romans 8 is applying to each faithfu...

romans 8 is applying to each faithful believer

Posted in the Jehovah's Witness Forum



#1 Jun 10, 2010
Jehovah's Witness Forum - Topix


Even Romans 8:4 is applying to all those who have been justified in Christ. Jeremiah 31:33-34 has been fulfilled here, a “New Covenant,(A New Testament). Romans 8:4, is making the point that God’s people (those who are in the new Covenant) are no longer guided by the Old Law, but by the Spirit. What slave in history or in the bible ever called his or her master,‘Father?’

Galatians 2:16 (NIV) know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned."[a] 8In other words, it is 'not' the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

In other words, of all the religions of the earth, only Christians, would put faith in His promised Seed.

11Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God's purpose in "election" might stand: 12not by works but by him who calls—she was told, "The older will serve the younger."[

In other words, the 'elect' of God are those He foreknew would receive His Son would answer His call to repent,(1 Jn. 2:15, Jn. 1:12,13). Jesus said, "I have not come to call the righteous, but the unrighteous.
All who repent and receive Jesus Christ, belong to him and are therefore, led ‘by’ His Spirit. If we are not, we are not His sons (and daughters).- John 1:12.13

Galatians 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?

1 John 4:15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God

1John 4:4

John 1:12, 13 (OKJ)

Are 99% of Watchtower followers led by the Spirit of God? What does the bible have to say about someone who denies they are sons of His? Could they be led by the Spirit of God? Do we have clear passages on this?


Galatians 5:18 (OKJ) But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Romans 8:14, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

Who Do You See Whenever You Happen To Look Into a Mirror?

Perhaps someone has caused you to forget who you are.- Hebrews 12:5-8

Ephesians 1:13, And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Colossians 2:6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him,

The reason Christ is revealed to us in Romans 8:4 is because it is here, that He shows us He has taken away the curse of not being able to obey all the Laws given to us, in the Old Covenant. Christ took away that curse by His redeeming blood. In other words, His blood sanctified, not just 144,000 people, but All who would repent and receive this gift that was offered to all who would put faith in the Son of God,(Titus 3:5).

Acts 20:32, Now I commit you to God and to the word of his grace, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified by faith in me.


#2 Jun 10, 2010
Hebrews 13:12, And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make "the people" holy, through his own blood.

Hebrews 10:10,(‘all, not just 144000’) And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all -(Romans 3:22).

Acts 26:18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that “they” may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

Nicodemus had a faith problem that night. He thought he was in the 'truth,' "You see." He was in denial,(Romans 5:1).

1 John 2:28 And now, dear children, continue 'in him,' so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming. 29 "IF" you know that he is righteous, you "know" that “everyone” who does what is right has been 'born of him.'

1 Jn. 3:7Dear children, do not let 'anyone' lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

Those who put faith in this redeeming blood and do not keep their sins hidden, remain sanctified,(1 John 1:9). In this condition His Spirit dwells in us,“each” obedient believer.

1 John 4:15 If 'anyone' acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God

Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Who are at piece with God now, only 144000? Is the Christian congregation at peace with God, or only 144000?

The WT goes beyond what is written, they teach,“Only Jehovah knows.”

The Apostle John had more faith in us than does the WT. 1 Jn. 3:7 Dear children, do not let 'anyone' lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous


Romans 5:9 Since we “have” now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!

He Sups with ‘each’ believer, not just 1444,000 people. BUT,“HAVE YOU EVER STOPED LONG ENOUGH TO ..“ASK HIM IN?”

Revelation 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If “anyone” hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.

Romans 8:4, furthers our understanding about those who have repented and ‘believed’(that is,‘received, as per John 1:12, 13.) Christ are to partake of him during the Communion of the Lord’s Supper. These are children,(sons and daughters) of God.


(Galatians 3:9) So those who have faith…“are”...blessed along ‘with’ Abraham, the man of faith.( Romans 3:22, Romans 10:9, 10).



#3 Jun 10, 2010
Galatians 3:26 You are ‘all’ sons of God ‘through faith’ in Christ Jesus, 27 for ‘all’ of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you “belong” to Christ, then you ‘are’ Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

WHY? Well if Christ bought us off the block,(of Sin) then what he bought belongs to him.”- Romans 9:5. Those who don’t belong to him are still in Adam and not in Christ. How is he to give every thing back to God in the end, if what he paid for don't belong to him?


Romans 3:22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to ‘all’ who believe. There is no difference,(1 Cor. 11:17-19, John 15:1-6 ;17:17-22, Jn. 6:53-56.) 1 Corinthians 10:, 1Cor. 10:1-4,(‘all,’16-18), Exodus 12:47).

Is Each Believer In the Congregation a son of God? How Can We Be Certain?

Romans 8:14, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

Romans 8:4, helps us to understand that: All Christians who have repented and received Christ,('being they are not natural born believing Jews,' they would be considered ('spiritual') Jews' and 'grafted in ('spiritually speaking') with the remnant of the believing Jews. Therefore the believing Gentiles,are graphted in as part of,)the Seed of Abraham.

Romans 9-10 exp that not all Israel are Israel. In other words,(in the eyes of God)only the faithful Jew is considered 'Israel.' Even through it says, "All Israel will be saved," Does not mean every Jew will be saved. It means only the believing Jews will be saved.

Each obedient believer is in (union with) Christ through simple faith in him, Romans 5:1, Rev. 3:20,(Haven't you invited him in yet 2 Corinthians 13:5)?...90% of the Jews haven't.

How Many Lovers of God Have Had This Mystery Hidden From Them?
...(At least 144000).
Colossians 1:27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ ‘in you,’ the hope of glory. 28 We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present ‘everyone’ perfect ‘in’ Christ.




#4 Jun 10, 2010
Garth and Nomi,'In the strict biblical sense,' are not in the Christian faith...('They do say the Spirit of Jesus Christ is not in them.") Are 99% of WT followers,'of the faith?'

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?

If the Apostle Paul were alive and teaching today, would the WT leaders cause him pain, if he heard that the WT was teaching that God only wanted 144000 people to have the Spirit of His Son in them, and that only 144000 people were in the N.C.,(New Testament)?

Galatians 4:19, My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of child birth until Christ is formed in you,

Jeremiah31:31"The time is coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them, " declares the LORD.

Is He not the husband of the Christian congregation today???

33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in "their" minds and write it on "their" hearts. I will be "their" God, and “they” will be "my people." 34."For I will forgive “their” wickedness and will remember "their" sins no more." (Emphases mine).

He is talking about 'His' people. What part of your congregation can not say, they are not His people???

Have Your Sins been forgiven? If They Have, Then These Passages Apply To You. Has He 'offered His Spirit to you,(Ephesians 5:18

These promises apply to each believer, as Hebrews 10:10,(all)-18 makes this clear. Only those who are in the New Covenant,(Jn. 1:12) will have their Sins forgiven. Only those who repent and receive Christ are covered by the Blood that makes this covenant possible! The WT has deceitfully misrepresented who the 144000 really are. Only these who are justified and sanctified by repentant and faith in the blood are in the New Covenant.

Each believer has God’s Spirit indwelling in them and is being led by it – 1 John 3:24, ; 4:4. Our sanctification grows daily as much as each allow the Spirit to work in them. That’s why we are encouraged to stay focused. It helps us to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh,(as we once did,1 Jn. 2:15.

Did God give the Holy Spirit,('His Spirit') to only 144000 people and not each follower??? How in the world could they be able to overcome the world around them with out His Spirit,(leaving them with hearts of stone)? Christians are not hard hearted, neither are their 99%ers!


#5 Jun 10, 2010
He said,'them,'(still speaking about His followers).

“I will give them an undivided heart and put "a new spirit" in them.”.. Who, only 144000 people? No,(Lk11:13)!

Ezekiel 11:19 I will give them an undivided heart and put "a new spirit" in them; I will remove from "them" their heart of stone and give "them" a heart of flesh. 20 Then "they" will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. "They" will be my people, and I will be "their" God.(Emphases mine).

Using WT theology, what does that say about 99% of it's flock???

The WT has 99% of our JW friends and acquaintances not only ‘outside’ the will of God but also the 'prayer' of Jesus Christ,( Jn. 6:54,56, Jn. 14:20 ;17:17-22, Romans 8:1, 9) in (union with) Christ.
What class of Spirit would 'not want' as many as possible, to have the Spirit of Jesus Christ in them???

(Heb. 12:5-8.)

And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

We all pray these same ones tire of seeing what ‘keeps’ looking back at them each time they happen to look into a mirror,


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