Can An Intelligent Person Remain a Wi...

“Surprised By Love”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#89 Nov 15, 2012
Nomi wrote:
JW's are very intelligent people. People thought my Father had been to college, by the way he expressed himself. He did not. Ours is a continuing education. We are contantly learning.
There are some Jehovah's Witnesses out there that may have a higher than average I.Q. unfortunately this intelligence is not developed because they belong to a religion that discourages higher education and forbids independent thought. Instead, they offer some Bible training and some third grade circular logic.

This training may give the illusion of an education, but it is very shallow and limited. As a JW, you learn to parrot the Watchtowers faulty reasoning, but you are not allowed to question anything or develop critical thinking skills. A JW at the door may sound quite intelligent while giving a 30 second memorized speech. But if you ask any hard questions, they are lost.

“BIBLE TRUTHS *NEVER* CHANGE”

Since: Aug 09

LET GO AND LET GOD

#90 Nov 15, 2012
Nomi wrote:
JW's are very intelligent people. People thought my Father had been to college, by the way he expressed himself. He did not. Ours is a continuing education. We are contantly learning.
Yes...the JWs may FEEL they are constantly learning only due to the fact that the GB keeps changing their minds, changing their teachings and changing what their followers must then accept in order to achieve the "unity" they so desire to present to the world.

Nomi...just think about all the doctrinal changes you yourself have seen floating by in the years since you were old enough to understand them. The "separating of the sheep and the goats" and the GB's "generation" teaching quickly comes to mind as the more recent ones.

I far prefer NOW....to place MY faith and trust in the more solid, unwavering, unchanging and DEPENDABLE (and quite beautiful) teachings that have been in existence and that have sustained the faith of countless God-loving people for a very, very long time.
Jace

Woodbridge, VA

#91 Nov 15, 2012
SOS wrote:
<quoted text>lol,
Fh chandler forgot to cover his tracks,
Ooopsy.
His master in ny do it all the time and we call them on it all the time
Noni

Elizabeth, Australia

#92 Nov 15, 2012
Witness for who?

Those who witness for Jehovah will not promote a group/sect, "knowing that such a man has been turned out of the way and is sinning, be being self-condemned."

Witnesses of Jehovah will direct you to his son, whom the Father sent "for the world to be saved through him." A true witness will be faithful and remain in the word. They recognise authorities in their relative positions; Jesus is above all authorities and governments. They will obey Jehovah as God rather than man. The words of a slave will never over-ride the words of the master. They render sacred service to Jehovah and not to a slave class. The congregation is the body and Jesus is the head.

"For the speech about the torture stake is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is God's power. For it is written: "I will make the wisdom of the wise perish, and the intelligence of the intellectual I will shove aside." Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this system of things? Did not God make the wisdom of the world foolish? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not get to know God, God saw good through the foolishness of what is preached to save those believing."
Noni

Elizabeth, Australia

#93 Nov 15, 2012
For you behold his calling of you, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth; but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame; and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are, in order that no flesh might boast in the sight of God. But it is due to him that you are in union with Christ Jesus, who has become to us wisdom from God.
bystander no more

Elk Grove, CA

#94 Nov 15, 2012
The Real Karen wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you prove that bystander?
Only by the numbers published in the yearbook.

Since: Oct 10

Homebush, Australia

#95 Nov 15, 2012
bystander no more wrote:
<quoted text>
More are coming in than are leaving.
We're still growing.
most in western countries that are baptised are born in the faith not converted, very few come in now from outside you should know that.

and the bibles study average is deceiving also, as parents are now allowed to add a baby as a bible study, did you know that.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#96 Nov 15, 2012
Jace wrote:
<quoted text>
His master in ny do it all the time and we call them on it all the time
I don't necessarily agree with the premise of this thread..but if what you naysayers say is true and there are few to no intelligent Witnesses..and FC Cantwin couldn't even make it in that environment....er.....lol!
bystander no more

Elk Grove, CA

#97 Nov 15, 2012
array wrote:
...most in western countries that are baptised are born in the faith not converted, very few come in now from outside you should know that...
In my area of the US we have a huge Hmong community that is being converted.

So many that the Branch has almost completed a two story Hmong Translation Center bethel facility here.

The bethel home is on the second floor with a double KH on the ground floor.

One of my best friends is a bethelite there. It's beautiful :-)

Since: Oct 10

Homebush, Australia

#98 Nov 15, 2012
bystander no more wrote:
<quoted text>
In my area of the US we have a huge Hmong community that is being converted.
So many that the Branch has almost completed a two story Hmong Translation Center bethel facility here.
The bethel home is on the second floor with a double KH on the ground floor.
One of my best friends is a bethelite there. It's beautiful :-)
oh thats nice, as the JW teach that their will be no mass conversion before the end, one should look at it in a possitive light, that less are coming in because we are so close, anyway this is what the Wt teaches so I guess according to them there should be a slow down instead they rely on figures.

The GB don't know who gets baptised that have been coverted. One only has to see at the assemlies you can tell mainly all young kids, and they are not from the world obviously, with less and less each year.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#99 Nov 16, 2012
bystander no more wrote:
<quoted text>
Only by the numbers published in the yearbook.
That really proves nothing does it? Anyone can print into their own literture what they want it to say. Think about that, Please.

“BIBLE TRUTHS *NEVER* CHANGE”

Since: Aug 09

LET GO AND LET GOD

#100 Nov 16, 2012
The Real Karen wrote:
<quoted text>
That really proves nothing does it? Anyone can print into their own literture what they want it to say. Think about that, Please.
Now....in looking back over the years at what the WTS has printed, I MORE than strongly suspect this has been the case.

“Surprised By Love”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#101 Nov 16, 2012
Nedoba wrote:
<quoted text>
Now....in looking back over the years at what the WTS has printed, I MORE than strongly suspect this has been the case.
Do you think they are fudging the numbers? I don't know, it seems to me their numbers are not that impressive. If you look at the hours spent publishing (1.7 billion) compared to the number baptized (263131) for 2011, it shows it takes 6.5 thousand hours to get one convert. I think the numbers are probably correct as to what was reported, and they just focus on the hours and brag about that.

I do think the numbers reported by individuals arre probably inflated. When I was in, I was told to report a hours for a Bible study with my children whether or not I actually had a study, because I had to have talked to them about spiritual things during the week. I refused to do that, it just didn't feel right. I have read anecdotal stories of even pioneers who made their hours even though they never went out. So who knows how many hours are actually spent in field circus.

And it would be very difficult to inflate the increase in publishers. If they faked the numbers, even a little, the numbers would quickly get so far off ( due to compounding), it would be obvious. There are other organizations that look at these statistics. I could be wrong, but I think those numbers are probably correct.
I worked for a company that fudged the numbers in order to manipulate the stock price. This worked for a year or so, but it quickly became obvious, and the excrement hit the air circulating device, if you know what I mean. The company never recovered, the stock became worthless and the CEO went to jail. It is just not that easy to fake numbers.
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#102 Nov 16, 2012
much happier now wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you think they are fudging the numbers? I don't know, it seems to me their numbers are not that impressive. If you look at the hours spent publishing (1.7 billion) compared to the number baptized (263131) for 2011, it shows it takes 6.5 thousand hours to get one convert. I think the numbers are probably correct as to what was reported, and they just focus on the hours and brag about that.
I do think the numbers reported by individuals arre probably inflated. When I was in, I was told to report a hours for a Bible study with my children whether or not I actually had a study, because I had to have talked to them about spiritual things during the week. I refused to do that, it just didn't feel right. I have read anecdotal stories of even pioneers who made their hours even though they never went out. So who knows how many hours are actually spent in field circus.
And it would be very difficult to inflate the increase in publishers. If they faked the numbers, even a little, the numbers would quickly get so far off ( due to compounding), it would be obvious. There are other organizations that look at these statistics. I could be wrong, but I think those numbers are probably correct.
I worked for a company that fudged the numbers in order to manipulate the stock price. This worked for a year or so, but it quickly became obvious, and the excrement hit the air circulating device, if you know what I mean. The company never recovered, the stock became worthless and the CEO went to jail. It is just not that easy to fake numbers.
When you have dishonest men who are willing to distort and lie about scriptures to inflate themselves into being the salvation of millions everything they say is to benefit themselves and cannot be trusted to have any truth in them. They are false prohets and God said do not follow them, do not believe them.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#103 Nov 16, 2012
Nedoba wrote:
<quoted text>
Now....in looking back over the years at what the WTS has printed, I MORE than strongly suspect this has been the case.
I have done the same thing in looking back Nedoba. I guess once our eyes are opened, we begin to see everything that we once could not see.

Since I got some sleep I feel better now.:) The children always spend the night on Thursday due to their mothers late classes and it always runs me short on sleep. We have an extra bedroom for them to sleep in,but they prefer to sleep on the floor next to me. Do you think it has to do with the fact that I let them watch TV a little later than I should? ;)

“Surprised By Love”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#104 Nov 16, 2012
dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> When you have dishonest men who are willing to distort and lie about scriptures to inflate themselves into being the salvation of millions everything they say is to benefit themselves and cannot be trusted to have any truth in them. They are false prohets and God said do not follow them, do not believe them.
It is not so much that I think they are honest, they have proven they are not. It is more that I think it would be very difficult to manipulate these numbers. It is not impossible, and perhaps they have, but it doesn't seem likely to me.
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#105 Nov 16, 2012
much happier now wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not so much that I think they are honest, they have proven they are not. It is more that I think it would be very difficult to manipulate these numbers. It is not impossible, and perhaps they have, but it doesn't seem likely to me.
As ND has mentioned many times I believe they give you have truths that is the same as lies. They manipulate the figures by not explaining that the figures represent born in's and babies. For the liars and sneaks they can always find ways to manipulate figures.
It doesn't really matter if they increased 2% or what ever they claim, they don't say how many went out the back door or became inactive.
None of that matters when they have to face Jesus and see how far they get with their tricky talk with the only true savior who has nothing to do with an org of false teachers and false prophets, who crucify Jesus at every memorial day as they turn their back to the emblems meant to remember Him by.

“NO, YOU MOVE.”

Since: Dec 06

Republic of Elbonia

#106 Nov 19, 2012
Jace wrote:
Note how confused this poor man is
I asked him a question and notice his 2 contridictory responses
I might take you more seriously if you could spell CONTRADICTORY correctly.

As it is, that I don't take your question seriously doesn't mean I haven't addressed it.

jace: Confused man!!!!! Poor confused man

Reply: Mmmmkay.

jace: You didn't answer my question you ducked it
But that is ok

Reply: I didn't duck the question at all - I illustrated its ridiculousness, and you can't deal with it, because it forces you to address what YOU believe, because what you believe is substantially the same as that statement you take issue with.

That's called cognitive dissonance.

jace: see for me getting follks like you down on record to me has been the key to helping my wife and I help folks see just how the jw mindset works

Reply: "Helping" people exchange one delusion for another is not helping them, friend.

jace: Over the years I have found asking very simple and direct questions have the most impact in showing just what it takes to be a supporter of the jw theolgy

Reply: My responses are not supportive of the JW theology.

But it's cute that you think so.

jace: While you make think you gave a slick response.

Reply: "Slick" implies that there is some sort of trickery on my part. I don't work that way. You posed a question with a false premise, as pointed out in previous responses and, as yet, not [substantively] addressed. You can't deal with the ramifications of my response - which refuses to buy into your false premise - which is why you have to continue to go on about your boogeymen who aren't here rather than addressing me, and what I'm presenting to you.

jace: This is the part I enjoy the most about critical thinking questions...

Reply: Critical thinking?

Do, please, enlighten me as to the nature of this alternate reality you inhabit wherein a question based on a false premise, with a built-in, predetermined answer constitutes a "critical thinking question"!

jace: They are simple and direct and the answer to them don't require 3 or 4 paragraphs to respone to

Reply: "Critical thinking questions" can't always be summed up in one word.

jace: See when I aske you a question I do it for the purpose of allowing nonjw readers to see how you respond

Reply: Or, in other words, you don't actually care about any actual critical response; all your interested in is using this as a propaganda tool.

"Critical thinking" my left big toe.

jace: When they ask the right questions it causes the jw supporter like you to run around the barn And they get to see it See you realize that to answer my question would then set you up to apply the same standard to the wt writers

Reply: It's you who wishes to apply a different standard to the JWGB than to other sects - and who, seemingly, can't deal with the reality of his chosen god gleefully offering nothing but a malediction to any and all who reject his word.

jace: If any writer for the new york times made the same statement....

Reply: As it is, the xtian bible is only SLIGHTLY less demonstrably inaccurate than the NYT.

jace: You know the same as any nonjw that such a writer is extreme in his views towards his published material Yet you are unable to bring yourself to say that...

Reply: You're right; I'm not going to say that something as benign as the teachings of the JWGB are "extreme," because that wouldn't be the truth.

jace: The nonjw has no problem calling the boys extreme...

Reply: And?

That they [you] say it doesn't make it so.
Full Monty

Lawrenceville, GA

#107 Nov 19, 2012
if you are having doubts about the JW's teachings consider SCIENTOLOGY as it offers a multi step program which has a place for all www.scientology.org is where to find out more...transfer from one cult to another without trouble...

“NO, YOU MOVE.”

Since: Dec 06

Republic of Elbonia

#108 Nov 19, 2012
Talk about exchanging one delusion for another....

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