many books of theology.
So in Karen's world they will burn in hell, in your world they will die.
You know according to how your God is portrayed in this book you deem holy and right, I find Karen's scenerio more likely. He doesn't seem like a very nice guy.
I understand your reasoning, and perhaps you can discuss your view that God is not a very nice guy with Karen or those that believe he would torture people eternally as punishment for whatever, since that's what they believe.

“New one man.”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#629 Jan 17, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand your reasoning, and perhaps you can discuss your view that God is not a very nice guy with Karen or those that believe he would torture people eternally as punishment for whatever, since that's what they believe.
Because you don't want to?
He is allowing the torture of mankind right now, has been for what 6000 yrs? All to prove a point you say.

“GOD IS LOVE”

Since: Aug 09

WE ARE ALL ONE

#630 Jan 17, 2013
Maravilla wrote:
<quoted text>.
.
. WHAT!!.did you have earplugs in at the assemblies.??. Hmmm! Did you not listen to the chronic rise in the speakers voise that was designed to wake the dead?? Well... insite one like a pep rally to stumble around like those who forgot to fill their lamps.??
Funny that you mentioned pep rallies as one of my daughters was chastised (spoken to; counselled) by a JW when she attended a pep rally during school hours. She was told she should not have been there as their purpose was to whip up emotions and heighten feelings against the "other team".

We never stopped (back then) to recognize that the WTS reps went to a great deal of planning and arranging to do what?....

to get their followers to attend one of THEIR pep rallies that also whipped up emotions,

to try and trick others into becoming converts to this cult,

to heighten feelings against others who do not worship as they do....

while constantly promoting hype for "the end"

and the anticipating the hideous destruction of countless numbers of fellow human beings as their "entertainment".

Looking back....it is plain to see that the high school pep rallies were a pleasant romp in the meadow as compared to the purpose of the real reasons that the WTS held all their "must attend" gatherings that did nothing but feed their flocks more toxic and tainted garbage to be gulped down.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#631 Jan 17, 2013
Nedoba wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny that you mentioned pep rallies as one of my daughters was chastised (spoken to; counselled) by a JW when she attended a pep rally during school hours. She was told she should not have been there as their purpose was to whip up emotions and heighten feelings against the "other team".
We never stopped (back then) to recognize that the WTS reps went to a great deal of planning and arranging to do what?....
to get their followers to attend one of THEIR pep rallies that also whipped up emotions,
to try and trick others into becoming converts to this cult,
to heighten feelings against others who do not worship as they do....
while constantly promoting hype for "the end"
and the anticipating the hideous destruction of countless numbers of fellow human beings as their "entertainment".
Looking back....it is plain to see that the high school pep rallies were a pleasant romp in the meadow as compared to the purpose of the real reasons that the WTS held all their "must attend" gatherings that did nothing but feed their flocks more toxic and tainted garbage to be gulped down.
.
. In all their teachings of what others did that we shouldn't be doing.. It never onces crossed there mind to apply it...themselves.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#632 Jan 17, 2013
MixedMedia wrote:
<quoted text>
Because you don't want to?
He is allowing the torture of mankind right now, has been for what 6000 yrs? All to prove a point you say.
As I say, since Karen believes God will continue possibly a far worse torture FOREVER AND EVER in some form of lake of fire :-), perhaps you need to discuss this issue with Karen and those who believe that God will burn alive people forever. Or cause them to suffer out of punishment forever. Perhaps Ihveit, "dee lightful," or Karen can help you to understand more about the personality of their god, why He threatens to burn people forever in fire or torture them forever if they don't "believe" in Him. After all, they (and you) are telling us that we're wrong, so why bother asking me? Ask them.
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#633 Jan 17, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand your reasoning, and perhaps you can discuss your view that God is not a very nice guy with Karen or those that believe he would torture people eternally as punishment for whatever, since that's what they believe.
As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die...(Ezekiel 33:11)
.
The Lord is...not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.(II Peter 3:9)
.
There is your answer miseracord all you have to is repent and stop follow the false teachers and false prophet.
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God doesn't send anyone for those that are punished are the ones who refuse to repent and so they sentence themselves.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#634 Jan 17, 2013
dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text>As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die...(Ezekiel 33:11)
.
The Lord is...not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.(II Peter 3:9)
.
There is your answer miseracord all you have to is repent and stop follow the false teachers and false prophet.
.
God doesn't send anyone for those that are punished are the ones who refuse to repent and so they sentence themselves.
Please try to tell that to MixedMedia, who thinks that God is cruel both now and in the future. Help her out and show her how Jehovah is not a god of mischief and ruination.:-) Show her how loving He is by allowing all these awful problems on the earth today, dee, and how loving he is when religious people such as yourself and quite a few others will say who knows how many will burn in hellFIRE while they experience agony beyond your wildest dreams because they did not accept your god.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#635 Jan 17, 2013
MixedMedia, I hope you got your answer that you were looking for from those who believe in hellfire and eternal conscious torment of those who do not either believe in a trinity or god their way.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#636 Jan 17, 2013
The Real Karen wrote:
<quoted text>
Have I ever once said that I believe in a burning hell? Why do you and your JW friends always have to twist my words? I said, I believe that it is a eternal separation from God. But you know, NONE of us know what hell is really like, ONLY one man knew for sure, and that man was Jesus Christ. Go read what he had to say about it.
Let me get this clear, TRK. You did say if the Bible says something, you believe it, didn't you? So when you "read" about the rich man in hades, was he comfortable and cool there? Was he talking to "father Abraham"? And do you now think that the "Lake of Fire" isn't really a "lake of fire," but those tormented in the lake of fire are simply standing there (or lying or sitting on chairs there) and thinking of their past actions, etc., in this separated state? After all, YOU said if the Bible says it, you believe it. So now you're saying that the Lake of Fire is, um, eternal separation? Is that what the BIBLE SAYS??

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#637 Jan 17, 2013
The Real Karen wrote:
<quoted text>
Have I ever once said that I believe in a burning hell? Why do you and your JW friends always have to twist my words? I said, I believe that it is a eternal separation from God. But you know, NONE of us know what hell is really like, ONLY one man knew for sure, and that man was Jesus Christ. Go read what he had to say about it.
I read what he says. I know he will not torture anyone as you would have it. You say it means torment because that's what the BIBLE SAYS, but yet you must not think they're being TORMENTED in a real LAKE OF FIRE, TRK. Furthermore, some people say they know what hell is like, so you cannot speak for others when you say "NONE of us know what hell is really like." Some people say they know what hell is like. So what makes you the expert? Because you believe the Bible really doesn't mean they will be tormented day and night in a Lake of Fire literally? Also, all those people that may be very good people, and who never had a chance to hear the matter through like you are doing, such as Buddhists, Hindus, and so forth, children under the tutelage of adults, now you imply that is what God will do -- keep them in a "separated state" forever, whatever you think or imagine that separated state to be as described by yourself as being separated, and not tormented in a literal Lake of Fire. After all, you said who knows, so could be in your mind God will bring them with you to heaven.

“Wa-chew-ka - ChiricahuaApache”

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#638 Jan 18, 2013
I have received a special video that I could not wait until my next email to share with you. It is a farewell presentation at the "Safeguard Your Heart" District Convention where they had International delegates from USA, Indonesia, Australia & Papua New Guinea .

http://dwsilver.com/nz-farewell.html

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#640 Jan 18, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
As I say, since Karen believes God will continue possibly a far worse torture FOREVER AND EVER in some form of lake of fire :-), perhaps you need to discuss this issue with Karen and those who believe that God will burn alive people forever. Or cause them to suffer out of punishment forever. Perhaps Ihveit, "dee lightful," or Karen can help you to understand more about the personality of their god, why He threatens to burn people forever in fire or torture them forever if they don't "believe" in Him. After all, they (and you) are telling us that we're wrong, so why bother asking me? Ask them.
Again you are lying on me, when is it ever going to stop. YOU know I have told you time and time again that I believe it will be a eternal separation from God. Do I believe in the Lake of Fire, you bet I do, it is meant for Satan and his followers. Do I believe what the bible says, you bet I do. Do I believe there is a burning hell, I have no idea, I don't know anyone who has died and come back from it. You God is the one who YOU say is going to destroy millions of people who are living moral, clean, God fearing lives just because they are not JW's. Now what kind of God is that?

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#641 Jan 18, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me get this clear, TRK. You did say if the Bible says something, you believe it, didn't you? So when you "read" about the rich man in hades, was he comfortable and cool there? Was he talking to "father Abraham"? And do you now think that the "Lake of Fire" isn't really a "lake of fire," but those tormented in the lake of fire are simply standing there (or lying or sitting on chairs there) and thinking of their past actions, etc., in this separated state? After all, YOU said if the Bible says it, you believe it. So now you're saying that the Lake of Fire is, um, eternal separation? Is that what the BIBLE SAYS??
I believe I answers you in the comment before this one.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#642 Jan 18, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
I read what he says. I know he will not torture anyone as you would have it. You say it means torment because that's what the BIBLE SAYS, but yet you must not think they're being TORMENTED in a real LAKE OF FIRE, TRK. Furthermore, some people say they know what hell is like, so you cannot speak for others when you say "NONE of us know what hell is really like." Some people say they know what hell is like. So what makes you the expert? Because you believe the Bible really doesn't mean they will be tormented day and night in a Lake of Fire literally? Also, all those people that may be very good people, and who never had a chance to hear the matter through like you are doing, such as Buddhists, Hindus, and so forth, children under the tutelage of adults, now you imply that is what God will do -- keep them in a "separated state" forever, whatever you think or imagine that separated state to be as described by yourself as being separated, and not tormented in a literal Lake of Fire. After all, you said who knows, so could be in your mind God will bring them with you to heaven.
Do you have proof of what it is going to be for those who refuse to give their lives to the LORD? Of course you don't, all you have is what you are believing from men. All I have is the information I have gotten from the bible.

Now about this God tormenting people thing, Your God, is going to kill millions upon millions of people because they are not a JW. How is that being a loving God when these people have turned their lives over to him? How is being a Baptist in faith going to cause me to be destroyed, when I live by the bible, I believe in Jesus, I try my best to be kind to those I meet, I go to church almost every time the doors open. Why would a loving God kill me just because I am not a JW? I have never found a scripture that tells me I must be a JW or that I even must be part of an organization. If its there please show me. You and other JWs claim that you are trying to help save others, but not one of you have ever shown me that scripture. I think John 3:16 says it best when it says that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES in HIM (JESUS CHRIST) will gain eternal life. That would ahve been the perfect place for him to have said, ALL JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES will be saved. But it says WHOSOEVER, that means ANY ONE WHO BELIEVES IN HIS SON. What about that scripture don't you get?

I am not going to hell so my focus is not on that, my focus is on being in Heaven with Jesus. Who knows what he has in store for us after that?

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#643 Jan 18, 2013
The Real Karen wrote:
<quoted text>
Again you are lying on me, when is it ever going to stop. YOU know I have told you time and time again that I believe it will be a eternal separation from God. Do I believe in the Lake of Fire, you bet I do, it is meant for Satan and his followers. Do I believe what the bible says, you bet I do. Do I believe there is a burning hell, I have no idea, I don't know anyone who has died and come back from it. You God is the one who YOU say is going to destroy millions of people who are living moral, clean, God fearing lives just because they are not JW's. Now what kind of God is that?
I never said that God will destroy millions of lives because they are not JW's, you believe that it is immediate going to whatever hell you believe in, or heaven, don't you? I do not believe the scriptures say that one goes immediately to heaven or its opposite (eternal torment in whatever torment you think it means). and again, i ask you if you have formulated any belief from the scriptures about those who simply had no exposure to the saving power of Jesus Christ throughout the almost 2,000 years since Jesus Christ's death and resurrection and preaching about it? I suppose Baptists have figured out what happens to those who died prior to Jesus Christ's appearance on the earth, whether they're in heaven, hell, purgatory.

Before I even touch on how many lives were snuffed out during the flood of Noah's time, don't kid yourself, TRK, don't you believe now that the rich man in Hades, or hell, was alive and physically suffering there, asking for a drop of water to cool his "parched tongue"? Don't you believe that part of it? What does the BIBLE say about it, and no less than Jesus himself said it, now look and tell us if you believe Jesus spoke the literal truth about what the rich man was suffering.

Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

See? Notice he said he was TORMENTED IN THIS FLAME. Are you saying now that is not quite true, or you don't know what happens there? That he was not in a flame and being tormented? Take a deep breath. Ask your pastor what he thinks.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#644 Jan 18, 2013
The Real Karen wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you have proof of what it is going to be for those who refuse to give their lives to the LORD? Of course you don't, all you have is what you are believing from men. All I have is the information I have gotten from the bible.
Now about this God tormenting people thing, Your God, is going to kill millions upon millions of people because they are not a JW. How is that being a loving God when these people have turned their lives over to him? How is being a Baptist in faith going to cause me to be destroyed, when I live by the bible, I believe in Jesus, I try my best to be kind to those I meet, I go to church almost every time the doors open. Why would a loving God kill me just because I am not a JW?
Never said He would. You are the one telling Nomi and others by default to watch out for that final destruction, aren't you.
The Real Karen wrote:
<quoted text>
I have never found a scripture that tells me I must be a JW or that I even must be part of an organization. If its there please show me.
Please keep showing me the scriptures about whatever hell and torment you believe in for those who do not worship God in the way you believe the Bible says. It is a prevailing belief now among men that the torment is more of a mental torture, not physical. But, um, my dear -- that is not what JESUS said regarding the rich man in Hades, did he. So while you're at it, perhaps you could give us a little inkling as to what you believe now about whether it was an illustration, or whether that rich man was really being tormented by that FLAME???

Luke 16:24 "And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame."

(Use your own thinking, Karen, just like you tell us to do.)
The Real Karen wrote:
<quoted text>
You and other JWs claim that you are trying to help save others, but not one of you have ever shown me that scripture. I think John 3:16 says it best when it says that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES in HIM (JESUS CHRIST) will gain eternal life. That would ahve been the perfect place for him to have said, ALL JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES will be saved. But it says WHOSOEVER, that means ANY ONE WHO BELIEVES IN HIS SON. What about that scripture don't you get?
If I tell you that I believe in Jesus Christ, will you believe me? You want me to believe you, don't you, even though you are now being not just inconsistent, but contradictory in your views regarding the words of Jesus. So explain how it is that the rich was being tormented in the flame Jesus told about. You say you don't "listen to men," but have decided that Southern Baptists are the place for you right now. Stay with them, that's your choice, I certainly am not telling you to leave them, or that you'll be destroyed because you want to stay with them. But there are other religions, too, that all claim belief in Jesus, including the Seventh-Day Adventists, Independent Baptists, Freewill Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Church of God. Somehow there are differences, and surely men have a handle in these differences of theology regarding each church. So why not become a Catholic, or a Methodist, if you're not "listening to men." Will you believe that I am "saved" and so won't suffer eternally in some conscious state of torture, physical or mental if I tell you that I believe and have faith in Jesus? Either you know or you don't know. Smiles and being nice just won't cut the grade with Jesus, although in general people react nicely to those who speak pleasantly and smile.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#645 Jan 18, 2013
I know that the story of Lazarus and the rich man was a parable. But the bible says in Revelation these things...

Revelation 20:10
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Revelation 20:15
And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:14
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Now, you tell me, is the bible lying?

Maybe Jesus parable was to wake us up?

I am not going to go over and over this with you, You know how I believe about this, you have been told often enough. The difference between you and I is that you will believe what MEN tell you to believe, I believe what the bible tells me.

You may not have said that millions will die because they are not witnesses, but thats exactly what your religion teaches and believes.

No I do not believe that God will destroy those who have had no chance to learn about him, but thats almost non existent anymore with the internet, and missionaries reaching people all over the world and in very remote places.

I am not going to go over and over this with you, You know how I believe about this, you have been told often enough. The difference between you and I is that you will believe what MEN tell you to believe, I believe what the bible tells me.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#646 Jan 18, 2013
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
Never said He would. You are the one telling Nomi and others by default to watch out for that final destruction, aren't you.
<quoted text>
Please keep showing me the scriptures about whatever hell and torment you believe in for those who do not worship God in the way you believe the Bible says. It is a prevailing belief now among men that the torment is more of a mental torture, not physical. But, um, my dear -- that is not what JESUS said regarding the rich man in Hades, did he. So while you're at it, perhaps you could give us a little inkling as to what you believe now about whether it was an illustration, or whether that rich man was really being tormented by that FLAME???
Luke 16:24 "And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame."
(Use your own thinking, Karen, just like you tell us to do.)
<quoted text>
If I tell you that I believe in Jesus Christ, will you believe me? You want me to believe you, don't you, even though you are now being not just inconsistent, but contradictory in your views regarding the words of Jesus. So explain how it is that the rich was being tormented in the flame Jesus told about. You say you don't "listen to men," but have decided that Southern Baptists are the place for you right now. Stay with them, that's your choice, I certainly am not telling you to leave them, or that you'll be destroyed because you want to stay with them. But there are other religions, too, that all claim belief in Jesus, including the Seventh-Day Adventists, Independent Baptists, Freewill Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Church of God. Somehow there are differences, and surely men have a handle in these differences of theology regarding each church. So why not become a Catholic, or a Methodist, if you're not "listening to men." Will you believe that I am "saved" and so won't suffer eternally in some conscious state of torture, physical or mental if I tell you that I believe and have faith in Jesus? Either you know or you don't know. Smiles and being nice just won't cut the grade with Jesus, although in general people react nicely to those who speak pleasantly and smile.
I am not telling anyone anything that the bible does not say.

All those religions you have mentioned will not save anyone, but what will save them that MOST of them have in common is the TRUE BELIEF in JESUS CHRIST. No religion, no organization is going to save you, not one single one. Why am I a Southern Baptist? Its not because I believe they are going to save me, but because it is where I felt the most comfortable. Bro Johnny our Pastor is not going to save me, the Deacons are not going to save me, the Members are not going to save me, but JESUS is going to save me, because I Believe in the REAL JESUS, and I dedicated my life to him not to any organization.

If you truly believe in JESUS and you have ask him to forgive you for all your sins, and you have dedicated your life to him and not to a religion or organization, then I would say you will be saved, but that is not my decision it is Jesus Christ decision. Just as you believe you MUST go door to door to help people be saved, I believe I must tell you about the REAL JESUS. He is not an angel, but he is the SON OF GOD. The SON that God sent to earth to die for all of us so that we could be saved. He is the Word that was with God in the beginning. When he died for our sins, he did not just dissolve into a million pieces and float away. HE rose again so that we could also have that hope.

I believe the WORDS of the BIBLE, I don't believe the words of MEN. I don't read countless books and magazines printed by the Southern Baptist convention to tell me what I have to believe. What you decide to do is up to you, but as for me, I will follow the bible and the Lord.

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