Can An Intelligent Person Remain a Wi...

“Surprised By Love”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#68 Nov 11, 2012
Nomi wrote:
Shunning is barbaric policy, but without it, the Jehovah's Witnesses would crumble.
It is based on the Bible, a Book you should consider reading.
You should as well.

“AVAUNT, YOU FAIRIES.”

Since: Dec 06

Putingrad

#69 Nov 12, 2012
Jace wrote:
If you ask the avg person...
The "average" person is so-called for a reason.

I believe the post to which you responded - in a portion of text you neither quoted nor addressed - spoke to the thinking of the "average" person regarding falsely-called extremism.

jace:...is it extreme for a writer to tell his reader that what he writes is not inspired not infallible but rejection of what has been written will mean that God will have to kill one...Such a view is considered extreme

Reply: It may be considered "extreme" by the average person who doesn't actually understand the nature of the term; your "average" person defines extreme pretty much the same way you do - "Anything I don't personally agree with, or anything I don't think is 'normal' or 'mainstream.'"

The belief that "god" is on the side of the JWGB is not unique to your Brooklyn boogeymen, nor is the belief that "god" will act on behalf of "true" believers as in biblical times - which, for reference, typically resulted in "god" killing anyone and everyone who didn't let themselves be dominated by his chosen nation - especially "extreme." As pointed out, "extremists" are people who believe NOT that "god" is on their side, or that he/she/it will take action on their behalf, but one who actually believes that it is their duty to take action themselves - up to and including the genocide of "infidels" - and that "god" not only approves, but will take action to support them.

jace: My wife and I had the opportunity to share this little known view held by the wt editorial staff in regards to their published material

Reply: To what group of individuals was the idea that "god" is on the side of a particular group - in this case, the JWGB - "little known?" 30,000 different sects of xtianity imagine they and they alone are the chosen of "god." Who, exactly, is this news to?

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#70 Nov 12, 2012
Nedoba wrote:
<quoted text>
Due to a lot of growing health problems plus caring for a 11 year-old child with ADHD and Asperger's Syndrome...."making meetings" and caring for him while AT the meetings....became impossible for me to manage. I stopped attending them and began taking stock of who I am and spiritually, where I was headed.
I agree with everything you pointed out....it was pretty much the same for me.....those layers began to peel away PLUS the pressure was OFF to race around planning my entire day around preparing for and getting to....meetings....then to get home at 10PM and begin getting a wide awake and hyper child into bed.
As you have already discovered, it takes COURAGE to peer through the "you must do this and not do that" garbage and see what the Creator truly expects of us. It takes COURAGE to admit that you had been duped and hoodwinked and MORE courage to stand up to the punishment the GB will dish out in the form of emotional blackmail and shunning.....but it is ALL worth it when you see the terrific blessings and benefits that await those who have this COURAGE.
.
once i quit taking in their daily dose of poison, i got brutally honest with myself and my doubts that were nagging me.... after i figured 1914 out and left jws, i stripped everything down to the basics, down at the river, with the help of some strong medicine that opened me way up, and slowly built it all back up based on the laws of the universe......it all fits if you start on a rock....remote spots along the river don't lie...... there is soooo much information to absorb out there..... like the bible says, the creation is continually testifying to the creator.
i got to know the creator on a different level.... it was all heavy realities...... like jesus said, the holy spirit will teach you, if you let him.

“Christmas ONLY for Christians!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#71 Nov 12, 2012
An intelligent person cannot remain a witness.

No honest person can believe the lies taught by Satan's organization, the jehovah's witnesses.

jehovah's witnesses produce only false prophecies, false doctrines, false scriptures, molested children, and a fake name for their fake god.

“BIBLE TRUTHS *NEVER* CHANGE”

Since: Aug 09

LET GO AND LET GOD

#72 Nov 12, 2012
red blood relative wrote:
<quoted text>
once i quit taking in their daily dose of poison, i got brutally honest with myself and my doubts that were nagging me.... after i figured 1914 out and left jws, i stripped everything down to the basics, down at the river, with the help of some strong medicine that opened me way up, and slowly built it all back up based on the laws of the universe......it all fits if you start on a rock....remote spots along the river don't lie...... there is soooo much information to absorb out there..... like the bible says, the creation is continually testifying to the creator.
i got to know the creator on a different level.... it was all heavy realities...... like jesus said, the holy spirit will teach you, if you let him.
I can relate to and agree with all that you brought out. I also liked the way you put it when you got to KNOW THE CREATOR on a different level! This was also my experience and the best way I can begin to describe it is that the WTS crams Him into their own tiny and cramped box so that His full glory is deliberately hidden from view. They know PRECISELY what they are doing in purposely misdirecting and misguiding their followers right into oblivion and away from any hope of salvation....and are getting away with this for the time being. The evil cult IS being exposed for what it is and the Creator and His Son will see this cult destroyed JUST as the WTS has been predicting "all others" would be.

Since: Aug 10

Dunbar, UK

#73 Nov 13, 2012
Bite My Jehovah wrote:
An intelligent person cannot remain a witness.
James 3:15
This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic.

Earthly wisdom will allow a person to remain a Jehovah's Witness. Devoid of spiritual insight, they become wise in their own eyes but are blind to the truth.

What is true is that a born again Christian cannot remain a member of Jehovah's Witnesses.

That is to say, not in their heart, because some Jehovah's Witnesses who are born again choose to remain Jehovah's Witnesses in order to maintain contact with their families and to patiently wait for the Holy Spirit to work on their hearts and minds.
jace

Clinton, MD

#74 Nov 13, 2012
Gotyou wrote:
<quoted text> wow! Real nice answer. Fh Chandler, what do you have to say now? Shame on you, Fh Chandler, for continuing to defend those WTS fools at Brooklyn.
just keeping it real
ask any of your co-workers is this view extreme and you will see, folks reconize foolishness when they hear it
jace

Clinton, MD

#75 Nov 13, 2012
FH Chandler

jace:...is it extreme for a writer to tell his reader that what he writes is not inspired not infallible but rejection of what has been written will mean that God will have to kill one...Such a view is considered extreme

Reply: It may be considered "extreme" by the average person who doesn't actually understand the nature of the term; your "average" person defines extreme pretty much the same way you do - "Anything I don't personally agree with, or anything I don't think is 'normal' or 'mainstream.'"

@@@@@@@@@

why not put my statement to the test? so i will ask you the following and please share with us as to whether you consider the following view Extreme?

"a writer (pick any publications written today if you like)to tell his reader that what he writes is not inspired not infallible but rejection of what has been written will mean that God will have to kill one...

##########

what book or publication published in the year 2012 would you not consider such a statement by the Writer as not being Extreme- keep in mind the writer says WHAT HE WRITES is NOT inspired or infallible

"The belief that "god" is on the side of the JWGB is not unique to your Brooklyn boogeymen"

Excellent point, so how does that help your cause just because others decided to walk in the street without looking both ways
both are unwise to do

As pointed out, "extremists" are people who believe NOT that "god" is on their side, or that he/she/it will take action on their behalf, but one who actually believes that it is their duty to take action themselves - up to and including the genocide of "infidels" - and that "god" not only approves, but will take action to support them."

Who said the above?? one doesn't have to take action THEMSELVES to have an Extremeist Viewpoint, come on dude you should know that

jace: My wife and I had the opportunity to share this little known view held by the wt editorial staff in regards to their published material
Reply: To what group of individuals was the idea that "god" is on the side of a particular group - in this case, the JWGB - "little known?" 30,000 different sects of xtianity imagine they and they alone are the chosen of "god." Who, exactly, is this news to-

usually jw co-workers, families and neighbors-

Why not test it out like we do all the time

when we speak to groups we always ask-

Do you know that your jw coworker, cousin , neighbor DOES NOT CONSIDER YOU A CHRISTIAN?

do you know that the jw you work with believes that unless you accept the explanation of Scripture as presented by the wt editorial staff in their little pamplets that GOD IS GOING TO HAVE TO KILL YOU

do me a favor, ask any of your coworkers DID THE KNOW THE ASNWER TO THE 2 QUESTIONS ABOVE
AND GET BACK WITH

“Christmas ONLY for Christians!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#76 Nov 13, 2012
Mary MacLellan wrote:
<quoted text>
James 3:15
This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic.
Earthly wisdom will allow a person to remain a Jehovah's Witness. Devoid of spiritual insight, they become wise in their own eyes but are blind to the truth.
What is true is that a born again Christian cannot remain a member of Jehovah's Witnesses.
That is to say, not in their heart, because some Jehovah's Witnesses who are born again choose to remain Jehovah's Witnesses in order to maintain contact with their families and to patiently wait for the Holy Spirit to work on their hearts and minds.
An intelligent person cannot remain in the evil and wicked cult of jehovah's witnesses.

I should have said that an intelligent person would never become a witness...but I believe the cult chooses to prey upon the emotional weak and those who are experiencing grief.

However those who are tricked into joining the cult, when they come to their senses and seek the truth from the Bible, and avoid the half truths and outright lies of the jehovah's witnesses, quickly leave the cult.

“BIBLE TRUTHS *NEVER* CHANGE”

Since: Aug 09

LET GO AND LET GOD

#77 Nov 13, 2012
Bite My Jehovah wrote:
<quoted text>
An intelligent person cannot remain in the evil and wicked cult of jehovah's witnesses.
I should have said that an intelligent person would never become a witness...but I believe the cult chooses to prey upon the emotional weak and those who are experiencing grief.
However those who are tricked into joining the cult, when they come to their senses and seek the truth from the Bible, and avoid the half truths and outright lies of the jehovah's witnesses, quickly leave the cult.
When "studying with WTS reps" an intelligent person will attempt to try very hard to stop thinking about all the mandatory (to the WT cult) orders and unpleasant changes they have to accept as "from God"....while wholly throwing themselves into being sucked into an endless barrage of cult training sessions and all other WTS pursuits.

A WTS "study" will occasionally take a look back at their lives BEFORE all the don'ts, can'ts and must nots that the GB requires....and see that AFTER these edicts being insisted on are being followed....how stealthily and slyly that the WTS has had them incorporated into the "study's" lifestyle. It is a shock when one discovers how they have been manipulated so well and how they ever got to this point.

Even at the beginning, I can recall having major questions and serious doubts about the WT cult steps I was taking....and I was told to just keep on with my "study" and it would all be straightened out. God would bless my efforts, and so on and so forth. Being a novice in anything "bible" related back then....I FOOLISHLY TRUSTED these people and wound up even MORE indoctrinated.

It was a very twisted road (and often emotionally and spiritually painful) that I had traveled for those 30 years until the voice from the heavens called me to get OUT of her....or should I say more correctly....that (thankfully)I LISTENED TO AND OBEYED that voice warning me to get out of her.

“AVAUNT, YOU FAIRIES.”

Since: Dec 06

Putingrad

#78 Nov 13, 2012
jace wrote:
"The belief that "god" is on the side of the JWGB is not unique to your Brooklyn boogeymen" Excellent point, so how does that help your cause just because others decided to walk in the street without looking both ways both are unwise to do
To be considered, "extreme," even using the inaccurate definitions typically applied to that word - usually in the course of using it to pejoratively describe anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with you - an ideology has to be far outside [common] moral standards. Given that there are 30,000+ different sects of xtianity, all of them imagining that "god" considers them "true christians" to the exclusion of all others, labeling the particular ideas of this particular sect "extreme" relative to all others, for simply believing - as they all do - that they alone are "true" christians, is rather pointless.

The issue is not whether or not it is "unwise," but whether or not it is "extreme," or, more accurately, extreme as you imagine it.

jace: Who said the above?? one doesn't have to take action THEMSELVES to have an Extremeist Viewpoint, come on dude you should know that

Reply: You have yet to establish the idea that a particular sect believing itself to alone have the backing of "god" is extreme - given the conditions described above.

That you imagine it to be "extreme" does not make it so.

jace: usually jw co-workers, families and neighbors-

Reply: Have they been living in caves in Afghanistan?
jace

Clinton, MD

#79 Nov 13, 2012
FH Chandler wrote:
<quoted text>
To be considered, "extreme," even using the inaccurate definitions typically applied to that word - usually in the course of using it to pejoratively describe anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with you - an ideology has to be far outside [common] moral standards. Given that there are 30,000+ different sects of xtianity, all of them imagining that "god" considers them "true christians" to the exclusion of all others, labeling the particular ideas of this particular sect "extreme" relative to all others, for simply believing - as they all do - that they alone are "true" christians, is rather pointless.
The issue is not whether or not it is "unwise," but whether or not it is "extreme," or, more accurately, extreme as you imagine it.
jace: Who said the above?? one doesn't have to take action THEMSELVES to have an Extremeist Viewpoint, come on dude you should know that
Reply: You have yet to establish the idea that a particular sect believing itself to alone have the backing of "god" is extreme - given the conditions described above.
That you imagine it to be "extreme" does not make it so.
jace: usually jw co-workers, families and neighbors-
Reply: Have they been living in caves in Afghanistan?
##########

FH

this is why i like your post, they are often very well worded, but rarely actually deal with the question presented

i took my comments to the bottomline, which you failed to address

so i will ask you again --since this is the bottomline of my post

I stated which you avoided the following:

"i will ask you the following and please share with us as to whether you consider the following view Extreme?"

1.

"a writer (pick any publications written today if you like)to tell his reader that what he writes is not inspired not infallible but rejection of what has been written will mean that God will have to kill one..."

2.

"what book or publication published in the year 2012 would you not consider such a statement by the Writer as not being Extreme- keep in mind the writer says WHAT HE WRITES is NOT inspired or infallible

######

Could you actually address the issue above?

“Surprised By Love”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#80 Nov 13, 2012
FH CHANDLER
Given that there are 30,000+ different sects of xtianity, all of them imagining that "god" considers them "true christians" to the exclusion of all others, labeling the particular ideas of this particular sect "extreme" relative to all others, for simply believing - as they all do - that they alone are "true" christians, is rather pointless.

HAPPIER
Many Christian churches these days actually DO NOT believe that they alone are "true" Christians. I visited one this past Sunday while I was out of town visiting my in laws. It was a wonderful group, very loving. I heard no condemnation of any other religion. It was more about meeting the spiritual needs of the congregation members.

I had a long talk with my MIL later and she said they do not feel they are the only true Christians. I know of a few others that are the same. As an ex JW, it was a difficult concept for me to understand at first. I believe the Jehovah's witnesses are at the extreme end of spectrum on this, and I think the trend for other religions is moving to a more inclusive understanding of the different flavors of Christianity.

“AVAUNT, YOU FAIRIES.”

Since: Dec 06

Putingrad

#81 Nov 14, 2012
jace wrote:
i took my comments to the bottomline, which you failed to address
I addressed it. Perhaps not in the way you would prefer it be addressed, which would be in the context of pretending that there is something especially sinister about a specific sect of xtianity believing itself to be "true" to the exclusion of all others.

When this particular sect starts showing up at doors with bombs in their book-bags instead of Awake! magazines, call me.

[Seven Seven Seven 93 Eleven]

jace: a writer (pick any publications written today if you like)to tell his reader that what he writes is not inspired not infallible but rejection of what has been written will mean that God will have to kill one...

Reply: You do understand that being killed [or, being tortured for eternity, depending on what label you attach to yourself] is the endgame for any and all that reject scripture, right?

So, when you belly-ache about this subject, let's be very clear what you're belly-aching about: you - still a professed "christian," and, thus, one who believes that rejection of your god will result in death/eternal torture for anyone and everyone other than the "few" who choose the proverbial road to life - take issue with a particular sect of other christians for believing that the "few" who chose the proverbial road to life are just - and forgive the silliness of this next statement; I'm aware of how funny it sounds - a few fewer?

I mean, you love to repeat that statement from an ancient pub that speaks about 99.9% of mankind NOT being on "god's" [YOUR god, allegedly] side at the proverbial end; what does that percentage drop down to if, instead of just applying to the JW sect, each and every professed christian actually became a "true" christian? 90%? 85%? Maybe 80%?

Do you now feel better about that percentage because the proverbial few is 15-20% of humanity rather than just 0.01%?

So, you'll forgive me if I don't take your question - the question of a professed christian whose belief system is predicated on the idea that he is among the "few" on a proverbial road to life, as opposed to the "many" [1] who choose the road to "destruction," but who for some inane reason wants to biddy over the percentages - as though it has some special merit.

Reference:
_____

[1] Matthew 7:13,14 (NIV) http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...
Jace

New York, NY

#82 Nov 14, 2012
Note how confused this poor man is

I asked him a question and notice his 2 contridictory responses
FH Chandler wrote:
<quoted text>

1
I addressed it.

Later on in his post he said

2

So, you'll forgive me if I don't take your question -
Confused man!!!!!

Poor confused man

You are really good man but only at avoiding the question

You didn't answer my question you ducked it

But that is ok
see for me getting follks like you down on record to me has been the key to helping my wife and I help folks see just how the jw mindset works

See you play a role that you don't even realize
Here on this forum

For me it's great you don't realize it

Over the years I have found asking very simple and direct questions have the most impact in showing just what it takes to be a supporter of the jw theolgy

I asked you the same question my wife and I invite nonjw to ask jw in regards to what the. Wt editorial staff writes

And they answer it unlike you who ran and ducked it

See when a nonjw ask of you the exact same question I poses to you. While you make think you gave a slick response. The nonjw see someone who is unable to address a simple question

This is the part I enjoy the most about critical thinking questions They are simple and direct and the answer to them don't require 3 or 4 paragraphs to respone to

See when I aske you a question I do it for the purpose of allowing nonjw readers to see how you respond

The biggest challenge anyone faces when talking to a jw is knowing what questions to ask

When they ask the right questions it causes the jw supporter like you to run around the barn

And they get to see it

See you realize that to answer my question would then set you up to apply the same standard to the wt writers

If any writer for the new york times made the same statement. That what they write is not inspired not infallible but rejection of it means god will have to kill you You know the same as any nonjw that such a writer is extreme in his views towards his published material

Yet you are unable to bring yourself to say that for you know that is what the boys in writing do all the time
But here is your problem

The nonjw has no problem calling the boys extreme In their views towards their published
Works

They just get the bonus of seeing you skate the issue

Lol

Since: Mar 09

United States

#84 Nov 14, 2012
JW's are very intelligent people. People thought my Father had been to college, by the way he expressed himself. He did not. Ours is a continuing education. We are contantly learning.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#85 Nov 15, 2012
Nomi wrote:
JW's are very intelligent people. People thought my Father had been to college, by the way he expressed himself. He did not. Ours is a continuing education. We are contantly learning.
Yes you are constantly learning, but that learning may only be good for a few years, then they teach you that what you learned was wrong, so teach it this way now.
Nomi, JW's do have some educated people, but then so do every other religion out there.
What I want you to really sit there and think about is this....

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

That WHOSOEVER believeth in HIM...it does not say believeth in the JWs religion does it? it does not say belongs to any religion or organization does it? It says, WHOSOEVER. That is those who believe in who? JESUS CHRIST, JEHOVAH'S SON! Not a religion, not a organization. Nomi, please really think about this and think long and hard. The religion you are being faithful to is not being faithful to you. When you stand before the Great White Throne of judgment, Jesus is the only one who will save you. They will not ask you what religion you were or if you belonged to an organization, but who you believed in, who you gave yourself to here on earth. Don't let him say to you, "turn from me I never knew you". I know its scary of leaving at this late in age for you, but Nomi, its not to late to get on your knees and ask Jesus to forgive you for all your sins and give yourself to him right now. If you do this, he will never turn you away, and he will be with you for the rest of your days. There is no comfort like the comfort that Jesus can give you. You will have no fear of what any man can do to you, because Jesus will be right there to help you through it.

“Bustin' Myths”

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#86 Nov 15, 2012
Nomi wrote:
JW's are very intelligent people. People thought my Father had been to college, by the way he expressed himself. He did not. Ours is a continuing education. We are contantly learning.
You haven't learned much. You are back to your avatar that shows you promote halloween.

http://georgiasgifts-catblog.com/tag/hallowee...

“Christmas ONLY for Christians!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#87 Nov 15, 2012
Nomi wrote:
JW's are very intelligent people. People thought my Father had been to college, by the way he expressed himself. He did not. Ours is a continuing education. We are contantly learning.
Not true. jws are ignorant and gullible.

Perhaps someday you will learn to spell "constantly" and not remain ignorant.

“Family comes First”

Since: May 11

Weston super Mare

#88 Nov 15, 2012
Nomi wrote:
JW's are very intelligent people. People thought my Father had been to college, by the way he expressed himself. He did not. Ours is a continuing education. We are contantly learning.
Damn! More coffee sprayed on the laptop..

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