The false trinity doctrine.

Since: Jan 12

United States

#3522 Nov 13, 2012
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
No dee be honest... men have been using the trinity doctrine not to encourage belief in the unity of Jesus and the spirit of God..but to teach equality , which Jesus as the son, has never made himself equal with the Father..he was accused of it by the Jews but he never did.
1 Cor 11..The head of every woman is the man, the head of the man is Christ and the head of CHRIST IS GOD.
Corinthians was written after the death and resurrection of Christ , and states quite plainly in every translation I have ever read " The HEAD of CHRIST is GOD."
Jesus submits to the headship of God his Father.
hey dee, ever notice that little lamb always resorts to a straw man when she runs out of gas?
one thing i noticed about anti-trinitarians, they have a haughty attitude about them.

no matter how many time we define the position of the holy spirit and the word, anti trinitarians always resort back to the straw man that we are claiming jesus is in the father position.
see, they are still lying and doing tricky talk to maintain their theology, just like the jw gov body.

they feel it puts them in a higher righteous category, yet the opposite is true..... they can't identify their own lying haughty attitude.

Since: Jan 12

United States

#3523 Nov 13, 2012
Dave47 wrote:
<quoted text>
. For me the Holy Spirit guides me by &#8220;Making sure of all things&#8221; &#8211; that means study, research, reasoning and logic so that I can be sure of what I believe.
Anyway,
All the Best
Dave
evidently there is a flaw in your reseach somewhere dave, cause you are still involved in the jw cult that promotes the FAKE COMING OF JESUS...... tisk tisk, all the best.
hope you figure it out.

“By grace you have been saved”

Since: May 09

Sudbury, UK

#3524 Nov 13, 2012
little lamb wrote:
I believe " all scripture " is inspired of God Stanley
Do you believe all 'translations' are inspired of God little lamb?

A simple 'Yes' or 'No' would be cooperative, helpful and honest.

“By grace you have been saved”

Since: May 09

Sudbury, UK

#3525 Nov 13, 2012
Veritas 69 wrote:
Do you mean that every single person of the corporate have the same juridical mandatory and can act as single individuals on behalf of the coporate body itself... in your eample opposite in our Company...?
You introduced the comparison, not me. I am simply pointing out that where I live there is a legal entity known as a corporate body which is treated as a person in law. In that sense, the persons who make up the corporate body are, as you say, multiple persons in one person.
Veritas 69 wrote:
When Jesus said that those who have seen him has seen the Father... what do you believe he meant by this statement...?
I believe He meant what He said.

“He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say,‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves." -- John 14:7-11
Veritas 69 wrote:
Do you believe that Jesus was comparring his human body with His Father as a spirit... even taken in consideration that humans are created in "their" image... If not pls. explain what he meant...?
[QUOTE]
No. He meant "I am in the Father and the Father in Me."
[QUOTE who="Veritas 69"]
Furthermore when Jesus he stated that the Father and he was one, do you really believe that Jesus, as a human and with a humans body was one with his heavenly Father as a spirit...?
[QUOTE]
I take what Jesus says at face value. I do not attempt to argue with Him. I believe that the Father is in Jesus, and Jesus is in the Father. I believe that there is a unique divine spiritual union between Father and Son in a very real sense in that they are inextricably united and intertwined with each other. But they are not one single consciousness. They each have their own consciousness, but can instantly communicate with each other at will.
[QUOTE who="Veritas 69"]
Or was it a question of being one, equals in thoughts and mind, with the same goals, since Jesus was doing his Fathers will to 100 per cent...?
[QUOTE]
What Jesus described would include what you have described.
[QUOTE who="Veritas 69"]
Who was in heaven when Jesus was among us, God and the Holy Spirit... or has God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, all of the trinity left heaven and walked around us on earth...?
[QUOTE]
Jesus, as regards his human nature, was confined to earth from conception to death. The Father and the Holy Spirit had no such constraints and, as always, had the freedom of the universe and beyond.
[QUOTE who="Veritas 69"]
Do yo really believe that your reading of and interpretation of the Scriptures, which you have based your belief at and posted here, are correct...?
I believe what the Bible says. I do not subscribe to the Watchtower approach of "I know what the Bible says, but what it really means is....." and then attempt to explain it away as something totally different.

I have explained what I believe. What I know for certain is partial and incomplete, so I am not dogmatic. I am open to correction. One day I will know everything completely.

"Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely." -- 1 Corinthians 13:12

“By grace you have been saved”

Since: May 09

Sudbury, UK

#3526 Nov 13, 2012
Let me try that again
Veritas 69 wrote:
Do you mean that every single person of the corporate have the same juridical mandatory and can act as single individuals on behalf of the coporate body itself... in your eample opposite in our Company...?
You introduced the comparison, not me. I am simply pointing out that where I live there is a legal entity known as a corporate body which is treated as a person in law. In that sense, the persons who make up the corporate body are, as you say, multiple persons in one person.
Veritas 69 wrote:
When Jesus said that those who have seen him has seen the Father... what do you believe he meant by this statement...?
I believe He meant what He said.

“He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say,‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves." -- John 14:7-11
Veritas 69 wrote:
Do you believe that Jesus was comparring his human body with His Father as a spirit... even taken in consideration that humans are created in "their" image... If not pls. explain what he meant...?
No. He meant "I am in the Father and the Father in Me."
Veritas 69 wrote:
Furthermore when Jesus he stated that the Father and he was one, do you really believe that Jesus, as a human and with a humans body was one with his heavenly Father as a spirit...?
I take what Jesus says at face value. I do not attempt to argue with Him. I believe that the Father is in Jesus, and Jesus is in the Father. I believe that there is a unique divine spiritual union between Father and Son in a very real sense in that they are inextricably united and intertwined with each other. But they are not one single consciousness. They each have their own consciousness, but can instantly communicate with each other at will.
Veritas 69 wrote:
Or was it a question of being one, equals in thoughts and mind, with the same goals, since Jesus was doing his Fathers will to 100 per cent...?
What Jesus described would include what you have described.
Veritas 69 wrote:
Who was in heaven when Jesus was among us, God and the Holy Spirit... or has God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, all of the trinity left heaven and walked around us on earth...?
Jesus, as regards his human nature, was confined to earth from conception to death. The Father and the Holy Spirit had no such constraints and, as always, had the freedom of the universe and beyond.
Veritas 69 wrote:

Do yo really believe that your reading of and interpretation of the Scriptures, which you have based your belief at and posted here, are correct...?
I believe what the Bible says. I do not subscribe to the Watchtower approach of "I know what the Bible says, but what it really means is....." and then attempt to explain it away as something totally different.

I have explained what I believe. What I know for certain is partial and incomplete, so I am not dogmatic. I am open to correction. One day I will know everything completely.

"Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely." -- 1 Corinthians 13:12
little lamb

Mentone, Australia

#3527 Nov 14, 2012
Dave47 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Little Lamb
My comments:
You said:
“A man who is not of God, does not have the Holy Spirit, which is the key to unlocking the word of God and making Gods word known to us..seeing it was under inspiration of the Holy Spirit that men first wrote the words for us.
God knows what he is doing in allowing the different translations of his own word..He catches the wise in their own traps...The answer is in doing of his will, not how clever we think we are in arguing about translations and translators.
our understanding grows as we walk in the light, he will see to it that we get the information we need”
The argument that I gather from the above is: That where one has the Holy Spirit guiding them they will be able to discern the inspired word from the correct Bible Translation. I cannot disagree with the basic statement, however, I find that there are persons of good will from both sides of the Theology debate who both state the Holy Spirit is guiding them -- are they both correct?
The differences between the KJV and the NWT, NASB, NIV and other modern Bible Translations are considerable. The question I have is: Which one is right? The only way I can discover that is through study, reasoning, logic and researching the history, whereas your position appears to be that the Holy Spirit will guide you as to what is correct. For me the Holy Spirit guides me by “Making sure of all things”– that means study, research, reasoning and logic so that I can be sure of what I believe.
Anyway,
All the Best
Dave
Yes I believe that Holy Spirit is given to all who repent and are baptized into Christ..and I believe that we all have to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

I have found that its some people on both sides of the argument that have made the doctrine of the trinity, they measuring line for a Christian..but I believe the fruitage of the spirit is what should define a Christian..

Its very hard to love someone who disagrees with you but its a worthwhile challenge if you can overcome your feelings...and I suspect like yourself that its men of good-will that are the over comers.

I believe God is less concerned with who is right then who loves.

As a Christian you can be right whilst your manner and execution can be wrong..
little lamb

Mentone, Australia

#3528 Nov 14, 2012
Stanley Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you believe all 'translations' are inspired of God little lamb?
A simple 'Yes' or 'No' would be cooperative, helpful and honest.
All scripture is inspired of God...

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#3529 Nov 14, 2012
Stanley Walker wrote:
Let me try that again
<quoted text>
You introduced the comparison, not me. I am simply pointing out that where I live there is a legal entity known as a corporate body which is treated as a person in law. In that sense, the persons who make up the corporate body are, as you say, multiple persons in one person.
<quoted text>
I believe He meant what He said.
“He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say,‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves." -- John 14:7-11
<quoted text>
No. He meant "I am in the Father and the Father in Me."
<quoted text>
I take what Jesus says at face value. I do not attempt to argue with Him. I believe that the Father is in Jesus, and Jesus is in the Father. I believe that there is a unique divine spiritual union between Father and Son in a very real sense in that they are inextricably united and intertwined with each other. But they are not one single consciousness. They each have their own consciousness, but can instantly communicate with each other at will.
<quoted text>
What Jesus described would include what you have described.
<quoted text>
Jesus, as regards his human nature, was confined to earth from conception to death. The Father and the Holy Spirit had no such constraints and, as always, had the freedom of the universe and beyond.
<quoted text>
I believe what the Bible says. I do not subscribe to the Watchtower approach of "I know what the Bible says, but what it really means is....." and then attempt to explain it away as something totally different.
I have explained what I believe. What I know for certain is partial and incomplete, so I am not dogmatic. I am open to correction. One day I will know everything completely.
"Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely." -- 1 Corinthians 13:12
Maybe it was not the best comparrison i maked, but it gave an ide that and even it was a corporate as you turned it to, the different persons was indviduals and not the corporate itself and have no juridical mandatory on behalf of the coporate, wherefore the individuals was not like and couldn't do anything by themselves, unless it has been approved by the corporate, like Jesus from His Father...

And as I said, I have God and Jesus Christ in my heart,which doesn't mean that Im a part of a trinity or multiple gods in one...?

The Scriptures states that there are many lords and gods but only one God and one Lord...

Do you believe that the gods and lords also are some kind of gods and lords in one, a binity or trinity even Jesus is a god but not God...?

Do you always take Jesus Words litterally, even when he speaks in parables...?

I will be gratefull if you would comment my different questions... from prevous postings and latest, one to one in question of how you will describe with yuor own words what Jesus meant...

Thanks in advance...

“The Truth Shall Make You Free”

Since: Jan 10

Boston, MA

#3530 Nov 14, 2012
Veritas 69 wrote:
The Scriptures states that there are many lords and gods but only one God and one Lord...
How many Gods do you believe exist?
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#3531 Nov 14, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>
All authority is not equal authority with someone else.
Really...then what does ALL mean?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#3532 Nov 14, 2012
red blood relative wrote:
<quoted text>
evidently there is a flaw in your reseach somewhere dave, cause you are still involved in the jw cult that promotes the FAKE COMING OF JESUS...... tisk tisk, all the best.
hope you figure it out.
HI Red Blood Relative

I see your reading skills are not improving. I am not a JW but I do agree with their position on the trinity. One thing I do diligently: Is examine different positions, and then weigh and balance the arguments – Try it sometime!

You must have been in a hurry as I see you don’t have one of your signature comments about the Holy Spirit “moving to and fro over the earth”. To help you out --- here is the Bible Translation for Genesis 1:1,2 from the Catholic Bishops web site: http://www.usccb.org/bible/genesis/1

“In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth-a—2* and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—b

Notes:
A- mighty wind: literally,“spirit or breath [ruah] of God”; cf. Gn 8:1.

Genesis 8:1
“God remembered Noah and all the animals, wild and tame, that were with him in the ark. So God made a wind sweep over the earth, and the waters began to subside.”

It looks like I am not alone in using “wind or breath” as an interpretation at Genesis 1:2(Oops—Sorry -- I am not” I am”. LOL).

Scientists tell us that the Earth was formed violently; but they only confirm what the Bible has already told us! God used his Mighty Power(Spirit)! Bible writers describe that “Power” in terms that we all understand – the power of "Wind" – ask anyone who has endured a Hurricane, Tornado or Typhoon or any huge storm such as “Sandy’ and they will attest to that Power.

All the Best

Dave

“By grace you have been saved”

Since: May 09

Fenwick, UK

#3533 Nov 14, 2012
Veritas 69 wrote:
Do you always take Jesus Words litterally, even when he speaks in parables...?
And there was me hoping for a reasonable discussion.

“By grace you have been saved”

Since: May 09

Fenwick, UK

#3534 Nov 14, 2012
little lamb wrote:
All scripture is inspired of God
Stanley Walker wrote:
Do you believe all 'translations' are inspired of God little lamb?
little lamb wrote:
All scripture is inspired of God
Stanley Walker wrote:
Do you believe all 'translations' are inspired of God little lamb?
A simple 'Yes' or 'No' would be cooperative, helpful and honest.
little lamb wrote:
All scripture is inspired of God
And there was me hoping for a reasonable discussion.

“By grace you have been saved”

Since: May 09

Fenwick, UK

#3535 Nov 14, 2012
Veritas 69 wrote:
I will be gratefull if you would comment my different questions... from prevous postings and latest
OK. Lets try just once more.

You present one question at a time, without scorn, cynicism or sarcasm, and I will respectfully answer you fully one question at a time.

"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect." -- 1 Peter 3:15

"Charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is unprofitable but leads to the subversion of the faith of the hearers." -- 2 Timothy 2:14

“Close enough”

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#3536 Nov 14, 2012
dee lightful wrote:
<quoted text> Really...then what does ALL mean?
Jesus said "all" authority has been given him. That means that Jesus has all authority given him. All means all. Jesus has ALL authority. He said all authority was given him. It implies that before he was given "all" authority, he did not have it. All means all. Jesus was given ALL authority. given. all authority. If you think that means sharing ALL authority between the three of them, hey, go for it.
little lamb

Mentone, Australia

#3537 Nov 14, 2012
Stanley Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
And there was me hoping for a reasonable discussion.
There is no discussion ..Gods word stands and we stand on the word

"all scripture is inspired of God"

Its only Satan who wants people to DOUBT Gods word.

The sower went to sow his seed...and the seed is the word of God.

If you are not sowing with Christ your like Satan trying to take it away from human hearts.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#3538 Nov 14, 2012
Stanley Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
And there was me hoping for a reasonable discussion.
Is it only the dicussion which is important for you, not the possibility to understand and explain the principles of the Scriptures...?

Why don't you tell us with your own words... instead of pastings and legalistic readings of the Scriptures... without the spirit...?

It would be possivite if you would explain against us how you have come to your beliefs that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy spirit.. is a Trinity a God in one... instead of just reading words 1:1...

The Governing Bodys of the Watchtower Society have not come up with their own definitsion of God, His son Jesus and the Holy Spirit... Arianism and the Trinity doctrines was established long time before their man made organisation saw the daylight...

E.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianis...
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#3539 Nov 14, 2012
miseracord wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus said "all" authority has been given him. That means that Jesus has all authority given him. All means all. Jesus has ALL authority. He said all authority was given him. It implies that before he was given "all" authority, he did not have it. All means all. Jesus was given ALL authority. given. all authority. If you think that means sharing ALL authority between the three of them, hey, go for it.
Glad to see you know what all means and now out the other side of your mouth you are saying I think he shares that authority with others? I never said any such thing so
LURKERS and BIBLE STUDIES can see you putting words in my mouth that I never said ,making you look very dishonest.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#3540 Nov 14, 2012
Stanley Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
OK. Lets try just once more.
You present one question at a time, without scorn, cynicism or sarcasm, and I will respectfully answer you fully one question at a time.
"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect." -- 1 Peter 3:15
"Charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is unprofitable but leads to the subversion of the faith of the hearers." -- 2 Timothy 2:14
Fair enough Stanley walker...

Im sorry, your last post was not present when i maked mine...

Does John 8:42,43 and the principles hereof gives you an idea of. that we might make wrong conclusions...?

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Since: Jan 12

United States

#3541 Nov 14, 2012
oh my god dear jesus please help me...
...ummmmm, little lamb,... we were talking about spurious additions to the bible, that you were in charge of approving

which ones do you approve of?
can you make a list of them for the mormon leadership to check out and also us exjws?

i want to know what yu both come up with.

but anyway, besides that.... yo realize that the word spoke light into existance while the holy spirit was circling in a big circle around the nucleous, wait, i mean the earth?.... going to and fro above the earth, the watery deep, in a circle.

while the father was sitting on his powerful energy throne causing it
gen 1 1;-3.... with the cherubs circling him in various forms like bulls

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