dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#3594 Nov 16, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't seen you to be interested in an "honest discussion." I ask you: when Jesus said all authority was given to him, who gave it to him? Let's talk. Matthew 28:18 "Then Jesus came to them and said,“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."
You refuse to believe what others say so why don't you just find the answer for yourself as scripture has the answer. But IMO you don't want to look because you might find the WT has lied to you and you must not lose faith in men that you worship. You just want to argue with those who refuse to follow self-appointed men of the WTS.
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simplyput

Aurora, CO

#3595 Nov 16, 2012
dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no respect for the NWT for it is so obvious that it was needed because the false teachings of the WT was contradicting the KJV that they had been using for almost 100 yrs
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I also have no respect for your god, the WTS, that says the name of God is not Jehovah but it okay to use a false name because man is familiar with that false name.
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I have no respect for for a group of men who place themselves in the seat of God and say you must believe everything they say as though it is from God himself and proceed to flip flop what was suppose to be from God into the trash. Nothing that has to be thrown away was ever from God but if anyone voiced their doubt they were disf.
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I have no respect for men who say you must come to their org for salvation when Jesus said he was the only way.
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No respect for arrogant liars who enslave others for free labor.
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No respect for an org of men ho refuse to follow Jesus' command to love your neighbor.
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Do you need more to wake you up to the dishonest, lying men that you follow?
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Learn to read scriptures without the tricky talk of the WT and you will find the freedom to worship God and Jesus the way they are suppose to be worship in truth as scriptures teach rather than erroneous flip flopping men. Then you will see God does not flip flop !
My sentiments exactly! NWT has been changed to fit the WT.

JW is the most erroneous cult out there!!!
little lamb

Melbourne, Australia

#3596 Nov 16, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>LL, can you explain what it means to be born of spirit? Also what it means to "see the Kingdom of God"? Thank you. After you would do that, would you then explain why it is that Jesus said that the least one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than John the Baptist? Mattew 11:11 "Truly I say to YOU people, Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is." THOSE people were listening at that time, and they heard that someone in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than John. How do you understand this scripture? That will lead us back to our discussion we were having previously. So why did Jesus say that a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens would be greater than John the Baptist? Tell us, if you will.
God willing I would love to take your questions on one at a time.

"can you explain what it means to be born of spirit? "

ANSWER .....1 John 5 [1] "Everyone believing Jesus is the Christ, has been PORN FROM GOD"

why?

Because no one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him

and John 1 [12] " as many as received him, to them he gave authority to become Gods children"

Galatians 3 [26] " YOU ARE ALL, in fact SONS OF GOD through your faith in Christ Jesus."

Question.."Also what it means to "see the Kingdom of God"? Thank you.

Answer....1 Corinthians 2 [11-12] For who among men knows the things of a man except the spirit of men that is in him ?
So too, no one has come to know the things of God , except the spirit of God .
Now we RECEIVED not the spirit of the world , but the spirit, which is from God , that we might KNOW the things kindly given to us by God."

Thats why we "seek the Kingdom" because with Gods spirit because we can "see" the things he gives us

cont...
little lamb

Melbourne, Australia

#3597 Nov 16, 2012
Mattew 11:11 "Truly I say to YOU people, Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is." THOSE people were listening at that time, and they heard that someone in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than John. How do you understand this scripture? That will lead us back to our discussion we were having previously. So why did Jesus say that a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens would be greater than John the Baptist? Tell us, if you will.

Because a lesser one in the Kingdom of God knows more then John the Baptist did of the Kingdom of God.

John had to send disciples around to ask Jesus if he was the promised one, or should they wait for another...

Also Jesus said " But from the days of John the Baptist until now the Kingdom of the heavens is the goal towards which men press and those pressing forward are seizing it."

So until John the Baptist the " WAY" into the Kingdom of heaven had not been a goal.
little lamb

Melbourne, Australia

#3598 Nov 16, 2012
correction first post ..The word is BORN from God..not porn.
little lamb

Melbourne, Australia

#3599 Nov 16, 2012
" Eye has not seen and ear has not heard , neither have there been conceived in the heart of man, the things that God has PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM."

" For it is TO US God has revealed them THROUGH HIS SPIRIT , for the SPIRIT searches into the deep things of God"

Unless you are born of spirit you can not see the Kingdom of God..and not all men LOVE GOD.

Some love the glory of men more.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#3600 Nov 16, 2012
dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> Talk to LL for she says that God guards his words and all are inspired..
Why should I talk to LL about this? I am discussing this with you, not LL.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#3601 Nov 16, 2012
dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> Sorry, Richard, but most biblical scholars say it is the NWT that has inserted it's own bias into scriptures to uphold their doctrine rather than having doctrine that uphold scripture.Of course the NWT removed what they say is spurious and fake verses because it shows just how dishonest the WTS is. You can expect no less from a cult of men who claim they are necessary for salvation.
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You pick and chose from many bibles looking for something to agree with you.
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Mant bibles may use a different word but the meaning is the same.
You stated,
"Matthew 6:13
King James Version (KJV)
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Compare:
Matthew 6:13
New International Version (NIV)
13 And lead us not into temptation,but deliver us from the evil one.’*

Footnote:* Matthew 6:13 Or from evil; some late manuscripts one,/ for yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen."
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Earlier Greek manuscripts don't have this added phrase.
Many bible do have this phase in them so tell us what Greek manuscripts don't have this phase. Name them so they can be checked.
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KJV translation had 54 biblical, language scholars translating a language that many of them could carry on a conversation in the biblical languages so it is logical to rely on those translators rather then say, the NWT translator who had no knowledge.
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The NIV has their pros and cons. None can compare with the JKV that has stood the test of time and is used by most religions. Compare that with the NWT that is used by only JW's. i don't know of any denomination that relies on and teaches from the NIV .
dee,

You really need help in understanding the difference between a later Greek manuscript and an earlier Greek manuscript used in the translation of the Bible into modern English.

The later Greek manuscripts have added verses and phrases, that do not,(repeat) do not appear in the earlier Greek manuscripts. Scholars know that this proves that the later "altered" manuscripts are not accurate, and thus they strike those fake and false verses out of their translations.

I said that I don't favor the NIV, but even those translators have made the same changes that the NWT made decades earlier.

(You said)>"Many bible do have this phase in them so tell us what Greek manuscripts don't have this phase. Name them so they can be checked."

If many Bibles do have these phrases in them, that tells me that they are being totaly dishonest.

I can't read Biblical Greek, so I have to take the word of the hundreds, possibly thousand or more Greek scholars that have found these fake verses and phrases, and rightfully removed them from their English text.

Even though the translators of the KJV were well qualified scholars, they were working from later Greek manuscripts that had already been altered with the fake and spurious verses.

Since their time, much earlier and much more accurate manuscripts have been used in the translating of the Greek text into modern English.

The main reason that the KJV is popular today, is because it still contains the fake and false verses and phrases that support the Trinity. This is true of all of the KJV family of translations, and a few others.

If the Trinity is true, why do Trinitarian theologians continue to use translations that they know contains deliberate and misleading verses and phrases?

And, by the way, where I live, few use the KJV. Most churches prefer the NASB and the NIV.
little lamb

Australia

#3602 Nov 17, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>LL,..., would you then explain why it is that Jesus said that the least one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than John the Baptist? Mattew 11:11 "Truly I say to YOU people, Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is." THOSE people were listening at that time, and they heard that someone in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than John. How do you understand this scripture? That will lead us back to our discussion we were having previously. So why did Jesus say that a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens would be greater than John the Baptist? Tell us, if you will.
Thought I would expand on this a bit more.

1 Peter 1 [3] " For as much as his divine power has given us freely all the things that concern life and godly devotion , through the accurate knowledge of the one that called us through glory and virtue .

Through these things he has given us the precious and very grand promises , that through these you may become sharers in divine nature."

What promises?

Hebrews 8 [8] " but now Jesus has obtained a more excellent public service , so that he is also the mediator of a correspondingly BETTER COVENANT, which has been legally established on BETTER PROMISES "

[7] For if the first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second"

You see John the Baptist was still under the old covenant

The new covenant was not inaugurated until Jesus poured out his BLOOD...these promises we are given now are BETTER PROMISES, then what John was under in the old covenant.

Thats why anyone in the Kingdom of heavens is a greater one then John.

Go back to 2 Peter [5] Yes for this reason by your contributing in RESPONSE all earnest effort, supply to your FAITH virtue , to your virtue knowledge , to your knowledge , self control, to your self control endurance, to your endurance godly devotion........etc

[8] " For if these things exist in you and over flow , they will prevent you from being inactive or unfruitful , regarding the accurate knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ........

for if you keep doing these things you will by no means EVER FAIL

[11] In fact thus there will be richly supplied to you the ENTRANCE into the everlasting Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Notice you don't have to be dead to have the entrance into the everlasting Kingdom supplied to us...but instead we are to be doing the above things , Faith , knowledge virtue , self control, endurance , godly devotion , LOVE. brotherly affection,

A person in sheol can't contibute these things to himself because there is no knowledge in sheol..these things are to be sought now, its part of what " seeking the Kingdom' is all about.

John did not have this understanding and he did not have the cleansing BLOOD of Jesus which is the new covenant

So you can see why one who is a lesser one in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater one then John..who was still operating under the old covenant.

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#3603 Nov 17, 2012
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Thought I would expand on this a bit more.
1 Peter 1 [3] " For as much as his divine power has given us freely all the things that concern life and godly devotion , through the accurate knowledge of the one that called us through glory and virtue .
Through these things he has given us the precious and very grand promises , that through these you may become sharers in divine nature."
What promises?
Hebrews 8 [8] " but now Jesus has obtained a more excellent public service , so that he is also the mediator of a correspondingly BETTER COVENANT, which has been legally established on BETTER PROMISES "
[7] For if the first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second"
You see John the Baptist was still under the old covenant
The new covenant was not inaugurated until Jesus poured out his BLOOD...these promises we are given now are BETTER PROMISES, then what John was under in the old covenant.
Thats why anyone in the Kingdom of heavens is a greater one then John.
Go back to 2 Peter [5] Yes for this reason by your contributing in RESPONSE all earnest effort, supply to your FAITH virtue , to your virtue knowledge , to your knowledge , self control, to your self control endurance, to your endurance godly devotion........etc
[8] " For if these things exist in you and over flow , they will prevent you from being inactive or unfruitful , regarding the accurate knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ........
for if you keep doing these things you will by no means EVER FAIL
[11] In fact thus there will be richly supplied to you the ENTRANCE into the everlasting Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Notice you don't have to be dead to have the entrance into the everlasting Kingdom supplied to us...but instead we are to be doing the above things , Faith , knowledge virtue , self control, endurance , godly devotion , LOVE. brotherly affection,
A person in sheol can't contibute these things to himself because there is no knowledge in sheol..these things are to be sought now, its part of what " seeking the Kingdom' is all about.
John did not have this understanding and he did not have the cleansing BLOOD of Jesus which is the new covenant
So you can see why one who is a lesser one in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater one then John..who was still operating under the old covenant.
You know something, LL, I'm still not following you. Because you say "old covenant," as if in contrast to the "new covenant" in reference to John the Baptist. And I am speaking specifically of that statement as directed towards John the Baptist, who you agreed died before the new covenant was inaugurated. So how is it that a lesser one of the kingdom of the heavens is greater than John the Baptist. As you've agreed, they are covenants, meaning a solemn agreement or oath settled upon between two parties. How do you define the "old covenant"? I think that is integral and vital to our discussion.

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#3604 Nov 17, 2012
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
We don't have a problem with that scripture , because if you read further you will see in verse John 1 [18]" No man has seen God at anytime , the only BEGOTTEN GOD who is in the bosum with the Fatheris the one that has explained him"
See that would have cleared it up for you, if you kept reading
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we?.... who is we?, little lamb?
is "we" the jw gov body and their pr reps and co???

anyway,..."no one has seen god" is because "his glory" is too much for you and me,...
so he sent his word and his holy spirit to deal with the situation......... they are him......HIM....YHWH
him...... the creator god, the alpha and the omega,... the first and last and the holy spirit circling the earth the word of god, the father eternal and king of kings
little lamb

Australia

#3605 Nov 17, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
You know something, LL, I'm still not following you. Because you say "old covenant," as if in contrast to the "new covenant" in reference to John the Baptist. And I am speaking specifically of that statement as directed towards John the Baptist, who you agreed died before the new covenant was inaugurated. So how is it that a lesser one of the kingdom of the heavens is greater than John the Baptist. As you've agreed, they are covenants, meaning a solemn agreement or oath settled upon between two parties. How do you define the "old covenant"? I think that is integral and vital to our discussion.
John the Baptist, was a Jew under the old covenant.,,the Law covenant, that shows Gods righteous requirements.

But they had to have lots of animal sacrifices to cleanse themselves often and from year to year... having a weakness in the flesh to keep Law perfectly.

John was the one that heralded in the Christ , saying

" Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world"

He was killed before Jesus inaugurated the new covenant.

Gods word tells us in Hebrews 9 [8] Thus the Holy Spirit makes it plain that the WAY into the holy place had not been made manifest while the first tent was standing"

That first tent was still standing when John the Baptist started his ministry...The old covenant John was under was the Law covenant, mediated by Moses and transmitted by angels in Sinai

[9] states .......However these things were unable to make a man PERFECT as respects his conscience."

[10]......and were only imposed until the APPOINTED time to set things straight."

John was like Gal 3 [23][explains] However before the FAITH arrived , we were being guarded under law, being delivered up together into custody , looking to the FAITH that was destined to be revealed"

John proclaimed " That the one coming AFTER him ..he was not worthy to tie up his laces."

Because when Jesus offered himself up as a sacrifice, he inaugurated, a new covenant [agreement]which is "legally established on better promises"

Hebrews 8 [13] "In saying a new covenant he has made the former one obsolete....."

If people wanted to worship the true God Jehovah B.C..they had to come into Israel as the Eunuch had to Jerusalem, to worship Jehovah.

But Jesus has inaugurated now a new way of worship .." Neither on this mountain or in Jerusalem, will true worshipers worship the Father..But true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and TRUTH."

How can that be?

Because now the BLOOD of Christ..

Hebrews 7 [12] For since the Priesthood is changed , there comes a necessity a change also of Law."

Because Jerusalem was center to the Priesthood offering animals for sacrifice..

but now we have a Priest in the manner of Melchizadek, who doesn't use blood of bulls and goats, but enters into the Holy Of holies now with his own BLOOD...

Heb 7 [16] Who has become such not according to law of commandments depending on the flesh , but according to the power of an indestructible LIFE."

So this Priest we now have is the " great shepherd of the sheep, who has been raised up from the dead with the BLOOD of an everlasting covenant"Hebrews 13 [20]

Thats why everyone who exercises faith in Jesus does not perish but has everlasting life..and John was not privvy to that , dying before it was established.

But anyone who is a lesser one in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater then John the Baptist , because in union with Christ we are a "new creation"

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#3606 Nov 17, 2012
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
John the Baptist, was a Jew under the old covenant.,,the Law covenant, that shows Gods righteous requirements.
But they had to have lots of animal sacrifices to cleanse themselves often and from year to year... having a weakness in the flesh to keep Law perfectly.
John was the one that heralded in the Christ , saying
" Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world"
He was killed before Jesus inaugurated the new covenant.
Gods word tells us in Hebrews 9 [8] Thus the Holy Spirit makes it plain that the WAY into the holy place had not been made manifest while the first tent was standing"
That first tent was still standing when John the Baptist started his ministry...The old covenant John was under was the Law covenant, mediated by Moses and transmitted by angels in Sinai
[9] states .......However these things were unable to make a man PERFECT as respects his conscience."
[10]......and were only imposed until the APPOINTED time to set things straight."
John was like Gal 3 [23][explains] However before the FAITH arrived , we were being guarded under law, being delivered up together into custody , looking to the FAITH that was destined to be revealed"
John proclaimed " That the one coming AFTER him ..he was not worthy to tie up his laces."
Because when Jesus offered himself up as a sacrifice, he inaugurated, a new covenant [agreement]which is "legally established on better promises"
Hebrews 8 [13] "In saying a new covenant he has made the former one obsolete....."
If people wanted to worship the true God Jehovah B.C..they had to come into Israel as the Eunuch had to Jerusalem, to worship Jehovah.
But Jesus has inaugurated now a new way of worship .." Neither on this mountain or in Jerusalem, will true worshipers worship the Father..But true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and TRUTH."
How can that be?
Because now the BLOOD of Christ..
Hebrews 7 [12] For since the Priesthood is changed , there comes a necessity a change also of Law."
Because Jerusalem was center to the Priesthood offering animals for sacrifice..
but now we have a Priest in the manner of Melchizadek, who doesn't use blood of bulls and goats, but enters into the Holy Of holies now with his own BLOOD...
Heb 7 [16] Who has become such not according to law of commandments depending on the flesh , but according to the power of an indestructible LIFE."
So this Priest we now have is the " great shepherd of the sheep, who has been raised up from the dead with the BLOOD of an everlasting covenant"Hebrews 13 [20]
Thats why everyone who exercises faith in Jesus does not perish but has everlasting life..and John was not privvy to that , dying before it was established.
But anyone who is a lesser one in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater then John the Baptist , because in union with Christ we are a "new creation"
OK, thank you for that answer, little lamb. Now I would like to discuss a couple of points with you, if I might. One is about the "old covenant." You agree that John was killed before Christ inaugurated the new covenant with his disciples. That is true. But so we can clarify what we're talking about, are you saying that the "old covenant" is the Mosaic Law Code (or covenant, as some call it)? I'm not saying I'm right or wrong on this issue, so let's see if we can come to an agreement or common understanding of this.
little lamb

Australia

#3607 Nov 18, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>OK, thank you for that answer, little lamb. Now I would like to discuss a couple of points with you, if I might. One is about the "old covenant." You agree that John was killed before Christ inaugurated the new covenant with his disciples. That is true. But so we can clarify what we're talking about, are you saying that the "old covenant" is the Mosaic Law Code (or covenant, as some call it)? I'm not saying I'm right or wrong on this issue, so let's see if we can come to an agreement or common understanding of this.
Yes I agree the old covenant was the covenant of Law given to Moses in the wilderness

Hebrews 9 [19] For when every commandment according to the LAW
had been spoken by Moses to ALL THE PEOPLE, he took the blood of young bulls and of the goats and with water and scarlet wool and hyssop and sprinkled the book itself and all the people , saying " this is the blood of the covenant that God has laid charge upon you....."

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#3608 Nov 18, 2012
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I agree the old covenant was the covenant of Law given to Moses in the wilderness
Hebrews 9 [19] For when every commandment according to the LAW
had been spoken by Moses to ALL THE PEOPLE, he took the blood of young bulls and of the goats and with water and scarlet wool and hyssop and sprinkled the book itself and all the people , saying " this is the blood of the covenant that God has laid charge upon you....."
Yes, of course. This was the blood of the covenant that Jehovah made with the nation of Israel (all the people). Now this leads me to my next question, or point. Let us review what exactly would be the outcome if the people obeyed the Law as spoken by Moses, and what would be if they did not obey that Law. The terms of the Law covenant were that if the Israelites kept the covenant they would be a people for the name of Jehovah, a kingdom of priests and a holy nation, with His blessing. I will use the NWT to quote scriptures here. Exodus 19:5,6 - "And now if YOU will strictly obey my voice and will indeed keep my covenant, then YOU will certainly become my special property out of all [other] peoples, because the whole earth belongs to me. And YOU yourselves will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the sons of Israel.” And, there were hard consequences if the nation did not obey.(Deuteronomy 28:1-14.) So what does it say at Exodus would happen IF the nation obeyed Jehovah's voice by means of the covenant? It's very interesting and hinges on many other parts of the Bible. Let's center on Ex. 19:5,6 for a moment. What would happen if they obeyed?
little lamb

Australia

#3609 Nov 18, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, of course. This was the blood of the covenant that Jehovah made with the nation of Israel (all the people). Now this leads me to my next question, or point. Let us review what exactly would be the outcome if the people obeyed the Law as spoken by Moses, and what would be if they did not obey that Law. The terms of the Law covenant were that if the Israelites kept the covenant they would be a people for the name of Jehovah, a kingdom of priests and a holy nation, with His blessing. I will use the NWT to quote scriptures here. Exodus 19:5,6 - "And now if YOU will strictly obey my voice and will indeed keep my covenant, then YOU will certainly become my special property out of all [other] peoples, because the whole earth belongs to me. And YOU yourselves will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the sons of Israel.” And, there were hard consequences if the nation did not obey.(Deuteronomy 28:1-14.) So what does it say at Exodus would happen IF the nation obeyed Jehovah's voice by means of the covenant? It's very interesting and hinges on many other parts of the Bible. Let's center on Ex. 19:5,6 for a moment. What would happen if they obeyed?
Yes..I agree , They would become a special property out of all the all other people , if they strictly listened to him and kept covenant.

Jehovah also laid before them blessings and maledictions.

In obeying the Law, there were many blessings , he would bless their food source , he would provide the rain, he would bless their fertility , he would bless them and put them high above every other nation , he would also defeat their enemies

In not obeying the Law he placed maledictions whereby instead of being blessed they would be cursed.

In the song of moses , he forewarned that they would not obey and that the curse would come upon them...He also told them that Jehovah's mercy will never come to an end, and that he would discipline them but he would never completely abandon them..Jesus told then their house was abandoned until they said " blessed is he who comes in the name of Jehovah"

So Jehovah put before them life and death , and urged them to choose life.

I believe we are in agreement on this...

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#3610 Nov 18, 2012
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes..I agree , They would become a special property out of all the all other people , if they strictly listened to him and kept covenant.
Jehovah also laid before them blessings and maledictions.
In obeying the Law, there were many blessings , he would bless their food source , he would provide the rain, he would bless their fertility , he would bless them and put them high above every other nation , he would also defeat their enemies
In not obeying the Law he placed maledictions whereby instead of being blessed they would be cursed.
In the song of moses , he forewarned that they would not obey and that the curse would come upon them...He also told them that Jehovah's mercy will never come to an end, and that he would discipline them but he would never completely abandon them..Jesus told then their house was abandoned until they said " blessed is he who comes in the name of Jehovah"
So Jehovah put before them life and death , and urged them to choose life.
I believe we are in agreement on this...
OK, very good. Me, too. Where we need correction, I look forward to Jehovah's correction if necessary. Now so the Mosaic law code on which we can agree was the "old covenant," as opposed to the "new covenant." Before we go any further, because I am studying this, too, the word covenant means: An agreement between two or more persons to do or refrain from doing some act; a compact; a contract. Under the Law Covenant, it was a bilateral covenant, meaning both sides had a role to carry out. If the Israelites obeyed the Law, God would bless them accordingly. If they did not, He would curse them. We've agreed there. And the national covenant also included the proviso that if they obeyed, they would be a kingdom of priests and a holy nation to him. Exodus 19:5,6 - And now if YOU will strictly obey my voice and will indeed keep my covenant, then YOU will certainly become my special property out of all [other] peoples, because the whole earth belongs to me. And YOU yourselves will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the sons of Israel.” I think in order to more fully understand this, though, we need to go back to the covenant God made with Abraham, in which he said he would bless the whole earth due to Abraham's faith. This was not the same covenant that God made with Israel by means of Moses. Remember that after testing Abraham's faith, Jehovah gave a blessing to Abraham by means of a promise, in extension of the pronouncement made at Genesis 3:15, in which Jehovah said to the serpent in the Garden of Eden, "And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.” So the promise later given to Abraham showed that the seed of deliverance would appear on earth as a descendant of Abraham. Genesis 22:15-18. "And Jehovah’s angel proceeded to call to Abraham the second time out of the heavens and to say:“‘By myself I do swear,’ is the utterance of Jehovah,‘that by reason of the fact that you have done this thing and you have not withheld your son, your only one, I shall surely bless you and I shall surely multiply your seed like the stars of the heavens and like the grains of sand that are on the seashore; and your seed will take possession of the gate of his enemies. And by means of your seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my voice.’”
I'll stop there for now because we've covered quite a bit of material in reference to old and new covenant, although obviously far from complete. Because the Abrahamic covenant was involved with the Mosaic Covenant, which was also involved with the Messiah. I have enjoyed our conversation so far and will wait for your reply.
little lamb

Australia

#3611 Nov 18, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, very good. Me, too - I think in order to more fully understand this, though, we need to go back to the covenant God made with Abraham, in which he said he would bless the whole earth due to Abraham's faith. This was not the same covenant that God made with Israel by means of Moses. Remember that after testing Abraham's faith, Jehovah gave a blessing to Abraham by means of a promise, in extension of the pronouncement made at Genesis 3:15, in which Jehovah said to the serpent in the Garden of Eden, "And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.” So the promise later given to Abraham showed that the seed of deliverance would appear on earth as a descendant of Abraham. Genesis 22:15-18. "And Jehovah’s angel proceeded to call to Abraham the second time out of the heavens and to say:“‘By myself I do swear,’ is the utterance of Jehovah,‘that by reason of the fact that you have done this thing and you have not withheld your son, your only one, I shall surely bless you and I shall surely multiply your seed like the stars of the heavens and like the grains of sand that are on the seashore; and your seed will take possession of the gate of his enemies. And by means of your seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my voice.’”
I'll stop there for now because we've covered quite a bit of material in reference to old and new covenant, although obviously far from complete. Because the Abrahamic covenant was involved with the Mosaic Covenant, which was also involved with the Messiah. I have enjoyed our conversation so far and will wait for your reply.
I agree that Jehovah made a PROMISE to Abraham,

" by reason of the fact that you have done this thing and you have not withheld your son, your only one, I shall surely bless you and I shall surely multiply your seed like the stars of the heavens and like the grains of sand that are on the seashore; and your seed will take possession of the gate of his enemies. And by means of your seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless
themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my voice."

but I believe we can go back further where God told Satan because you have done this thing , he would put enmity between his seed and the womans 'seed'

He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel"

So right through scripture we see them bearing witness to the SEED..which SEED God tells us in

Galatians 3 [16]

" Now the promises were spoken to Abraham , and to his SEED , it does not say 'and to his "seeds" as in the case of MANY such but in the case of ONE , who is Christ."

So the seed is identified in Galatians as Jesus Christ..do you agree with this?

" and by means of your SEED all the nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves"

so by means of Jesus Christ all the nations will bless themselves..do you believe this?

And Galatians goes further 3 [7] Surely you know that those who ADHERE TO FAITH are sons of Abraham"

[9] Consequently those who ADHERE TO FAITH are being blessed WITH ABRAHAM"

Do you believe this blessing is for us who ADHERE TO FAITH? we are being blessed with Abraham..

Are we still agreeing??

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#3612 Nov 18, 2012
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree that Jehovah made a PROMISE to Abraham,
" by reason of the fact that you have done this thing and you have not withheld your son, your only one, I shall surely bless you and I shall surely multiply your seed like the stars of the heavens and like the grains of sand that are on the seashore; and your seed will take possession of the gate of his enemies. And by means of your seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless
themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my voice."
but I believe we can go back further where God told Satan because you have done this thing , he would put enmity between his seed and the womans 'seed'
He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel"
So right through scripture we see them bearing witness to the SEED..which SEED God tells us in
Galatians 3 [16]
" Now the promises were spoken to Abraham , and to his SEED , it does not say 'and to his "seeds" as in the case of MANY such but in the case of ONE , who is Christ."
So the seed is identified in Galatians as Jesus Christ..do you agree with this?
" and by means of your SEED all the nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves"
so by means of Jesus Christ all the nations will bless themselves..do you believe this?
And Galatians goes further 3 [7] Surely you know that those who ADHERE TO FAITH are sons of Abraham"
[9] Consequently those who ADHERE TO FAITH are being blessed WITH ABRAHAM"
Do you believe this blessing is for us who ADHERE TO FAITH? we are being blessed with Abraham..
Are we still agreeing??
I think so, but I will go over your post more closely tomorrow -- it's getting late here, and my eyelids are closing.:-) I'll be busy a lot during the day, but I look forward to continuing our discussion with God's help.
little lamb

Australia

#3613 Nov 19, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
I think so, but I will go over your post more closely tomorrow -- it's getting late here, and my eyelids are closing.:-) I'll be busy a lot during the day, but I look forward to continuing our discussion with God's help.
Its interesting you have stated " You think so" about believing the scriptures in Galatians 3.

I don't have any hesitation I believe them.

So its interesting and I look forward to you comment...and hope you can be more definite about your believing Gods word.

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