JW sets Record at Losing Members

Since: Sep 11

Brantford, Canada

#52 Nov 2, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
You are talking rubbish.
No one is threatened not to go to the police. Elders tell the affected families that it is their absolute right to report it to the police.
Liar

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#53 Nov 2, 2012
Stingo wrote:
<quoted text>
Liar
Here is a quote from the elder's manual. This is the instructions given to ever elder:

== Quote: Shepherd the Flock of God - Ellder's Manual ==

19. Child abuse is a crime. Never suggest to anyone that they should not report an allegation of child abuse to the police or other authorities. If you are asked, make it clear that whether to report the matter to the authorities or not is a personal decision for each individual to make and that there are no congregation sanctions for either decision. Elders will not criticize anyone who reports such an allegation to the authorities. If the victim wishes to make a report, it is his or her absolute right to do so.- Gal 6:5

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#54 Nov 2, 2012
As we can see, posters like Stigo and ihveit care about spreading negative propaganda, rather than truth.

It makes it hard to believe anything that comes out of the mouths of these anti-JW fanatics.
MAMMON

United States

#55 Nov 2, 2012
This is a different situation but when I was injured while working for a brother and lost some fingers they flat out told me I was not allowed to sue my brother. If you're not allowed to sue then what's the difference in bringing criminal charges against your brother? Isn't the cult screaming Conti just did it for the money? Just because the elders are told not to suggest not going to the police doesnt mean they don't leave you with the impression you shouldn't. They don't suggest to not go to college either but we all know how those that want to are treated.

Any and all cases should be reported to the authorities and there should be no suggesting anything, it should be done. If someones child out in service was molested do you not think the elders would call the police? If a teacher at school molested them would they ask for more proof other than the child's before calling the cops?

Those that defend a pedophile is no better than the offender. POS.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#56 Nov 2, 2012
MAMMON wrote:
This is a different situation but when I was injured while working for a brother and lost some fingers they flat out told me I was not allowed to sue my brother. If you're not allowed to sue then what's the difference in bringing criminal charges against your brother? Isn't the cult screaming Conti just did it for the money? Just because the elders are told not to suggest not going to the police doesnt mean they don't leave you with the impression you shouldn't. They don't suggest to not go to college either but we all know how those that want to are treated.
Any and all cases should be reported to the authorities and there should be no suggesting anything, it should be done. If someones child out in service was molested do you not think the elders would call the police? If a teacher at school molested them would they ask for more proof other than the child's before calling the cops?
Those that defend a pedophile is no better than the offender. POS.
Basically the victim chose not to call the police, the victim's family chose not to call the police and you decide to blame the elders for the police not being called.

Clearly you are just using the victim to further your own anti-JW religious agenda.

Frankly, using abuse victims that way is a form of abuse in itself.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#57 Nov 2, 2012
MAMMON wrote:
This is a different situation but when I was injured while working for a brother and lost some fingers they flat out told me I was not allowed to sue my brother. If you're not allowed to sue then what's the difference in bringing criminal charges against your brother? Isn't the cult screaming Conti just did it for the money? Just because the elders are told not to suggest not going to the police doesnt mean they don't leave you with the impression you shouldn't. They don't suggest to not go to college either but we all know how those that want to are treated.
Any and all cases should be reported to the authorities and there should be no suggesting anything, it should be done. If someones child out in service was molested do you not think the elders would call the police? If a teacher at school molested them would they ask for more proof other than the child's before calling the cops?
Those that defend a pedophile is no better than the offender. POS.
It should be noted that Victim Support Groups for rape victims leave it entirely up to the victim to decide whether or not to report the crime to the police. They recognize that it is the victim who should make that decision.

== Quote: 911rape.org ==

http://www.911rape.org/help-a-friend

Encourage your friend to make her or his own decisions and choices. This is one way for a sexual assault victim to regain a sense of personal power and control. For example, let your friend decide if she or he wants to notify the police or contact a rape crisis center.

Since: Sep 09

Location hidden

#58 Nov 3, 2012
Nedoba wrote:
<quoted text>
The WTS has always had a morbid fascination with the subjects of demons and Jehovah's Witnesses (JW) have developed tremendous fear of demons and Satan. Russell used to write about spirit manifestations.(e.g. Zion's Watch Tower 1907 October l p. 4069, WTS reprints)
Recent Watchtower publications also have warnings and instructions on how to deal with demons and demonized objects, shunning omens and "voices", rejecting modern "demonized" music, resisting wicked spirits, etc.(The Watchtower 1974 June 1 p.328; 1983 October 15 pp. 11-15; 1963 March 15 pp. 186-190)
Jerry Bergman in his book Jehovah's Witnesses and the Problem of Mental Health (1992) relates case histories showing how the WTS is seriously demon-oriented.
There have been numerous cases where a JW was perceived by the WTS elders to be demon-possessed. The elders then frequently take charge of the unfortunate situation and enter the house of the "possessed" JW and systematically start to destroy by burning whatever objects which they think are devil-related! This Shamanistic practice would result in the destruction of crosses, rosaries, pictures, books, heirlooms and even items like blankets, furniture and clothing if acquired from someone considered by the elders to be in league with Satan!
Havor Montague in his article, The Pessimistic Sect's Influence on Mental Health: The case of Jehovah's Witnesses states, that he "has worked with many cases where the suggestion of "demon influence" has been the factor that has caused the neurotic witness to become a complete psychotic." (p. 144)
http://users.adam.com.au/bstett/JwGreber24.ht...
http://www.towertotruth.net/spiritMediums.htm
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19029185/The-Watcht...
http://users.adam.com.au/bstett/JEHOVAHSWITNE...
Jerry Bergman.. aka.. Havor Montague have been shown to be fake. He has no credentials to be knowledgeable about anything. Funny that you would try and pass him off as an expert. He's an expert at lies.

“Bustin' Myths”

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#60 Nov 3, 2012
Micky Mouse wrote:
<quoted text>You post things like that...and you expect me or anyone to believe that you are an unbaptized publisher? I never had access to that kind of information until a very close friend who was an Elder during some critical Legal Battles with the Society leaked them to me and certainly not before I was baptized so if you are not a WT operative?.....I'll eat out of my Dog's bowl for a week! And she eats better than me most of the time so that's no great sacrifice...but point made!
Gareth no doubt went to an "apostate" site and obtained the elder's manual the way most non jws got it.(I have it and I have never been a jw). So, not only is he not baptized, he relies on "apostates" to keep him in the loop on what is happening in the jw world that he refuses to become a part of.
Tao itness

United States

#61 Nov 3, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
You are talking rubbish.
No one is threatened not to go to the police. Elders tell the affected families that it is their absolute right to report it to the police.
THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE LIE! If they are doing this now it is a reaction to their current situation and self preservation,NOT to protect the innocent or a love for righteousness. Groing up as a JW ,the prevailing attitude was to not bring reproach on Jehovah by going to 'worldly' authorities.In reality this is about protecting their image as 'Gods clean people' and in spiritual paradise. I know personally of two cases in which the victim was thretened with reproof and possible expulsion if the charges were repeated to anyone. The leadership of the Watchtower has the same attitude as the wicked pharsies- to protect their reputation and image they want to portray. They do this without regard to innocent victims-even ruining the lives of those that dare bring up reality. They use every technique high control cults use to control the minds of their followers.As I said ,if they are encouring victims to go to the authrities ,it is clearly a reaction to current realities for the act of self preservation-NOT for any concern for victims or a love of justice-no matter how much you delude yourself.
Tao itness

United States

#63 Nov 3, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
As we can see, posters like Stigo and ihveit care about spreading negative propaganda, rather than truth.
It makes it hard to believe anything that comes out of the mouths of these anti-JW fanatics.
To paint all that disagree with the Watchtower as Anti-JW fanatics,shows youre lack of reasonableness and the willingness to defend this organisation at any cost. Like them,you beleive they can do no wrong. LIke all high control cults,the ledership attempts to paint themselves as saviour and god-like.
Tao itness

United States

#64 Nov 3, 2012
Micky Mouse wrote:
<quoted text>After 30 years myself and specific dealings with cases and legal issues, I have seen lives and families devastated and people die and go to prison and disfellowshipped, incredible pain and suffering doled out all in the legal and fiscal and image/PR interests of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. All of which would have been avoided if Bible principles would have been applied and supported by the Society to begin with as they contend that they do so I couldn't have said it better!
if they would take just one scripture and apply it . They could have avoided this and many other problems-"Openly confess youre sins to one another."Imagine if any religion applied this! No one would feel superior to another. Even pedeophiles would show their abandoning their deviant ways,but at the same time all would be protected from any type predator since all would be aware of these peoples tendancy. Religous leaders would not be able to appear more righteous than any one else.Any sin would be avoided as much as humanly possible.jWs are severely disfunctional. They attempt to appear less sinful than the next guy. This means living double lives,deceit,selfrighteousness ,mental illness-just to mention a few-and this is just one scripture!
MAMMON

United States

#65 Nov 3, 2012
So its up to the victim to call the police? Even if the victim is a minor and their parents are under the influence that God doesn't want them too? If a brother showed up to the hall and had a very contagious disease that could easily be spread to everyone but he is embarrassed and doesn't want people to know, would the elders go ahead and warn people or just keep it silent?

My girlfriends kid started kindergarten this year and the school sent home a letter that one of the kids had head lice. It wasn't her kid because we asked the teacher and she said no, the kids parents were called but they were required to let the other parents know so they could keep an eye out and make sure their child didn't catch it from them. I guess a pedophile isn't as dangerous as head lice. I learn something new everyday.

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#66 Nov 4, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is a quote from the elder's manual. This is the instructions given to ever elder:
== Quote: Shepherd the Flock of God - Ellder's Manual ==
19. Child abuse is a crime. Never suggest to anyone that they should not report an allegation of child abuse to the police or other authorities. If you are asked, make it clear that whether to report the matter to the authorities or not is a personal decision for each individual to make and that there are no congregation sanctions for either decision. Elders will not criticize anyone who reports such an allegation to the authorities. If the victim wishes to make a report, it is his or her absolute right to do so.- Gal 6:5
ihv WHAT THE HECK are you doing with a secret elders manual? maybe you could be dfed for having it?

anyhow whats written in that piece of garbage and what happens realtime is far different... they wrote that to protect their arse..

but tell you what.. why dont you go speak to a few of theose who were molested by jws and find out the real truth instead of trying ot protect them
will

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#67 Nov 4, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
As we can see, posters like Stigo and ihveit care about spreading negative propaganda, rather than truth.
It makes it hard to believe anything that comes out of the mouths of these anti-JW fanatics.
i know the truth dude.. li dont protrect pediophiles NO MATTER what religion including catholics by the way..

if you dont know about this is because your head is so far up the local elders behinds you couldnt find the truth if it bit you on the behind.... then you would deny it..

i bet if i posted something about a pediophile priest you and your mineons here would be all over it for montsh

being blind you dont realize this goes on in all religons. andd youre isnt exclusive.... but the coverup has been revealed.. and maybe this is why the society is going broke secretly settling the issues withoug going to court

you will ahve to decide.. I ALREADY KNOW
will

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#68 Nov 4, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Basically the victim chose not to call the police, the victim's family chose not to call the police and you decide to blame the elders for the police not being called.
Clearly you are just using the victim to further your own anti-JW religious agenda.
Frankly, using abuse victims that way is a form of abuse in itself.
IHV IF AN ELDER KNEW ABOUT IT and didnt report it himself .. HE IS JUST AS COMPLICT AS IF HE HAD BEEN A PART OF THE CRIME...

one thing of sure if i had a family member who was molested by a jw and i found out the elders covered it up, i am sure i would convince them TO NEVER DO IT AGAIN.. they would certainly be wanting to call the police then.. and maybe an ambulance
will
jace

Woodbridge, VA

#69 Nov 4, 2012
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
IHV IF AN ELDER KNEW ABOUT IT and didnt report it himself .. HE IS JUST AS COMPLICT AS IF HE HAD BEEN A PART OF THE CRIME...
THE JW mindset is unable to grasp this point

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#70 Nov 4, 2012
jace wrote:
<quoted text>
THE JW mindset is unable to grasp this point
yep as you pay for wt mags and read them 4 times a week, your brain eventually gets fried and you believe anything the wt says.. like this quote from them admits:
1955 QUALIFIED TO BE MINISTERS
"If we have love for Jehovah and for the organization of his people we shall not be suspicious, but shall, as the Bible says,'believe all things' all the things that the Watchtower brings out."

and they manipulate that perfectly and arent they adding ot gods word by placing themselved smack dab in the middle of it?
will

“Tight lines”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#71 Nov 5, 2012
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
IHV IF AN ELDER KNEW ABOUT IT and didnt report it himself .. HE IS JUST AS COMPLICT AS IF HE HAD BEEN A PART OF THE CRIME...
If the Elder was informed of this in confidence, the clergy privlage actually forbids reporting this to the police.
I am not saying it is right but, that is the way it is.
The Elder SHOULD convince the victim (assuming a minor) to go to her parents and let the parents contact the police.
Jace

Springfield, NJ

#72 Nov 5, 2012
ihveit wrote:
<quoted text>
yep as you pay for wt mags and read them 4 times a week, your brain eventually gets fried and you believe anything the wt says.. like this quote from them admits:
1955 QUALIFIED TO BE MINISTERS
"If we have love for Jehovah and for the organization of his people we shall not be suspicious, but shall, as the Bible says,'believe all things' all the things that the Watchtower brings out."
and they manipulate that perfectly and arent they adding ot gods word by placing themselved smack dab in the middle of it?
will
They place themselves in the seat of God the almighty

And we like them accepted it. Nothing like seeing the truth

“email at [email protected]

Since: Dec 07

central louisiana

#73 Nov 5, 2012
florida native wrote:
<quoted text>
If the Elder was informed of this in confidence, the clergy privlage actually forbids reporting this to the police.
I am not saying it is right but, that is the way it is.
The Elder SHOULD convince the victim (assuming a minor) to go to her parents and let the parents contact the police.
ihv sorry but i dont belleve elders come unter the protection of that stupid rule...

and i doubt very seriously that the perp went and told the elder about the crime...

IF THE VICTIM GOES TO THE ELDER he is obligated to report the crime... THERE IS A DIFFERENCE the victim was not speaking on confidence as it appears yuo are insinuating...

YOU CANT CONFESS SOMEONE ELSES SINS... only the perp would even come close to fitting into this stupid rule... and i only know of one other religion who uses this.

if my child went to an elder and told him she/he had been moslested and he did nothing about it YOU CAN BE SURE I BETTER NEVER FIND OUT..
will

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